Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

raymondmanny

Is Tape Reading a Myth ?

Recommended Posts

Hi ,

 

I just bought the 3 Jigsaw sofwares en December 2012 and want to share my experience.

 

After 2 years of webinars and research to improve my setups by probing various indicators and

techniques (name it, I know it) I began Tape reading.

But tape reading with the DOM and the Time and sales (NinjaTrader) is not an easy task.

 

I developed a technique which seemed efficient on the Emini-ES , but only in the night

session. I used the NinjaTrader replay accelerated mode and had mostly winners ( 9 of 10)

The night session is very slow and I never tried to trade it live;

and in the day session I couldn’t follow, the game was to fast….

 

One day I investigated Jigsaw Trading and I immediately saw that this 3 softwares were unique and would allow me to follow and anticipate the day session movements in the short term.

I viewed some No BS trading free videos, observed my 3 softwares in action and began to understand something.

I am a Beginner and I mostly win my one tick on the SIM (live) trade ( Emini -ZB ).

 

I bought the software the 19 of December 2012 and I am very pleased to see that it is really possible to anticipate the order flow in the very short term. But that is enough to make a few ticks.

 

So I am going to improve my technique and when the time comes I shall trade live…

 

I am not a seller but an enthusiastic Trader

 

Have a nice day,

Raymond Manny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I use market orders when the move seems very strong and limit orders in the other cases.

 

I would be very interested to know how NinjaTrader fills limit orders on the SIM.

It is my broker's real time SIM and not NinjaTrader's SIM.

 

Thank you,

 

Raymond Manny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi,

 

I use market orders when the move seems very strong and limit orders in the other cases.

 

I would be very interested to know how NinjaTrader fills limit orders on the SIM.

It is my broker's real time SIM and not NinjaTrader's SIM.

 

Thank you,

 

Raymond Manny.

 

Hi Raymond,

 

If you use market orders you pay the spread each time, and any sim will show this, so your results should be fairly accurate provided the market is liquid. If the market is illiquid then the sim will struggle to show where you would have been filled. Try trading the futures contract J7 with a volume subpane to get a feel for what I mean - your sim will fill you at prices where only a single contract (someone else's, not yours!) traded. In reality you'd have suffered massive slippage.

 

The ES is sufficiently liquid, even outside of RTH, that I doubt this will be an issue.

 

If you use limit orders the sim will do one of the following, depending on how you have set it up:

 

1. Fills when price trades at the limit

2. Fill when price trades through the limit

3. Fills when a certain volume of orders have traded at the limit

 

Which of these is good? None of them. The first two are those typically used; the first will give you a far better performance than you'd actually get, while the second will give you a significantly worse (by an amount that will suprise you) result than you'd actually achieve.

 

Most platforms default to the first, as it gives you the illusion that you can trade better than you can, which means you'll make more for your broker when you move from sim to live trading. I know that the Infinity Futures / TransACT platform definitely defaults to the second approach. I am sure NinjaTrader support will be able to tell advise you regarding their platform.

 

To get an accurate representation of what would happen in real trading you need:

 

1. A method of estimating your position in the queue of limit orders resting on the exchanges books.

 

2. An automated method of executing orders in sim according to this estimation (this does not mean that your strategy needs to be automated - you can still trade on a discretionary basis - the automation will just control what happens after you've placed your order).

 

The first of these is not easy to arrive at.

 

BlueHorseshoe

BlueHorseshoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I noticed that when I traded SIM with limit orders that I wasn’t necessarily filled when the price met the limit, nor at the second nor necessarily at the third. Sometimes I wasn’t filled at all and I cancelled the order. In that case a market order would have been necessary to not miss the trade.

But that is not a problem.

I used this technique live with the help of my indicators before tape reading. It worked well but when you have 3 winners and one loser you are even. So you work very hard for your broker’s pockets…

But reading the tape gives me better entries and I shall learn to use that skill for my exits also.

I am not in a hurry to lose my money so I observe and go on improving.

 

Thank you for your knowledge, are you a programmer ?

 

Have a nice day,

 

Raymond Manny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi,

 

I noticed that when I traded SIM with limit orders that I wasn’t necessarily filled when the price met the limit, nor at the second nor necessarily at the third. Sometimes I wasn’t filled at all and I cancelled the order. In that case a market order would have been necessary to not miss the trade.

But that is not a problem.

I used this technique live with the help of my indicators before tape reading. It worked well but when you have 3 winners and one loser you are even. So you work very hard for your broker’s pockets…

But reading the tape gives me better entries and I shall learn to use that skill for my exits also.

I am not in a hurry to lose my money so I observe and go on improving.

 

Thank you for your knowledge, are you a programmer ?

 

Have a nice day,

 

Raymond Manny.

 

Hi Raymond,

 

I can program to an reasonable standard, but I doubt that I would term myself a programmer. In terms of the challenges identfied in my post, in fact, the answer was not to try and program my way out of them (though I have absolutely no doubt that this is possible for those, as SIUYA puts it, "with more PhDs than assholes"), but to elevate myself above them by trading in higher timeframes. If you're gunning for an average profit per trade of $500 then you can afford to pay the market price and, should you lose money, be sure that it has nothing to do with unfilled orders and everything to do with you trading approach.

 

What I would say, if it's working for you 'on the ground' so to speak, is to continue but have a clear plan for what you will do if you run into difficulties.

 

Best of luck!

 

BlueHorseshoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sad thing is that most people will look at that video and think 'oh that seems hard' or 'that style isn't for me'..... that's pure naivety through and through. If you're going to day trade, using the order flow on the DOM is the only way to trade if you're planning on trading for a living. If you go down on the floor of the various exchanges, you'll see all the locals trading like that. If you go onto the trading floor of any half decent prop firm, it's pretty much how everyone trades. All you see is a sea of DOM'S. If you don't accept that as a day trader you might as well quit and save yourself a lot of money and pain.

 

When I see threads like 'Is Anyone Make Money From Day Trading' - The answer is, if you're retail who's hell bent thinking they can apply technical analysis to day trading then no, you're not making a penny, or haven't made any consistent money for a few years. If you're going to go down the the road of applying technical analysis to day trading then you're literally just going to be handing all your money to the professionals and those who understand day trading is about the DOM. Ignore this advice at your own risk.

 

Here are some pictures of trading floors just from google image, you'll see DOM'S are what traders are starring at for their trades....

 

Big screens with the doms up at the CME exchange

?m=02&d=20080724&t=2&i=5302690&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2008-07-24T154249Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_0_BUSINESSPROIND-CFTC-OIL-DC

 

?m=02&d=20110315&t=2&i=363007928&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2011-03-15T093005Z_01_BTRE72E0QE700_RTROPTP_0_MARKETS-STOCKS

 

ostc-poland-warsaw-office-trading-floor.jpg

 

F1.large.jpg

 

 

partner.jpg&h=280&w=610&zc=1

 

Traders4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Raymon,

 

Your limit orders were not filled on SIM due to your entry price not having been penetrated. While this is not always true in LIVE trading, it is true in SIM if your platform setup looks for price penetration before a fill. Price touch will not work but penetration by at least one tick is required.

 

COTtrader "Ken"

 

Hi,

 

I noticed that when I traded SIM with limit orders that I wasn’t necessarily filled when the price met the limit, nor at the second nor necessarily at the third. Sometimes I wasn’t filled at all and I cancelled the order. In that case a market order would have been necessary to not miss the trade.

But that is not a problem.

I used this technique live with the help of my indicators before tape reading. It worked well but when you have 3 winners and one loser you are even. So you work very hard for your broker’s pockets…

But reading the tape gives me better entries and I shall learn to use that skill for my exits also.

I am not in a hurry to lose my money so I observe and go on improving.

 

Thank you for your knowledge, are you a programmer ?

 

Have a nice day,

 

Raymond Manny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I make money daily trading technical. Here is February 6 - premarket and open.

 

4 wins and 1 loss. Draw down is nearly non-existent. Stop loss is 4 ticks max.

 

These are not scalp trades but solid winners!

 

COTtrader

 

The sad thing is that most people will look at that video and think 'oh that seems hard' or 'that style isn't for me'..... that's pure naivety through and through. If you're going to day trade, using the order flow on the DOM is the only way to trade if you're planning on trading for a living. If you go down on the floor of the various exchanges, you'll see all the locals trading like that. If you go onto the trading floor of any half decent prop firm, it's pretty much how everyone trades. All you see is a sea of DOM'S. If you don't accept that as a day trader you might as well quit and save yourself a lot of money and pain.

 

When I see threads like 'Is Anyone Make Money From Day Trading' - The answer is, if you're retail who's hell bent thinking they can apply technical analysis to day trading then no, you're not making a penny, or haven't made any consistent money for a few years. If you're going to go down the the road of applying technical analysis to day trading then you're literally just going to be handing all your money to the professionals and those who understand day trading is about the DOM. Ignore this advice at your own risk.

 

Here are some pictures of trading floors just from google image, you'll see DOM'S are what traders are starring at for their trades....

 

Big screens with the doms up at the CME exchange

?m=02&d=20080724&t=2&i=5302690&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2008-07-24T154249Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_0_BUSINESSPROIND-CFTC-OIL-DC

 

?m=02&d=20110315&t=2&i=363007928&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2011-03-15T093005Z_01_BTRE72E0QE700_RTROPTP_0_MARKETS-STOCKS

 

ostc-poland-warsaw-office-trading-floor.jpg

 

F1.large.jpg

 

 

partner.jpg&h=280&w=610&zc=1

 

Traders4.jpg

ES_Wins.thumb.png.f3a98e44c591d5ab3332366f850d27eb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • NFLX Netflix stock watch, local support and resistance areas at 838.12 and 880.5 at https://stockconsultant.com/?NFLX
    • Date: 8th April 2025.   Markets Rebound Cautiously as US-China Tariff Tensions Deepen     Global markets staged a tentative recovery on Tuesday following a wave of volatility sparked by escalating trade tensions between the United States and China. The Asia-Pacific region showed signs of stability after a chaotic start to the week—though some pockets remained under pressure. Taiwan’s Taiex dropped 4.4%, dragged lower by losses in tech heavyweight TSMC. The world’s largest chipmaker fell another 4% on Tuesday and has now slumped 13.5% since April 2, when US President Donald Trump first unveiled what he called ‘Liberation Day’ tariffs.   However, broader sentiment across the region turned more positive, with several markets rebounding sharply after Monday’s dramatic sell-offs. Japan’s Nikkei 225 surged over 6% in early trading, rebounding from an 18-month low. South Korea’s Kospi rose marginally, and Australia’s ASX 200 gained 1.9%, driven by strength in mining stocks. Hong Kong’s Hang Seng rose 1.6%, though still far from recovering from Monday’s 13.2% crash—its worst day since the 1997 Asian financial crisis. China’s Shanghai Composite added 0.9%.   In Europe, DAX and FTSE 100 are up more than 1% in opening trade. EU Commission President von der Leyen repeated yesterday that the EU had offered reciprocal zero tariffs on manufactured goods previously and continues to stand by that offer. Others are also trying again to talk to Trump to get some sort of agreement that limits the impact.   Much of the rally appeared to be driven by dip-buying, as well as hopes that the intensifying trade war could still be defused through negotiations.   China Strikes Back: ‘We Will Fight to the End’   Tensions reached a boiling point after Trump threatened to impose an additional 50% tariff on all Chinese imports unless Beijing rolled back its retaliatory measures by April 8. ‘If China does not withdraw its 34% increase above their already long-term trading abuses by tomorrow... the United States will impose additional tariffs on China of 50%,’ Trump declared on social media.   If implemented, the new tariffs would bring total US duties on Chinese goods to a staggering 124%, factoring in the existing 20%, the 34% recently announced, and the proposed 50%.   In response, China’s Ministry of Commerce issued a stern warning, stating: ‘The US threat to escalate tariffs is a mistake on top of a mistake... If the US insists on its own way, China will fight to the end.’ The ministry also called for equal and respectful dialogue, though signs of compromise on either side remain scarce.   Beijing acted quickly to contain a market fallout. State funds intervened to support equities, and the People’s Bank of China set the yuan fixing at its weakest level since September 2023 to boost export competitiveness. Additionally, five-year interest rate swaps in China fell to their lowest levels since 2020, indicating potential for further monetary easing.   Trump Talks Tough on EU Too   Trump’s hardline approach extended beyond China. Speaking at a press conference, he rejected the European Union’s offer to eliminate tariffs on cars and industrial goods, accusing the bloc of ‘being very bad to us.’ He insisted that Europe would need to source its energy from the US, claiming the US could ‘knock off $350 billion in one week.’   The EU, meanwhile, backed away from a proposed 50% retaliatory tariff on American whiskey, opting instead for 25% duties on selected US goods in response to Trump’s steel and aluminium tariffs.     Volatile Wall Street Adds to the Drama   Wall Street experienced wild swings on Monday as investors processed the rapidly evolving trade conflict. The S&P 500 briefly fell 4.7% before rebounding 3.4%, nearly erasing its losses in what could have been its biggest one-day jump in years—if it had held. The Dow Jones Industrial Average sank by as much as 1,700 points early in the day but later climbed nearly 900 points before closing 349 points lower, down 0.9%. The Nasdaq ended up 0.1%.   The brief rally was fueled by a false rumour that Trump was considering a 90-day pause on tariffs—rumours that the White House quickly labelled ‘fake news.’ The market's sharp reaction underscored how desperate investors are for any sign that tensions might ease.   Oil Markets in Focus: Goldman Sachs Revises Forecasts   Crude prices also reflected the uncertainty, with US crude briefly dipping below $60 per barrel for the first time since 2021. As of early Tuesday, Brent crude was trading at $64.72, while WTI hovered around $61.26.   Goldman Sachs, in a note dated April 7, lowered its average price forecasts for Brent and WTI through 2025 and 2026, citing mounting recession risks and the potential for higher-than-expected supply from OPEC+.       Under a base-case scenario where the US avoids a recession and tariffs are reduced significantly before the April 9 implementation date, Goldman sees Brent at $62 per barrel and WTI at $58 by December 2025. These figures fall further to $55 and $51, respectively, by the end of 2026. This outlook also assumes moderate output increases from eight OPEC+ countries, with incremental boosts of 130,000–140,000 barrels per day in June and July.   However, should the US slip into a typical recession and OPEC production aligns with the bank’s baseline assumptions, Brent could retreat to $58 by the end of this year and to $50 by December 2026.   In a more bearish scenario involving a global GDP slowdown and no change to OPEC+ output levels, Brent prices might fall to $54 by year-end and $45 by late 2026. The most extreme projection—based on a simultaneous economic downturn and a full reversal of OPEC+ production cuts—would see Brent plunge to below $40 per barrel by the end of 2026.   Goldman noted that oil prices could outperform forecasts significantly if there was a dramatic shift in tariff policy and a surprise in global demand recovery.   Cautious Optimism, But Warnings Persist   With both Washington and Beijing showing no signs of backing down, markets are likely to remain volatile in the days ahead. Investors now turn their attention to upcoming trade meetings and policy decisions, hoping for clarity in what has become one of the most unpredictable trading environments in recent years.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.