Who Makes More Money?

[arvo 10]

  Ammeo said:

Not necessarily ,the more you trade the more are the chances that'll u'll make losing trades ..my personal psychology is to trade less but trade only when u are sure abt it....scalping is just a miss or hit game

 

It seems a clearer definition of scalping would be in order - why should it be called a hit or miss game and why isn't swing trading the same kind of game then? Imho, any kind of trading on any timeframe without a sound strategy, disciplined execution and evaluation is a hit or miss game. Price action is the same on all TFs. The choice of a trader's preferred time frame is a matter of personality and psychology - ability to tolerate risk over time, time needed to fully recover between periods of risk, intuitive ability, swiftness of decision making, etc.

 

As for the definition, I suppose we would agree that scalping, technically, is a breakout or pullback reversal strategy going for a high probability one directional move without major pullbacks (a single leg) - as opposed to swing trading where the holding time is longer and the trade endures through pullbacks in exchange for the probability of one to three extra legs within a swing. If we define it as such, then, technically, scalping is possible on any TF - from 70 ticks to daily to weekly charts - the setups for scalping look the same on all TFs, it only takes a different period of time to play out and reach the target or stop on different charts.

 

So, scalping, if we do not become attached to the superficial and erroeous notion that it is some reckless button pushing akin to playing the slot machine, is not limited to a particular timeframe - it is a type of strategy (or set of strategies), executed by the trader, vis a vis price behaviour. When people realize this, they are inevitably drawn to lower timeframes, because they understand that lower time frames give them the same kind of risk-reward play within minutes to hours compared to several days on higher TFs, so the potential for profit is considerably higher.

 

Hence, it is not correct to berate intraday "scalping" as such or look upon it as gambling, just because some people manage to apply the same breakout/pullback reversal strategy on lower timeframes better than others (i.e. push bottons more frequently, though still deliberately and for exactly the same reasons). Imho, in the presence of a sound strategy, your time rhythm is the key to success - how long you can bear the pain of uncertainty/loss before losing your head, and how long it takes to fully recover from a loss or climb down from the highs of a win. And I'd say trade the lowest TF that you your personality permits (the necessary condition being total focus and composure before every trade). And if you can trade a one-directional move strategy consistently profitably on 15 or 5 min TF, you can proudly call yourself an intraday "scalper". But the pride should come not from being a "scalper" (no-pullbacks trader), but from being able to play the same game faster than the "scalpers" on the 1H or daily charts do. Comparing it to sports, you will have advanced to a higher league of ability (hit a faster moving ball with the same amount of control and precision).

[Ammeo 10]

  arvo said:

Hence, it is not correct to berate intraday "scalping" as such or look upon it as gambling, just because some people manage to apply the same breakout/pullback reversal strategy on lower timeframes better than others (i.e. push bottons more frequently, though still deliberately and for exactly the same reasons).

 

Im am not berating Scalping. I know scalping exists and there are many day trading who do it successfully time after time .But saying that scalpers are more smart is not agreeable (as the other poster said) . There is not a single scalper who is there on the Forbes list .They were all long term traders/investors/fund owners and they used to invest only after getting reliable information about their desired assets.

My personal choice would be to do 10 trades a month and win 8 of them rather than having 120 trades a month and winning 70 of them........

[bj139 10]

Another vote for Warren Buffet.

 

Rolfe Winkler | Analysis & Opinion | Reuters.com

 

This is surely the most profitable way.

[arvo 10]

  Ammeo said:

There is not a single scalper who is there on the Forbes list .They were all long term traders/investors/fund owners and they used to invest only after getting reliable information about their desired assets.

 

On Forbes, we see billionaire investors who do not do technical trading (either swing or scalping) themselves – they don’t need to. But I bet the traders at their hedge funds do a lot of both, and the question remains open which strategy generates more cash for them . I doubt the investors we see on Forbes could be called “swing traders”. Does Warren Buffet really do trading himself? From the article quoted:

 

"Berkshire Hathaway, in which Buffett owns 27 percent, according to a recent proxy filing, has more than $26 billion invested in eight financial companies that have received bailout money. The TARP at one point had nearly $100 billion invested in these companies and, according to new data released by Thomson Reuters, FDIC backs more than $130 billion of their debt. To put that in perspective, 75 percent of the debt these companies have issued since late November has come with a federal guarantee. [...] Without FDIC’s debt guarantee program, even impregnable Goldman would have collapsed."

 

I suppose that goes well beyond the scope of swing trading. That's big money feeding on monopoly money at the source of issue. No individual trader piggy-backing on the big money's moves, whether for a swing or scalp, will ever catch up with those guys on the Forbes list. Even scalpers like Paul Rotter, who allegedly makes USD 60million a year from scalping, are small fry compared to them.

[edgararakelyan 10]

It seems traders make more money yet investors have more money to invest therefore make more, just a smaller percentage.

[Ammeo 10]

  bj139 said:

Another vote for Warren Buffet.

 

Rolfe Winkler | Analysis & Opinion | Reuters.com

 

This is surely the most profitable way.

 

To trade the Warren Buffet Way u need to have big money to invest which most of us dont have. But i will agree that Position trading is the least risky among others cause this is the only trading style which needs thorough research thus minimizing the risk.......

[Ammeo 10]

  arvo said:

On Forbes, we see billionaire investors who do not do technical trading (either swing or scalping) themselves – they don’t need to. But I bet the traders at their hedge funds do a lot of both, and the question remains open which strategy generates more cash for them . I doubt the investors we see on Forbes could be called “swing traders”. Does Warren Buffet really do trading himself? From the article quoted:

 

"Berkshire Hathaway, in which Buffett owns 27 percent, according to a recent proxy filing, has more than $26 billion invested in eight financial companies that have received bailout money. The TARP at one point had nearly $100 billion invested in these companies and, according to new data released by Thomson Reuters, FDIC backs more than $130 billion of their debt. To put that in perspective, 75 percent of the debt these companies have issued since late November has come with a federal guarantee. [...] Without FDIC’s debt guarantee program, even impregnable Goldman would have collapsed."

 

I suppose that goes well beyond the scope of swing trading. That's big money feeding on monopoly money at the source of issue. No individual trader piggy-backing on the big money's moves, whether for a swing or scalp, will ever catch up with those guys on the Forbes list. Even scalpers like Paul Rotter, who allegedly makes USD 60million a year from scalping, are small fry compared to them.

 

You are saying the same point as im doing ..to get to the rich list one has to get out of the retail world. Retail traders are never going to be on the rich list just like a retail shopkeeper never becomes a super rich stores tycoon owner....one has to get out of this retail bubble to get to the next level.....

[Vince50 10]

Excellent post. The ramifications of it I am first feeling now....after 15 yrs of trading. TRADING FOR MOST OF US WILL NEVER BE WORTH IT BECAUSE.....We can never do both...1-pay our bills from our winnings, and compound our money until our acct is big enough to make us rich.

 

I am a winning trader. I win consistantly. But waht good is making 50% a year which is better than Warren does if all of that and more goes for living expenses. Its a guarantee to go broke.

 

The guy who gets into trading as a hobby,with the goal to slowly learn, and the ultimate goal to add extra income to his nest egg,will likely be the one to become the next Buffett!

 

Are we all blind when we start trading? Why do we not do the math and ask ourselves...How will we ever have the size trading account we need if we cant even make enough to pay all our bills?

 

Unless we have a wife who works that dont mind paying the bills..............this is a movie that will usually have a very sad ending. Look at all the guys selling systems on the Internet that claimed to be floor traders with yrs of experience.

 

What happened to all of their money?

[edgararakelyan 10]

  Vince50 said:

Excellent post. The ramifications of it I am first feeling now....after 15 yrs of trading. TRADING FOR MOST OF US WILL NEVER BE WORTH IT BECAUSE.....We can never do both...1-pay our bills from our winnings, and compound our money until our acct is big enough to make us rich.

 

I am a winning trader. I win consistantly. But waht good is making 50% a year which is better than Warren does if all of that and more goes for living expenses. Its a guarantee to go broke.

 

The guy who gets into trading as a hobby,with the goal to slowly learn, and the ultimate goal to add extra income to his nest egg,will likely be the one to become the next Buffett!

 

Are we all blind when we start trading? Why do we not do the math and ask ourselves...How will we ever have the size trading account we need if we cant even make enough to pay all our bills?

 

Unless we have a wife who works that dont mind paying the bills..............this is a movie that will usually have a very sad ending. Look at all the guys selling systems on the Internet that claimed to be floor traders with yrs of experience.

 

What happened to all of their money?

 

I'm hoping to have a nicely sized account before I move out of my parent's house. If I could get at least 250,000 dollars that would be enough because with margin it would be half a million, and I know I can at least make 20% which would be more than enough to live on.

[sergso 10]

  MadMarketScientist said:

So what does everyone think? Do scalpers collect enough pennies throughout the day? Or do the swing traders make more compounding their position?

 

MMS

 

Very good scalper I heard make more money than very good swing traders but on the average the former group makes a lot less than the latter. Scalping was invented in the pits I think and now with HFT it is difficult to do it from home unless you collocate expensive hardware.

[arvo 10]

I am a winning trader. I win consistantly. But waht good is making 50% a year which is better than Warren does if all of that and more goes for living expenses. Its a guarantee to go broke.

 

Are we all blind when we start trading? Why do we not do the math and ask ourselves...How will we ever have the size trading account we need if we cant even make enough to pay all our bills?

 

That's exactly the point and math behind this question - all in favour of scalping, if you want to grow your account, that is. Swing trading is for those with serious accounts, like 200,000 USD at the very least. Then you can trade longer timeframes at your leisure risking no more than 0.5 pct of account per trade and make a living. If you make 30 pct a year, that's 60K, not a fortune but good enough to start with as a swing trader.

 

But if you start small, you've got to be scalping intraday, unless you can afford to spend a century to get rich. And for competent intraday scalpers a daily profit goal is easily 5 pct of account risking 1-2 pct of account per trade. Do the maths of compounding and you'll see the allure of scalping - there's virtually no limit to how fast you can build your account: start with 10K, make 2 pct of account per day on average risking 1 pct per trade and you'll have doubled your account in less than two months, and on and on.

 

One more circumstance in favour of scalping is that, like it or not, the market is range-bound most of the time - exactly the ideal conditions for scalping.

[SunTrader 10]

There is also no limit to how fast you can ........ blow your account.

 

Having winning trades is easy.

 

Holding and building an account, which can't be rushed, is the hard part.

[arvo 10]

  SunTrader said:

There is also no limit to how fast you can ........ blow your account.

 

Having winning trades is easy.

 

Holding and building an account, which can't be rushed, is the hard part.

 

Do you mean holding a trade or holding a growing account? I think most of us have trouble with the latter by becoming careless, not executing the strategy, feeling like we're now rich enough to experiment and risk more to get even richer, not following risk and money management rules etc., etc. But that's a matter of psychology and discipline, not of one strategy being better over the other.

 

Meanwhile, as far as strategy goes, I'd like to share this article: To scalp or swing trade? That is the question . My takeway from this article, coupled with the realization about the laws that govern price movement in the markets, is that part-scalping/part-swinging is the best strategy:

- first off, provided a strategy with an edge and disciplined execution is place, intraday trading will build the account much faster

- that's because in the lower timeframes you'll get many nice and quite broad channels and ranges with high probability setups and even good trends whereas all you see on the higher TF is unreliable congestion,

- the best strategy is mainly scalp and leave a smaller swing position on (set to break even) for a possible major breakout; if the breakout doesn't happen, you've gotten something out of the trade, no worries, take a rest, do new analysis and take it from there.

- as emphasized in the article, this approach is very motivating psychologically, because you get a scalp out of most of your trades, and if the major breakout does happen, you're already positioned for a good swing (and enter with new scalps along the way).

[ankita 10]

The trader who have proper market analytical skill and who knows to manage money and risk properly makes more money. If you do not possess this skills than you have to select appropriate broker to do that work for you. I have been trading since 3 years and I have earned a lot through my Broker.

[Abul kalam 0]

According to me I think , You can earn money from various sources , but In Forex you have to pass a long time with great patience if you want to earn mney from here, and you have to ensure a reliable support from a credible trading broker , because the broker can affects the result of our trading with certainly.
 

[Debby_Tompkins 0]

A person who is aware of the recent trends and the one who knows where and when to invest makes more money.

We should know before investing that what's the score scope of investing in a long or short term investment, we should know the difference. Once, things are clear we can generate more profit.

[CrazyCzarina 17]

Trader who is having strategy that really works in this market, also having mind which can survive the risk and management both with market movement.

[landorra 3]

  On 12/12/2019 at 5:52 AM, Debby_Tompkins said:

A person who is aware of the recent trends and the one who knows where and when to invest makes more money.

We should know before investing that what's the score scope of investing in a long or short term investment, we should know the difference. Once, things are clear we can generate more profit.

And not only that. Knowing your own psychological problems is fundamental. Not everyone is ready for this kind of market's trading.

[eliotchang 0]

One should not be worried so much about if one is more profitable than the other but with which you are most comfortable with, and what style you are best with.

[CrazyCzarina 17]

Any of the above could make you more money, but the thing is that you have to identify your skills and also it all depends upon the capital you possess.

[fxeconomist 11]

Where can I find scalping bot for trading crosses during Asian sessions. Should support MT5 platform, preferably tested on on Hotforex broker.

[CrazyCzarina 17]

Scalper bots are considered to be illegal in some countries because they would be preventing some fair and equal access for the goods for consumers who wish to buy them. So, first, you should check that is it legal in your country or not.