Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

MadMarketScientist

Who Makes More Money?

Who Is More Profitable?  

46 members have voted

  1. 1. Who Is More Profitable?

    • Short term trading (shorter time frames, scalping)
      73
    • Long term trading (longer time frames, swinging)
      93
    • Investing (Warren Buffett style)
      36


Recommended Posts

Not necessarily ,the more you trade the more are the chances that'll u'll make losing trades ..my personal psychology is to trade less but trade only when u are sure abt it....scalping is just a miss or hit game

 

It seems a clearer definition of scalping would be in order - why should it be called a hit or miss game and why isn't swing trading the same kind of game then? Imho, any kind of trading on any timeframe without a sound strategy, disciplined execution and evaluation is a hit or miss game. Price action is the same on all TFs. The choice of a trader's preferred time frame is a matter of personality and psychology - ability to tolerate risk over time, time needed to fully recover between periods of risk, intuitive ability, swiftness of decision making, etc.

 

As for the definition, I suppose we would agree that scalping, technically, is a breakout or pullback reversal strategy going for a high probability one directional move without major pullbacks (a single leg) - as opposed to swing trading where the holding time is longer and the trade endures through pullbacks in exchange for the probability of one to three extra legs within a swing. If we define it as such, then, technically, scalping is possible on any TF - from 70 ticks to daily to weekly charts - the setups for scalping look the same on all TFs, it only takes a different period of time to play out and reach the target or stop on different charts.

 

So, scalping, if we do not become attached to the superficial and erroeous notion that it is some reckless button pushing akin to playing the slot machine, is not limited to a particular timeframe - it is a type of strategy (or set of strategies), executed by the trader, vis a vis price behaviour. When people realize this, they are inevitably drawn to lower timeframes, because they understand that lower time frames give them the same kind of risk-reward play within minutes to hours compared to several days on higher TFs, so the potential for profit is considerably higher.

 

Hence, it is not correct to berate intraday "scalping" as such or look upon it as gambling, just because some people manage to apply the same breakout/pullback reversal strategy on lower timeframes better than others (i.e. push bottons more frequently, though still deliberately and for exactly the same reasons). Imho, in the presence of a sound strategy, your time rhythm is the key to success - how long you can bear the pain of uncertainty/loss before losing your head, and how long it takes to fully recover from a loss or climb down from the highs of a win. And I'd say trade the lowest TF that you your personality permits (the necessary condition being total focus and composure before every trade). And if you can trade a one-directional move strategy consistently profitably on 15 or 5 min TF, you can proudly call yourself an intraday "scalper". But the pride should come not from being a "scalper" (no-pullbacks trader), but from being able to play the same game faster than the "scalpers" on the 1H or daily charts do. Comparing it to sports, you will have advanced to a higher league of ability (hit a faster moving ball with the same amount of control and precision).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hence, it is not correct to berate intraday "scalping" as such or look upon it as gambling, just because some people manage to apply the same breakout/pullback reversal strategy on lower timeframes better than others (i.e. push bottons more frequently, though still deliberately and for exactly the same reasons).

 

Im am not berating Scalping. I know scalping exists and there are many day trading who do it successfully time after time .But saying that scalpers are more smart is not agreeable (as the other poster said) . There is not a single scalper who is there on the Forbes list .They were all long term traders/investors/fund owners and they used to invest only after getting reliable information about their desired assets.

My personal choice would be to do 10 trades a month and win 8 of them rather than having 120 trades a month and winning 70 of them........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is not a single scalper who is there on the Forbes list .They were all long term traders/investors/fund owners and they used to invest only after getting reliable information about their desired assets.

 

On Forbes, we see billionaire investors who do not do technical trading (either swing or scalping) themselves – they don’t need to. But I bet the traders at their hedge funds do a lot of both, and the question remains open which strategy generates more cash for them ;). I doubt the investors we see on Forbes could be called “swing traders”. Does Warren Buffet really do trading himself? From the article quoted:

 

"Berkshire Hathaway, in which Buffett owns 27 percent, according to a recent proxy filing, has more than $26 billion invested in eight financial companies that have received bailout money. The TARP at one point had nearly $100 billion invested in these companies and, according to new data released by Thomson Reuters, FDIC backs more than $130 billion of their debt. To put that in perspective, 75 percent of the debt these companies have issued since late November has come with a federal guarantee. [...] Without FDIC’s debt guarantee program, even impregnable Goldman would have collapsed."

 

I suppose that goes well beyond the scope of swing trading. That's big money feeding on monopoly money at the source of issue. No individual trader piggy-backing on the big money's moves, whether for a swing or scalp, will ever catch up with those guys on the Forbes list. Even scalpers like Paul Rotter, who allegedly makes USD 60million a year from scalping, are small fry compared to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Another vote for Warren Buffet.

 

Rolfe Winkler | Analysis & Opinion | Reuters.com

 

This is surely the most profitable way.

 

To trade the Warren Buffet Way u need to have big money to invest which most of us dont have. But i will agree that Position trading is the least risky among others cause this is the only trading style which needs thorough research thus minimizing the risk.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On Forbes, we see billionaire investors who do not do technical trading (either swing or scalping) themselves – they don’t need to. But I bet the traders at their hedge funds do a lot of both, and the question remains open which strategy generates more cash for them ;). I doubt the investors we see on Forbes could be called “swing traders”. Does Warren Buffet really do trading himself? From the article quoted:

 

"Berkshire Hathaway, in which Buffett owns 27 percent, according to a recent proxy filing, has more than $26 billion invested in eight financial companies that have received bailout money. The TARP at one point had nearly $100 billion invested in these companies and, according to new data released by Thomson Reuters, FDIC backs more than $130 billion of their debt. To put that in perspective, 75 percent of the debt these companies have issued since late November has come with a federal guarantee. [...] Without FDIC’s debt guarantee program, even impregnable Goldman would have collapsed."

 

I suppose that goes well beyond the scope of swing trading. That's big money feeding on monopoly money at the source of issue. No individual trader piggy-backing on the big money's moves, whether for a swing or scalp, will ever catch up with those guys on the Forbes list. Even scalpers like Paul Rotter, who allegedly makes USD 60million a year from scalping, are small fry compared to them.

 

You are saying the same point as im doing ..to get to the rich list one has to get out of the retail world. Retail traders are never going to be on the rich list just like a retail shopkeeper never becomes a super rich stores tycoon owner....one has to get out of this retail bubble to get to the next level.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent post. The ramifications of it I am first feeling now....after 15 yrs of trading. TRADING FOR MOST OF US WILL NEVER BE WORTH IT BECAUSE.....We can never do both...1-pay our bills from our winnings, and compound our money until our acct is big enough to make us rich.

 

I am a winning trader. I win consistantly. But waht good is making 50% a year which is better than Warren does if all of that and more goes for living expenses. Its a guarantee to go broke.

 

The guy who gets into trading as a hobby,with the goal to slowly learn, and the ultimate goal to add extra income to his nest egg,will likely be the one to become the next Buffett!

 

Are we all blind when we start trading? Why do we not do the math and ask ourselves...How will we ever have the size trading account we need if we cant even make enough to pay all our bills?

 

Unless we have a wife who works that dont mind paying the bills..............this is a movie that will usually have a very sad ending. Look at all the guys selling systems on the Internet that claimed to be floor traders with yrs of experience.

 

What happened to all of their money?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Excellent post. The ramifications of it I am first feeling now....after 15 yrs of trading. TRADING FOR MOST OF US WILL NEVER BE WORTH IT BECAUSE.....We can never do both...1-pay our bills from our winnings, and compound our money until our acct is big enough to make us rich.

 

I am a winning trader. I win consistantly. But waht good is making 50% a year which is better than Warren does if all of that and more goes for living expenses. Its a guarantee to go broke.

 

The guy who gets into trading as a hobby,with the goal to slowly learn, and the ultimate goal to add extra income to his nest egg,will likely be the one to become the next Buffett!

 

Are we all blind when we start trading? Why do we not do the math and ask ourselves...How will we ever have the size trading account we need if we cant even make enough to pay all our bills?

 

Unless we have a wife who works that dont mind paying the bills..............this is a movie that will usually have a very sad ending. Look at all the guys selling systems on the Internet that claimed to be floor traders with yrs of experience.

 

What happened to all of their money?

 

I'm hoping to have a nicely sized account before I move out of my parent's house. If I could get at least 250,000 dollars that would be enough because with margin it would be half a million, and I know I can at least make 20% which would be more than enough to live on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So what does everyone think? Do scalpers collect enough pennies throughout the day? Or do the swing traders make more compounding their position?

 

MMS

 

Very good scalper I heard make more money than very good swing traders but on the average the former group makes a lot less than the latter. Scalping was invented in the pits I think and now with HFT it is difficult to do it from home unless you collocate expensive hardware.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a winning trader. I win consistantly. But waht good is making 50% a year which is better than Warren does if all of that and more goes for living expenses. Its a guarantee to go broke.

 

Are we all blind when we start trading? Why do we not do the math and ask ourselves...How will we ever have the size trading account we need if we cant even make enough to pay all our bills?

 

That's exactly the point and math behind this question - all in favour of scalping, if you want to grow your account, that is. Swing trading is for those with serious accounts, like 200,000 USD at the very least. Then you can trade longer timeframes at your leisure risking no more than 0.5 pct of account per trade and make a living. If you make 30 pct a year, that's 60K, not a fortune but good enough to start with as a swing trader.

 

But if you start small, you've got to be scalping intraday, unless you can afford to spend a century to get rich. And for competent intraday scalpers a daily profit goal is easily 5 pct of account risking 1-2 pct of account per trade. Do the maths of compounding and you'll see the allure of scalping - there's virtually no limit to how fast you can build your account: start with 10K, make 2 pct of account per day on average risking 1 pct per trade and you'll have doubled your account in less than two months, and on and on.

 

One more circumstance in favour of scalping is that, like it or not, the market is range-bound most of the time - exactly the ideal conditions for scalping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is also no limit to how fast you can ........ blow your account.

 

Having winning trades is easy.

 

Holding and building an account, which can't be rushed, is the hard part.

 

Do you mean holding a trade or holding a growing account? I think most of us have trouble with the latter by becoming careless, not executing the strategy, feeling like we're now rich enough to experiment and risk more to get even richer, not following risk and money management rules etc., etc. But that's a matter of psychology and discipline, not of one strategy being better over the other.

 

Meanwhile, as far as strategy goes, I'd like to share this article: To scalp or swing trade? That is the question . My takeway from this article, coupled with the realization about the laws that govern price movement in the markets, is that part-scalping/part-swinging is the best strategy:

- first off, provided a strategy with an edge and disciplined execution is place, intraday trading will build the account much faster

- that's because in the lower timeframes you'll get many nice and quite broad channels and ranges with high probability setups and even good trends whereas all you see on the higher TF is unreliable congestion,

- the best strategy is mainly scalp and leave a smaller swing position on (set to break even) for a possible major breakout; if the breakout doesn't happen, you've gotten something out of the trade, no worries, take a rest, do new analysis and take it from there.

- as emphasized in the article, this approach is very motivating psychologically, because you get a scalp out of most of your trades, and if the major breakout does happen, you're already positioned for a good swing (and enter with new scalps along the way).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trader who have proper market analytical skill and who knows to manage money and risk properly makes more money. If you do not possess this skills than you have to select appropriate broker to do that work for you. I have been trading since 3 years and I have earned a lot through my Broker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to me I think , You can earn money from various sources , but In Forex you have to pass a long time with great patience if you want to earn mney from here, and you have to ensure a reliable support from a credible trading broker , because the broker can affects the result of our trading with certainly.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A person who is aware of the recent trends and the one who knows where and when to invest makes more money.

We should know before investing that what's the score scope of investing in a long or short term investment, we should know the difference. Once, things are clear we can generate more profit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/12/2019 at 6:52 AM, Debby_Tompkins said:

A person who is aware of the recent trends and the one who knows where and when to invest makes more money.

We should know before investing that what's the score scope of investing in a long or short term investment, we should know the difference. Once, things are clear we can generate more profit.

And not only that. Knowing your own psychological problems is fundamental. Not everyone is ready for this kind of market's trading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scalper bots are considered to be illegal in some countries because they would be preventing some fair and equal access for the goods for consumers who wish to buy them. So, first, you should check that is it legal in your country or not.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Thx for reminding us... I don't bang that drum often enough anymore Another part for consideration is who that money initially went to...
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • How long does it take to receive HFM's withdrawal via Skrill? less than 24H?
    • My wife Robin just wanted some groceries.   Simple enough.   She parked the car for fifteen minutes, and returned to find a huge scratch on the side.   Someone keyed her car.   To be clear, this isn’t just any car.   It’s a Cybertruck—Elon Musk's stainless-steel spaceship on wheels. She bought it back in 2021, before Musk became everyone's favorite villain or savior.   Someone saw it parked in a grocery lot and felt compelled to carve their hatred directly into the metal.   That's what happens when you stand out.   Nobody keys a beige minivan.   When you're polarizing, you're impossible to ignore. But the irony is: the more attention something has, the harder it is to find the truth about it.   What’s Elon Musk really thinking? What are his plans? What will happen with DOGE? Is he deserving of all of this adoration and hate? Hard to say.   Ideas work the same way.   Take tariffs, for example.   Tariffs have become the Cybertrucks of economic policy. People either love them or hate them. Even if they don’t understand what they are and how they work. (Most don’t.)   That’s why, in my latest podcast (link below), I wanted to explore the “in-between” truth about tariffs.   And like Cybertrucks, I guess my thoughts on tariffs are polarizing.   Greg Gutfield mentioned me on Fox News. Harvard professors hate me now. (I wonder if they also key Cybertrucks?)   But before I show you what I think about tariffs… I have to mention something.   We’re Headed to Austin, Texas This weekend, my team and I are headed to Austin. By now, you should probably know why.   Yes, SXSW is happening. But my team and I are doing something I think is even better.   We’re putting on a FREE event on “Tech’s Turning Point.”   AI, quantum, biotech, crypto, and more—it’s all on the table.   Just now, we posted a special webpage with the agenda.   Click here to check it out and add it to your calendar.   The Truth About Tariffs People love to panic about tariffs causing inflation.   They wave around the ghost of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff from the Great Depression like it’s Exhibit A proving tariffs equal economic collapse.   But let me pop this myth:   Tariffs don’t cause inflation. And no, I'm not crazy (despite what angry professors from Harvard or Stanford might tweet at me).   Here's the deal.   Inflation isn’t when just a couple of things become pricier. It’s when your entire shopping basket—eggs, shirts, Netflix subscriptions, bananas, everything—starts costing more because your money’s worth less.   Inflation means your dollars aren’t stretching as far as they used to.   Take the 1800s.   For nearly a century, 97% of America’s revenue came from tariffs. Income tax? Didn’t exist. And guess what inflation was? Basically zero. Maybe 1% a year.   The economy was booming, and tariffs funded nearly everything. So, why do people suddenly think tariffs cause inflation today?   Tariffs are taxes on imports, yes, but prices are set by supply and demand—not tariffs.   Let me give you a simple example.   Imagine fancy potato chips from Canada cost $10, and a 20% tariff pushes that to $12. Everyone panics—prices rose! Inflation!   Nope.   If I only have $100 to spend and the price of my favorite chips goes up, I either stop buying chips or I buy, say, fewer newspapers.   If everyone stops buying newspapers because they’re overspending on chips, newspapers lower their prices or go out of business.   Overall spending stays the same, and inflation doesn’t budge.   Three quick scenarios:   We buy pricier chips, but fewer other things: Inflation unchanged. Manufacturers shift to the U.S. to avoid tariffs: Inflation unchanged (and more jobs here). We stop buying fancy chips: Prices drop again. Inflation? Still unchanged. The only thing that actually causes inflation is printing money.   Between 2020 and 2022 alone, 40% of all money ever created in history appeared overnight.   That’s why inflation shot up afterward—not because of tariffs.   Back to tariffs today.   Still No Inflation Unlike the infamous Smoot-Hawley blanket tariff (imagine Oprah handing out tariffs: "You get a tariff, and you get a tariff!"), today's tariffs are strategic.   Trump slapped tariffs on chips from Taiwan because we shouldn’t rely on a single foreign supplier for vital tech components—especially if that supplier might get invaded.   Now Taiwan Semiconductor is investing $100 billion in American manufacturing.   Strategic win, no inflation.   Then there’s Canada and Mexico—our friendly neighbors with weirdly huge tariffs on things like milk and butter (299% tariff on butter—really, Canada?).   Trump’s not blanketing everything with tariffs; he’s pressuring trade partners to lower theirs.   If they do, everybody wins. If they don’t, well, then we have a strategic trade chess game—but still no inflation.   In short, tariffs are about strategy, security, and fairness—not inflation.   Yes, blanket tariffs from the Great Depression era were dumb. Obviously. Today's targeted tariffs? Smart.   Listen to the whole podcast to hear why I think this.   And by the way, if you see a Cybertruck, don’t key it. Robin doesn’t care about your politics; she just likes her weird truck.   Maybe read a good book, relax, and leave cars alone.   (And yes, nobody keys Volkswagens, even though they were basically created by Hitler. Strange world we live in.) Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/the-truth-about-tariffs-busting-the-inflation-myth    Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/       
    • No, not if you are comparing apples to apples. What we call “poor” is obviously a pretty high bar but if you’re talking about like a total homeless shambling skexie in like San Fran then, no. The U.S.A. in not particularly kind to you. It is not an abuse so much as it is a sad relatively minor consequence of our optimism and industriousness.   What you consider rich changes with circumstances obviously. If you are genuinely poor in the U.S.A., you experience a quirky hodgepodge of unhelpful and/or abstract extreme lavishnesses while also being alienated from your social support network. It’s about the same as being a refugee. For a fraction of the ‘kindness’ available to you in non bio-available form, you could have simply stayed closer to your people and been MUCH better off.   It’s just a quirk of how we run the place and our values; we are more worried about interfering with people’s liberty and natural inclination to do for themselves than we are about no bums left behind. It is a slightly hurtful position and we know it; we are just scared to death of socialism cancer and we’re willing to put our money where our mouth is.   So, if you’re a bum; you got 5G, the ER will spend like $1,000,000 on you over a hangnail but then kick you out as soon as you’re “stabilized”, the logistics are surpremely efficient, you have total unchecked freedom of speech, real-estate, motels, and jobs are all natural healthy markets in perfect competition, you got compulsory three ‘R’’s, your military owns the sky, sea, space, night, information-space, and has the best hairdos, you can fill out paper and get all the stuff up to and including a Ph.D. Pretty much everything a very generous, eager, flawless go-getter with five minutes to spare would think you might need.   It’s worse. Our whole society is competitive and we do NOT value or make any kumbaya exception. The last kumbaya types we had werr the Shakers and they literally went extinct. Pueblo peoples are still around but they kind of don’t count since they were here before us. So basically, if you’re poor in the U.S.A., you are automatically a loser and a deadbeat too. You will be treated as such by anybody not specifically either paid to deal with you or shysters selling bejesus, Amway, and drugs. Plus, it ain’t safe out there. Not everybody uses muhfreedoms to lift their truck, people be thugging and bums are very vulnerable here. The history of a large mobile workforce means nobody has a village to go home to. Source: https://askdaddy.quora.com/Are-the-poor-people-in-the-United-States-the-richest-poor-people-in-the-world-6   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.