To Arm or to Disarm.

[Tams 20]

you are confused

you are confusing the struggle against a foreign occupier with the right to bear arms in a peaceful republic. Do you think your arms are going to force a change of a "tyranny" government in USA? You are living in the dark ages. And frankly, I don't believe you know a thing about buddha and his teachings.

[Tams 20]

[Ingot54 13]

Whatever you can, as an individual, keep and bear on your person should be allowed within reason of course.

What - no way - you aren't trying to stop me from owning and using my raptor for self-protection. Damn thang costs a fortune to maintain, an' I'm gonna use it sometime!

 

Don't try to manipulate the constitution to mean what you want it to mean - arms are arms - there is nothing to limit what I can use in self-defence. if I want to use stun-grenades and cluster bombs and RPG's to get that rattle-snake that attacked me, then the constitution says I can. :o :o

 

The constitution nowhere uses the terms "within reason of course" so I think you are out of order attempting to qualify the intent with your own words.

 

What else are you interpreting for your own purposes? :rofl::rofl:

[Ingot54 13]

even if USA ban all the assaults, and fully auto and hi cap mags, there are enough quantity out in the public hands that it will make the ban on paper only. there will be absolutely no effect on how the lunatics operate whatsoever. people will still die of gun shot wounds, and the gun zealots will come out to say, see, i told you so.

Absolutely spot on Tams - In Australia these automatic weapons have been illegal to own without just cause soince 2006 - 2007.

 

We are still seeing an increase in gun violence in this country - but not with registered weapons - the crazies always seem to source their dick extensions illegally.

 

US, Australian police bust gun supply ring - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

Politicians are cowardly anyway - they can intimidate law-abiding people into doing "the right thing" ... but against the mobs, they are gutless, useless, hopeless, and left scurrying for more laws to "fix the problem."

 

Worth remembering for when they "come for you" ... if we mob together, they will back off! (hope hope)

[Ingot54 13]

As far as the clarification on the second amendment to smmatrix. Your interpretation is a bit off. The purpose behind it in the first place was to be able to defend against the government military. So yea a missile launcher to take out tanks is reasonable under those terms. Here is a video of a famous justice. Worth watching both clips at least for 10 minutes especially the second link.

 

:rofl:

 

So ... I guess the Raptor is off the list.

 

The judge said that certain laws exist so as "not to cause afright" meaning the meat cleaver would need to be concealed ... or left at home.

 

Bummer.

 

I wonder if that law covers Drones?

 

Military Drones Prowl US Skies - Yahoo! News

The kill chain: Australia's drone war - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

A Global Hawk spy drone is prepared for a night mission at an undisclosed location in the Middle East.

[Ingot54 13]

no, I still blame the guns.

Yep - count me in that number too.

 

If there were no guns, those kids live!

[Ingot54 13]

-

 

Hope you All have a Very Merry Christmas!!

 

 

 

 

See ya'll after the holidays!

 

Good to see you have a sense of humour .... you are kidding ... right?

 

I mean no one could seriously post such a sicko pic after what has happened.

 

:thumbs down: :thumbs down: :thumbs down:

 

There will always be gun-nuts ... until we manage to take away the guns.

[MadMarketScientist 11]

"Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell said Tuesday that policymakers should not overreact to the Connecticut school shooting but should discuss allowing school officials to carry firearms on campus.

Friday’s shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School left 26 victims dead, including 20 children. It has renewed the gun debate, with President Obama pledging to address gun violence in the coming weeks. Some Democrats, like Virginia U.S. Sen. Mark R. Warner and avid hunter and West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin III, have said they now favor more restrictions on guns.

Mr. McDonnell, a Republican, said during his monthly radio show on Washington’s WTOP on Tuesday that if school officials were trained and chose to have a weapon, they might have an opportunity to stop someone from trying to get into a school.

“I know there’s been a knee-jerk reaction against that. I think there should at least be a discussion of that,” Mr. McDonnell said. “If people were armed, not just a police officer, but other school officials that were trained and chose to have a weapon, certainly there’d be an opportunity to stop aggressors coming into the schools."

 

The solution is more guns! Arm all the teachers with loaded weapons! What an idiot

 

MMS

[Ingot54 13]

Ye,after all is said and done, the pendulum has swung so far IMHO, I myself, who have no desire to ever carry a gun,

let alone buy one, am seriously considering getting one. It just may be that America MAY soon turn into the wild west

as even now gangs and thugs roam beyond their treacherous small areas into the mainstream of society,that NOT

carrying a gun may make as much sense as being in the military and not knowing how to shoot a gun. God help us but

at the rate gangs,apathy towards victims, and all this rediculous "over-concern" for the perpetrators rights over the victim

and their families...we might even have pockets of anarchy where there are places not safe even for the police, I will end

this by asking every one of you:

 

Is there any man who would dare walk around ANY part of Laredo,TX day and night? Oh you didn't know that it is the

main area of the US for murders of Law Enforcement agents and citizens alike as it sits right on the Mexican border!

When was the last time any of you said to a buddy "Lets drive thru an inner-city at night just to see what really goes

on there." You would not dare! Well guess what? They are now "daring" to come into your areas...and slowly take

over, little by little. Do we wait for some kind of Civil War or a cry for Martial law to be put into effect before we do

something either for or against carrying a gun? There "is" room for both sides to give good reason to____.

But in the end, if we wind up in a society where guns can be rented like CD's from a vending machine (It is that way

now in many many inner cities) will it be too late to discuss anything!!!?

Don't panic, Vince - and have some faith in the silent majority.

 

The minority are having their day in the sun atm, but when the brown smelly stuff hits the spinning thing, you can count on decent people to stand up.

 

There are enough good people in the world still, to overcome evil fear with goodwill and l-o-v-e ... regardless of how uncomfortable some people are around the term "love."

 

I care not whether people are buddhist, Christian or communist - there are good mums and Dads everywhere who just want to be able to raise their kids and earn an honest days living, feed, clothe and shelter themselves and their loved ones.

 

These are the silent majority, who never heard of TL ... and don't get involved with trite debates.

 

But touch their families, and they will come for you.

 

That is what I meant in the OP: "If you believe something strongly enough, be prepared to die for it - don't be prepared to kill for it."

 

I don't think ZDO was singling this out in his post #152, where he said: "Gun-haters -> liberal -> loving and fearless -> willing to die instead of fight –> it’s the culture’s fault -> intelligent -> compassionate -> we’ve evolved beyond weapons now ->…" - he paints with a broad brush and is not into finger pointing.

 

But Gandhi with his civil disobedience found a way, and people like MLKing, MalX, even JFK stood their ground.

 

Consequences ... Yes.

Afraid? ... Yes.

Made a difference? ... Absolutely.

 

All of those people would have been dead in the natural order of things by today anyway - we only have one short life to give.

 

Does it matter if we die at 46 like JFK ... ML King at 39 ... Malcolm X at 39 ... Mohandas Gandhi at 78 ... Abe Lincoln 56 ... Jesus Christ 33 ... we are still a long time dead.

 

There is no virtue in shrinking like a violet in the face of danger or intimidation. Great things are achieved when people face down their fears.

 

I have great faith that there are enough of us to overcome these threats, when the need presents.

 

Don't buy that gun.

[Ingot54 13]

Other interesting quotes

Yes ... just people expressing their fears, that is all.

[smmatrix 11]

[Vince50 10]

Ingot, you have a very good point. I pray that you are right. This country will cease to exist as we know her if you are not. Case in point:

 

40 or 50 years ago an entire country of people started to really develop their hopes for a truly better life for the first time in their history. After all, they sat next to the richest country in the world. How could they possibly not benefit. They could either buy or sell to us in ways undreamed of in their forfathers day. And the best thing yet was they had modern police now, with police cars and radio communication even! My God, no more banditos. The govt will finally have theresources to protect them. life is looking preeeeeeety goooooood,senor!!!

But because most people have no vision and make no plans for catastrophic events,(No Im not talking about U.S. citizens...the most savvy consumers in the world....am I?

This countries people could not possibly imagine that in 3 or 4 years after the death of Columbias biggest drug lord, the entire balance of power,freedom,rights and wealth would be transferred almost instantly. In what seems like one day, a group of very shrewd criminals took over the entire country with bribes from drug money so they can get more money to sell more drugs to get more money to sell more drugs....to get more money to buy US political apathy??????????????? (Looks that way to me,but Im just a poor trader)

 

So these hard working people, and I am talking about our Mexican neighbors who make what we think is a hard day of work, to them thats a vacation. They didnt know guns would suddenly be needed. And #2-they didnt know that 2 or 3 groups of people fighting over turf,would take alllllllllll of them. That would be just a bad dream 10 yrs ago. After all, they not only had their own police, they had the mighty United States literally next door to them. They would never let this happen.

 

My point Ingot, is that if something so horrifying (we haven't begun to see how much....yet!)

could happen in almost a blink of an eye, and if the working man in Mexico wasn't suddenly made into a frightened,poor,desperate being after all the years of work they put in without complaint for "affirmative action" we go and throw NAFTA on them to totally make it almost impossible to survive as an honest working man. All employment opportunity was/is now for the thug,the desperado, the lawless. So my point Ingot is that if it could happen to them, and we were supposed to be watching over our neighbor,its what people do for each other, isnt it? They now have been abandoned by their own govt, their police, our govt and our citizens who have no idea how to help them. I'm simply saying Ingot, as they took the JEWS away in railway cars.........still they werent worried. "This cant happen here!" was the cry of apathy for the day. Well it can and it did. And if history has taught us anything, it is that the older the world gets and the bigger it grows,on one hand, the faster it atrophies and falls apart. Put it in a traders prospective. Lets call what I suspect may happen, the black swan event of the century:Partial loss of control of certain pockets of the country. Did any trader ever think they would live to see a "flash crash" where the stock market swung 1000 points in almost the blink of an eye?" That was a ten million to one event. But it happened. Know why? Because if in trading there are 10 million different black swan events that could happen...one of them definitely will! So we as a Nation can expect a black swan event. My prayer is it can be dealt with, with least loss of life.

 

So I am very hopeful you are right,Ingot and I should just relax. But.....I am in light of the insane events I just mentioned, I am very fearful if should you be wrong. Ingot, think of we traders as Mexican farmers. We toil all day tilling the soil(we pour over charts and books and log in thousands of hours of screen time) so we can reap a benefit. That is until one day, if you cant picture it I certainly can,where Prez Obama is saying on TV, after 30 or 40 gang members with military firepower decimate a small town in Virginia somewhere, I can here him saying..."What I need for everyone to do is to stay calm. Dont go running out and buying weapons. If you live near the Staunton Virginia area, please just remain inside, the national guard is on its way. You have my pledge, you have my pledge, you have my pledge......" and suddenly traders are getting too nervous by news events to trade. I have had it happen to me already where I woke u pin a good mood,booted up my computer and then read that pirates killed an entire crew of sailors to steal the cargo. Or (true story) they found the remains of 77 men,women and children buried in a huge pit in LAREDO ,TX. I as a humane trader, have taken days off out of respect for both the victims and my own sanity, because to just pretend it didnt happen like 98% of us must do to get thru our day, is not the stuff I am personally made of. So.......

 

And as we are hearing "You have my pledge" in the back of Obamas mind is "They" better find out who sold us out, who got those files, who killed those ATF men." as he smiles and waves. Ingot I am not worried you might be wrong, I am worried I might already be too late to do anything gun or not...if you are! And while I appreciate you wanting me not to get excited, and Im not quite there yet or I wouldnt be here....LOL............When I think of all the mothers,thousands and thousands who come home to an empty house, because their husband is in prison for murder and their cute little boy with those adorable doe eyes was killed by 15 yr old "gangstas" for no reason at all. Can we tell them, not to get too excited. For maaaaaany poor souls here on US soil, the war has begun, and we lost it already. Traders are just human beings....,but to think in these times we will find that perfect system and just tune out the world in some villa in the Caribbean once was realistic. I dont think it is anymore. But I will be damned if I dont have as much joy and excitement from this great profession we call trading as I can. A drink for all my trader friends,tonight. I'm buying! :haha:

[MightyMouse 12]

you are confused

you are confusing the struggle against a foreign occupier with the right to bear arms in a peaceful republic. Do you think your arms are going to force a change of a "tyranny" government in USA? You are living in the dark ages. And frankly, I don't believe you know a thing about buddha and his teachings.

 

No one would ever learn Buddhism and think they way this guy does.

The same is true for someone learning to be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu., and etc. This guy was dragged through a watered down version of something. I am pretty sure it is Christian, but when you water it down it isn't Christian anymore. It is something else. It is rather clear that his religious believes are directly tied to his politics. He may think he is Christian, but he just isn't.

 

In his mind there is a benefit of having firearms to quell his delusional fears even if from time to time it costs the lives of innocent people, recently twenty 6 year old children. I am no expert, but that doesn't sound Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Hindi to me.

[MightyMouse 12]

even if USA ban all the assaults, and fully auto and hi cap mags, there are enough quantity out in the public hands that it will make the ban on paper only. there will be absolutely no effect on how the lunatics operate whatsoever. people will still die of gun shot wounds, and the gun zealots will come out to say, see, i told you so.

 

Tams,

 

A ban will have an impact. In Newtown's case, we are unfortunate that Adam Lanza's mother had guns. He did go to purchase a gun and if assault rifles were not available, then he wouldn't have been able to get one and the damage, at least, would have been less. Unfortunately, his second amendment advocate mother had one. Unfortunately for her, her guns did not protect her or anyone. If she didn't have one, he wouldn't be able to have one. I do not think the kid would have been able to obtain one if he couldn't have gotten it from his mother. It at least would have been harder and he may have turned to plan B.

 

Not everyone who has guns is irresponsible. But, then, there will always be some who exercise poor judgement.

 

One of the nuts in the Columbine massacre bought an assault pistol from someone who knew he was underage and he sold it to him anyway.

[MightyMouse 12]

Police Raid Gun Store Where Nancy Lanza Purchased Rifle After Owner Was Unaware That a Man Stole an AR-15 With Plan For a Massacre

 

This is all a truly dark comedy.

[SunTrader 10]

.....I remain... a buddhist.

Yes and don't let anyone tell you differently.

[SunTrader 10]

I stopped believing in the fantasy of religion oh about the age of 15.

 

It took till age 19 to throw in the towel on the tooth fairy though.

 

But I have heard of Christians and Muslims attacking others. Not any Buddyist so Steve you're ok in my book.

 

Hey why'd you leave Vegas? Too decadent.

[Tams 20]

I stopped believing in the fantasy of religion oh about the age of 15.

 

It took till age 19 to throw in the towel on the tooth fairy though.

 

But I have heard of Christians and Muslims attacking others. Not any Buddyist so Steve you're ok in my book.

 

Hey why'd you leave Vegas? Too decadent.

 

an armed to teeth buddhist? never heard of one. they would immolate before picking up a gun.

[SIUYA 11]

always interesting to go back and re-read some things from the start and re-org thoughts.

Some things change, some things dont - and much gets lost in the lack of context from randomly thrown together unedited words.

 

Symmatrix i apologise i thought you were some crazed right wing conservative christian - you are merely some paranoid right wing conservative buddishit (typo i laughed at and so left - no offence intended) - and we really had no idea on your view point until this one....

 

for me this sums you up - and changes forever my view of buddists - well done.(plus Tams - buddists can be armed, be soldiers etc; but i am not sure about this though)

 

Post #71

BECAUSE I'M ARMED TO THE HILT AND MOST EVERYONE KNOWS IT.

 

Otherwise, I would be just another one of the sheeple awaiting to be victimized.

given the previous talk of odds of shootings, attacks and other such, you do realise that the odds of you getting killed by your own gun are also pretty high.....

 

............

some more good useless 'supposed facts' and ideas that we can throw in for good measure.....

 

about 250,000 rounds of ammunition have been used to kill each insurgent in Afghanistan.

and you are worried about the government sending in their troops ..... :doh:

 

...............

In Switzerland, a decade ago the government started providing legal centres where people could safely inject heroin – for free. Burglary rates fell by 60 percent, and street homelessness ended. A study by the Lancet – one of the most respected medical journals in the world – found that the rate of people becoming new heroin addicts fell by 82 percent. Why? Heroin addicts didn’t need to recruit new addicts to sell to in order to feed their habit. The pyramid scheme of heroin addiction was broken.

Possible reason for why the Swiss crime rate is low?

 

............

The 1918 flu pandemic (the "Spanish flu") was an influenza pandemic. It was an unusually deadly and severe pandemic that spread across the world...... Most victims were healthy young adults, in contrast to most influenza outbreaks, which predominantly affect juvenile, elderly, or weakened patients.

The pandemic lasted from January 1918 to December 1920,[3] spreading even to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands. Between 20 and 50 million died, making it one of the deadliest natural disasters in human history.[1][4][5][6][7] Using the higher estimate of 50 million people, 3% of the world's population (which was 1.86 billion at the time[8]) died of the disease. Some 500 million, or 27%, were infected.[1]

 

and you are worried by some 280lb gorilla in the bedroom when a simple thing like not washing hands which causes the spread of a microbe has killed more people.

 

...........

1688 English Bill of Rights which states "Subjects which are Protestants may have Arms for their Defense"

.........

sorry if i just gave you something extra to worry about.

[Tams 20]

always interesting to go back and re-read some things from the start and re-org thoughts.

Some things change, some things dont - and much gets lost in the lack of context from randomly thrown together unedited words.

 

Symmatrix i apologise i thought you were some crazed right wing conservative christian - you are merely some paranoid right wing conservative buddishit (typo i laughed at and so left - no offence intended) - and we really had no idea on your view point until this one....

 

For me this sums you up - and changes forever my view of buddists - well done.(plus tams - buddists can be armed, be soldiers etc; but i am not sure about this though)

 

post #71

because i'm armed to the hilt and most everyone knows it.

 

Otherwise, i would be just another one of the sheeple awaiting to be victimized.

given the previous talk of odds of shootings, attacks and other such, you do realise that the odds of you getting killed by your own gun are also pretty high.....

 

............

Some more good useless 'supposed facts' and ideas that we can throw in for good measure.....

 

About 250,000 rounds of ammunition have been used to kill each insurgent in afghanistan.

And you are worried about the government sending in their troops ..... :doh:

 

...............

In switzerland, a decade ago the government started providing legal centres where people could safely inject heroin – for free. Burglary rates fell by 60 percent, and street homelessness ended. A study by the lancet – one of the most respected medical journals in the world – found that the rate of people becoming new heroin addicts fell by 82 percent. Why? Heroin addicts didn’t need to recruit new addicts to sell to in order to feed their habit. The pyramid scheme of heroin addiction was broken.

Possible reason for why the swiss crime rate is low?

 

............

The 1918 flu pandemic (the "spanish flu") was an influenza pandemic. It was an unusually deadly and severe pandemic that spread across the world...... Most victims were healthy young adults, in contrast to most influenza outbreaks, which predominantly affect juvenile, elderly, or weakened patients.

The pandemic lasted from january 1918 to december 1920,[3] spreading even to the arctic and remote pacific islands. Between 20 and 50 million died, making it one of the deadliest natural disasters in human history.[1][4][5][6][7] using the higher estimate of 50 million people, 3% of the world's population (which was 1.86 billion at the time[8]) died of the disease. Some 500 million, or 27%, were infected.[1]

 

and you are worried by some 280lb gorilla in the bedroom when a simple thing like not washing hands which causes the spread of a microbe has killed more people.

 

...........

1688 english bill of rights which states "subjects which are protestants may have arms for their defense"

.........

Sorry if i just gave you something extra to worry about.

 

rotflmao !

[Ingot54 13]

Ingot, you have a very good point. I pray that you are right.

I am right.

 

You can always trust someone who says they are not a Buddhist.

 

EDIT:

I am coming out.

 

Against the flow of a viral Buddhist growth spike in membership, I have to confess that I am a closet non-Buddhist.

 

Don't ask me why .... but at a time when so many are claiming to be Buddhist, I have to say "no" .... that is not me.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Ingot54

[MightyMouse 12]

...............

In Switzerland, a decade ago the government started providing legal centres where people could safely inject heroin – for free. Burglary rates fell by 60 percent, and street homelessness ended. A study by the Lancet – one of the most respected medical journals in the world – found that the rate of people becoming new heroin addicts fell by 82 percent. Why? Heroin addicts didn’t need to recruit new addicts to sell to in order to feed their habit. The pyramid scheme of heroin addiction was broken.

Possible reason for why the Swiss crime rate is low?

 

 

Mind altering substances are a funny thing. People will do what it takes to self medicate. I agree that the unintended consequences of US drug policy is more crime and death and expense.

[DbPhoenix 42]

Hey why'd you leave Vegas? Too decadent.

 

At the beginning of the thread, he was from San Francisco.

 

Shenanigans?

 

Db

[Cory2679 11]

NRA Press Conference NRA press conference about to begin. Might be an interesting watch.

[SunTrader 10]

At the beginning of the thread, he was from San Francisco.

 

Shenanigans?

 

Db

 

Oh I didn't notice. He may be originally.:shrug: I just know, as far as I remember, he was based in Nepal uh uh I mean Las Vegas years ago.