To Arm or to Disarm.

[smmatrix 11]

How would more guns have helped?

 

Seriously?

 

Another gun in the room will always prevent a massacre!

 

I don't know why some seemingly smart people can't understand a simple concept... If you remove the guns from the good guys, then only the bad guys have guns. Plain and simple... The good guys can stop bad guys with guns!

[SIUYA 11]

 

I don't know why some seemingly smart people can't understand a simple concept... If you remove the guns from the good guys, then only the bad guys have guns. Plain and simple... The good guys can stop bad guys with guns!

 

I guess one problem is defining the good and bad guys - your friend Alex Jones seems to define everything from Hollywood to vaccines to evolution as part of the message to keep people suppressed.

 

who is going to do that, how will the bad guys be suppressed apart from by more teachers with guns......what happens when you dont fit in with the mold....?

 

I do get where you are coming from, i also think its only part of puzzle.

Everytime i read/view something supporting your viewpoint i get an uneasy feeling that those describing everyone as a sheeple are just another form of the same thing.

 

How can you believe that everybody who is currently a sheep can suddenly be trusted to think on their own behalf without making fatal decisions?

 

The more US history i see its apparent you really do live in a historically violent society that has formed your views - there is more than just the revolutionary republic war....there was the ones against the Indians, the Mexicans, the civil war....etc. So i understand ,ore your viewpoint.....yet you claim other countries violence is increasing and yours is decreasing.....another confusing

.....

so lets say i 100% support you just we are on the same page and you choose not to ignore these questions....what are the answers to the concerns people have?

hint: arming more people is not what seems to be considered a satisfactory answer

 

Even if i was 100% committed to your cause - i still should be asking these questions and not having more propaganda and brainwashing shoved down the pipeline - its part of the Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty....right?

[SIUYA 11]

thought i might thorw in a little light hearted music.....

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87b4a4a2wmY]MINISTRY New World Order - YouTube[/ame]

[MightyMouse 12]

Seriously?

 

Another gun in the room will always prevent a massacre!

 

I don't know why some seemingly smart people can't understand a simple concept... If you remove the guns from the good guys, then only the bad guys have guns. Plain and simple... The good guys can stop bad guys with guns!

 

You didn't answer. How would more guns have prevented the shooting? Think before you push you agenda as an answer. I am very curiuos as to how more guns would have stopped that kid. Btw the kid's gun was a good guy's gun.

 

Here is your chance to convert me.

[smmatrix 11]

 

Here is your chance to convert me.

 

Dude, you're already stuck in your liberal anti-constitutional beliefs.

 

There has been much said in this thread to make any intelligent person open their eyes, but you can probably learn why you are the way you are from this article:

 

Where Does The Hatred Of Constitutionalism Come From?

[MightyMouse 12]

Dude, you're already stuck in your liberal anti-constitutional beliefs.

 

There has been much said in this thread to make any intelligent person open their eyes, but you can probably learn why you are the way you are from this article:

 

Where Does The Hatred Of Constitutionalism Come From?

 

Is that your answer, dude? Protectong innocent life is anti-constitutional? Please, I am interested. Tell me more, dude.

[SunTrader 10]

......

 

also i thought some might like this Ghandi quote i stumbled on - i dont know if its true - i have no accurate source for it.....

 

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, weather the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?"

 

Non-Violence in Peace and War, 1942, Vol. 1, Ch. 142 but it is whether the mad .....

 

I like this one though:

 

All that a pacifist can undertake — but it is a very great deal — is to refuse to kill, injure or otherwise cause suffering to another human creature, and untiringly to order his life by the rule of love though others may be captured by hate.

 

Vera Brittain, in "What Can We Do In Wartime?", Forward (9 September 1939)

[SunTrader 10]

thought i might thorw in a little light hearted music.....

 

Song title is actually N W O.

 

Which of course stands for New World Order.

 

I can be picky sometimes. Saw Ministry live back in the day. :thumbs up:

[MightyMouse 12]

Let's hope the good guys don't turn out to be bad guys in disguise.....

 

Ohio School Janitors To Carry Handguns - Yahoo! News UK

 

they'll have 2 days of training. The children will be safe. Everyone can learn how to properly use a handgun in a high stress situation in 2 days. The military wastes a lot of time and money with extensive training. They should follow the Ohio district lead.

 

 

It'll be great. They'll be able to defend themselves against grammar school kids with lethal chicken finger guns. Shoot them instead of suspend them.

 

Boy suspended for pointing chicken finger like gun - The Firing Line Forums

[MightyMouse 12]

Dude, you're already stuck in your liberal anti-constitutional beliefs.

 

There has been much said in this thread to make any intelligent person open their eyes, but you can probably learn why you are the way you are from this article:

 

Where Does The Hatred Of Constitutionalism Come From?

 

You still haven't answered. The California shooting wasn't a massacre. Try to answer intelligently without polarizing your response to your conservative liberal stand-off. How would more guns have kept the child from being shot?

[smmatrix 11]

[smmatrix 11]

[Tams 20]

Producer of popular gun-related videos found fatally shot

 

Producer of popular gun-related videos found fatally shot - CNN.com

 

[Vince50 10]

Zdo,

 

You certainly are a passionate man about your right to bear arms. Some of what you say I agree with. But, I will never engage anyone who will start a sentence off with "The stupid leaders of this stupid country......" because in my world I cannot ever spit in the face of men who gave me and maybe all the world freedoms that would never exist without the "Fabulous 12" shall we call them.

 

That said, my man, I would like to step into a further direction about 2nd amendment rights and gun disarming and that is..What good will it be, if those who use guns in what they think is an appropriate situation, have to go into hiding,as well as their parents and family? AKA-George Zimmerman. I do not know much about the case. I admit that. But the problem I suspect is neither does anyone else...except Mr. Zimmerman. And his freedoms were taken away as he must live in hiding because certain groups of people feel trials aren't really fair, and like you, they might possibly believe the govt. is out to hide everything and screw every one over. I personally do not believe our govt is that radical nor as our choice of President proves...prejudiced! But..I think we have a lot bigger problems coming soon to a theater near you, when people we dont know, want to kill a man they don't know, over a teenager they dont know....for what reason...I dont know. This is a tipping point in people either grabbing or demanding certain rights that our country is NOT based on. Denial of due process. Is it a perfect system? No. Would every citizen of a middle eastern country and China AND Russia love to have our Prisons and judicial system? You bet. What I fear happening is that this may become a pattern, that when someone stands up for their rights, their families will have to go into hiding or heainous hate crimes will be purpetrated. This has been brewing a loooong time. And truthfully, I couldnt tell you who they are or give you a name if you gave me a million dollars. Sadly, does ANYONE know who REALLY will be responsible if citizens of America no longer feel they can step forward and testify to the truth, guns involved or not.

 

And back to the gun rights conversation, I do not think many of us realize that if the govt wanted to take away any of our rights at all, we have no choice but to accept it or leave the country. What wil we do, form militias to go up against the National Guard and Army? Give me a break. If they want to detain us in a prison in Guantanemo, they will and are doing so. If they want to invade our privacy in any way, they will and are doing so. I truthfully am very, very did I say very pleased that we have not had another terrorist attack since 9/11. You can bet that was no easy task for either Commander in Chief in charge since 9/11.

And if our govt wants to for whatever reason just open the doors of immigration to let every boatload of "Castro like immigrants" from the Scarface movie just run amuck on our shores, well...there isn't anything our gun rights can do about that either. Am I happy about all of this? No. But I believe peaceful protesting in the end will be the precursor for lasting change in this country. Gunshots just turn our heads for the moment. And yes, I do have my CCW permit in my wallet. Peaceful I am, foolish I am not.

 

Now back to a much more important subject. Ingot, when are you going to shave?:haha:

[MightyMouse 12]

 

NationMaster - Crime stats: United Kingdom vs United States

 

In the United Kingdom firearms are tightly controlled by law, and while there is opposition to existing legislation from shooting organisations,[citation needed] there is little wider political debate, and prior to recent gun crime figures [1] public opinion had favoured stronger control.[2] The British Shooting Sports Council now believes that the law needs to be consolidated but it does not call for a review.[dead link]

This article's factual accuracy may be compromised due to out-of-date information. Please help improve the article by updating it. There may be additional information on the talk page. (January 2013)

 

 

The United Kingdom has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world with 0.07 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in 2009 compared to the United States' 3.0 (over 40 times higher) and to Germany's 0.21 (3 times higher).[3]

 

With the exception of Northern Ireland, it has been public policy that police officers in the United Kingdom should not generally be armed with firearms.[4][5][6] Despite police being unarmed, shooting fatalities of members of the police are extremely rare; there were three in England and Wales in the eleven-year period from 2000/01 to 2010/11.[7] About 7,000 police officers have received firearms training.[6][8] Standard police firearms include the Heckler & Koch G36 assault rifle [9] as well as the Heckler & Koch MP5 sub-machine gun, both rifles are semi-automatic carbine's along with semi-automatic pistols such as the Glock 17. [10] [11]

 

Just wow!

 

People lie, number don't. Can you show me how more firearms = less violence please?

Edited January 13, 2013 by MightyMouse

[MightyMouse 12]

International Gun Laws Show Firearm Availability is Related to Deaths - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

[SIUYA 11]

when you change the definition of assault or theft between various countries you will get different results. If you touch a person in some countries you can be charged with assault.

All BS really.....

 

There is probably only one crime by definition that every country could agree on - homicide - the result is beyond doubt. (and even this might be called various names, murder or manslaughter)

[MightyMouse 12]

 

Tell you what. I don't believe for a moment that you support what you post here. You seem to be just a sieve for NRA propaganda. I won't call you conservative or religious, because you are far from both. You certainly have not displayed characteristics of either here.

 

On the other hand, if you state that you would support the loose gun laws as we have them even if it meant losing your own child to a crime committed by another individual who goes on a rampage with a legally purchased gun, then I will respect that you are truly an advocate for your cause. Until then, IMO, you are a confused, delusional, easily fooled, myopic, etc. Exactly the guy I want on the opposite side of my trades.

[MightyMouse 12]

when you change the definition of assault or theft between various countries you will get different results. If you touch a person in some countries you can be charged with assault.

All BS really.....

 

 

That is true. My wife isn't an American citizen and when we have sex she calls it assault. Admittedly the weapon isn't deadly. These days, I would barely categorize it as a weapon at all.

[SIUYA 11]

article today in Australia.....

maybe the US should thank Australia for being an experiment - except of course they have different histories, culture and other issues.

 

Australia reloads as gun amnesties fail to cut arms

 

so for all those who trot out that crime is rising in Australia - the number of guns have increased again..Defeats your argument right?, or just shows the propaganda from both sides.

.......Just pointing out the same old stuff about cause, effect and BS statistics. There are other issues.

It would be interesting to see the whole research paper.

[smmatrix 11]

OKLAHOMA WOMAN STOPS ROBBERS WITH GUN

 

 

 

...We're pretty sure this is an isolated incident <sarcasm> this never happens in real life... in this case, the police most certainly would have arrived in time to protect her...NOT <more sarcasm>!

 

Pam Loman of Shawnee, Oklahoma scared off three men trying to break into her home.

 

She was cleaning her home on Friday when a man knocked on her front door, while two others stayed in the car. When she did not answer the man resorted to banging on the door. Mrs. Loman got scared and went for her gun.

 

"So my instinct was to go get a gun. I don't know why, I never in my life felt like I needed to go get a gun," said Mrs. Loman.

 

She had both hands on her .32-caliber pistol when the man knocked down her door.

 

“And just all of a sudden, with one kick, he knock the door completely in. The frame came flying down. Things came flying everywhere," she said. "And he saw that I had the gun, and he grabbed the door handle and pulled the door shut."

Mrs. Loman said if he did not run away and came into the house she would have shot him.

 

The gun saved her life. While politicians in Washington, DC want to strip Americans of their second amendment right, guns are the reason why many citizens are still alive.

 

Oklahoma Woman Stops Robbers with Gun

[MightyMouse 12]

article today in Australia.....

maybe the US should thank Australia for being an experiment - except of course they have different histories, culture and other issues.

 

Australia reloads as gun amnesties fail to cut arms

 

so for all those who trot out that crime is rising in Australia - the number of guns have increased again..Defeats your argument right?, or just shows the propaganda from both sides.

.......Just pointing out the same old stuff about cause, effect and BS statistics. There are other issues.

It would be interesting to see the whole research paper.

 

interesting article. Do you know how much the population grew over the same period?

 

A guess is about 30% over almost 20 years. So, still less guns In Australia. per capita than in 1996

Edited January 15, 2013 by MightyMouse

[SIUYA 11]

interesting article. Do you know how much the population grew over the same period?

 

A guess is about 30% over almost 20 years. So, still less guns In Australia. per capita than in 1996

 

smart cookie...

this is a follow up article.

Gun Buyback After Port Arthur | America Signals Gun Controls

 

It also shows that it has not been a 'ban' of weapons as is often touted. They are still they, just harder for those wanting to get hold of them, and for many it becomes not worth it. If you want to be a responsible gun owner you obviously still can.

[SIUYA 11]

for those interested. Zdo - I know you mentioned your concerns about addictions.

 

I watched "The house i live in" last night.

Doco about the war on drugs.

 

Every day, more people agree that the U.S. War on Drugs has failed? | The House I Live In

 

If you take all the politics out, biases etc and view it purely from an economic/incentives point of view it makes it interesting - especially the conclusion of some in the last 20mins.

[MightyMouse 12]

for those interested. Zdo - I know you mentioned your concerns about addictions.

 

I watched "The house i live in" last night.

Doco about the war on drugs.

 

Every day, more people agree that the U.S. War on Drugs has failed? | The House I Live In

 

If you take all the politics out, biases etc and view it purely from an economic/incentives point of view it makes it interesting - especially the conclusion of some in the last 20mins.

 

Guns and drugs are very much related. When you look at countries who have large drug issues, there is a large gun issue. Not necessarily lots of guns, just lots of murder. by guns. If you change the drug laws, you'll impact the homicide rate. No doubt in my mind.

 

The gun amnesty program is a good program. It would circumvent the NRA lobbyists. The enthusiasts who want to keep guns can keep them, and the people who want to get rid of them do. Plenty of the gun deaths are by accident from guns that are available to people (children) who do not know the basics of gun handling.