To Arm or to Disarm.

[Patuca 13]

besides who gives a sh?t about gandhi. i was just saying what the man said with his own mouth. how you interpret that well that is up to you..i just know what he said....

[MightyMouse 12]

more guns = less violence because us good bastards will hold the bad bastards at bay. and if we get shot as we are doing it we will fall forward shooting the bastards as we go down.

 

more guns = more deaths. It's a really simple thing to understand.

 

If you gave every adult at least 1 gun, then rate of gun ownership would basically double. It is a safe assumption to say that the number of accidental shootings would double too. So, instead of about 600 accidental shootings a year we would have 1200. Make sense to sacrifice another 600 people to minimize the the casualties of a lunatic on a death wish?

 

Go on and rant about liberal, leftist, whatever you want. Try to base your thoughts with facts. You'll see that your thoughts are simply an emotional response and not a workable solution for the long run.

[Patuca 13]

more guns = more deaths. It's a really simple thing to understand.

 

If you gave every adult at least 1 gun, then rate of gun ownership would basically double. It is a safe assumption to say that the number of accidental shootings would double too. So, instead of about 600 accidental shootings a year we would have 1200. Make sense to sacrifice another 600 people to minimize the the casualties of a lunatic on a death wish?

 

Go on and rant about liberal, leftist, whatever you want. Try to base your thoughts with facts. You'll see that your thoughts are simply an emotional response and not a workable solution for the long run.

wrong please read my previous link. so you are saying the workable solution is to take guns away? ok explain mexico. they dont let their people have guns. only the bad guys and gov get them apart from a few citizens. i just had a friend got back from there this month and he said it is like a war zone. and they have gun regulation down there. you go to prision if you have a gun. gun regulation doesn't work. got any other ideas? try not to get emotional :helloooo:

[Patuca 13]

maybe we should regulate vehicules. they are the cause of many accidental deaths you know.

[Patuca 13]

You can’t have a new world order and a totalitarian system when people have guns. In ALL socialistic/communistic/dictatorships, the FIRST thing they did was issue gun control, then a total gun ban.

 

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million

Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

 

 

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

 

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan

Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million

educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

 

You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians

disseminating this information.

 

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,

gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

 

Take note before it’s too late!

 

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this

history lesson.

 

With guns, we are ‘citizens’. Without them, we are ‘subjects’.

 

 

SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

SWITZERLAND’S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE. SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!! IT’S A NO BRAINER!

 

DON’T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

 

You’re not imagining it, history shows that governments always manipulate

tragedies to attempt to disarm the people

 

Source: Comment on article Dueling Data on Gun Crimes put New Laws in Crossfire. Washington Times

Edited December 30, 2012 by Patuca

[Patuca 13]

For informational purposes. Here is what really happens when citizens carry "heat" and when they don't. real life stuff. not armchair ivory tower concepts.

 

25 years murder-free in ‘Gun Town USA’

[MightyMouse 12]

wrong please read my previous link. so you are saying the workable solution is to take guns away? ok explain mexico. they dont let their people have guns. only the bad guys and gov get them apart from a few citizens. i just had a friend got back from there this month and he said it is like a war zone. and they have gun regulation down there. you go to prision if you have a gun. gun regulation doesn't work. got any other ideas? try not to get emotional :helloooo:

 

mexico is a drug issue. Organized crime will always have guns. adding guns to meixco with their drug issues will = more gun deaths. if you took the drug issues away from mexico, the homicide rate would drop. The guys that are shooting up schools and malls are not drug cartels.

 

You are comparing apples and oranges. Most of what I am suggesting is pretty simple and follows intuitively from the data. You have an agenda and need to do things like tell half truths, compare guns to cars, quote out of context.

[Patuca 13]

The DC handgun ban didn't work. The Britain handgun ban didnt work. The Chicago handgun ban didn't work. But the town that required all citizens to have a gun (see earlier post)...well it worked.

 

Gun Control - Just Facts

[Patuca 13]

mexico is a drug issue. Organized crime will always have guns. adding guns to meixco with their drug issues will = more gun deaths. if you took the drug issues away from mexico, the homicide rate would drop. The guys that are shooting up schools and malls are not drug cartels.

 

You are comparing apples and oranges. Most of what I am suggesting is pretty simple and follows intuitively from the data. You have an agenda and need to do things like tell half truths, compare guns to cars, quote out of context.

have you ever lived in Mexico? You don't even know what you are talking about. It is liberal ,socialist people like you that have the agenda and twist data to fit your agenda. I lived in Mexico for 12 years. Boots on the ground.

 

One thing you are right on. Organized crime will always have guns. So will any other crime. Another thing you are right on. adding guns to the drug issues = more gun deaths. That is correct the bastards that run the cartel will then FEAR the poulation. They will die. As it is now the population FEARS them because they have no recourse against them and the police are outgunned. The mexican population is terrified. Entire groups of police resign for fear.

 

Now the drug problem is an issue of supply and demand. Much like stocks and futures. Just to the north of Mexico lies the USA. We are the demand. Mexico..Central America..South America are the supply. Mexico's problem is OUR problem. We can't get a handle on the demand issue. We are the reason the drugs flow through Mexico. We are more at fault than Mexico for this drug problem but are we are too damn arrogant to admit it. I have lived in several countries. Mexicans are the proudest race of people I have come across. They ooze with pride. Americans are the most arrogant people I have come across. We think we know what is best for the world. We meddle in other countries internal affairs. We fight wars we should not be fighting. Then we wonder why they hate us. We sell the cartels guns (fast and furious) so they say in the news. We, yes we, create our own monsters then blame others.

 

PS I am American. Born in the USA. But we have to stop trying to be the policeman of the world. It isn't our job nor duty. We need to tend to our own business. Clean our own crime up and it won't be by sweet talking the monsters that do these killings in malls..etc. We must put fear into these monsters. Even in WW2 with the nuclear bomb Japan with all its suicide bombers surrendered. Fear drove them to do this.

 

what you are suggesting is ivory tower BS that doesn't work in the real world...never has and never will.

[Tams 20]

some posts deserve a reply................

[Patuca 13]

some posts deserve a reply................

others don't eh George

[SunTrader 10]

maybe we should regulate vehicules. they are the cause of many accidental deaths you know.

:doh:

 

:rofl:

 

Maybe? How about WE DO.

[SunTrader 10]

some posts deserve a reply................

 

Yup he's gone off the deep end - into my ig list.

[howthom 10]

I've been reading this thread from the beginning and wanted to add my observations. The killings in Newtown created strong emotional reactions in most who witnessed the horrific event. The reactions come out of a sense of what's right and whats wrong and, a sense of compassion for others.

 

The piece I feel missing is the individual awareness that these strong feelings we are having come from our beliefs. The question I ask is, do these beliefs and reactions serve me and bring me closer to my ideal.

 

I know even mentioning the word ideal will stimulate a variety of reactions, but for me, it's become something to consider. To have an ideal is to have a goal or something to aspire to. It gives direction. When we have a clear direction we can see when we begin to drift from the path. When we drift from our course, we make adjustments.

 

So, I ask myself, what is my ideal. What does my ideal world look like. What does the ideal me look like. And, what adjustments do I need to make to stay on that course.

 

It can be challenging to keep focused when there is so much divisiveness, greed and hatred. Human beings have the capacity to be wonderful and destructive. My sense is that each of us has the ability to awaken to a greater self and larger purpose.

 

It seems a narrow perspective to ask whether we should have more guns or fewer guns. What if we were to ask, what does it mean to be human? What are the characteristics of an evolved society? And what can we do both individually and collectively to move closer to those ideals? Just something else to consider.

[MightyMouse 12]

You can’t have a new world order and a totalitarian system when people have guns. In ALL socialistic/communistic/dictatorships, the FIRST thing they did was issue gun control, then a total gun ban.

 

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million

Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

 

 

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

 

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan

Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million

educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

 

You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians

disseminating this information.

 

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,

gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

 

Take note before it’s too late!

 

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this

history lesson.

 

With guns, we are ‘citizens’. Without them, we are ‘subjects’.

 

 

SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

SWITZERLAND’S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE. SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!! IT’S A NO BRAINER!

 

DON’T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

 

You’re not imagining it, history shows that governments always manipulate

tragedies to attempt to disarm the people

 

Source: Comment on article Dueling Data on Gun Crimes put New Laws in Crossfire. Washington Times

 

You forgot the Kurds. They were armed. Did their guns do them any good when sadaam cooked them with chemical weapons?

 

I am not sure, but did the guns also turn to carbon when the Japanese were carbonized when we dropped the A bomb on them? Hmmm Can someone tell that the glob of metal was a gun after it has been subjected to heat levels equivalent to the surface of the sun?

 

Switzerland has a much lower poverty rate than we do. The also have universal healthcare which is socialistic. Additionally, they have different drug laws than we do. It isn't a good comparison. Let us duly note that Patuca inwardly admires the benefits of socialistic policy. He won't be able to admit it since he will be shunned by other gun toting motorcycle riding conservatives. Appreciating Socialistic policy is basically like admitting that you prefer men, Right?

 

How are those Iraqi insurgents doing? I think they need one more gun each. That will help.

[Patuca 13]

You forgot the Kurds. They were armed. Did their guns do them any good when sadaam cooked them with chemical weapons?

 

I am not sure, but did the guns also turn to carbon when the Japanese were carbonized when we dropped the A bomb on them? Hmmm Can someone tell that the glob of metal was a gun after it has been subjected to heat levels equivalent to the surface of the sun?

 

Switzerland has a much lower poverty rate than we do. The also have universal healthcare which is socialistic. Additionally, they have different drug laws than we do. It isn't a good comparison. Let us duly note that Patuca inwardly admires the benefits of socialistic policy. He won't be able to admit it since he will be shunned by other gun toting motorcycle riding conservatives. Appreciating Socialistic policy is basically like admitting that you prefer men, Right?

 

How are those Iraqi insurgents doing? I think they need one more gun each. That will help.

.....so.....universal healthcare and relaxed drug policies are the silver bullet to cure societies problems. now if switzerland will just get rid of those guns ...... out would pop the perfect society. don't worry MM you will soon have universal healthcare and next will be legalization of drugs so your bright future is just around the corner. the only hitch is i don't think you can pry those guns out of americans hands. maybe after they are dead. but some are so stubborn they just might hold on to them all the way to the grave.

 

it is obvious you are a socialist. a liberal. a new world order. a leftist. a globalist...or an aspiring one...lets see if i can think of any other things that would make for a fair description......

 

um..lets see here. no guns and that will do away with dictators. so the fault of the kurds was their guns? lets blame the guns for them getting gassed. yep if they just wouldn't have had those guns ole saddam would have left them alone and they would have prospered as a society should prosper.

 

now MM if a thief and murderer/drug addict were to show up at your house lets say around 1:00 one night and you awoke and confronted him in your house what would you do?

 

a. shoot him with your water pistol

 

b. beg him to be reasonable and discuss the terms of the robbery perhaps even drawing up a contract

 

c. call the police just before he blows you away

 

d. hide behind your wife

 

e. tell him it is ok because it is legal to rob people nowdays

 

f. offer to treat his drug problem

 

g. smoke a joint with him

 

h. before confronting him dig out grandpa's 357 that you hid away (but kept just in case) in the shoe box in the closet when you were attempting to convert to a no gun policy.

 

me thinks you might opt for h. unless of course you are a real jackass (which you might be)

 

MM i bet you have a gun in your house. DO YOU? Fess up now. DO you? :missy:

[DbPhoenix 42]

now MM if a thief and murderer/drug addict were to show up at your house lets say around 1:00 one night and you awoke and confronted him in your house what would you do?

 

a. shoot him with your water pistol

 

b. beg him to be reasonable and discuss the terms of the robbery perhaps even drawing up a contract

 

c. call the police just before he blows you away

 

d. hide behind your wife

 

e. tell him it is ok because it is legal to rob people nowdays

 

f. offer to treat his drug problem

 

g. smoke a joint with him

 

h. before confronting him dig out grandpa's 357 that you hid away (but kept just in case) in the shoe box in the closet when you were attempting to convert to a no gun policy.

 

me thinks you might opt for h. unless of course you are a real jackass (which you might be)

 

None of the above. You'd be dead before you had a chance to lift your head from the pillow.

 

Life is not the movies.

[Patuca 13]

None of the above. You'd be dead before you had a chance to lift your head from the pillow.

 

Life is not the movies.

you are correct. i too would do neither. i would get my guns and wait in the dark corner of my bedroom and let the bastard come to me.

[Patuca 13]

time for fessing up

 

Please indicate yes/no to the following question.

 

Do you own or have a gun in your home or premises (work...etc. or otherwise)

 

1) ingot54

2) suntrader

3) zdo

4) tams

5) johnw

6) Cory2679

7) Siuya

8)DbPhoenix

9) Mightymouse (with a name like that you better have one)

10) Predictor

11) SMmatrix

12) jimbo320

13) Colonel B

14) vince50

15) Madmarketscientist

[MightyMouse 12]

.....so.....universal healthcare and relaxed drug policies are the silver bullet to cure societies problems. now if switzerland will just get rid of those guns ...... out would pop the perfect society. don't worry MM you will soon have universal healthcare and next will be legalization of drugs so your bright future is just around the corner. the only hitch is i don't think you can pry those guns out of americans hands. maybe after they are dead. but some are so stubborn they just might hold on to them all the way to the grave.

 

it is obvious you are a socialist. a liberal. a new world order. a leftist. a globalist...or an aspiring one...lets see if i can think of any other things that would make for a fair description......

 

um..lets see here. no guns and that will do away with dictators. so the fault of the kurds was their guns? lets blame the guns for them getting gassed. yep if they just wouldn't have had those guns ole saddam would have left them alone and they would have prospered as a society should prosper.

 

now MM if a thief and murderer/drug addict were to show up at your house lets say around 1:00 one night and you awoke and confronted him in your house what would you do?

 

a. shoot him with your water pistol

 

b. beg him to be reasonable and discuss the terms of the robbery perhaps even drawing up a contract

 

c. call the police just before he blows you away

 

d. hide behind your wife

 

e. tell him it is ok because it is legal to rob people nowdays

 

f. offer to treat his drug problem

 

g. smoke a joint with him

 

h. before confronting him dig out grandpa's 357 that you hid away (but kept just in case) in the shoe box in the closet when you were attempting to convert to a no gun policy.

 

me thinks you might opt for h. unless of course you are a real jackass (which you might be)

 

MM i bet you have a gun in your house. DO YOU? Fess up now. DO you? :missy:

 

Finding inexpensive solutions that preserve life are just @#$%^&* stupid aren't they? Putting a gun in the hands of everyone and continuing with our same drug policies are simply brilliant, right? Your solution harms the most people and costs the most. Conservative right?

 

I stated earlier that I removed guns from my home when my first child was old enough to explore. The risk of injury to him or others was infinitely greater than the benefit of having them.

 

I suppose it would be option i. I would crack his skull or die trying to crack his skull. As far as I know, skulls still do crack. You didn't have that option in your list. I suppose that most liberals like myself would do the same.

 

In any event, I can no longer be engaged in the pointless mire or conservative vs liberal rhetoric. Apparently the preservation of life is liberal. It is foolish to me because you are both the same and somehow you gain benefit by name calling and labeling. It is their way of getting control of you to support their agenda. You are true to your team. Bravo!

 

Meanwhile, I have a government in my country that is supporting business and those who plan to assist in the creation of jobs. I have taken advantage of it and intend to take advantage of it in 2013. I hope to nearly double my workforce and will take advantage of all the programs that are being offered to assist employers who are engaged in job creation. Are you aware that our government is offering that to those who are willing to participate in job creation? Has the group you support let you know that? Probably not because it is not part of their agenda to help you or to help our nation. Does that sound American to you?

 

In sum, I will create revenue which will help provide assistance to you so you can live your life supporting expensive and foolish programs that allow you to play army without consideration of how it gets paid for. You should remove your Jesus above your bed and replace it with my picture and pray that people like me continue to exist so that you can spend money that you don't have. You are conservative.

[Tams 20]

time for fessing up

 

Please indicate yes/no to the following question.

 

Do you own or have a gun in your home or premises (work...etc. or otherwise)

 

1) ingot54

2) suntrader

3) zdo

4) tams

5) johnw

6) Cory2679

7) Siuya

8)DbPhoenix

9) Mightymouse (with a name like that you better have one)

10) Predictor

11) SMmatrix

12) jimbo320

13) Colonel B

14) vince50

15) Madmarketscientist

 

I was in the military; I was trained in handling rifles, submachine guns, and handguns.

I was a marksman in my unit; I could score a bullseye in 300 yds with ease.

I could disassemble, clean, and reassemble any of the above guns in the dark. I was trained to do that.

I have no guns at home (or any places that I associate with), nor do I need any.

I have not fired a single round since I left the military more than 30 years ago.

[DbPhoenix 42]

I was in the military; I was trained in handling rifles, submachine guns, and handguns.

I was a marksman in my unit; I could score a bullseye in 300 yds with ease.

I could disassemble, clean, and reassemble any of the above guns in the dark. I was trained to do that.

I have no guns at home (or any places that I associate with), nor do I need any.

I have not fired a single round since I left the military more than 30 years ago.

 

Ditto, though it's been a bit more than 30.

[Tams 20]

.....so

...

now MM if a thief and murderer/drug addict were to show up at your house lets say around 1:00 one night and you awoke and confronted him in your house what would you do?

 

a. shoot him with your water pistol

b. beg him to be reasonable and discuss the terms of the robbery perhaps even drawing up a contract

c. call the police just before he blows you away

d. hide behind your wife

e. tell him it is ok because it is legal to rob people nowdays

f. offer to treat his drug problem

g. smoke a joint with him

h. before confronting him dig out grandpa's 357 that you hid away (but kept just in case) in the shoe box in the closet when you were attempting to convert to a no gun policy.

 

me thinks you might opt for h. unless of course you are a real jackass (which you might be)

 

MM i bet you have a gun in your house. DO YOU? Fess up now. DO you? :missy:

 

 

 

Patuca trying to shoot the intruder

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11fcg543Jow]Guy shoots himself with a Glock 18 17 Converted - YouTube[/ame]

[Tams 20]

.....so.....universal healthcare and relaxed drug policies are the silver bullet to cure societies problems. now if switzerland will just get rid of those guns ...... out would pop the perfect society. don't worry MM you will soon have universal healthcare and next will be legalization of drugs so your bright future is just around the corner. the only hitch is i don't think you can pry those guns out of americans hands. maybe after they are dead. but some are so stubborn they just might hold on to them all the way to the grave.

 

it is obvious you are a socialist. a liberal. a new world order. a leftist. a globalist...or an aspiring one...lets see if i can think of any other things that would make for a fair description......

 

um..lets see here. no guns and that will do away with dictators. so the fault of the kurds was their guns? lets blame the guns for them getting gassed. yep if they just wouldn't have had those guns ole saddam would have left them alone and they would have prospered as a society should prosper.

 

now MM if a thief and murderer/drug addict were to show up at your house lets say around 1:00 one night and you awoke and confronted him in your house what would you do?

 

a. shoot him with your water pistol

b. beg him to be reasonable and discuss the terms of the robbery perhaps even drawing up a contract

c. call the police just before he blows you away

d. hide behind your wife

e. tell him it is ok because it is legal to rob people nowdays

f. offer to treat his drug problem

g. smoke a joint with him

h. before confronting him dig out grandpa's 357 that you hid away (but kept just in case) in the shoe box in the closet when you were attempting to convert to a no gun policy.

 

me thinks you might opt for h. unless of course you are a real jackass (which you might be)

 

MM i bet you have a gun in your house. DO YOU? Fess up now. DO you? :missy:

 

 

Thank you for the opportunity to repost these videos.

 

MUST WATCH VIDEO

 

Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s]Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part One - YouTube[/ame]

 

 

 

Part II

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg]Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part Two - YouTube[/ame]

[MadMarketScientist 11]

Ok Guys ... this thread is almost getting out of hand ... let's tone down the name-calling please ...

 

thx

MMS