To Arm or to Disarm.

[Patuca 13]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing...

 

The majority of the bad pack heat...the majority of the good don't pack heat but leave it at home.

[Patuca 13]

You need more drugs. The drugs you are taking are not enough.

you are a delusional liberal

[DbPhoenix 42]

[MightyMouse 12]

you are a delusional liberal

 

I probably appear delusional if you are conservative. Twist one up and enjoy. Thank your stars that someone did a lot of hard work for you.

[Patuca 13]

I probably appear delusional if you are conservative. Twist one up and enjoy. Thank your stars that someone did a lot of hard work for you.

it wasn't your type that did it. your type attempts to destroy what was gained by hard work and sacrifice

[MightyMouse 12]

it wasn't your type that did it. your type attempts to destroy what was gained by hard work and sacrifice

 

My type is doing it. I pay more than my fair share so that your type can enjoy a leisurely life and make ridiculous statements such as the desire to add armed people to schools which arms more people and not less.Your type criticizes the current administration for spending too much yet your type proposes to add more spending by adding armed personnel to schools. Think about how pathetically contradictory your type are!! My type is a bit too far to the right for your type.

 

However, if my wanting to arm fewer people makes me liberal, then I suppose I am a liberal.

[Patuca 13]

My type is doing it. I pay more than my fair share so that your type can enjoy a leisurely life and make ridiculous statements such as the desire to add armed people to schools which arms more people and not less.Your type criticizes the current administration for spending too much yet your type proposes to add more spending by adding armed personnel to schools. Think about how pathetically contradictory your type are!! My type is a bit too far to the right for your type.

 

However, if my wanting to arm fewer people makes me liberal, then I suppose I am a liberal.

LOL.... you making my life leisurely? :rofl: you leftist socialistic liberal. you probally don't believe in spanking kids either do you? you probally were never spanked when a child?..eh

[MightyMouse 12]

LOL.... you making my life leisurely? :rofl: you leftist socialistic liberal. you probally don't believe in spanking kids either do you? you probally were never spanked when a child?..eh

 

I have immigrant parents. I am over 50. You tell me if my parents spared the rod. If your kids need to be spanked then you should spank them. Fortunately, I have never had to spank my children. I am not sure how spanking children fits into this thread, but I won't question your motives further.

 

Also, I am not sure how me wanting smaller government makes me a socialist. Not sure how you agreeing with the solution for the govt to add hundreds of thousands of armed personnel to the ranks makes you conservative. Maybe conservatives are really socialists in disguise? Something sounds wrong.

[Patuca 13]

I have immigrant parents. I am over 50. You tell me if my parents spared the rod. If your kids need to be spanked then you should spank them. Fortunately, I have never had to spank my children. I am not sure how spanking children fits into this thread, but I won't question your motives further.

 

Also, I am not sure how me wanting smaller government makes me a socialist. Not sure how you agreeing with the solution for the govt to add hundreds of thousands of armed personnel to the ranks makes you conservative. Maybe conservatives are really socialists in disguise? Something sounds wrong.

i too am over 50. i too believe in smaller almost nonexistent gov. as far as spanking well i figured that one right...as least partially.

 

who said anything about the gov adding hundreds of thousands of armed personnel to the ranks? i am talking about the citizens carrying their arms. one thing bad guys understand is a gun and bullets. and if perchance they don't and do not restrain themselves from their evil plans and intentions...well ...it doesn't matter... the gun will stop them anyway. but where there is no gun they can't be stopped until awful things happen.

 

as far as being an immigrant goes ...well then your parents were probally conservative and perhaps you did receive a few corrections with the rod but obviousley rejected that later in life or you have perfect kids????

 

you probally don't believe in capitol punishment either. am i right? you probally think we can negociate or talk to these nuts that mow down people?? force has to be met with force...generally. there are exceptions. we could just take the guns from police officers and let them jaw at the murders and criminals and see if they can sweet talk them into not commiting their crimes. gun regulation won't keep these kinds of people from committing their crimes. it will leave society with less defence against them.

[MightyMouse 12]

i too am over 50. i too believe in smaller almost nonexistent gov. as far as spanking well i figured that one right...as least partially.

 

who said anything about the gov adding hundreds of thousands of armed personnel to the ranks? i am talking about the citizens carrying their arms. one thing bad guys understand is a gun and bullets. and if perchance they don't and do not restrain themselves from their evil plans and intentions...well ...it doesn't matter... the gun will stop them anyway. but where there is no gun they can't be stopped until awful things happen.

 

If you buy into the NRA solution then you buy into larger government. If your solution involves only arming more civilians, then there are lots of unintended consequences that emerge such as lots more homicide and more accidental shootings. Mass shootings will either go up or stay the same because everyone has a gun. The incidence of mass shootings will likely mirror the suicide rate. We can assume that the shooter will not be able to kill as many people if other adults are armed, but they still will be able to kill. You won't stop them until after they start shooting.

 

I suggest much much tighter gun possession laws and gun disposal laws. In nearly every instance of these shootings, the guns used were at some point purchased legally. If there was a law that made you, Patuca, responsible for the crimes your gun commits, then I would feel safe to say that your gun would not end up in the wrong hands since you would be a lot more careful about who you sold it too or if you left it out in the open to be stolen. I don't feel that it is necessary to remove the 2nd amendment, even though its value has diminished through time.

as far as being an immigrant goes ...well then your parents were probally conservative and perhaps you did receive a few corrections with the rod but obviousley rejected that later in life or you have perfect kids????

 

I got hit when I broke major rules. Needless to say, I got hit a lot. I prepared myself for children who would be like me. I didn't get what I was waiting for. They do what they are told. There is a lot of yelling, but they do not break any major rules. I am not going to hit them for no reason. I didn't get hit for no reason.

 

you probally don't believe in capitol punishment either. am i right? you probally think we can negociate or talk to these nuts that mow down people?? force has to be met with force...generally. there are exceptions. we could just take the guns from police officers and let them jaw at the murders and criminals and see if they can sweet talk them into not commiting their crimes. gun regulation won't keep these kinds of people from committing their crimes. it will leave society with less defence against them.

 

I believe that most criminals should be put in labor camps. Let them make gravel with sledgehammers. If they commit more crimes when released and have to go back in to crush stone again, then we know that they are truly stupid and not gaming the system for 3 square meals a day and bed. We need to focus on making money on every dollar we spend. There is lots of need for gravel.

 

The only way i would feel satisfied with capitol punishment is if a family member of the victim were able to do the killing. I am not talking about letting his or her hand push the lever down, in some sort of symbolic gesture, to release the humane drugs to slowly subdue and kill the murderer. If someone killed someone in your family, may God forbid it from ever happening, would you feel satisfied if the murderer was safely put to sleep? Fuck that. I at least want screams and torture for a period of time that is at a minimum of what I estimate the family member endured.If i had my way, it would be more. Otherwise, killing them humanely takes them out of his miserable life and I would be left to endure the agony of loss and the thoughts of what my family member had to go through in his or her last moments. I would not feel satisfied.

 

If others want the murderer put to death then fine, but as it stands I would rather know that the murderer is living the worst life possible to at least match the misery that I would feel. I would definitely want him to live as long as me and then be put to death. I would want him rehabilitated only to the point of him realizing the crime he committed so that he can suffer more, but not rehabilitated for release. If he went on a hunger strike, I would want him fed intravenously. Get the point? I would not be satisfied knowing that his life ended humanely.

 

Again, if this is liberal, then I am liberal.

[Patuca 13]

California gun sales jump; gun injuries, deaths fall - Data Center - The Sacramento Bee

[Patuca 13]

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online

[Patuca 13]

"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Mohandas Gandhi, an Autobiography, page 446.

[Vince50 10]

If you buy into the NRA solution then you buy into larger government. If your solution involves only arming more civilians, then there are lots of unintended consequences that emerge such as lots more homicide and more accidental shootings. Mass shootings will either go up or stay the same because everyone has a gun. The incidence of mass shootings will likely mirror the suicide rate. We can assume that the shooter will not be able to kill as many people if other adults are armed, but they still will be able to kill. You won't stop them until after they start shooting.

 

I suggest much much tighter gun possession laws and gun disposal laws. In nearly every instance of these shootings, the guns used were at some point purchased legally. If there was a law that made you, Patuca, responsible for the crimes your gun commits, then I would feel safe to say that your gun would not end up in the wrong hands since you would be a lot more careful about who you sold it too or if you left it out in the open to be stolen. I don't feel that it is necessary to remove the 2nd amendment, even though its value has diminished through time.

 

 

I got hit when I broke major rules. Needless to say, I got hit a lot. I prepared myself for children who would be like me. I didn't get what I was waiting for. They do what they are told. There is a lot of yelling, but they do not break any major rules. I am not going to hit them for no reason. I didn't get hit for no reason.

 

 

 

I believe that most criminals should be put in labor camps. Let them make gravel with sledgehammers. If they commit more crimes when released and have to go back in to crush stone again, then we know that they are truly stupid and not gaming the system for 3 square meals a day and bed. We need to focus on making money on every dollar we spend. There is lots of need for gravel.

 

The only way i would feel satisfied with capitol punishment is if a family member of the victim were able to do the killing. I am not talking about letting his or her hand push the lever down, in some sort of symbolic gesture, to release the humane drugs to slowly subdue and kill the murderer. If someone killed someone in your family, may God forbid it from ever happening, would you feel satisfied if the murderer was safely put to sleep? Fuck that. I at least want screams and torture for a period of time that

Again, if this is liberal, then I am liberal.

 

Patuca, we both know this can never be allowed in the USA..It must not be, for this is really the main thing that seperates us from Russia, and the middle eastern countries where they DO what you talk about to prisoners. But sadly as in all societies it cannot ever be KEPT in prisons.It leaks out to inhumanity for that countries citizens as well. Why dont we start oiff slowly. Just give the victims parents,spouse or kids some rights. And yeah it would give them great satisfaction to be saing to the criminal on death row as they are injecting lethal poison into them...."This was so unnessasary. I will still suffer, but at least maybe wherever you are going, you can tell your fellow inmates or cohorts that when you kill a person, you kill his family too. Look into my eyes and tell me if youd like to go your whole life with my rage and sadness?"

 

Now in 50% of the cases the murderer has not the CAPACITY to feel what we feel so it would fall on dead ears anyway. And to me, as in a rabid dog that just acts because it cant think, a humane punishment is really the thing to do................BUT NOT SITTING ON DEATH ROW FOR 5-10 YEARS, ON PATUCAS AND the countries tax dollars eating 3 meals a day and staying warm! Who benefits by that in our corrupt system? Nobody. It just "taxes" the system, forgive the sick pun. And if you want to be humane about it, maybe it causes grief to that mans family and children that maybe he will get out. Bring closure quickly! Yes?

 

So they dont close this thread on us, let me show how TRADERS could be affected by this. If a trader had his son or daughter killed by a maniac, could that trader ever trade the same again, or could he ever enjoy his succes the same way, knowing his wife and children were the ones he wanted to make proud of him...and now they are gone! SO YES,TRADERS MIGHT BE MORE AFFECTED BY A BRUTAL CRIME THAN JUST SOME ONE WHO ...........................??????

 

 

And now let us say a prayer for those 26 people whom I hope have reached their "final" destination by now, and to all the mothers and fathers who had the life sucked out of them in one day by some guy who just couldnt handle a simple disagreement or a step on his foot. Yes folks, we traders are not part of the Wall Street mentality and we grieve along with the families of the victims. God bless you all, wherever you are, whatever country you reside in. This as in trading, is a global issue. Amen.....

[Vince50 10]

I will repeat it again as 2012 comes to a close. INGOT started this thread with one of the most rational posts on gun controil and also on saving this country that has been in print in a very long time. I hope more INGOTS...... no not ingrates, I said INGOTS! lol Anyway we need more people to speak out in a civil way. For as the world authority on Sociology in the world who has studied human change better than any person alive, Margaret Meade. She has said....."It is only thru peaceful protest can lasting change occur. Indeed nothing else has worked so well in all of history. Why are we not doing so much more of it?"

 

Look at the reverse actions using her tactics and the horror it caused the entire world. In 1932 or 33, Hitler staged his now famous "Beer Hall Pusche" and with a group of about 4 or 5 men, described how it was time for Germany to take her rightful place at the top of the world, and right there the Nazi Party came into being. With 5 men just talking to a bunch of drinkers in a beer hall!!!!!! If this does not give any of you some very creative ideas, God help you.

[SunTrader 10]

"Among the many misdeeds ......

 

See my post #193. .

[Patuca 13]

I will repeat it again as 2012 comes to a close. INGOT started this thread with one of the most rational posts on gun controil and also on saving this country that has been in print in a very long time. I hope more INGOTS...... no not ingrates, I said INGOTS! lol Anyway we need more people to speak out in a civil way. For as the world authority on Sociology in the world who has studied human change better than any person alive, Margaret Meade. She has said....."It is only thru peaceful protest can lasting change occur. Indeed nothing else has worked so well in all of history. Why are we not doing so much more of it?"

 

Look at the reverse actions using her tactics and the horror it caused the entire world. In 1932 or 33, Hitler staged his now famous "Beer Hall Pusche" and with a group of about 4 or 5 men, described how it was time for Germany to take her rightful place at the top of the world, and right there the Nazi Party came into being. With 5 men just talking to a bunch of drinkers in a beer hall!!!!!! If this does not give any of you some very creative ideas, God help you.

oh sh??t. Marge Meade. Please dont bring her into this discussion. bf skinner might be better than her.

[Patuca 13]

evil can´t be educated away. it can at best be halted or stopped temporarily. taking guns away will allow it free rein. evil is not in the gun. it is in the heart of man. take away the guns and evil will find another way.

 

for evil to reign all it takes is for good men to do nothing in the face of evil.

 

if you were in a school with a concealed weapon on you and a murderer came in shooting would you

 

a. run like hell

b. lay down your gun and try to talk the thug out of doing what he is doing?

c. return fire and attempt to neutralize the threat?

 

I know what i would do.

 

and dont say if we has gun regulation he wouldnt be armed. That is wishful thinking. Mexico s has very strict gun regulation but the Bad guys are better armed than the cops and the gen pop lives in terror ...they aren´t armed or very few are.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Patuca

[Patuca 13]

Two comments I found without looking very hard:

 

"Arms" in this context were military arms not the personal weapons of private individuals. The context of "depriving of the whole nation of arms" was the refusal of the British to conscript Indians into the British Army during the First World War. Gandhi was an extreme anti-militarist. The statement is odd coming out of him, but he used the circumstance for political purposes to advance the cause of Home Rule and Independence"

 

and

 

"Your quote, though interesting, is taken way out of context. This is actually an excerpt from a leaflet Gandhi was passing around to gain recruits to fight for Britain during World War I. Organizers of a war conference, which Gandhi wanted to attend, quoted the leaflet as a way of illustrating that their political views differed from Gandhi's. In order to boot the British out of India, Gandhi engaged in many savvy, polemical activities designed to move India toward Home Rule. Distribution of this leaflet was apparently one of them. He certainly did not include the leaflet quote in his autobiography to support any opinion, one way or the other, on gun control. Reading the quote in context makes this crystal, sparkling clear. The passage in which the quote occurs has absolutely nothing to do with gun control or gun legislation.

 

Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge, at no point in Gandhi's 90-volume collected writings does he ever express a belief in an individual's right to keep and bear arms. It would certainly be weird if he did. If Gandhi will be remembered for anything, it will be for his passionate dedication to two principles. The first is ahimsa, a Hindu vow to never consciously injure another living creature. The second is satyagraha, the belief that non-violent methods are the only methods that should ever be used to resist injustice and tyranny. The leaflet quote simply doesn't reflect Gandhi's actual beliefs in any way."

 

And I would hope and expect anyone else who is a buddist or for that matter a follower of any religion or spiritual calling. I know it is not the case. But in those situations the belief is .... hypocrisy.

[/b] BS. and more BS. He plainly said the whole nation. Or maybe he was a big hypocrite and a liar and if so then his religion was in vain and he certainly wouldnt be a model to look up to..

[SunTrader 10]

[/b] BS. and more BS. He plainly said the whole nation. Or maybe he was a big hypocrite and a liar and .. .

...freakin gun nutjob like you huh?

 

A pacifist spirtual non-violent type believing in everyone having an AK or AR semi-assault.

 

:haha:

[Tams 20]

"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Mohandas Gandhi, an Autobiography, page 446.

 

please do not rehash this. it has been discussed many times. this is totally out of context, both in political background and the issue at hand. by citing this quote, you are not scoring any brownie point, you are not displaying your intelligence, you are not demonstrating any rational argument. the gun debate needs objective thinking on both sides, and you are not making contribution to the pro-lobby by posting this quote.

[Patuca 13]

please do not rehash this. it has been discussed many times. this is totally out of context, both in political background and the issue at hand. by citing this quote, you are not scoring any brownie point, you are not displaying your intelligence, you are not demonstrating any rational argument. the gun debate needs objective thinking on both sides, and you are not making contribution to the pro-lobby by posting this quote.

most everybody on this thread is showing little intelligence so i might as well join the crowd. most here know nothing of the real world and live in these theoretical ivory chair idealistic concepts.

 

ok suntrader or tams what would you do?

 

a. run like hell

b. lay down your gun and try to reason with the bastard

c. shoot the idiot

d something else

 

hint...you cannot reason with people like this so b. above probally wont work. you and ignot or whatever his name is would be dead meat before you could whistle ¨sweet dixie. dont think that gun laws would keep the bastard from getting a gun.

[Patuca 13]

...freakin gun nutjob like you huh?

 

A pacifist spirtual non-violent type believing in everyone having an AK or AR semi-assault.

 

:haha:

you borderline being an idiot. no freaking idea of the real world.

[Patuca 13]

more guns = less violence because us good bastards will hold the bad bastards at bay. and if we get shot as we are doing it we will fall forward shooting the bastards as we go down.

[Patuca 13]

i may have to get on my moto and leave all you milk sops here sucking your thumbs.