To Arm or to Disarm.

[Ingot54 13]

THE REAL PROBLEM:

 

What can dumb a mind down to such an extent that the person no longer can see

real people any more and loses all touch with humanity and reality?

 

In a word ... fear.

 

Fear of "them"

Fear of the future

Fear of the delirious scenario

Fear of loss ... of the consequences of not being "prepared"

Fear of not being superior to any and all threats, perceived or real

Fear of being humbled

Fear of not winning

Fear of the "bad guy" laughing at us

 

Yes, Smmatrix, those who want to carry guns for ANY of those reasons, is already

dumbed down to the concept that a violent response will overcome a violent offense.

 

Now that is dumb.

 

You didn't ever get back to me with the answer to the question: "Have you ever tried

love?" ... except to take the cheap shot at me (paying attention) and thus appear to

have answered something ... (answered what? ... I do not know).

 

I think you are afraid of intimacy, and the guns provide you with a way to prevent those

closest to you from engaging you intimately. Your guns always empower you ... not your intellect.

 

If you had your guns taken from you, and had to stand up and justify your use of

violence to counter perceived violence ... you could not do it.

 

Your cellar is empty - devoid of intelligent and even emotional engagement at a level

that could take the very first, tiny step towards ridding society of the need to even

remember what a gun used to be.

 

In a world that I strive for, I want no one to carry a weapon, save for his brain and his

ears and occasionally his mouth, but certainly he will require his good heart.

 

Right now that world is only a concept, but I think it is a worthwhile goal.

 

And if there are enough Ingot54's out there, we can achieve it, though some Ingot54's

may pay a price for it.

 

I am willing to die for such a dream, my dream.

 

Just as you seem suicidally bent on dying for yours.

 

At the end of the day, one of us will achieve our dream.

 

You'd better hope it is me.

 

In the meantime, going back to the quote above ... don't talk to me of "humanity" - you

wouldn't have the first idea of the word.

[smmatrix 11]

 

If the lib-nuts really did care about love and compassion, they would speak up against the real atrocities going on with the children, rather than trying to take guns away from law abiding citizens.

 

 

[Ingot54 13]

 

If the lib-nuts really did care about love and compassion, they would speak up against the real atrocities going on with the children, rather than trying to take guns away from law abiding citizens.

 

 

Which one are you glorifying ... justifying ... asking us to choose?

 

Introducing a red herring (abortion) instead of staying with the topic is not a legitimate tool of debate - it wins debates ... yes, but the intent of the discussion is then lost - and the ego wins again.

 

How is bringing in the topic of abortion going to address the topic of putting assault weapons in the hands of school teachers ... effectively encouraging violence as a response to violence?

 

It does not address this issue, and cannot - the issue of death-by-abortion is an attempt to introduce a sub-topic and I cry foul!

 

Get back to the topic.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Ingot54

[SunTrader 10]

I don't appreciate .......

I don't appreciate wanton violence portrayed in Hollywood movies, X-box games and in the minds of many gun collectors. Bushmaster ad slogan "Consider your man card reissued" which they have now taken down off their site. Wonder why?

 

If I had the final say, which obviously I don't nor anyone else in this fu@#ed up world, would ban MOST guns - not just assault, semi-assault, pseudo-assault guns.

 

No condescension just opinion, like everyone else.

[smmatrix 11]

 

Introducing a red herring (abortion) instead of staying with the topic is not a legitimate tool of debate - it wins debates ... yes, but the intent of the discussion is then lost - and the ego wins again.

 

How is bringing in the topic of abortion going to address the topic of putting assault weapons in the hands of school teachers ... effectively encouraging violence as a response to violence?

 

Get back to the topic.

 

I responded to your repeated questions regarding love. I'm sorry if my answer doesn't appease you and now you're crying foul to get back on topic. I understand dead babies are not things the lib-nuts rather discuss in the same context as love.

 

We can get back on topic.

[jimbo320 10]

Being outside the USA I sincerely hope you can come to some meaningful progress on restriction of access of firearms.

It is so sad to see a stream of massacres, from what I can see is unrestricted access to firearms, from your shores.

[Colonel B 10]

Seems like there is alot of passion on this topic. Is there any data or studies or any fact linking a decrease in violence and or violence in schools with guns in conjunction with an increase in gun laws and and or gun restrictions? How do we know that an increase in gun laws will directly decrease gun violence? Do states that have stricter gun laws have proportionate to a lower gun violence rate? Are there any facts or just assumptions and opinions?

 

Seems like the thread slid into abortion, God, and gun control with 2 hands. Did the state that this latest tragedy happen have gun laws that allow you to walk into a gas station buy a pack of smokes and an AK? Was it a state that had similar laws to most of the states. Are the laws more restrictive then most states?

 

Is it possible that an increase in gun legislation has little or no effect on violence? DO other countries that have stricter gun laws have lower violence? Or do they just have lower gun violence?

 

Can some one link the studies to the facts?

[SunTrader 10]

Tams, you must not know your firearms. Those weapons in your image are fully automatic weapons and are NOT legal in the USA. And, yes, that junk food garbage should be illegal in the US because the sheeple will eat anything sold.

Wrong.

 

They are not legal for new purchases.

 

They are legal by those who had already owned them before legislation outlawed them and can actually still be sold to others if need is shown and proper licensing are obtained to effect ownership change.

 

Of course it is probably a snowball's chance in he!! someone would acknowledge owning such weapons and also that they would like the government's blessing to sell them to someone else.

 

George Carlin - said something like "ban toys guns but allow the real ones. Insane".

[SunTrader 10]

Seems like there is alot of passion on this topic. Is there any data or studies or any fact .......

Gun nuts like to point out high gun murder rates in cities like Chicago and Washington, DC with tough guns laws.

 

In isolation it is hard to point to studies and say a ha. See it works. Oh no it doesn't.

 

Guns don't stop at city and state borders because of a law on the books.

 

If anything they move into areas that are restricted same as the bootleggers during prohibition.

[MightyMouse 12]

I responded to your repeated questions regarding love. I'm sorry if my answer doesn't appease you and now you're crying foul to get back on topic. I understand dead babies are not things the lib-nuts rather discuss in the same context as love.

 

We can get back on topic.

 

Gun control is not a conservative/liberal issue.

[Colonel B 10]

Gun nuts like to point out high gun murder rates in cities like Chicago and Washington, DC with tough guns laws.

 

In isolation it is hard to point to studies and say a ha. See it works. Oh no it doesn't.

 

Guns don't stop at city and state borders because of a law on the books.

 

If anything they move into areas that are restricted same as the bootleggers during prohibition.

 

Right, Gun Nuts. We don't want to hear from them. We (or at least I do) want creditable sources that have at least attempted to discover the facts pertaining to the topics.

 

So if its like bootleggers during prohibition then we all know how that ended. It ended with an amendment to the constitution I believe.

 

It seems that a consequences at this point is more guns on the street. I would be willing to bet that an unintended consequence of this whole situation is more people carrying guns and more opportunity for folks that shouldn't have access to them. I have seen a bunch of stories about the increase of gun sales and magazine sales from many different news sources. They all point to the fear that Obama will crack down hard on gun control. So it appears at least at this point that a crack down is at least at this point having the opposite intended effect.

[Colonel B 10]

Here is one from Bloomberg.

 

Guns Out of Stock at Wal-Mart as Magazine Prices Surge on - Bloomberg

[Tams 20]

 

If the lib-nuts really did care about love and compassion, they would speak up against the real atrocities going on with the children, rather than trying to take guns away from law abiding citizens.

 

 

 

LOL... then why do you need to arm to the teeth to protect yourself from a 280lb intruder in the middle of the night? That ain't going to happen to you. There is no chance in hell that is going to happen to you... your "fear" is unfounded, according to your stats. You are more likely to have died before you were born !!!

[SunTrader 10]

... . You are more likely to have died before you were born !!!

.

[Tams 20]

Seems like there is alot of passion on this topic. Is there any data or studies or any fact linking a decrease in violence and or violence in schools with guns in conjunction with an increase in gun laws and and or gun restrictions? How do we know that an increase in gun laws will directly decrease gun violence? Do states that have stricter gun laws have proportionate to a lower gun violence rate? Are there any facts or just assumptions and opinions?

 

Seems like the thread slid into abortion, God, and gun control with 2 hands. Did the state that this latest tragedy happen have gun laws that allow you to walk into a gas station buy a pack of smokes and an AK? Was it a state that had similar laws to most of the states. Are the laws more restrictive then most states?

 

Is it possible that an increase in gun legislation has little or no effect on violence? DO other countries that have stricter gun laws have lower violence? Or do they just have lower gun violence?

 

Can some one link the studies to the facts?

 

we are one confused bunch of cookies

Edited December 20, 2012 by Tams

[Colonel B 10]

Yes I can see how my questions can seem confusing. It is kind of funny asking for facts from irrational people who seem bent on pushing opinions as facts.

 

Also kind of an oxymoron to ask anyone on TL to produce facts to back up opinions. But hey I thought it was worth a try.

[Colonel B 10]

All I know is that I want to get one of these ===> :helloooo:

[SunTrader 10]

Yes I can see how my questions can seem confusing. It is kind of funny asking for facts from irrational people who seem bent on pushing opinions as facts.

 

Also kind of an oxymoron to ask anyone on TL to produce facts to back up opinions. But hey I thought it was worth a try.

 

You want facts. Lead by example.

[Colonel B 10]

LOL funny how when you ask a few questions people get offended. LOL I did post some already. Why don't you go and read the ones I posted. Or not and continue to be ignorant.

[Colonel B 10]

Right, Gun Nuts. We don't want to hear from them. We (or at least I do) want creditable sources that have at least attempted to discover the facts pertaining to the topics.

 

So if its like bootleggers during prohibition then we all know how that ended. It ended with an amendment to the constitution I believe.

 

It seems that a consequences at this point is more guns on the street. I would be willing to bet that an unintended consequence of this whole situation is more people carrying guns and more opportunity for folks that shouldn't have access to them. I have seen a bunch of stories about the increase of gun sales and magazine sales from many different news sources. They all point to the fear that Obama will crack down hard on gun control. So it appears at least at this point that a crack down is at least at this point having the opposite intended effect.

 

Hate to quote myself but apparently I have to lead by example....... again

[Colonel B 10]

Here is one from Bloomberg.

 

Guns Out of Stock at Wal-Mart as Magazine Prices Surge on - Bloomberg

 

Here is the story followup. I will post it again because its clear you missed it the first time.

 

Guns Sold Out at Wal-Mart as Ammo Surge on E-Bay - Bloomberg

[SunTrader 10]

LOL funny how when you ask a few questions people get offended. LOL I did post some already. Why don't you go and read the ones I posted. Or not and continue to be ignorant.

I suppose crackhead Charlie Sheen thinks a Bloomberg news article passing for facts these days too.

[Tams 20]

I suppose crackhead Charlie Sheen thinks a Bloomberg news article passing for facts these days too.

 

LOL... TL ppl made millions on Bloomberg news. We have been missing the boat. :doh:

[Tams 20]

[Tams 20]