To Arm or to Disarm.

[smmatrix 11]

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

 

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

 

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million!!!

 

You won't see this data from the left wing lib-nuts, US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

 

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

 

With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

 

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

[smmatrix 11]

[zdo 20]

I live miles from where the tragic event took place. My children were in lock down on Friday and again today. It is difficult to begin to explain the terror and feeling of loss that surrounds the area.

 

 

Re: “it’s difficult to begin to explain the terror and feeling of loss… ” Thank you for sharing. I can empathize some with the close proximity of it. My best friend was killed in a hunting accident when he was 5 years old… we were born 5 days apart… the adults didn’t help me resolve it very well… needless to say, I don’t exactly ‘relish’ guns and shooting… even though I’m a primitive "fearful gun nut" to most of ya’ll. To tell you the truth, I had never quite gotten over Columbine. For whatever reasons , Virginia Tech impacted me to a lesser degree – but still also went deep. What went down at Sandy Hook is inconceivable and senseless. The thought of precious, innocent little five years olds getting blown away is just horrible, senseless insanity on a mission.

 

In my view, the mother’s role is rising into prominence – not just by irresponsibly allowing a ‘DSM labeled’ person easy access to the weapons - but beyond that, her lifelong approach to him and family, failure to make sure he was in full professional care when apparently she had the means, etc... points to her dynamics and part in it.

 

But, none of this or anything else we could say or think moves this event away from totally senseless though.

We can discuss causes, preventions, ‘solutions’, politicizing, etc. later… when less reactive…

Thoughts and 'prayers' with the mothers and fathers and siblings of those kids...

 

zdo

[MightyMouse 12]

 

You need to get you head out of the stone ages. Your history is, well, history. Times have changed. Our govt has weapons that are incredulously lethal. "Metal Storm" can fire 16,000 rounds a second. Yes a second. It also fires 250,000 exploding grenades a minute. In the time it takes you to read this post, they could take out an entire brigade of tanks. Good luck defending yourself with your bushmaster or a 9mm pistol. Your forefathers had no concept of today's weapons.

[smmatrix 11]

You need to get you head out of the stone ages. Your history is, well, history. Times have changed. Our govt has weapons that are incredulously lethal. "Metal Storm" can fire 16,000 rounds a second. Yes a second. It also fires 250,000 exploding grenades a minute. In the time it takes you to read this post, they could take out an entire brigade of tanks. Good luck defending yourself with your bushmaster or a 9mm pistol. Your forefathers had no concept of today's weapons.

 

the concept of arming yourself is to protect yourself against left-wing lunatic nut cases. I doubt if my AR-15 will be needed to defend myself against anti-ballistic missile batteries.

[MightyMouse 12]

Re: “it’s difficult to begin to explain the terror and feeling of loss… ” Thank you for sharing. I can empathize some with the close proximity of it. My best friend was killed in a hunting accident when he was 5 years old… we were born 5 days apart… the adults didn’t help me resolve it very well… needless to say, I don’t exactly ‘relish’ guns and shooting… even though I’m a primitive "fearful gun nut" to most of ya’ll. To tell you the truth, I had never quite gotten over Columbine. For whatever reasons , Virginia Tech impacted me to a lesser degree – but still also went deep. What went down at Sandy Hook is inconceivable and senseless. The thought of precious, innocent little five years olds getting blown away is just horrible, senseless insanity on a mission.

 

In my view, the mother’s role is rising into prominence – not just by irresponsibly allowing a ‘DSM labeled’ person easy access to the weapons - but beyond that, her lifelong approach to him and family, failure to make sure he was in full professional care when apparently she had the means, etc... points to her dynamics and part in it.

 

But, none of this or anything else we could say or think moves this event away from totally senseless though.

We can discuss causes, preventions, ‘solutions’, politicizing, etc. later… when less reactive…

Thoughts and 'prayers' with the mothers and fathers and siblings of those kids...

 

zdo

 

How do you keep irresponsible people who are also law abiding citizens from having guns?

 

I know we have laws, but I am all for more and more laws to make it difficult and tedious to get a firearm.

[smmatrix 11]

-

Duhhhh....

 

[DbPhoenix 42]

the concept of arming yourself is to protect yourself against left-wing lunatic nut cases.

 

As opposed to right-wing lunatic nut cases

 

Db

[SIUYA 11]

Symmatrix - i think the US has the highest rate even if the Swiss are up there.

 

I also understand that China has the highest number of chopsticks per person, very few people die from chopstick use and therefore you can draw you own conclusions.

Rattling off a bunch of stats to push a point without taking into consideration other issues probably does not help.

Countries such as Rwanda did not have a bunch of guns when genocide occurred there - imagine if they did have the guns. Some of the most dangerous places in the world do not have many guns - what you are saying is that those places will become far less dangerous if every one there was armed.

 

Why cant gun control in the USA mean restrictions of the types of guns v total elimination or guns from individual control?

 

So are you a campaigner to disarm the government, the army and the government controlled militias?

It seems that those who fought for individuals to the rights to bear arms did it to protect against the potential tyranny of the government. With a well armed government i would think you are looking to ensure that they being disarmed is part of the equation?

 

Take it a step further - I hope that you are a fervent believer that any country that 'feels' it has been attacked by the US government is completely justified in fighting back with any means at its disposal......if not what are you supporting - the rights of some people but not others?

plus - on seeing the heroin picture - yep - legalise it - I am sure you support that also.

more fuel.

[smmatrix 11]

This is so ridiculous, I couldn't think of anywhere to post it!

 

It really belongs on "Jackass ... Part 27"

 

 

Why is it so ridiculous? It's happened many times previously. Here's a short list of some recent events:

 

• On Oct. 1, 1997, Luke Woodham, 16, part of a satanic cult, stabbed and bludgeoned his mother before driving her car to Pearl High School in Pearl, Miss., where he shot dead two students and wounded seven others with a rifle he made no attempt to conceal. He then got back into his mother’s car and planned to go to Pearl Junior High School to kill some more. But assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieved a .45-caliber pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham.

 

• On Jan. 16, 2002, Peter Odighizuwa, 43, of Nigeria, went to the Appalachian School of Law campus in Virginia with a handgun and killed three and wounded three others. At the sound of gunfire, two other students – both police officers – retrieved guns from their cars. Meanwhile, another police officer and former Marine jumped Odighizuwa and disarmed him by the time the other officers got to the scene.

 

• On Aug. 23, 1995, a band of crack cocaine addicts entered a store in Muskegon, Mich., with a plan to kill everyone and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their habit. One member of the gang shot store owner Clare Cooper in the back four times. He still managed to grab his shotgun and fire on the gang as they fled. They were all apprehended.

 

• On Dec. 9, 2007, a 24-year-old gunman named Matthew Murray launched an attack on the congregants of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs that left two victims dead. A former police officer, Jeanne Assam, a member of the security team for the church, shot Murray 10 times, killing him, as he was shooting at her. Murray had killed four others at a church 70 miles away earlier in the day.

 

• On July 24, 2012, Richard Gable Stevens rented a rifle at a shooting range in Santa Clara, Calif., and herded three employees out the door, saying he intended to kill them. One of the employees, however, was carrying a .45-caliber handgun and shot the assailant.

 

• On Dec. 17, 1991, two men armed with stolen pistols herded 20 customers and employees of a Shoney’s restaurant in Anniston, Ala., into a walk-in refrigerator and locked it so they could rob the establishment. However, one customer was armed with a .45-caliber handgun hidden under a table. He shot one of the gunmen dead. The other robber, who was holding the manager of the restaurant at gunpoint, began firing at the customer. But he was wounded critically by return fire, ending the incident.

 

• On July 13, 2009, an armed man entered the Golden Food Market in south Richmond, shooting and wounding a clerk while firing at store patrons. He was shot by another customer who had a concealed-carry permit, likely saving the lives of eight other people in the store.

 

• On July 29, 2012, Charles Conner shot and killed two people and their dogs at the Peach Tree RV park in Early, Texas. Vic Stacy got a call from one of the neighbors, got his .357 magnum and shot Conner in the leg. Police arrived before any further killings could take place.

 

The point is that often mass murders are averted by armed civilians.

[DbPhoenix 42]

Utah Fox affiliate Fox 13 reported that yesterday, a sixth grade student brought a .22-caliber pistol to West Kearns Elementary School, claiming that his parents encouraged him to bring the gun along as protection in response to the Newtown, Conn., shootings. He reportedly showed it to one of his classmates during recess. Sixth grader Isabel Rios said, “At recess, he pointed a gun to my head and said he was going to kill me.”

 

Now if only little Isabel had been carrying as well, the two could have had a showdown right then and there on the playground.

 

Problem solved.

 

Db

[smmatrix 11]

Utah Fox affiliate Fox 13 reported that yesterday, a sixth grade student brought a .22-caliber pistol to West Kearns Elementary School, claiming that his parents encouraged him to bring the gun along as protection in response to the Newtown, Conn., shootings. He reportedly showed it to one of his classmates during recess. Sixth grader Isabel Rios said, “At recess, he pointed a gun to my head and said he was going to kill me.”

 

Now if only little Isabel had been carrying as well, the two could have had a showdown right then and there on the playground.

 

Problem solved.

 

Db

 

Not a good idea for children to carry guns, and good parenting begins in the home, not Gov't mandates.

 

However, if that sicko 6th grade student or its parent would have pulled the trigger, I sure hope the teacher would have pulled their glock and put a bullet right between his beety eyes.

[DbPhoenix 42]

Not a good idea for children to carry guns, and good parenting begins in the home, not Gov't mandates.

 

However, if that sicko 6th grade student or its parent would have pulled the trigger, I sure hope the teacher would have pulled their glock and put a bullet right between his beety eyes.

 

Why not? Children have rights too. If they're old enough to walk unaided, they're old enough to carry. How else will they protect themselves from those badly-parented children who do carry?

 

And it's "beady".

 

Db

[smmatrix 11]

Why not? Children have rights too. If they're old enough to walk unaided, they're old enough to carry. How else will they protect themselves from those badly-parented children who do carry?

 

And it's "beady".

 

Db

 

No, Children do not have rights. That's the friggin problem today... most don't have respect for their elders.

[smmatrix 11]

When I grew up, Parents were allowed to discipline us without the threat of being arrested because of ridiculous laws which may have intended to cut down on child abuse but statistics show it has only made it worse. When I grew up, law makers didn't think it was acceptable or imaginable that an educator could help get a 13 year old girl an abortion without parent consent. When I grew up it was still acceptable to be proud of the religion you chose and/or the political party you sided with. When I grew up you were afraid of disappointing your Parents or your Teachers or hurting someones feelings. When I grew up we were held responsible for our actions not taught someone else is always to blame. When I grew up Parents, Teachers and Religious leaders worked together to help Children succeed, Doctors didn't automatically write a prescription. When I grew up, we were always taught how proud we should be to be Americans and love and respect our fellow men but also, when I grew up I didn't witness the Country uniting ONLY during a tragedy and then go back to mean, hateful ways after the dust settled.

[smmatrix 11]

When I grew up, my parents never thought to encourage us to stay indoors on a perfectly good day. In fact, they threw us out and told us to go play with our friends, which we did... and didn't have to pay to join a league in order to play baseball. When we grew up, we were scared of the other adults in the neighborhood because every one of them knew my parents very well. When we grew up, we never got special prizes for doing something half-assed.. or got parties for graduating Kindergarten... in fact, we didn't graduate Kindergarten... we just made it to 1st Grade.

[smmatrix 11]

When I grew up, you never had people going in and shooting up a school or mall. Discipline was present in the homes and schools. Now, too many times, kids are given prescriptions to help them behave. I've always wondered how many of these kids could be helped with consequences for their behavior instead of diagnoses and drugs.

Edited December 18, 2012 by smmatrix

[Tams 20]

I lived in the states for a bit (in various states including ca and az), I don't like the gun zealots, they are no different than the religious zealots; they are a bunch of self-righteous bigots: They are right and everybody is wrong. There is no use discussing anything that they hold dear to. Nobody is listening, and nobody is considering other side's view. The only time people will agree is when both of them are dusts.

[MightyMouse 12]

Why is it so ridiculous? It's happened many times previously. Here's a short list of some recent events:

 

• On Oct. 1, 1997, Luke Woodham, 16, part of a satanic cult, stabbed and bludgeoned his mother before driving her car to Pearl High School in Pearl, Miss., where he shot dead two students and wounded seven others with a rifle he made no attempt to conceal. He then got back into his mother’s car and planned to go to Pearl Junior High School to kill some more. But assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieved a .45-caliber pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham.

 

• On Jan. 16, 2002, Peter Odighizuwa, 43, of Nigeria, went to the Appalachian School of Law campus in Virginia with a handgun and killed three and wounded three others. At the sound of gunfire, two other students – both police officers – retrieved guns from their cars. Meanwhile, another police officer and former Marine jumped Odighizuwa and disarmed him by the time the other officers got to the scene.

 

• On Aug. 23, 1995, a band of crack cocaine addicts entered a store in Muskegon, Mich., with a plan to kill everyone and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their habit. One member of the gang shot store owner Clare Cooper in the back four times. He still managed to grab his shotgun and fire on the gang as they fled. They were all apprehended.

 

• On Dec. 9, 2007, a 24-year-old gunman named Matthew Murray launched an attack on the congregants of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs that left two victims dead. A former police officer, Jeanne Assam, a member of the security team for the church, shot Murray 10 times, killing him, as he was shooting at her. Murray had killed four others at a church 70 miles away earlier in the day.

 

• On July 24, 2012, Richard Gable Stevens rented a rifle at a shooting range in Santa Clara, Calif., and herded three employees out the door, saying he intended to kill them. One of the employees, however, was carrying a .45-caliber handgun and shot the assailant.

 

• On Dec. 17, 1991, two men armed with stolen pistols herded 20 customers and employees of a Shoney’s restaurant in Anniston, Ala., into a walk-in refrigerator and locked it so they could rob the establishment. However, one customer was armed with a .45-caliber handgun hidden under a table. He shot one of the gunmen dead. The other robber, who was holding the manager of the restaurant at gunpoint, began firing at the customer. But he was wounded critically by return fire, ending the incident.

 

• On July 13, 2009, an armed man entered the Golden Food Market in south Richmond, shooting and wounding a clerk while firing at store patrons. He was shot by another customer who had a concealed-carry permit, likely saving the lives of eight other people in the store.

 

• On July 29, 2012, Charles Conner shot and killed two people and their dogs at the Peach Tree RV park in Early, Texas. Vic Stacy got a call from one of the neighbors, got his .357 magnum and shot Conner in the leg. Police arrived before any further killings could take place.

 

The point is that often mass murders are averted by armed civilians.

 

Simply awesome!!!

All but one used legally purchased hand guns. Would it make sense to make guns illegal so that they are less available? That would only make sense if you were sane. If they were less available, the the list would have only one name on it.

[MightyMouse 12]

When I grew up, Parents were allowed to discipline us without the threat of being arrested because of ridiculous laws which may have intended to cut down on child abuse but statistics show it has only made it worse. When I grew up, law makers didn't think it was acceptable or imaginable that an educator could help get a 13 year old girl an abortion without parent consent. When I grew up it was still acceptable to be proud of the religion you chose and/or the political party you sided with. When I grew up you were afraid of disappointing your Parents or your Teachers or hurting someones feelings. When I grew up we were held responsible for our actions not taught someone else is always to blame. When I grew up Parents, Teachers and Religious leaders worked together to help Children succeed, Doctors didn't automatically write a prescription. When I grew up, we were always taught how proud we should be to be Americans and love and respect our fellow men but also, when I grew up I didn't witness the Country uniting ONLY during a tragedy and then go back to mean, hateful ways after the dust settled.

Where did you grow up?

[johnw 10]

Not a good idea for children to carry guns, and good parenting begins in the home, not Gov't mandates.

 

 

Adam Lanza's Mother thought she was offering good parenting when she took Adam to the shooting range for lessons ....

Look how that turned out.

[smmatrix 11]

Simply awesome!!!

All but one used legally purchased hand guns. Would it make sense to make guns illegal so that they are less available? That would only make sense if you were sane. If they were less available, the the list would have only one name on it.

 

Yup, we already know what its like to ban all weapons and make them less available as you put it. Look at Chicago where weapons are banned (less available). I think its a good place to check your theory:

 

Chicago (Obama's home town) has the highest gun crime rates in the Untied States!

 

Same thing happened in England... guns were banned, and gun crimes rates soared. Pow!

 

Lastly, you made a point of mentioning they were legal firearms. Correct! That's the intention!! I'm for legal firearms. I never mentioned we all should be armed with illegal firearms.

Edited December 18, 2012 by smmatrix

[smmatrix 11]

Where did you grow up?

 

I grew up in Indiana. Graduated Indiana University. Spent 6 years in the Marine Corps. Have since lived the last five years in Asia (China, Philippines and Hong Kong). Back in Vegas now.

 

Did the way I grow up differ from many others here? I think we mostly all are all intelligent here and independent thinkers. Some will be pawns of the liberal media, but most of us are smart methinks.

 

Just question everything!!

[DbPhoenix 42]

No, Children do not have rights. That's the friggin problem today... most don't have respect for their elders.

 

You mean like the guy in Newtown who stole his mother's guns and shot her in the head four times?

 

No respect at all.

 

Db

[MightyMouse 12]

Yup, we already know what its like to ban all weapons and make them less available as you put it. Look at Chicago where weapons are banned (less available). I think its a good place to check your theory:

 

Chicago (Obama's home town) has the highest gun crime rates in the Untied States!

 

Same thing happened in England... guns were banned, and gun crimes rates soared. Pow!

 

Lastly, you made a point of mentioning they were legal firearms. Correct! That's the intention!! I'm for legal firearms. I never mentioned we all should be armed with illegal firearms.

Chicago crime with guns is among criminals. Criminals kill criminals all the time. I went to school in what amounts to south Harlem. Many people died in Harlem during my 4 years there. I was not a part of the crime scene and never once had a situation where I would have been better off with a gun nor was I ever robbed or attempted to be robbed, etc. New York is as Liberal Town as Chicago. I wasn't lucky. Many people are still there and can also make the same exact claim.

 

You quickly turn it into a liberal and conservative thing. I am far from liberal and more conservative than any republican that I know. Just because someone doesn't support the NRA does not mean he is Liberal. Not sure if you can grasp that.