30 Year Bond and 10 Year Note

[Predictor 11]

I wanted to get feedback from anyone actively trading or especially day trading these products. I've never really looked at the bonds. But, I've heard they can be good day trading instruments.

 

How do they compare in terms of margin, risk, movement to the ES? To CL?

[wrbtrader 10]

Retail traders that trade Emini ES futures or Light Crude Oil CL futures will tend to day trade them. Yet, the few that swing trade them, they tend to hold them less than a month.

 

In contrast, retail traders that trade Treasury futures will tend to swing trade or position trade them. Its rare to meet a retail trader that day trades Treasury futures. In addition, I notice that traders of Treasury futures tend to manage their margin and risk much better in comparison to ES and CL traders.

 

There's just something about Treasury futures that tells folks to "take it easy". :missy:

[TheDude 10]

Most retail traders wont go near them because they dont think like traders - they think like gamblers. They want vol and fast money offered by ES, CL etc.

 

As WRB says - notes & bonds are more steady, easier to figure out, less risky/whippy, and most importantly, much cheaper to trade. The bigger tick size is also an added bonus most overlook. The relationships along the yield curve are much easier to spot than the correlations between the energy or equity complex.

 

Notes and bonds can also be spread against each other (how most institutions trade them) - even on an intraday basis. A sure 4 ticks with a 10 lot is just too boring when you can try and get 40 ticks on a coin flip in CL right?

 

European treasuries on the other hand are quite different these days. Although Eurex products are exceptionally cheap to trade, the bund is like crystal meth on crack after a night on angel dust! it used to be 2000 up on both sides, now its like 200 up - and as soon as they are pulled or lifted, the next 4 prices are also pulled. Widow maker!

Edited December 7, 2012 by TheDude

[boofis 10]

They're a great trade that require patience and a keen eye.

I'm mostly a 'scalper' (DOM) of sorts during the US day session but then I keep a position on nearly constantly to try and enjoy the longer term moves which can take place.

Trade a 1000 lot limit order spec, not many markets can offer that (And no I don't trade that size haha)