Trading Contest Discussion

[Ingot54 13]

I often see several of the great traders on this forum off-handedly "throw crumbs to the chooks" when asked trading questions.

 

They will either not share their strategy, or if they will, they simply point casually to the fact that "somewhere on this forum" they have a thread that is 620,000 posts long, that discusses "their method".

 

I think that is wrong. We were all newbies once, and clearly 75% of us still struggle.

 

See screen shot below:

 

If someone asks me, I will tell them how to trade.

I can tell them.

And I will tell them.

 

But I am unable to post that information on the forum, because it is not mine to give away publicly.

 

I am unable to say more.

 

Thank you for your time in reading this thread.

 

EDIT: The information is free - it will cost you nothing. This is a promise.

[4EverMaAT 10]

The point is that a handful of us contest the right to brag every month or two, as being "the best" trader for that time.

 

I mentioned account balance as being the measure of success, and this is totally wrong.

 

This is what causes traders to fail - stretching their resources, both mentally and financially to breaking point ... failure. How many traders were close to leading at some point, but bombed out dismally at the end?

 

Their failure has N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with "damaged psychology" in any way - it is simply that traders are not encouraged to trade the way their strategy was designed to trade. The contest on its own is attempting to force traders to win the chocolates with big trades, instead of smart trades.

 

What I am getting at is the contest is not good for trading as it stands.

 

What I propose is a contest where traders have to win pips ... not dollars ... as a measure of prowess ... and yes - bragging rights.

 

If you look at my 166% gain to win last month's contest, some might say "welldone" for the effort. The truth is the opposite - it was nothing more than a calculated gamble to earn me the right to make this post. (See posts #578 and 581):

.......

 

One of the problems I see with the current format for trading competitions/contests, is that "success" is based on opening and closing balances

 

This situation is hollow ... false ... wrong ... and a perfect example of how NOT to try to trade.

 

Yet - here we are encouraging each other to "excel" at trading by earning bragging rights.

 

I stated earlier that I had discovered my personal Holy Grail (see post #546 here):

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/forex-trading-laboratory/9303-traders-laboratory-forex-trading-contest-18.html

 

This is Traders Laboratory but it might well be called "Trader's Smorgasbord" unless we truly get down and dirty, and look at how we are approaching trading.

 

Look, can I just say right here and now that most of have had the fabled chalice (Holy Grail) in our grasp at some point in our journeys. That has to be a fact, because we continue to believe in something that we have seen that urges us onwards and upwards. Otherwise, without some hint of what is possible at the personal level, we would have (should have) abandoned trading long ago.

 

Is anyone so foolish as to continue losing money without any hope of one day surviving and prospering in this?

 

No.

 

And that "no" is qualified only by the inclusion of the word "hope" in that sentence.

 

So what is my point here?

 

Ingot,

 

What you say is so profound it should be made a sticky. And I'm glad you had the maturity to do this, instead of gloat in the limelight. I mentioned earlier in the contest thread about Varengold bank implementing a transparent Risk-Adjusted ROI to encourage traders to trade just as they would on a live account, and not just aim for the highest gross ROI.

(Post 222-230 discusses the concept. The formula is linked to in post #225)

 

MyFxBook has actually acknowledged the need for some additional rules to prevent the free-for-all / all in approaches that many traders are using to win (luck). They would never trade real money that way. These type of transformations will encourage the retail forex industry to have a more professional approach.

 

Because the ignorant are attracted to large gains instead of implementing [complete] systematic approaches to extracting profits from the markets (which does require taking some risks), they develop this loser mentality where they practice "wanting" to make money in the markets. So it is no surprise that they end up with only wanting, never actually finding the strategies necessary for consistent profits. These losers are particularly fond of ambiguous advice, black box systems, and other predictive (mystical) approaches to winning in the forex markets. Taking responsibility and risks in a structured format is hardly ever given any serious consideration. When it is, all kinds of excuses are made to NOT go forward and practice the real strategy.

 

There is also a different type of loser; one who does not want to be successful and also goes around trolling hoping to discourage others from being successful. Comments like "What, do you want to be spoon-fed?" are usually codewords for "I don't know what really works myself, but I don't want to admit it." They probably been burned a few times by some strategies that they thought would work and make assumptions about the whole industry. You hardly ever see these people jump on or congratulate a genuine strategy when it is available, because they too are afraid to take the risk.

 

In regards to sharing a strategy for free, I think it is honorable. I've done so already, and revealed a true price action measurement tool. But the most interesting thing I noticed is that there is a clear distinction between those who do pay for your time vs those who are freebies. The ones who pay tend to be the ones that will make productive use of their own time and yours. I noticed a disproportionate amount of freeloaders consuming most of the time I was spending in the day.

 

So one piece of advice would be to make sure you structure your schedule and information layout so that when you do offer something for free, it will also add value automatically. Like youtube videos and screenshots to illustrate how you lay out your strategy.

 

But back to the discarding the loser mentality. The key is to see things the way they really are (clearly defined price action), and systematically make a choice (take risks).

[Mysticforex 13]

I don't know if something is screwed up with my demo acct, but the last 2 result posts I made

Have 20 more trades than the previous one yet zero change in results ?

[onemove 10]

As noted on the contest thread, I am doing an experiment to see whether daytrade (Predict account) or swingtrade (my Onemove account) would be more profitable.

 

The daytrade is documented here http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/forex-trading-laboratory/16994-predict-experiment.html.

 

Today was the first day of the August Contest. I meant to take the same trade in my account as in the daytrade account, except hold it for an extended time until the direction changes. However, I already goofed. Price was far from where I intended to enter, but thinking I needed to enter one trade a day I entered a trade in the daytrade account. But then was called away. My buy order in the swing account did not trigger thus no trades today.

Edited August 6, 2013 by onemove

[onemove 10]

Entered long EURUSD @13295

[onemove 10]

Entered long EURUSD @13295

 

Well, that swingtrade was not the ideal entry. Although if I was to make a comparison between the one trade a day daytrade and swingtrade accounts in the August Contest, then I had better start somewhere. I lucked out with this late swing entry on day 2. For the first week results are:

 

Daytrade: +24 pips (5 trades)

Swingtrade: +44 pips (trade still open)

 

From Aug 6 to 9, EURUSD had a 154 pip range. From open to close of this 4 day bar is 83 pips. Thus the swing trade captured less than a third of the swing and approximately half of the effective "body" from open to close.

 

In the same period the day ranges for the EURUSD was 287 pips with effective "body" of 161 pips. Ideally if my skills and timing were correct I would be capturing more pips using the daytrade than the swingtrade. But that has not been the case for this first week. Results might be also skewed here as the daytrade now is only taken in the US session between 09:30 am and 5pm EST. Might be timing or skills, this first week daytrades generated approximately 8% of the cummulative ranges.

Edited August 11, 2013 by onemove

[onemove 10]

8/12/2013 Added one at 1.3293.

[onemove 10]

Week 2:

 

Daytrade: +78 pips (5 trades closed)

Swingtrade: +34 pips (2 trades open)

 

Daytrades captured 17.76% of the sum of the days' ranges at 439 pips

 

Swingtrades captures 45% of the week's range at 75 pips.

 

The swingtrade that was opened in week 1 gave back its profits. However the daily chart was still pointing up, so a second trade was added at the pullback. The second trade was entered too soon as the pullback was much deeper and the swing account spent the majority of the week in drawdown before pulling back into positive territory.

[onemove 10]

Week 3:

 

Daytrade: -18 pips (5 trades closed)

Swingtrade: +5 pips (2 trades open)

 

Losing week on daytrades. The sum of the ranges for the week was 432 pips. Sum of the ranges for the week during the US session was 120 pips, day session ranged from 17 to 38 pips. Clearly I was not able to identify the market state correctly.

 

Swingtrade gained +5 pips for the week, almost at scratch. The week's range was 154 pips. The same two trades remain open with no activities in position changes.

[onemove 10]

Week 4:

 

Daytrade: +20 pips (5 trades closed)

Swingtrade: -79 pips (2 trades open)

 

Daytrades captured 5% of the sum of the days' ranges at 392 pips.

 

Swingtrades week's range at 161 pips. No new trades were added. The open trades lost 49% of the week's range.

 

Total for the contest period in August:

 

Daytrade: +104 pips

Swingtrade: - 80 pips

 

It is too bad that the swingtrade did not do as well as daytrade during this period.

Edited September 3, 2013 by onemove

[kuokam 10]

I get not any news of the contests. A pity, as I was preparing to strongly oppose some people I saw coming back with decision...

Well, wish you all the best!

[Mysticforex 13]

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If we can get 5 entries by the end of this week we can get one going for December.

[4EverMaAT 10]

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If we can get 5 entries by the end of this week we can get one going for December.

 

Where is the contest signup link?

[Mysticforex 13]

Where is the contest signup link?

 

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I am not going to create the link unless we have 5 commitments by weeks end.

[onemove 10]

Are we "signing up" in this thread?

 

I'm in

[Mysticforex 13]

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Ok, that's three.

[4EverMaAT 10]

I thought I replied here. Perhaps you should also post in the other longer contest thread.

 

I would like to participate as well.

[Mysticforex 13]

I thought I replied here. Perhaps you should also post in the other longer contest thread.

 

I would like to participate as well.

 

 

I did. Perhaps I should post here as well

 

 

Back by popular demand ! The Traderslaboratory forex trading contest.

 

 

https://fx2.oanda.com/mod_perl/fxcontest/fxcontest.pl?rm=contestDetails&contestId=3032

[reandre 10]

Can I still join in?

[Mysticforex 13]

Can I still join in?

 

Afraid not. You will have to wait untill the Jan contest.

[com37 10]

Can I still join??

I am In..

[Mysticforex 13]

Can I still join??

I am In..

 

Too late for December. I will start a Jan contest and post the join link in the next few days.

[Mysticforex 13]

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Here id the link to join the Jan 2014 Contest:

 

 

https://fx2.oanda.com/mod_perl/fxcontest/fxcontest.pl?rm=contestDetails&contestId=3092

[Helas 10]

I have read your post and would like to say thanks to you that you share this post here with us. I am totally agree with you and hope that you will continue to post here with us.

[Mysticforex 13]

I have read your post and would like to say thanks to you that you share this post here with us. I am totally agree with you and hope that you will continue to post here with us.

 

 

Helas,

I see this is your first post. I don't know if you are a new member though. We look forward to your continued sharing. Maybe you would join a future contest ?