Trading Contest Discussion

[kuokam 10]

The N/J pair did come back near my first entry level and I jumped back in.

Lets see what happens.

 

You noticedWork on that.

 

Not much to add - you already know ONE problem.

 

If you are trading the daily TF, then why are you looking at the trade other than at the daily candle close?

Same goes for all other TF. Turn the charts and trading platform off, and do something else. Let the trade

develop and breathe as intended. You quoted Livermore ... if you are "right" ... then "sit tight."

 

Often it is not the trade that beats us - we beat ourselves by talking ourselves out of the trade,

because of a simple, natural pullback in price.

 

You found that yourself - "Now out and watching the first idea develop as planned."

[kuokam 10]

Signed in.

Let me be first at some thing here

 

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[Mysticforex 13]

Signed in.

Let me be first at some thing here

 

Yes ! I see that you have. So far it's just me and you.

[kuokam 10]

C'mon Ingot, this is no real bucks. We know you couldn't bet the family's house on one trade. Tell us what happened.

[Ingot54 13]

C'mon Ingot, this is no real bucks. We know you couldn't bet the family's house on one trade. Tell us what happened.

 

1. The trade is waaay over-leveraged

2. The trade is still open

3. Traders who can make pips as opposed to making $$$ will win this contest

4. Traders who can make pips will make the money in the long run

 

If the contest was designed around showing who can make the most pips over time,

the outcome might be different. Regardless, a point is coming where I believe my

trade will came back with a vengeance, and we have the time this month for that

to occur ... or not.

 

As far as the contest goes, my trading is nothing short of cowboy style.

But when trading the daily TF ... you need to define your point at which the trade fails.

My pockets are not deep enough to sustain the kind of losses you see here in the

contest, in live trading.

 

I am trading the EURAUD, which is showing a pullback.

 

My latest entry is at 1.2185 (short)

My point of failure for this trade is 1.2440

And I will have dipped out on draw-down rules before that happens

 

For what it's worth, I take the same trades in my live trading @ $5/pip, but with

60-pip SL and manage them on the 1H or 4H TF as a rule. I closed my live trade

with a $300 loss, and will not trade live until I see the conditions I need once again.

 

The EURAUD could be close to a setup again for a short - I won't know for another

10 or 15 hours, but it should be another nice trade if it eventuates.

 

Let's see.

 

On Wednesday the market did a strange thing ... the EURAD - EURUSD - AUDUSD

all rallied at once. Clearly this could not continue for long, if you know anything about

correlation, and it was the Aussie that got the wobbly knees first. Couldn't find

anything fundamental for the pullback in the AUD, but there is was.

 

A nice bit of arbitrage if anyone spotted that occurrence.

 

Remember what I said in post #16 above:

 

"King of the world"?

 

Maybe ... for this moment only ... so yes, enjoy doing what you came to do.

Savour the moment, and let the success of the moment wipe out earlier pain,

and remind you that trading success IS possible.

 

Next week I may no longer be king, but I shall have the reminder, that with

tight management of my head and best application of my strategy, I will be

positioned to receive whatever the market chooses to put my way.

[Mysticforex 13]

1. The trade is waaay over-leveraged

2. The trade is still open

3. Traders who can make pips as opposed to making $$$ will win this contest

4. Traders who can make pips will make the money in the long run

 

If the contest was designed around showing who can make the most pips over time,

the outcome might be different. Regardless, a point is coming where I believe my

trade will came back with a vengeance, and we have the time this month for that

to occur ... or not.

 

As far as the contest goes, my trading is nothing short of cowboy style.

But when trading the daily TF ... you need to define your point at which the trade fails.

My pockets are not deep enough to sustain the kind of losses you see here in the

contest, in live trading.

 

I am trading the EURAUD, which is showing a pullback.

 

My latest entry is at 1.2185 (short)

My point of failure for this trade is 1.2440

And I will have dipped out on draw-down rules before that happens

 

For what it's worth, I take the same trades in my live trading @ $5/pip, but with

60-pip SL and manage them on the 1H or 4H TF as a rule. I closed my live trade

with a $300 loss, and will not trade live until I see the conditions I need once again.

 

The EURAUD could be close to a setup again for a short - I won't know for another

10 or 15 hours, but it should be another nice trade if it eventuates.

 

Let's see.

 

On Wednesday the market did a strange thing ... the EURAD - EURUSD - AUDUSD

all rallied at once. Clearly this could not continue for long, if you know anything about

correlation, and it was the Aussie that got the wobbly knees first. Couldn't find

anything fundamental for the pullback in the AUD, but there is was.

 

A nice bit of arbitrage if anyone spotted that occurrence.

 

Remember what I said in post #16 above:

 

Ingot,

As I am reading your pos I am looking at a chart of EUR/.4HR tf, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE PAIRFELL OFF A MOUNTAIN !!

 

Maybe I am missing something..

[kuokam 10]

"-How do you differentiate between gold and cocoa in your trading?

-They are both a 1% bet, they are the same to me.

-You mean to tell me that you see no difference between gold and cocoa?"

Larry Hite, market wizard, on the importance of risk management.

 

You frightened me Ingot, with that 255 pips risk on a trade. That's a week's range! But you reassured me that on your live accounts you limit yourself to a 60 pips risk. My average is 40, depending on the pair. We all are making experiments here.

I now understand what you mean by pips result as compared to $$$ but I think that also brings us back to the % debate of earlier in this thread.

You can never be sure of what might happen the second AFTER you got in a trade, but you can always chose the risk amount, zero included. Therefore I believe risk precedes timing.

 

I agree with your analysis, the E/A is clearly in a multi year down trend and you just happened to be on its way for some retracement. Problem is you never know when a retracement will happen nor end.

This might as well be an inverted H+S forming, we are still above the 1.1600 lows.

So, if I were you, I would look out before re entering "with vengeance" .

 

 

 

1. The trade is waaay over-leveraged

2. The trade is still open

3. Traders who can make pips as opposed to making $$$ will win this contest

4. Traders who can make pips will make the money in the long run

 

If the contest was designed around showing who can make the most pips over time,

the outcome might be different. Regardless, a point is coming where I believe my

trade will came back with a vengeance, and we have the time this month for that

to occur ... or not.

 

As far as the contest goes, my trading is nothing short of cowboy style.

But when trading the daily TF ... you need to define your point at which the trade fails.

My pockets are not deep enough to sustain the kind of losses you see here in the

contest, in live trading.

 

I am trading the EURAUD, which is showing a pullback.

 

My latest entry is at 1.2185 (short)

My point of failure for this trade is 1.2440

And I will have dipped out on draw-down rules before that happens

 

For what it's worth, I take the same trades in my live trading @ $5/pip, but with

60-pip SL and manage them on the 1H or 4H TF as a rule. I closed my live trade

with a $300 loss, and will not trade live until I see the conditions I need once again.

 

The EURAUD could be close to a setup again for a short - I won't know for another

10 or 15 hours, but it should be another nice trade if it eventuates.

 

Let's see.

 

On Wednesday the market did a strange thing ... the EURAD - EURUSD - AUDUSD

all rallied at once. Clearly this could not continue for long, if you know anything about

correlation, and it was the Aussie that got the wobbly knees first. Couldn't find

anything fundamental for the pullback in the AUD, but there is was.

 

A nice bit of arbitrage if anyone spotted that occurrence.

 

Remember what I said in post #16 above:

[kuokam 10]

The chart I see here is a 5 min., not 4h.

 

Ingot,

As I am reading your pos I am looking at a chart of EUR/.4HR tf, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE PAIRFELL OFF A MOUNTAIN !!

 

Maybe I am missing something..

[Ingot54 13]

Ingot,

As I am reading your pos I am looking at a chart of EUR/.4HR tf,

AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE PAIRFELL OFF A MOUNTAIN !!

 

Maybe I am missing something..

Mystic - you may be thinking the mountain is the 4H ... but I think it is just a hill.

The mountain you could be looking at is the 5M from your post.

 

I hope my post/chart clarifies what happened - the trade is 5 1/2 days old now ... and I

can see that I have been disqualified. Nevertheless, I remain in that trade, until the end.

 

 

You frightened me Ingot, with that 255 pips risk on a trade. That's a week's range!

But you reassured me that on your live accounts you limit yourself to a 60 pips risk.

My average is 40, depending on the pair. We all are making experiments here.

I now understand what you mean by pips result as compared to $$$ but I think

that also brings us back to the % debate of earlier in this thread.

You can never be sure of what might happen the second AFTER you got in a trade,

but you can always chose the risk amount, zero included. Therefore I believe risk

precedes timing.

 

I agree with your analysis, the E/A is clearly in a multi year down trend and you just

happened to be on its way for some retracement. Problem is you never know when

a retracement will happen nor end.

This might as well be an inverted H+S forming, we are still above the 1.1600 lows.

So, if I were you, I would look out before re entering "with vengeance" .

as mentioned Kuokam, I remain in that trade.

 

It is a legit setup and risk for me, but I blew my opportunity in the contest by the

cowboy tactic of not using position sizing, and going all-in.

 

I will be back into this in my own live trading this coming week, when the parameters

for entry align.

 

Ingot ... no longer king! :rofl:

[GlassOnion 12]

The chart I see here is a 5 min., not 4h.

 

 

Ha ha, your are right. I was ooking at several TFs when trying to figure how ingot went wrong when he shorted.. The 5M got posted. :doh:

[kuokam 10]

Since I am learning so much with all the commentaries here, I have put that pair on my watch list. As Mr Trichet would say "I will be closely monitoring it" and let you know when I trade it.

 

Certainly the hindsight effect or just my platform but it looks like it was a bit oversold when you got in.

 

 

Mystic - you may be thinking the mountain is the 4H ... but I think it is just a hill.

The mountain you could be looking at is the 5M from your post.

 

I hope my post/chart clarifies what happened - the trade is 5 1/2 days old now ... and I

can see that I have been disqualified. Nevertheless, I remain in that trade, until the end.

 

as mentioned Kuokam, I remain in that trade.

 

It is a legit setup and risk for me, but I blew my opportunity in the contest by the

cowboy tactic of not using position sizing, and going all-in.

 

I will be back into this in my own live trading this coming week, when the parameters

for entry align.

 

Ingot ... no longer king! :rofl:

[kuokam 10]

Since I am learning so much with all the commentaries here, I have put that pair on my watch list. As Mr Trichet would say "I will be closely monitoring it" and let you know when I trade it.

 

Update 21/11/2012: Bought 50.000 units at 1.2340, sl 1.2308

[TTony 10]

I have posted The Nov-Dec contest open to join on Oanda.

The start t date will be:Mon. 12/4

The end date will be Thurs Jan 31st.

 

We are a a 2 month contest to compensate for the Holidays.

 

Hi

 

I'm new here.

Can I join this trading contest?

 

 

TT

[Mysticforex 13]

Hi

 

I'm new here.

Can I join this trading contest?

 

 

TT

 

Absolutely !! The November contest is just about over..

The next contest starts Dec 1 and runs for 2 months.

 

You need an Oanda demo acct to join, then go to to the "current contest pages", on the 2nd page you will see wwwtraderslaboratory Dec/Jan contest click join and you are in.

Here's the link :

https://fx2.oanda.com/mod_perl/fxcontest/fxcontest.pl?rm=listContests&sortCriteria=1&page=2

 

Your demo acct will start you with $100K. You can change it if you want to whatever amount you feel comfortable. VERY IMPORTANT!! do not change your acct balance while the contest is under way. Good Luck!

[dwt 10]

I have posted The Nov-Dec contest open to join on Oanda.

The start t date will be:Mon. 12/4

The end date will be Thurs Jan 31st.

 

We are a a 2 month contest to compensate for the Holidays.

A couple quick questions, then:

• I assume you mean 12/3, not Tuesday, 12/4
  
• By "Monday" do you mean 5:00 PM ET Sunday evening? or 12:01 ET Monday morning?
  

Thanks in advance.

 

dwt

[Mysticforex 13]

A couple quick questions, then:

• I assume you mean 12/3, not Tuesday, 12/4
  
• By "Monday" do you mean 5:00 PM ET Sunday evening? or 12:01 ET Monday morning?
  

Thanks in advance.

 

dwt

I guess it has a lot to do with your TZ. I am in EST so the new contest will start on the evening of Sunday Dec.2 and end on Thursday Jan 31st.

[TTony 10]

Absolutely !! The November contest is just about over..

The next contest starts Dec 1 and runs for 2 months.

 

Ok, thanks.

Just registered.

[Ingot54 13]

Continuing the discussion from the Trading Contest thread:

 

Traders Laboratory Forex Trading Contest! - Page 55 - TL - 9303

 

Regarding MT4 platform: I have always found it to be fantastic for charting.

It is possible to create charts of multiple time frames, and have them displayed in one window

on your desktop. The colours and indicators are infinitely tweakable, and many scripts and

Expert Advisors run faultlessly (mostly) on it.

 

The data feed is free, and most strategies can be implemented on it. It is available in demo

account form, and funded live trading form. (I have never used it for live trading.)

 

You can trade on margin from 1:1 to 50:1 to 400:1 (though this level is for gamblers.)

 

There are other things, but we are not here to promote MT4.

 

The problem I had when wanting to move from Oanda standard to Oanda MT4, was that the

setup would not allow me to open the MT4 under my current username. I then had to create a

new account. Currently I have created a sub-account for MT4, but while it appears on the list of

demo accounts on my Oanda standard account, the MT4 format can not be linked... as far as I

have been able to find out.

 

And to complicate matters, even with a new password, I have been unable to log in to the new

account I created for the new username.

 

The MT4 functions of, and is bootable from a desktop icon, like all of them.

 

It just fails (so far) to establish that link to an account registered for the contest.

 

I do not wish to register twice, as it would be construed as a form of cheating, since I would

have 2 usernames. But I do seriously wish to road-test the MT4 under contest conditions.

It would help me control my position sizes and tendency to risk more than I should.

 

I am familiar with the MT4, and trade risk is much more clearly defined at the time the trade entered.

One tends to trade the same way used in one's live trading.

[kuokam 10]

Looks like nobody has done it here. Have you tried with their "ask us a question" feature? It might just be that the link doesn't exist. I am completely helpless re. Mt4.

 

As for position sizing, the heaviest I have so far taken is 200.000 units.

 

 

 

Continuing the discussion from the Trading Contest thread:

 

Traders Laboratory Forex Trading Contest! - Page 55 - TL - 9303

 

Regarding MT4 platform: I have always found it to be fantastic for charting.

It is possible to create charts of multiple time frames, and have them displayed in one window

on your desktop. The colours and indicators are infinitely tweakable, and many scripts and

Expert Advisors run faultlessly (mostly) on it.

 

The data feed is free, and most strategies can be implemented on it. It is available in demo

account form, and funded live trading form. (I have never used it for live trading.)

 

You can trade on margin from 1:1 to 50:1 to 400:1 (though this level is for gamblers.)

 

There are other things, but we are not here to promote MT4.

 

The problem I had when wanting to move from Oanda standard to Oanda MT4, was that the

setup would not allow me to open the MT4 under my current username. I then had to create a

new account. Currently I have created a sub-account for MT4, but while it appears on the list of

demo accounts on my Oanda standard account, the MT4 format can not be linked... as far as I

have been able to find out.

 

And to complicate matters, even with a new password, I have been unable to log in to the new

account I created for the new username.

 

The MT4 functions of, and is bootable from a desktop icon, like all of them.

 

It just fails (so far) to establish that link to an account registered for the contest.

 

I do not wish to register twice, as it would be construed as a form of cheating, since I would

have 2 usernames. But I do seriously wish to road-test the MT4 under contest conditions.

It would help me control my position sizes and tendency to risk more than I should.

 

I am familiar with the MT4, and trade risk is much more clearly defined at the time the trade entered.

One tends to trade the same way used in one's live trading.

[Ingot54 13]

Looks like nobody has done it here. Have you tried with their "ask us a question" feature?

It might just be that the link doesn't exist. I am completely helpless re. Mt4.

 

As for position sizing, the heaviest I have so far taken is 200.000 units.

Yes mate - I have spoken to Oanda "chat" and they advised me to get in touch with frontdesk.

They say "1 or 2 business days" so it looks like if I am to joint the contest I will have to do it with the old Oanda a/c.

 

I am road testing a revised strategy - best suited to MT4 because of the brilliant charting capabilities.

[onemove 10]

 

As for position sizing, the heaviest I have so far taken is 200.000 units.

 

Kuokam, which pairs were you trading? And how long are your hold times?

[kuokam 10]

I had small losses in gold and G/A.The pair that succeeded was N/J. Was in for two weeks, then could no longer resist the massive gain pressure and trailed the stop too close and it got triggered.

In retrospect I am wondering if I should not have added to the position instead. It is up 100 more pips since I went out. Another "sit tight" occasion missed.

 

 

Kuokam, which pairs were you trading? And how long are your hold times?

[TTony 10]

Wow optiontimer, down 10% in one day and back again next day.

Do you trade real account with same risk?

 

Is there a max DD rule for this contest?

[optiontimer 10]

Wow optiontimer, down 10% in one day and back again next day.

Do you trade real account with same risk?

 

Is there a max DD rule for this contest?

 

I think they run a max 20% drawdown or some such. It was a rule argued for by a phony poster who knows nothing of real trading and never even stepped up to participate in the contest.

 

Trading is a "long run" game, and even the best approach will suffer larger than normal yet not unexpected drawdowns at the hands of the approach's standard deviation. While three to five losses in a row at a 2-3% risk is never fun, it is nonetheless beatable (as you will see once Oanda updates again).

 

In real life, I often will have more than 2% at risk depending upon the situation and my confidence level.

 

By the way, if your approach has an edge, then 20% max drawdown rule has no place in your trading. If your system has an edge that delivers a positive expectation over the long run, then it is a mistake to have a rule that would have you quit the game at what is likely the tail-end of a larger than normal yet not unexpected drawdown due to a simple adverse standard deviation.

[Ingot54 13]

I think they run a max 20% drawdown or some such. It was a rule argued for by a phony poster who knows nothing of real trading and never even stepped up to participate in the contest.

 

Trading is a "long run" game, and even the best approach will suffer larger than normal yet not unexpected drawdowns at the hands of the approach's standard deviation. While three to five losses in a row at a 2-3% risk is never fun, it is nonetheless beatable (as you will see once Oanda updates again).

 

In real life, I often will have more than 2% at risk depending upon the situation and my confidence level.

 

By the way, if your approach has an edge, then 20% max drawdown rule has no place in your trading. If your system has an edge that delivers a positive expectation over the long run, then it is a mistake to have a rule that would have you quit the game at what is likely the tail-end of a larger than normal yet not unexpected drawdown due to a simple adverse standard deviation.

Perfect response, OT - couldn't have put it better myself.