Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Tams

Forget Trading, Start Investing

Recommended Posts

Forget trading, start investing

 

Jack Bogle: Forget trading, start investing

October 17, 2012, 6:01 PM

 

Jack Bogle, founder of the Vanguard Group and author of “The Clash of the Cultures: Investment Versus Speculation,” says that investors should not be shaken by the economy, the election or the fiscal cliff and should, instead, stay focused on buying good businesses for the long haul, regardless of market conditions.

 

“Get out of the casino, own Corporate America and hold it forever,” Bogle said during “The Big Interview” on MoneyLife with Chuck Jaffe. “No trading, no nothing. You don’t need to trade; you don’t need to worry about the market. To protect yourself from the bumps the stock market will scare you with – even though it shouldn’t scare you because there have been bumps in the market since the beginning of time – have a bond position to go along with your stock position, and have your bond position [the proportion of your assets in bonds] … have something to do with your age.”

 

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2012/10/17/jack-bogle-forget-trading-start-investing/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bogle appears to be as delusional as the real / cnbc talking heads these days... I used to be high on his products...

Tams, hoping you're not sipping this "nvstmnt" koolaid - it is really just trading slowed way down

...while tripping out on this "nvstmnt" concept ...it poisons you to death...

 

If the indexes just barely kept up with curr. 'inflation' / debasement Dow, etc. would be over ____

If rates (were allowed to stay) 'kept up' with curr. 'inflation' / debasement, yields would be ____ % (compared to less than 0 now)

... = balanced portf - my ass

Meanwhile, the list of 'risk' types (beyond curr) unseen by retail 'investors' just continues to grow...

 

Old ,but still New!, alternative viewpoints he didn't mention ...

The Great Game, Gold Arbitrage and Three Little Pigs | Daniel Amerman | Safehaven.com

 

ignore this ... cause I'm not an 'authorized agent ' ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I am not wrong then trading is also a part of investing. As without investing trading is not possible. Investment may be in different forms.

 

What do you think about my point?

 

It's really a philosophical debate. BUt you can make a fortune as an investor. You can make a fortune as a trader. You can make a fortune as a guy who sells burgers from a window to people who drive up in their cars. You can even make a fortune selling bullshit to farmers.

 

There is no such thing as "a superior approach to getting rich"

 

They all work. they all have pros and cons. It's the person who is doing the trading, or investing, or burger selling, or poop promoting, that determines how successful they are.

 

Trading. Investing. You can get doing either one, or both... if you know how. Now that's the real secret. Not the asset class or type of business, but how well it is executed, will ultimately determine what makes great money, and what doesn;t.

 

FTX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess Jack Bogle is critising the attitude of trying to skim some money by buying and selling stocks in the very short term (even in the same day) trying to take advantage of ups and down in the price and he is trying to tell us that it is time to buy and hold stock for a long (how long??) time.

 

I believe that trading is not actually "investing" but rather you invest in trading . You believe hat good money can be made by bying and selling stock to take advantage of market movements .

 

If you invest on a stock you believe that the company will make you money so you hold on the stock for ever.

 

In essense this guy says forget day trading , throwing your money on the companies themeselves will make you more money as the economy is starting to recover.

 

But if you believe in the economy why not start your own business ???

 

At least with trading you can make money when stocks markets are down .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... But if you believe in the economy why not start your own business ??? ...

 

 

Exactly. An investment is capital into an enterprise that you are willing to materially participate in to make sure it succeeds... everything else is just a trade...

 

 

 

 

 

 

:haha:

 

Are you smarter than a bottom-feeding, shit-sucking, micro-cephalic crustacean? Are you sure? Then you may be an "investor"!
LiquidCourage

 

This - As Redemptions Surge, The Dreaded Hedge Fund "Gate" Is Back | ZeroHedge is one of the primary reasons why I haven’t been in any managed money (except for relatively small exposure in two mutual funds) for years and years now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Trading. Investing. You can get doing either one, or both... if you know how. Now that's the real secret. Not the asset class or type of business, but how well it is executed, will ultimately determine what makes great money, and what doesn;t.

 

FTX

 

Isn't the point that investing is investing ones alternate income stream.

Trading is trading using ones capital to make a living.

Any idiot can make a good return investing.. buy dips ... it works for me on all asset classes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am agree with you "ForexTraderX" for the following statement.

 

"It's really a philosophical debate. BUt you can make a fortune as an investor. You can make a fortune as a trader. You can make a fortune as a guy who sells burgers from a window to people who drive up in their cars. You can even make a fortune selling bullshit to farmers."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's really a philosophical debate. BUt you can make a fortune as an investor. You can make a fortune as a trader. You can make a fortune as a guy who sells burgers from a window to people who drive up in their cars. You can even make a fortune selling bullshit to farmers.

 

There is no such thing as "a superior approach to getting rich"

 

They all work. they all have pros and cons. It's the person who is doing the trading, or investing, or burger selling, or poop promoting, that determines how successful they are.

 

Trading. Investing. You can get doing either one, or both... if you know how. Now that's the real secret. Not the asset class or type of business, but how well it is executed, will ultimately determine what makes great money, and what doesn;t.

 

FTX

 

Qft. It's just a terminology.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jack Bogle: Forget trading, start investing

October 17, 2012, 6:01 PM

 

“Get out of the casino, own Corporate America and hold it forever.”

 

“No trading, no nothing. You don’t need to trade; you don’t need to worry about the market."

To do this would require an investor to have formed the view that "Corporate America" is a good investment.

 

Further, the investor would need to time the market to a degree, or risk losing more than 50% of his capital, as we saw in the 2007-2008 bear market dip. To be able to withstand a 50% drawdown, one would need a fairly experienced approach, deep pockets, and a lot of cash that you don't need for anything else.

 

The only people who fit this description don't need to be investors, but insiders.

 

Jack Bogle: Forget trading, start investing

October 17, 2012, 6:01 PM

 

To protect yourself from the bumps the stock market will scare you with, have a bond position to go along with your stock position, and have your bond position [the proportion of your assets in bonds … have something to do with your age.”

Last time I looked I didn't have enough money to take out a position in bonds, so I guess Jack's excellent book is not addressing people like myself.

 

Actually, I wonder who it IS addressing ... and what is the motivation for writing it?

Very few traders make enough money from their trading to the exclusion of all other income requirements - at least that is a broad generalisation I have formed through my association with trading and people over the past 8 years.

 

Had I taken Jack's advice in 2004, I would have about the same amount of money I have today :rofl:

 

Had I taken Bill Bonner/Dan Denning's advice - "buy gold, sell the Dow" - when he gave it in 1999: (The Daily Reckoning 3rd September 2009)

 

World Economy: Negative Growth - Or Positive Collapse?

 

"Starting in 1999, Bill Bonner told you to buy gold. Bill even helpfully labeled it "The trade of the decade." Over the years, Agora Financial published countless essays about gold from the Mogambo Guru, who was never subtle about it. "Buy freaking gold," said Mogambo. "Or if you don't buy gold, buy silver," he said. You could look it up.

 

"Many other Agora editors and contributors told you to buy gold and silver. Addison Wiggin, Eric Fry and Dan Denning told you to buy it. Agora Financial published guest articles from the likes of Gary North, Doug Casey, Marc Faber and many others about buying precious metals. I've been writing about gold in Agora Financial publications since 2003, when I was a mere "unpaid correspondent in Pittsburgh" composing occasional notes for The Daily Reckoning. "When all else fails (and it will)," I said, "own gold."

 

* Given that gold has taken a breather like this in the past ... can a case be made for it to rally once again?

 

* Is the printing of money in Europe (Mario Draghi: "Whatever it takes.") enough to fuel another rally in gold?

 

* Is the printing of money in the USA (Ben Bernanke: "(we)will spend $40 billion a month purchasing mortgage debt (and) continue bond purchases)" enough to continue to pressure under the gold price?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this a good time to buy Gold?

 

If you take Jack Bogle's advice, and apply it to gold as a commodity, the answer is a clear "yes."

But you must be prepared to buy it and hold it ... knowing that the only return it will give you is capital gains.

 

The FOMC statements have been a key, in the past, to market moves.

 

The October 24th/25th FOMC statement was no exception, but instead of pushing gold higher as

it had done in the past, it has had the opposite effect. Bernanke made an adjustment to QE3 - he added

this month, that all future bond purchases would NOT form part of Operation Twist, but would be allowed

to be MONETISED! For some reason the market allowed that to pass by - overshadowed by the positive

employment numbers no doubt ... for now.

 

Could it be that the gold bears, who suppress the price by shorting gold using paper derivatives,

but not having the physical gold to actually sell, have been hard at work printing more paper gold

to sell?

 

Yes, I think so.

 

If you buy-and-hold as Bogle advises to do with "good" stocks (World.com .... Enron anyone) there

is a time coming, in my view, that these bears will have to cover their paper.

 

When they can NOT provide the physical gold they need to satisfy clients who insist on physical

delivery, there will be an avalanche of short covering ... or so many of of think.

 

This "should" force the true price of gold to emerge.

 

But don't count on it - the banks who are short (JP Morgan et al) only have to go belly-up and

the world will get on with business as usual, while the bulls cry "foul" and the regulators go back to sleep.

 

The regulators are more corrupt than the perps.

 

Big statement?

 

Look at the MFGlobal collapse - Jon S. Corzine managed to get USD$1.6billion of client funds

to "disappear" while the regulators with no gonads are unable to find one-single-crime to charge him with!

 

No Criminal Case Is Likely in Loss at MF Global - NYTimes.com

 

Good one!

 

Of course nothing will come out of the missing USD$200million PFGBest collpase either - more

will be spent on liquidators and lawyers than could ever be possibly located and returned to

the owners who traded with the company in good faith.

 

PFGBest Collapse Leads to CFTC, FBI Inquiries

 

Now - does anyone still expect the price of gold to spike when those with short paper are unable

to cover ... or like me, do you expect the CFTC (who already know that there is more paper

written over gold, than there is physical stuff to back it) to do nothing, like they have with

other trading scandals?

 

Be aware of the "f" factor ... and for those who still have not cottoned-on:

 

F-R-A-U-D ... BY ... A-D-M-I-N-I-S-T-R-A-T-O-R-S

 

When the money is gone ... just call for your good friend Chapter 11 ... he'll save you ... he

always has in the past.

 

Trade gold ... take profits frequently ... keep your spare cash at home - not with your broker ... and

have your TP and SL in place at all times - especially Fridays and over weekends.

 

A little paranoia is essential in order to be a successful trader :rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Crypto hype is everywhere since it also making new riches as well, i however trade crypto little as compared to other forex trading pairs.
    • The ewallets can be instant withdrawals like skrill etc or they can also pay through crypto but not tested their crypto withdrawals so far.
    • I noticed that this broker has also started crypto cfds to trade. Crypto fever is almost everywhere in my opinion and the traders making good sums of money too.
    • MDLZ Mondelez stock, nice rally off the 64.18 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?MDLZ
    • Date: 27th March 2025.   SNP500 Erases Gains as Trump’s Aggressive Trade Policy Shakes Markets   The SNP500 fell 1.35% on Wednesday wiping off the gains from the week. The decline is primarily due to fears of the upcoming US trade policy on April 2nd and beyond. In the President’s latest speech investors heard Trump confirm he looks to tax foreign cars with 25% tariffs and will add retaliation tariffs on Canada and the EU if they look to retaliate. The US Latest Comments On Global Trade The main concern for investors is the US President’s latest comments on the EU potentially collaborating with Canada. The two countries are aiming to push the US into a more favourable trade agreement. Donald Trump states that “if the EU works with Canada in order to do economic harm to the USA, large scale tariffs far larger than currently planned will be placed on both”. Up to now, both Canada and the EU have advised markets that they will retaliate. As a result, investors fear how these policies can trigger lower consumer demand, higher inflation and even a potential recession. The latest consumer confidence fell for the fourth day to 92.9, missing the 94.2 forecast. The economic outlook dropped to 65.2, a 12-year low, staying below the 80.0 recession warning level. However, the Federal Reserve so far in 2025 is advising the US economy remains stable despite the uncertainties. Furthermore, the US confirms they intend to impose a 25% tariff on all car imports and essential parts, including engines, transmissions, and electrical components. Many countries have already voiced their concerns over this decision.   Where Automakers Build Cars Sold in America   The Federal Reserve and Inflation Chicago Fed President Austan Goolsbee stated yesterday that policymakers may postpone monetary easing for 12 to 18 months due to market uncertainty. He also continues warning that rising inflation expectations could complicate efforts to slow it down. Another member to voice concerns is Alberto Musalem, a US economist and banker. The risk of US inflation remaining above the Fed’s 2% target, or even increasing, continues to grow, with higher import taxes potentially driving sustained price pressures. In the latest month, US inflation fell from 3.00% to 2.8% which is positive for the stock market, but only if it continues to fall towards 2.00%. There is currently only a 10% chance of an interest rate cut in May 2025 according to the Chicago Exchange. Economists advise the upcoming data will be vital and can significantly influence the risk appetite of the market. Traders will be focusing on today’s Final US GDP and tomorrow's Core PCE Price Index. If tomorrow’s PCE Price Index reads more than 0.3%, the stock market could quickly witness renewed pressure. SNP500 (USA500) - Technical Analysis Regardless of the above fundamental factors which are triggering the recent decline, the SNP500 has risen 0.35% during this morning’s Asian session. The bullish corrective wave currently measures 40% of yesterday’s bearish impulse wave. Though traders should also note that global indices including within the EU and Asia are continuing to decline.   SNP500 (USA100) 1-Hour Chart   The price in a 15-minute timeframe remains below most trend lines and Moving Averages. In addition to this, the price is again dropping below the neutral level of the RSI and the VWAP. If the price regains downward momentum and falls below $5,701.98, many traders may consider bearish momentum to be regaining ground. At this point, sell signals potentially can materialize. Further adding to the indications of downward price movement is the VIX index which is currently trading 0.60% higher. The higher the VIX index the lower the appetite there is towards the US stock market. Lastly, the US 10-Year Treasury Yields continue to rise adding further pressure on the stock market. The 10 Year Treasury Yields are currently trading 25 points higher. Key Takeaway Levels: The SNP500 dropped 1.35% as investors reacted to fears surrounding the upcoming US trade policy changes on April 2nd. This includes a potential 25% tariff on foreign cars and retaliatory tariffs against Canada and the EU. Fed officials warn that inflation risks remain high, with import tariffs potentially driving further price pressures. Inflation recently fell to 2.8%, but concerns persist about whether it will reach the Fed’s 2% target. Traders are closely monitoring upcoming US GDP and Core PCE Price Index data. If PCE exceeds 0.3%, stocks could face renewed pressure. Despite a slight rebound in the SNP500, indicators like RSI, VWAP, and the rising VIX index suggest bearish momentum could return, particularly if the index falls below $5,701.98. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.