Forget Trading, Start Investing

[Tams 20]

Forget trading, start investing

 

Jack Bogle: Forget trading, start investing

October 17, 2012, 6:01 PM

 

Jack Bogle, founder of the Vanguard Group and author of “The Clash of the Cultures: Investment Versus Speculation,” says that investors should not be shaken by the economy, the election or the fiscal cliff and should, instead, stay focused on buying good businesses for the long haul, regardless of market conditions.

 

“Get out of the casino, own Corporate America and hold it forever,” Bogle said during “The Big Interview” on MoneyLife with Chuck Jaffe. “No trading, no nothing. You don’t need to trade; you don’t need to worry about the market. To protect yourself from the bumps the stock market will scare you with – even though it shouldn’t scare you because there have been bumps in the market since the beginning of time – have a bond position to go along with your stock position, and have your bond position [the proportion of your assets in bonds] … have something to do with your age.”

 

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2012/10/17/jack-bogle-forget-trading-start-investing/

[zdo 20]

Bogle appears to be as delusional as the real / cnbc talking heads these days... I used to be high on his products...

Tams, hoping you're not sipping this "nvstmnt" koolaid - it is really just trading slowed way down

...while tripping out on this "nvstmnt" concept ...it poisons you to death...

 

If the indexes just barely kept up with curr. 'inflation' / debasement Dow, etc. would be over ____

If rates (were allowed to stay) 'kept up' with curr. 'inflation' / debasement, yields would be ____ % (compared to less than 0 now)

... = balanced portf - my ass

Meanwhile, the list of 'risk' types (beyond curr) unseen by retail 'investors' just continues to grow...

 

Old ,but still New!, alternative viewpoints he didn't mention ...

The Great Game, Gold Arbitrage and Three Little Pigs | Daniel Amerman | Safehaven.com

 

ignore this ... cause I'm not an 'authorized agent '

[henryduncan12 10]

If I am not wrong then trading is also a part of investing. As without investing trading is not possible. Investment may be in different forms.

 

What do you think about my point?

[ForexTraderX 10]

If I am not wrong then trading is also a part of investing. As without investing trading is not possible. Investment may be in different forms.

 

What do you think about my point?

 

It's really a philosophical debate. BUt you can make a fortune as an investor. You can make a fortune as a trader. You can make a fortune as a guy who sells burgers from a window to people who drive up in their cars. You can even make a fortune selling bullshit to farmers.

 

There is no such thing as "a superior approach to getting rich"

 

They all work. they all have pros and cons. It's the person who is doing the trading, or investing, or burger selling, or poop promoting, that determines how successful they are.

 

Trading. Investing. You can get doing either one, or both... if you know how. Now that's the real secret. Not the asset class or type of business, but how well it is executed, will ultimately determine what makes great money, and what doesn;t.

 

FTX

[straddle 10]

I guess Jack Bogle is critising the attitude of trying to skim some money by buying and selling stocks in the very short term (even in the same day) trying to take advantage of ups and down in the price and he is trying to tell us that it is time to buy and hold stock for a long (how long??) time.

 

I believe that trading is not actually "investing" but rather you invest in trading . You believe hat good money can be made by bying and selling stock to take advantage of market movements .

 

If you invest on a stock you believe that the company will make you money so you hold on the stock for ever.

 

In essense this guy says forget day trading , throwing your money on the companies themeselves will make you more money as the economy is starting to recover.

 

But if you believe in the economy why not start your own business ???

 

At least with trading you can make money when stocks markets are down .

[zdo 20]

... But if you believe in the economy why not start your own business ??? ...

 

 

Exactly. An investment is capital into an enterprise that you are willing to materially participate in to make sure it succeeds... everything else is just a trade...

 

 

 

 

 

 

:haha:

 

Are you smarter than a bottom-feeding, shit-sucking, micro-cephalic crustacean? Are you sure? Then you may be an "investor"!

LiquidCourage

 

This - As Redemptions Surge, The Dreaded Hedge Fund "Gate" Is Back | ZeroHedge is one of the primary reasons why I haven’t been in any managed money (except for relatively small exposure in two mutual funds) for years and years now...

[jimbo320 10]

 

Trading. Investing. You can get doing either one, or both... if you know how. Now that's the real secret. Not the asset class or type of business, but how well it is executed, will ultimately determine what makes great money, and what doesn;t.

 

FTX

 

Isn't the point that investing is investing ones alternate income stream.

Trading is trading using ones capital to make a living.

Any idiot can make a good return investing.. buy dips ... it works for me on all asset classes.

[henryduncan12 10]

I am agree with you "ForexTraderX" for the following statement.

 

"It's really a philosophical debate. BUt you can make a fortune as an investor. You can make a fortune as a trader. You can make a fortune as a guy who sells burgers from a window to people who drive up in their cars. You can even make a fortune selling bullshit to farmers."

[Landser 10]

It's really a philosophical debate. BUt you can make a fortune as an investor. You can make a fortune as a trader. You can make a fortune as a guy who sells burgers from a window to people who drive up in their cars. You can even make a fortune selling bullshit to farmers.

 

There is no such thing as "a superior approach to getting rich"

 

They all work. they all have pros and cons. It's the person who is doing the trading, or investing, or burger selling, or poop promoting, that determines how successful they are.

 

Trading. Investing. You can get doing either one, or both... if you know how. Now that's the real secret. Not the asset class or type of business, but how well it is executed, will ultimately determine what makes great money, and what doesn;t.

 

FTX

 

Qft. It's just a terminology.

[Ingot54 13]

Jack Bogle: Forget trading, start investing

October 17, 2012, 6:01 PM

 

“Get out of the casino, own Corporate America and hold it forever.”

 

“No trading, no nothing. You don’t need to trade; you don’t need to worry about the market."

To do this would require an investor to have formed the view that "Corporate America" is a good investment.

 

Further, the investor would need to time the market to a degree, or risk losing more than 50% of his capital, as we saw in the 2007-2008 bear market dip. To be able to withstand a 50% drawdown, one would need a fairly experienced approach, deep pockets, and a lot of cash that you don't need for anything else.

 

The only people who fit this description don't need to be investors, but insiders.

 

Jack Bogle: Forget trading, start investing

October 17, 2012, 6:01 PM

 

To protect yourself from the bumps the stock market will scare you with, have a bond position to go along with your stock position, and have your bond position [the proportion of your assets in bonds … have something to do with your age.”

Last time I looked I didn't have enough money to take out a position in bonds, so I guess Jack's excellent book is not addressing people like myself.

 

Actually, I wonder who it IS addressing ... and what is the motivation for writing it?

Very few traders make enough money from their trading to the exclusion of all other income requirements - at least that is a broad generalisation I have formed through my association with trading and people over the past 8 years.

 

Had I taken Jack's advice in 2004, I would have about the same amount of money I have today :rofl:

 

Had I taken Bill Bonner/Dan Denning's advice - "buy gold, sell the Dow" - when he gave it in 1999: (The Daily Reckoning 3rd September 2009)

 

World Economy: Negative Growth - Or Positive Collapse?

 

"Starting in 1999, Bill Bonner told you to buy gold. Bill even helpfully labeled it "The trade of the decade." Over the years, Agora Financial published countless essays about gold from the Mogambo Guru, who was never subtle about it. "Buy freaking gold," said Mogambo. "Or if you don't buy gold, buy silver," he said. You could look it up.

 

"Many other Agora editors and contributors told you to buy gold and silver. Addison Wiggin, Eric Fry and Dan Denning told you to buy it. Agora Financial published guest articles from the likes of Gary North, Doug Casey, Marc Faber and many others about buying precious metals. I've been writing about gold in Agora Financial publications since 2003, when I was a mere "unpaid correspondent in Pittsburgh" composing occasional notes for The Daily Reckoning. "When all else fails (and it will)," I said, "own gold."

 

* Given that gold has taken a breather like this in the past ... can a case be made for it to rally once again?

 

* Is the printing of money in Europe (Mario Draghi: "Whatever it takes.") enough to fuel another rally in gold?

 

* Is the printing of money in the USA (Ben Bernanke: "(we)will spend $40 billion a month purchasing mortgage debt (and) continue bond purchases)" enough to continue to pressure under the gold price?

[Ingot54 13]

Is this a good time to buy Gold?

 

If you take Jack Bogle's advice, and apply it to gold as a commodity, the answer is a clear "yes."

But you must be prepared to buy it and hold it ... knowing that the only return it will give you is capital gains.

 

The FOMC statements have been a key, in the past, to market moves.

 

The October 24th/25th FOMC statement was no exception, but instead of pushing gold higher as

it had done in the past, it has had the opposite effect. Bernanke made an adjustment to QE3 - he added

this month, that all future bond purchases would NOT form part of Operation Twist, but would be allowed

to be MONETISED! For some reason the market allowed that to pass by - overshadowed by the positive

employment numbers no doubt ... for now.

 

Could it be that the gold bears, who suppress the price by shorting gold using paper derivatives,

but not having the physical gold to actually sell, have been hard at work printing more paper gold

to sell?

 

Yes, I think so.

 

If you buy-and-hold as Bogle advises to do with "good" stocks (World.com .... Enron anyone) there

is a time coming, in my view, that these bears will have to cover their paper.

 

When they can NOT provide the physical gold they need to satisfy clients who insist on physical

delivery, there will be an avalanche of short covering ... or so many of of think.

 

This "should" force the true price of gold to emerge.

 

But don't count on it - the banks who are short (JP Morgan et al) only have to go belly-up and

the world will get on with business as usual, while the bulls cry "foul" and the regulators go back to sleep.

 

The regulators are more corrupt than the perps.

 

Big statement?

 

Look at the MFGlobal collapse - Jon S. Corzine managed to get USD$1.6billion of client funds

to "disappear" while the regulators with no gonads are unable to find one-single-crime to charge him with!

 

No Criminal Case Is Likely in Loss at MF Global - NYTimes.com

 

Good one!

 

Of course nothing will come out of the missing USD$200million PFGBest collpase either - more

will be spent on liquidators and lawyers than could ever be possibly located and returned to

the owners who traded with the company in good faith.

 

PFGBest Collapse Leads to CFTC, FBI Inquiries

 

Now - does anyone still expect the price of gold to spike when those with short paper are unable

to cover ... or like me, do you expect the CFTC (who already know that there is more paper

written over gold, than there is physical stuff to back it) to do nothing, like they have with

other trading scandals?

 

Be aware of the "f" factor ... and for those who still have not cottoned-on:

 

F-R-A-U-D ... BY ... A-D-M-I-N-I-S-T-R-A-T-O-R-S

 

When the money is gone ... just call for your good friend Chapter 11 ... he'll save you ... he

always has in the past.

 

Trade gold ... take profits frequently ... keep your spare cash at home - not with your broker ... and

have your TP and SL in place at all times - especially Fridays and over weekends.

 

A little paranoia is essential in order to be a successful trader :rofl: