Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

jswanson

A Statistical Method For Stop Placement

Recommended Posts

In the September 2012 issue of Futures magazine, author Neil Rosenthal began a multi-part series on system development. During the first series Neil uses MetaTrader 4 (MT4) to code a simple system and demonstrates how he uses Excel to analyze the results as the first step to building a trading system. After discovering a market edge – what I call a key concept – Neil demonstrates his process of finding an initial hard stop value for his system. I found his method similar to what I use. I thought it would be helpful if I recount his method here.

 

While many people focus on the specifics of a trade entry, trade exit is also vitally important. After you have discovered what you think is a solid “key concept” the next question you may wish to explore is: Where should the initial stop be placed? Within Neil’s article he calls this his ISL (initial stop loss).

 

The Trading System

 

Because we not focusing on a specific trading system I’m going use Neil’s idea of using a random entry method. That is, upon the open of the market a virtual coin will be flipped. If the coin comes up heads, we go long. If it comes up tails, we go short. This will take the focus off the trading system and place the emphasis on the true point of this post, how to determine where to place your ISL. Indeed this process is applicable to all system trading development.

 

I’m going to trade this on Euro currency futures market and will use the 830 open (Central) as the time to open a new trade and the 1500 close (Central) to close the trade. Trades will be executed and managed on a 5-minute bar chart. Below is the TradeStation code that will act as the foundation of our trading system. If you are familiar with the steps I use to develop a trading system, you will recognize this stage of development as the “Baseline” system. This Baseline system will act as our stake-in-the-ground or reference point to compare the modified version against.

 

 

 

vRandomNumber = Intportion( Random(100) );

If ( vRandomNumber >= 50 ) Then buy("LE") next bar at market

Else sellshort("SE") next bar at market;

 

 

The Results

 

 

The system was executed over a five-year period ending July 31, 2012. No slippage or commissions were deducted from the results. The test generated 1,269 trades. The number of short trades (625) accounted for 49% of the trades and the number of long trades (644) accounted for 51% of the trades. As expected the number of winning trades is near the 50% mark at 51%. You can see that this system actually produced a positive net profit of $27,200 with an average trade of $21.43. If we factor slippage and commissions the system would appear to be a break-even system.

 

RandomSystemResults.png

 

We can probably improve the average profit per trade by limiting what we lose on trades that move against us. This is the purpose of having an ISL. By using an Excel spreadsheet to analyze the maximum adverse excursion (MAE) for our winning and losing trades we can help narrow down a proper value for our ISL. MAE is the amount a trade moves against us. For example, if we open a trade that immediately climbs to a profit of $100, then falls to $75 into the red before we finally close the trade at our $250 profit target, our MAE would be $75.

 

So we now know we wish to examine the MAE of our system, but how do we do that?

 

Trade Recorder Function

 

Fortunately, I created an EasyLanguage function called TradeRecorder which does exactly what we need. By placing this function within our strategy code all our required trade information is sent to an Excel formatted file on our hard drive. From there it’s just a mater of cut-and-pasting our trade information into another Excel spreadsheet to analyze our results. Please read this article for a more complete description on what TradeRecorder can do.

 

Data Analysis

 

Now that we have all the trades in an Excel file I can take this data and cut-and-paste it into another spreadsheet called Trade Analysis, which is available at the bottom of this post. This spreadsheet is nothing fancy but will compute what we are looking for. Using the sort feature in Excel I can separate the winning and losing trades. Then I can use Excel’s built in functions to generate the mean and standard deviation of the MAE values.

 

Below are the values generated by Trade Analysis for our example run of our trading system.

 

RandomEntryMAEResults.png

 

In our example trading system we can see winning trades have a mean MAE of around 19 ticks. This suggests that a stop value smaller than this value will likely result in stopping-out of winning trades. In other words, the stop value would not be large enough. On the other hand, if we look at our losing trades we can see the mean MAE is 72 ticks. Such an extreme move against us is unlikely to produce a positive trade and we should be looking at cutting our losses. Notice how losing trades move strongly against our position while winning trades take much less “heat”. With this information we already have a ballpark idea on where to place our ISL. Furthermore, the same analysis can be done with the maximum favorable excursion (MFE) to help us locate a proper profit target to test. But more on that later.

 

While it may be tempting to place a stop just beyond our 19 tick mean, a more optimal number can be found by using optimization. We are not done yet on determining our ISL. However, it will have to wait for a future post.

 

Video

 

Below is a video that explains in detail on how to use the Trade Recorder function with the Trade Analysis spreadsheet. These two tools can be used to help you determine your ISL for systems you develop. Both these tools are available as a free download at the bottom of this post.

 

 

Downlaods

 

The trading system code and an excel spreadsheet used in this post is available here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TradeStation is great, but there are limits to what can be gleaned from the reports that a strategy test generates . . .

 

For other ideas for useful Excel trade analysis using the TradeRecorder function that JSwanson has kindly provided, have a look at 'Trading Systems that Work' by Thomas Stridsman.

 

BlueHorseshoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Thx for reminding us... I don't bang that drum often enough anymore Another part for consideration is who that money initially went to...
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • How long does it take to receive HFM's withdrawal via Skrill? less than 24H?
    • My wife Robin just wanted some groceries.   Simple enough.   She parked the car for fifteen minutes, and returned to find a huge scratch on the side.   Someone keyed her car.   To be clear, this isn’t just any car.   It’s a Cybertruck—Elon Musk's stainless-steel spaceship on wheels. She bought it back in 2021, before Musk became everyone's favorite villain or savior.   Someone saw it parked in a grocery lot and felt compelled to carve their hatred directly into the metal.   That's what happens when you stand out.   Nobody keys a beige minivan.   When you're polarizing, you're impossible to ignore. But the irony is: the more attention something has, the harder it is to find the truth about it.   What’s Elon Musk really thinking? What are his plans? What will happen with DOGE? Is he deserving of all of this adoration and hate? Hard to say.   Ideas work the same way.   Take tariffs, for example.   Tariffs have become the Cybertrucks of economic policy. People either love them or hate them. Even if they don’t understand what they are and how they work. (Most don’t.)   That’s why, in my latest podcast (link below), I wanted to explore the “in-between” truth about tariffs.   And like Cybertrucks, I guess my thoughts on tariffs are polarizing.   Greg Gutfield mentioned me on Fox News. Harvard professors hate me now. (I wonder if they also key Cybertrucks?)   But before I show you what I think about tariffs… I have to mention something.   We’re Headed to Austin, Texas This weekend, my team and I are headed to Austin. By now, you should probably know why.   Yes, SXSW is happening. But my team and I are doing something I think is even better.   We’re putting on a FREE event on “Tech’s Turning Point.”   AI, quantum, biotech, crypto, and more—it’s all on the table.   Just now, we posted a special webpage with the agenda.   Click here to check it out and add it to your calendar.   The Truth About Tariffs People love to panic about tariffs causing inflation.   They wave around the ghost of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff from the Great Depression like it’s Exhibit A proving tariffs equal economic collapse.   But let me pop this myth:   Tariffs don’t cause inflation. And no, I'm not crazy (despite what angry professors from Harvard or Stanford might tweet at me).   Here's the deal.   Inflation isn’t when just a couple of things become pricier. It’s when your entire shopping basket—eggs, shirts, Netflix subscriptions, bananas, everything—starts costing more because your money’s worth less.   Inflation means your dollars aren’t stretching as far as they used to.   Take the 1800s.   For nearly a century, 97% of America’s revenue came from tariffs. Income tax? Didn’t exist. And guess what inflation was? Basically zero. Maybe 1% a year.   The economy was booming, and tariffs funded nearly everything. So, why do people suddenly think tariffs cause inflation today?   Tariffs are taxes on imports, yes, but prices are set by supply and demand—not tariffs.   Let me give you a simple example.   Imagine fancy potato chips from Canada cost $10, and a 20% tariff pushes that to $12. Everyone panics—prices rose! Inflation!   Nope.   If I only have $100 to spend and the price of my favorite chips goes up, I either stop buying chips or I buy, say, fewer newspapers.   If everyone stops buying newspapers because they’re overspending on chips, newspapers lower their prices or go out of business.   Overall spending stays the same, and inflation doesn’t budge.   Three quick scenarios:   We buy pricier chips, but fewer other things: Inflation unchanged. Manufacturers shift to the U.S. to avoid tariffs: Inflation unchanged (and more jobs here). We stop buying fancy chips: Prices drop again. Inflation? Still unchanged. The only thing that actually causes inflation is printing money.   Between 2020 and 2022 alone, 40% of all money ever created in history appeared overnight.   That’s why inflation shot up afterward—not because of tariffs.   Back to tariffs today.   Still No Inflation Unlike the infamous Smoot-Hawley blanket tariff (imagine Oprah handing out tariffs: "You get a tariff, and you get a tariff!"), today's tariffs are strategic.   Trump slapped tariffs on chips from Taiwan because we shouldn’t rely on a single foreign supplier for vital tech components—especially if that supplier might get invaded.   Now Taiwan Semiconductor is investing $100 billion in American manufacturing.   Strategic win, no inflation.   Then there’s Canada and Mexico—our friendly neighbors with weirdly huge tariffs on things like milk and butter (299% tariff on butter—really, Canada?).   Trump’s not blanketing everything with tariffs; he’s pressuring trade partners to lower theirs.   If they do, everybody wins. If they don’t, well, then we have a strategic trade chess game—but still no inflation.   In short, tariffs are about strategy, security, and fairness—not inflation.   Yes, blanket tariffs from the Great Depression era were dumb. Obviously. Today's targeted tariffs? Smart.   Listen to the whole podcast to hear why I think this.   And by the way, if you see a Cybertruck, don’t key it. Robin doesn’t care about your politics; she just likes her weird truck.   Maybe read a good book, relax, and leave cars alone.   (And yes, nobody keys Volkswagens, even though they were basically created by Hitler. Strange world we live in.) Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/the-truth-about-tariffs-busting-the-inflation-myth    Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/       
    • No, not if you are comparing apples to apples. What we call “poor” is obviously a pretty high bar but if you’re talking about like a total homeless shambling skexie in like San Fran then, no. The U.S.A. in not particularly kind to you. It is not an abuse so much as it is a sad relatively minor consequence of our optimism and industriousness.   What you consider rich changes with circumstances obviously. If you are genuinely poor in the U.S.A., you experience a quirky hodgepodge of unhelpful and/or abstract extreme lavishnesses while also being alienated from your social support network. It’s about the same as being a refugee. For a fraction of the ‘kindness’ available to you in non bio-available form, you could have simply stayed closer to your people and been MUCH better off.   It’s just a quirk of how we run the place and our values; we are more worried about interfering with people’s liberty and natural inclination to do for themselves than we are about no bums left behind. It is a slightly hurtful position and we know it; we are just scared to death of socialism cancer and we’re willing to put our money where our mouth is.   So, if you’re a bum; you got 5G, the ER will spend like $1,000,000 on you over a hangnail but then kick you out as soon as you’re “stabilized”, the logistics are surpremely efficient, you have total unchecked freedom of speech, real-estate, motels, and jobs are all natural healthy markets in perfect competition, you got compulsory three ‘R’’s, your military owns the sky, sea, space, night, information-space, and has the best hairdos, you can fill out paper and get all the stuff up to and including a Ph.D. Pretty much everything a very generous, eager, flawless go-getter with five minutes to spare would think you might need.   It’s worse. Our whole society is competitive and we do NOT value or make any kumbaya exception. The last kumbaya types we had werr the Shakers and they literally went extinct. Pueblo peoples are still around but they kind of don’t count since they were here before us. So basically, if you’re poor in the U.S.A., you are automatically a loser and a deadbeat too. You will be treated as such by anybody not specifically either paid to deal with you or shysters selling bejesus, Amway, and drugs. Plus, it ain’t safe out there. Not everybody uses muhfreedoms to lift their truck, people be thugging and bums are very vulnerable here. The history of a large mobile workforce means nobody has a village to go home to. Source: https://askdaddy.quora.com/Are-the-poor-people-in-the-United-States-the-richest-poor-people-in-the-world-6   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.