Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

TinGull

[VSA] Volume Spread Analysis Part I

Recommended Posts

 

For 'No demand' to be correct, you have to have weakness in the background, if you get a sign of strength followed by no demand, then it means that the smart money are not interested in higher prices at that time, and you should be careful if going in, the other thing I find is that most of you seem to view the VSA indicators in isolation, instead of putting them all together to create a complete picture, you have to view the indicators in the same way as a musician, ie read the script and put it all together as the time unfolds.

 

Hope this post was helpful.

 

Regards S

 

"Basically you will be watching out for a low volume up-bar, on a narrow spread." Tom Williams Master The Markets, pg. 32.

 

At TradeGuider Systems, we define a "No demand" situation as a narrow spread bar, on low volume, that closes in the middle or low." Tom Williams Master The Markets, pg.153.

 

Simply put, you are half wrong.

 

PP defined No demand bars as they are indeed defined. What he did not mention was that all no demand bars are not created equally. They show up in different intensities and in more effective locations, i.e. with background weakness. Therefore, every up bar on volume less than the previous two bars is not a reason to short or expect lower prices. It is still a sign of immediate lack of professional interest. And thus acurrately defined as "No demand".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like DB. He is a welcome addition to the forum as a whole. Truth is, PP mentioned him in this thread long before anybody else did in the other thread. However, the new thread seems to be getting off topic. So this is a bump to raise the original VSA thread up to the top so actual VSA teaching and learning can go on.

 

Also, If you have a problem with Joel, grow a pair and tell him. Don't use this thread to not so subtly mask your disdain or inability to grasp what he tried to impart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, If you have a problem with Joel, grow a pair and tell him. Don't use this thread to not so subtly mask your disdain or inability to grasp what he tried to impart.

 

I will thank you to please keep the conversation civil. If you cannot do that, then please post elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a chart provided by DB.

 

From a VSA perspective, we see a bar that represents climatic action. Or stopping volume. It makes a lower low and closes near its high on ultra high volume after a down trend. Like the name implies, this stops the down move. Price then move up. Suddenly we see an up bar on ultra high volume that closes in the middle of its range. Note that this is the highest volume bar on the chart. If there were just buying on this bar on all that volume, then price should not close in the middle of the range.

 

Price moves down a bit and then we get a test. Note how little volume there is on this candle. If there is no supply, which is what they are testing for, then price is free to go up. It does.

untitled1.png.d4f373947c4b16efb54f8afa68e49db4.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If there were just buying on this bar on all that volume, then price should not close in the middle of the range.

 

An important observation, and of course from a Wyckoff perspective as well.

 

However, this particular bar did not play a part in the setup. But even if it had, I likely would have dismissed it because it is literally a tick bar. Therefore the data is suspect, partly because of the brevity of it but mostly because of what you observed and concluded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I have reopened this thread and made it a sticky. We have a Part II thread but hopefully folks with any questions on this particular thread can interact here as well. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Sebastian,

 

thanks for your posts.

I'm starting to learn new things about price-volume analysis.

Could you please give any advice on what/where can I find more information on the subject?

For example, what books/courses do you consider being the most important to you as a trader and where you learned the most.

 

thanks in advance,

 

Regards

P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone tried the 30 days and got a refund.. Seems like starting the time for the refund the day you order and having them receive the sw back withing the 30 days,, just isnt 30 day trial but something else..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone tried the 30 days and got a refund.. Seems like starting the time for the refund the day you order and having them receive the sw back withing the 30 days,, just isnt 30 day trial but something else..

 

First, this was not the best place for this post.

 

Second, MOST companies (trading related or not) that offer 30 day money back guarantees, require the product to be sent back (received by the company) within the 30 day period. So the customer does not actually get to try the product for 30 days.

 

To be sure, there are many things to dislike about TG. That they employ the same "30 day" scam that Most companies do can't really be one of them. If they make you jump thru additional hoops, that would be a different story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So where was the best place to post this??? The other posts say come here and now you say go to there,, buy no sell no !!

 

Probably doesn't matter much if you take back underwear you didn't like for 30 days,, since you had a full 30 days to try it out. When there is only around 20 trading days a month, right away thats 1/3 of the time gone, take another 5 days for shipping back and forth,, now you are down to a 15 day trial and not 30 days of usable time. So thats only $200 a day bet you making,, hey doesn't sound so bad like that! Club 3000.

 

I didn't use the "S" word.. but there are some other hoops they make you jump through.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think volume spread analysis has to be use with other elements of the market to have winning trades, some of those elements i have noticed include but am sure are not limited to the following, product type (equities, commodities,currency, bonds etc), days high, week high, month highs and lows, your brokers mark-ups especially in the retail forex market which i don't trade cos it's not very liquid. Market liquidity is also very important considering the fact that in commodities for example buyers can only offer a price that they are sure they can sell it for to manufacturers that was clearly displayed in the crude oil markets this year, at $4 or $147 a barrels demand dried up and they had no choice but to sell at a lower price. If you look at the open interest in october crude contract was 220,000 a month before contract expiration on expiration its was 23,000 contracts that tells you how much speculative trade exist on the up side or down side. When trading equities volume spread analysis has to be used with the call and put options contract volume and strike prices of those contracts. I also think since our volume (your trade volume) especially in the commodity market is part of the market it distorts your analysis for those trading on a short time frame. I would be glad if anyone corrects me on some my market opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sweet....I'm getting the hang of it. hehe. The doji at R1, too...closing in the lower portion of the spread with real heavy volume (comparatively)...showing we've got a direction change coming up. That turned out to be a nice trade of about 40 points.

 

Please post a chart if you want to discuss a trade. We don't even know what market you're trading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Metamp

 

the best way to read forex charts is on ninjatrader. u can do this by going to http://www.ampforex.com. sign up for a NT forex demo account, and u can have your charts using gain capital's forex feed. the chart u showed is completely spagetti and unreadable using any TA or VSA. it shouys stay out@!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been using Volume sticks on my Globex trading (SP500, YMM) and , after some eperience it really can tell me lot about marked intenion,sentiment, player, but you have watch them same as candle invidualy and in group(for example they often clealy tell you when minitrend is abut to end, is eny enthusiasm left in market.

I recenly came across VSA, read a book, watched several prezentation, and must say that many times their conlusions are correct ( I recognized the action, now I know it is.. kind of invening a wheel thing..)...and I did not use their pricely courses or software ( I'm sure they a prefectly ok.), but often VSA pattern is there, but results not as predicted.

( on courses they rarly show you thouse :))

.I would rather, if you think that Volume is imnportant (if you can meassured it; I hear in Forex is not possible ), treat these Volume sticks as candles you study every day both togher to see relation, and not only invidualy but also bigger picture.

Anyway, it's my penny, whatever is it worth.

IF you need more details, chart example - let me know.

 

Happy ticking verybody!

 

Januszom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think volume spread analysis has to be use with other elements of the market to have winning trades, some of those elements i have noticed include but am sure are not limited to the following, product type (equities, commodities,currency, bonds etc), days high, week high, month highs and lows, your brokers mark-ups especially in the retail forex market which i don't trade cos it's not very liquid. Market liquidity is also very important considering the fact that in commodities for example buyers can only offer a price that they are sure they can sell it for to manufacturers that was clearly displayed in the crude oil markets this year, at $4 or $147 a barrels demand dried up and they had no choice but to sell at a lower price. If you look at the open interest in october crude contract was 220,000 a month before contract expiration on expiration its was 23,000 contracts that tells you how much speculative trade exist on the up side or down side. When trading equities volume spread analysis has to be used with the call and put options contract volume and strike prices of those contracts. I also think since our volume (your trade volume) especially in the commodity market is part of the market it distorts your analysis for those trading on a short time frame. I would be glad if anyone corrects me on some my market opinions.

 

Can you explain more of how to use VSA for equity options? I am interested in options and think VSA might be of use.

 

Thanks, BBJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you for starting this thread. I hope it will continue to grow and be a real source of learning and sharing of ideas.

 

Volume Spread Analysis is a very valuable tool in my opinion.

 

Just some quick observations:

 

1. We have a wide spread candle with volume that is higher than any volume bar that can be seen on the chart. This candle closes lower than the previous candle, but in the upper portion of its range. Clearly there is demand (buying) going on in this bar.

 

VSA does not care about the open, so the fact that the candle is red means little to use. (personally I do like to see the open on some candles, but technically we do not use them.)

 

The more you use VSA, the more you will see Professional activity around the key numbers (aka Floor pivots). Time and time again, the Smart Money shows itself around these levels.

 

2. The very next candle is narrow, closes down from the previous bar, closes near its low and has volume less than the previous two bars. THIS IS NO SUPPLY.

 

immediately after the Smart Money enters in the form of demand (buying), there is a No Supply bar. That means all the excess supply was soaked up on that wide range previous bar. Note surprisingly, the previous bar has a long tail where supply was swamped by demand (buyers swamping sellers).

 

3. While not VSA, the No Supply bar shows a divergence with your Delta tick tool. Very interesting. VSA gets its roots from Wyckoff more than 100 years ago. Way before any tick delta tool could be made. Not saying it's a bad tool, saying it is great how this new tool hits the nail on the head in this situation.

 

the 1520 bar looks like another No supply bar and again there is a green dot on the bar.

 

4. Price comes back down to the area of the pivot. This bar is wide spread with volume less than the previous two bars and closes in the middle of its range. Again, No Supply. Bars that close in the middle of their range should always draw your attention.

 

Look one bar back. This bar has high volume-relative to the volume bars before it. Now if this bar, which closes down, was truly weakness then why does the next bar close equal to it and not down? Because there was some buying going on in the bar.

 

Note that this last No Supply bar actually has less volume than the first one in this same area. At this point, price is definitely poised to rise...........

 

P.S. LOL I just realized that TTM (or H.A.) is on the candles, so I could be wrong about the close of these candles :confused:

 

 

 

what chart are you refering to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • "To make more capable, powerful AI models, developers need a steady flow of fresh data to train their models on. However, they’re starting to run out. Current generative AIs have scraped everything from the Internet that can be scraped. The alternative is to use “synthetic” data—training data generated by earlier forms of AI instead of original sources found on the Internet.  Using synthetic data is tempting. It’s cheaper than licensing datasets (an increasingly common requirement); there’s virtually no limit to the amount of data, text, or images AIs can create; and no one’s privacy is violated. The problem is that, over several generations, AIs trained synthetically develop what has been called “Model Autophagy Disorder,” or MAD, by the researchers at Rice University who discovered it. They like the acronym “MAD” because it’s similar to “Mad Cow Disease,” a calamitous, fatal brain disease that turned up in beef cattle in the 1980s when they were fed the ground-up remains of their butchered colleagues.  The word “autophagy” is a combination of the Greek “auto,” meaning self, and “phagy,” to eat. After training successive visual AI models on synthesized data, the scientists found a disturbing pattern: images of faces began to show grid-patterned scratch marks and eventually began more and more to look like the same face. Images of numbers gradually distorted until they became a mass of unintelligible squiggles.  “Even after a few generations of such training, the new models can become irreparably corrupted,” computer engineer Richard Baraniuk said in a university press statement.  As synthetic data, and synthetically trained AIs, proliferate online, the problem will feed on itself and become steadily worse, he warned. “One doomsday scenario is that if left uncontrolled for many generations, MAD could poison the data quality and diversity of the entire Internet,” Baraniuk said. “Short of this, it seems inevitable that as-to-now-unseen unintended consequences will arise from AI autophagy even in the near term. “Without enough fresh real data,” he added, “future generative models are doomed to MADness.” TRENDPOST: If AI developers come to believe that it is no longer possible to advance generative AI much beyond its current state, two things will happen. First, engineers will switch from developing new models to tweaking existing ones and continue customizing them to make off-the-shelf versions for specific industries. Second, developers will turn their obsession with AI power from generative systems to general AI, which can reason and make decisions without the need for human guidance.  That day might be closer than any of us, including AI engineers, are ready to deal with." Zgbs73                        
    • TS Tenaris stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 39.17 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TS
    • UAL United Airlines stock nice breakout setup at https://stockconsultant.com/?UAL
    • AAL American Airlines stock, good trend, watch for a range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?AAL
    • Date: 10th January 2025. Why is the British Pound Declining?   The Great British Pound is the worst performing currency of 2025 so far after witnessing sharp declines for 3 consecutive days. The decline is largely being triggered by the bond selloff, lack of business confidence due to the UK Autumn budget and political uncertainty. Will the trend continue?     The GBP Index Declines 2% In 2025! Why Is The Pound Dropping? The Great British Pound is the worst performing currency of the week and of the year so far. Below you can see a table showing the Pound’s performance in January 2025 so far. GBPUSD -2.25% EURGBP +1.69% GBPJPY -1.44% GBPCHF -1.42% GBPAUD -1.91% GBPCAD -2.00% A key reason for the GBP’s decline is the latest labor budget, which is driving a selloff in UK bonds. Bonds across the global market are declining, including in the US and Germany. However, the global decline is mainly due to monetary policy. The decline in UK bond yields is due to concerns regarding the UK budget, higher costs for business and investor confidence. As a result, investors are selling UK bonds, but also reducing their exposure to the Pound. Bond Selloff and Rising Yields: Higher bond yields can sometimes strengthen a currency by attracting increased investor demand. However, this effect is unlikely when rising yields result from a bond selloff driven by declining investor confidence. The UK 30-Year Bond Yields are at their highest level since 1998 and the 10-Year Bond Yields are up to the highest level since the banking crisis of 2008. Investors’ concerns are that the higher costs for business will be passed onto consumers, triggering higher stickier inflation. As a result, the Bank of England will struggle to reduce the cost of borrowing in 2025 and foreign investors will become more cautious of operations in the UK. The short-term impact is that the UK Chancellor may struggle to meet her fiscal rules. Her budget margin of £9.9bn to avoid overshooting borrowing has likely shrunk to about £1 billion due to market shifts, even before the OBR updates its forecasts. This uncertainty may force the Treasury to cut future spending plans, but the full picture won’t emerge until the OBR's March forecast. According to reports, the UK Chancellor cannot risk higher increases in taxes and will be forced to cut public spending. The GBPUSD Falls To A 60-Week Low! The GBP is struggling against all currencies, but the sharpest decline can be seen against the USD. The GBP’s decline is partially due to the incoming president, Donald Trump, who is expected to introduce Dollar-supporting measures, but also potentially impose tariffs on the UK.   The new White House administration is likely to impose new tariffs on imports from China, Canada, and Mexico. This is likely to potentially disrupt supply chains and prompt the Federal Reserve to adopt tighter monetary policy, thereby strengthening the national currency. Some experts believe the UK will face tariffs or be pressured to adopt more pro-American economic policies. This is also something the EU will likely experience. In addition to this, reports suggest that the UK Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, and Trump supporters are not on good terms, nor agree on much including on Geo-politics. Therefore, the decline is also related to concerns the UK may be put into a difficult position by the new US administration. According to analysts, Dollar strength is likely to continue throughout the year due to the new administration’s measures, but also due to a hawkish Federal Reserve. In the latest FOMC meeting minutes, the committee stated it expects interest rates to decline at a slower pace. The Federal Reserve is likely to only cut 0.50% in 2025 and may not cut until May or June. Liz Truss 2022 Or James Callaghan 1976? Is this the first Pound crisis? The GBP has experienced many "sterling crises” in the past. For example, Black Wednesday from 1992 and after Brexit in 2016. However, there have been similar crises in the past which are very similar to the current situation. For example, the Liz Truss Budget from 2022 which saw the GBP decline more than 23%. During the Sterling Crisis of 1976 the GBPUSD fell from 2.0231 to 1.5669. Both sterling crises were due to the budget, inflation and rising bond yields. Today’s issues for the GBP and UK are very similar, however, the performance of the GBP will depend on if the new SI contributions triggers lower economic activity, inflation and if the Federal Reserve indeed avoids cutting interest rates in the near future. If inflation rises it will dampen consumer demand and the Bank of England will be forced to pause any rate adjustments. As a result, the economy may contract or stall further pressuring the GBP. However, this cannot yet be certain. KPMG experts anticipate accelerated economic growth this year, supported by monetary policy and increased government spending. They project GDP to rise to 1.7%, more than doubling last year’s 0.8%. This growth, according to their estimates, will be driven by a recovery in consumer spending, expected to increase by 1.8% compared to 1.0% last year. In addition to this, if the Federal Reserve unexpectedly opts for more frequent rate cuts, the GBP and EUR are likely to benefit. When monitoring the price movement and patterns which can be seen in the exchange rate, the decline looks similar to the price movement seen in 2022, during the Truss reign. The price has now fallen below the support level from April 2024. The next support levels can be seen at 1.20391 and 1.17992. Technical analysis for the GBP can also be viewed in HFM’s latest Live Trading Session.   Key Takeaways: The Great British Pound is the worst performing currency of the year so far, having declined by more than 2.00%. A key reason for the GBP’s decline is the latest labor budget, which is driving a selloff in UK bonds. UK 30-year bond yields are at their highest since 1998, while 10-year yields have reached levels last seen during the 2008 banking crisis. Investors reduce exposure to the GBP as the US edges closer to a new president and pro-Dollar supportive measures. The UK labour government will not reconsider higher taxes but may be forced to reduce public spending. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.