Most Pressing Problem Of Our Time

[Predictor 11]

The results are in: humans are too stupid to solve the greatest problems we must solve. The only answer is that people must develop methods to increase their intelligence. The most pressing problem of our time is how we can develop the human CAPACITY for intelligence.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't talked about anywhere. Nootropics, drugs, human/machine interface, and eventually genetic manipulation may be candidates.

 

Why isn't this realized? What will it take so that our culture will embrace this sort of self improvement?

[bobcollett 10]

The results are in: humans are too stupid to solve the greatest problems we must solve. The only answer is that people must develop methods to increase their intelligence. The most pressing problem of our time is how we can develop the human CAPACITY for intelligence.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't talked about anywhere. Nootropics, drugs, human/machine interface, and eventually genetic manipulation may be candidates.

 

Why isn't this realized? What will it take so that our culture will embrace this sort of self improvement?

 

Hi Predictor

Interesting question.

If you give 9 coal miners and a geologist the vote, who decides where to dig the shaft?

Thats democracy. A flawed concept.

That vote must be qualified. And in business it usually is..... the provider of capital has the vote.

Then the coal miners vote one of their members in goverment

And this clown now regulates the capital provider.

We can already realize and solve most problems.Provided our leaders are geologists and not miners.

regards

bobc

s

[SIUYA 11]

some environmentalists would argue that it has been the use of our intellegence that has caused a lot of the problems in the world today....

 

I think the world already has plenty of examples of where we are trying to improve our intelligence - the use of computers, scientific methods, university, political and legal reforms - I mean what is the point you are really trying to get at - plus dont forget you always need someone to build the roads - unfortunately if everyone is in touch with their top capacity do you think we could find folks who want to do this?

Hey Joe - why you leaning on that shovel? -

because I am at one with the universe, but I only got two phds, I need at least 4 to get off this road crew and into driving the tar truck

[Predictor 11]

We've what 6 billion+ people. As our population increases, IF we are smart enough then we find new solutions: we get stronger not weaker. But if we're not smart enough then we reach a tipping point and die out. Beyond that,. the fact that so many problems aren't solved today presents a real question of what's gone wrong.

 

The first step is to raise the intelligence. This will help to solve all other problems. I am not talking about education either. I'm talking about overcoming our basic limitations.

 

Maybe, it boils down to an empathy test. What's the nature of humanity?

 

some environmentalists would argue that it has been the use of our intellegence that has caused a lot of the problems in the world today....

 

I think the world already has plenty of examples of where we are trying to improve our intelligence - the use of computers, scientific methods, university, political and legal reforms - I mean what is the point you are really trying to get at - plus dont forget you always need someone to build the roads - unfortunately if everyone is in touch with their top capacity do you think we could find folks who want to do this?

Hey Joe - why you leaning on that shovel? -

because I am at one with the universe, but I only got two phds, I need at least 4 to get off this road crew and into driving the tar truck

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

Nootropics, drugs, human/machine interface, and eventually genetic manipulation may be candidates.

 

I take it you've seen the film 'Limitless'?

 

BlueHorseshoe

[bobcollett 10]

I take it you've seen the film 'Limitless'?

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

Hi BlueHorseshoe,

No. I haven't seen "Limitless"

Whats it all about?

regards

bobc

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

Hi BlueHorseshoe,

No. I haven't seen "Limitless"

Whats it all about?

regards

bobc

 

A wonder drug that dramaticallly improves intelligence, giving the user the ability to perceive complex and obscure relationships. The film's protagonist initially uses the drug to 'beat' the stock market, although I think by the end of the film he's running for president or something silly . . .

 

Not especially recommended unless you have a few hours to kill.

 

BlueHorseshoe

[Predictor 11]

The other problem associated with the great problem is that we humans aren't very good at transferring experience. Death robs us on many levels but especially it robs our experience. Yes, we have written records, education, etc but there is no direct way to transfer experience. So, people with experience spend years trying to convey that experience. Much better to transfer it directly..

 

Now, in terms of nootropics already available. The weight lifting supplement creatine is readily available and can provide some benefits. Obviously, we need something an order of a magnitude more powerful. One problem is that our culture/society tends to shun assistance and enhancement whereas, imo, we need to encourage enhancements.

 

Look how most models look and most will admit they are taking steroids. Now, let's ask ourselves a question, obesity is the epidemic we are facing and we don't have any drugs that work. But, how much attention has steroids received as a possible treatment option?

 

Computers help but they don't expand our narrow conscious processing abilities. Think about this.. let's imagine it cost 50 billion to produce a significant intelligence enhancing drug.. but no matter the cost, once its produced and distributed widely then the net productivity of our world will increase by an order of a magnitude.

[SIUYA 11]

One problem is that our culture/society tends to shun assistance and enhancement whereas, imo, we need to encourage enhancements.

 

Look how most models look and most will admit they are taking steroids. Now, let's ask ourselves a question, obesity is the epidemic we are facing and we don't have any drugs that work. But, how much attention has steroids received as a possible treatment option?

 

long bow here Predictor - have you noticed the growth in the pharma industry lately- the fact that the world is getting older on average, and that obesity is more a result of diet and exercise - and you want a pill for those without the intelligence to understand that??? Plus while models might take enhancements lets not forget they probably have two other factors that make more of a difference - genes, and hard work.

(even drug enhanced sports people work hard at it - there is no substitute for that)

 

If you take the view that humans have been actively using tools for the past 100,000 years, and modernising rapidly in the last 2000 yrs, exponentially in the last 100 years, i think you will get what you want - and my guess is we will either have many of the same problems we have now, and a whole new set of problems.....I dont follow your rationale for a super pill if you are after productivity gains...

[Predictor 11]

There is a story that humans are constantly improving. There is belief that today we are bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, and that we're making scientific breakthroughs everyday. World records are broken and that reinforces the story.

 

There is another story that humans haven't changed all that much and that most of the improvement we've seen, for example improvements in world records, are primarily due to technology and drugs.

 

If you look at say life expectancy then it appears to have risen sharply but I can go back to the 1920's and find stories where people generally felt that a good life expectancy is similar to what we have today. This is causing me some doubts that the top life expectancy has changed and like today we had people claiming/believing they could live forever if they ate right, didn't smoke etc.

 

Speaking of smoking, the story goes that in the 1970's or 80's or whatever that it was uncovered that the cigarette companies discovered and hid that smoking caused cancer. But, there were reports from the 1900's that linked smoking and cancer. It was well established even in the early 1900s. Ask yourself why did the media create a big story out of it as if a question even existed? It was already established.

 

I believe that humans haven't changed that much. Now, there are more of us then ever, and we still haven't solved even basic problems. One idea is that as we get more people then we get more capacity to meet our needs, more geniuses, and more discoveries. The competing idea is that we over populate and die out.

 

In my mind, the people who view over population as a core problem (rather then a temporary issue) have it all wrong. The problem is that we're too stupid. There is a need for transformative technology. Technology that improves the brain but doesn't have the normal conditions associated with drug use.

 

Bernanke has mentioned gross national happiness. Why do you think that is? Is it because he recognized that our current consumer mentality isn't producing happiness and isn't sustainable? that its simply not working...

[TheNegotiator 13]

The results are in: humans are too stupid to solve the greatest problems we must solve. The only answer is that people must develop methods to increase their intelligence. The most pressing problem of our time is how we can develop the human CAPACITY for intelligence.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't talked about anywhere. Nootropics, drugs, human/machine interface, and eventually genetic manipulation may be candidates.

 

Why isn't this realized? What will it take so that our culture will embrace this sort of self improvement?

 

First off, I don't think humans are "too stupid" as you put it. I think there's a long way to go though in maximising our potential and creating then harnessing tools to help us do so. The arrogance of man (and lack of ability/desire to accept new understanding) has clearly been observable throughout the ages.

 

However, there's a more important point to make. I'd like to point out that I'm not religious in any way whatsoever but, Seven Deadly Sins is man's problem in a nutshell.

 

In many ways, it's also a trader's struggle to be successful in the markets. Perhaps we should put all the successful traders in charge of the world. Oh no :doh: I don't think that's going to work somehow :rofl:

 

Anyway, my point is that man's actions are rarely motivated by any good intentions for the benefit of the world rather than themselves. Maybe we should change your intelligence pill into some emotion pill like in Equilibrium. Although as in the movie, that creates a whole new set of problems...

[SIUYA 11]

There is a story that humans are constantly improving. There is belief that today we are bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, and that we're making scientific breakthroughs everyday. World records are broken and that reinforces the story.

 

There is another story that humans haven't changed all that much and that most of the improvement we've seen, for example improvements in world records, are primarily due to technology and drugs.

 

If you look at say life expectancy then it appears to have risen sharply but I can go back to the 1920's and find stories where people generally felt that a good life expectancy is similar to what we have today. This is causing me some doubts that the top life expectancy has changed and like today we had people claiming/believing they could live forever if they ate right, didn't smoke etc.

 

Speaking of smoking, the story goes that in the 1970's or 80's or whatever that it was uncovered that the cigarette companies discovered and hid that smoking caused cancer. But, there were reports from the 1900's that linked smoking and cancer. It was well established even in the early 1900s. Ask yourself why did the media create a big story out of it as if a question even existed? It was already established.

 

I believe that humans haven't changed that much. Now, there are more of us then ever, and we still haven't solved even basic problems. One idea is that as we get more people then we get more capacity to meet our needs, more geniuses, and more discoveries. The competing idea is that we over populate and die out.

 

In my mind, the people who view over population as a core problem (rather then a temporary issue) have it all wrong. The problem is that we're too stupid. There is a need for transformative technology. Technology that improves the brain but doesn't have the normal conditions associated with drug use.

 

Bernanke has mentioned gross national happiness. Why do you think that is? Is it because he recognized that our current consumer mentality isn't producing happiness and isn't sustainable? that its simply not working...

 

one of these completely off world topics open to anything.....

 

I agree - science has not necessarily made people live longer - its increased the average life expectancy - ie; it has not slowed the aging process, all it has done is keep older people old and healthier for longer, otherwise you would choose to stop aging somewhere between 18-36 (my choice age would be 28-32)...the wonderful world of averages where half of us will always be below average!

 

If you are talking about happiness - well it could be argued that the pursuit of happiness is fruitless in off itself, and again a lot just boils down to the desire to find peace with ones self (in what ever form that might take) and I dont know if extra intellegence will help there....maybe it might hinder as we will constantly be questioning and researching why.

 

Regardless of the time, age and country there are generally accepted things that make people happy - these are friends, family, goals and an acceptance of the small things in life (to paraphrase and others are better qualified to comment on this) - non of these require more intelligence than what he have already.

and who says humans have a problem - maybe the highs and lows, the turmoils and troubles are what make us human.......too many sci fi scenarios here.

 

Maybe the world just needs a chill pill.

[MightyMouse 12]

Why is bigger, faster, stronger, longer, or etc, categorized as better? Bigger is only better if you are insecure. Faster is only better if you are impatient. Stronger is only better if you are weak and feel inferior. Longer is only better if you fear death.

 

You can argue that the progress we have made over the last 200 years tremendously upsets the balances of nature which for eons was maintained perfectly by the less technologically advanced humans and animals. If we say that we are the most intelligent species on the planet because we have the ability to reason, It is both a self serving and arrogant statement to make. I am more intelligent than a squirrel because i can develop a hand held video game to play with during my leisure time and a squirrel cannot. But part of the planet needs to be destroyed to develop my video game. No action taken by the squirrel destroys the planet. Arguably a squirrel does more to preserve the planet than we do. Preserving the planet is in essence preservation of your species. We are not preserving the planet for our species. All that matters is us and now. Ego an arrogance at its best.

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

There is a story that humans are constantly improving. There is belief that today we are bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, and that we're making scientific breakthroughs everyday. World records are broken and that reinforces the story.

 

You'd probably enjoy either of the following two excellent books by John Gray:

 

'Heresies: Against Progress and Other Illusions'.

'Straw Dogs - Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals'

 

BlueHorseshoe

[Obsidian 10]

We've what 6 billion+ people. As our population increases, IF we are smart enough then we find new solutions: we get stronger not weaker....

 

unfortunately, our ego and greed are always 10 steps ahead of our intelligence

[rplust 10]

unfortunately, our ego and greed are always 10 steps ahead of our intelligence

 

Exactly! Indeed we haven't changed that much or at all. Or as one writer put it ( I'll try to translate it from German language) " cars are getting better, people don't". Meaning we put effort into the progress of almost everything except ourselves. But as long as power and money direct our lives, we are doomed.

[TheDude 10]

The results are in: humans are too stupid to solve the greatest problems we must solve. The only answer is that people must develop methods to increase their intelligence. The most pressing problem of our time is how we can develop the human CAPACITY for intelligence.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't talked about anywhere. Nootropics, drugs, human/machine interface, and eventually genetic manipulation may be candidates.

 

Why isn't this realized? What will it take so that our culture will embrace this sort of self improvement?

 

Really?

 

I'd kind of put clean water for the entire population, and enough food up there before some crank AI project.

 

Population reduction would be a close 2nd. There simply arent enough resources to satisfy demand. Maybe the Chinese had the right idea in limiting couples to 1 kid?

 

Did you know the Earths population has doubled since 1950?

[Predictor 11]

Let's agree that each human brain has a certain capacity for solving problems then it is easy to see that the more brains the world has then the greater the computational POWER of the human race becomes. In fact, somethings that we have today aren't going to be possible with a smaller population.

 

Imagine that a true genius that could solve a pressing problem is as rare as 1 out of a 100 million. The more "100 millions" we have then the greater the odds that such a rare genius will exist.

 

Humans have outgrown our resources many times in the past. Our best chance for meaningful survival requires a large and intelligent population. If we could increase the intelligence of everyone by just a small measure then the net processing power increase would be dramatic. This might allow us to figure out how to solve these sorts of problems you mention.

 

Why waste time on 1 or 2 problems when you can solve every problem ? The solution to every problem is a more intelligent population. I don't mean education, either -- though that's useful. I mean fundamentally an inherently smarter species. The conscious field is very narrow.. doubling our 6-7 item short term memory would give humans tremendously more ability. Even just that little bit of improvement, in effect a 14 item limit, would enable a complete novice in many fields to perform as an accomplished expert.

 

The other problem is that people see themselves as inherently separate.. always at competition. There is a lack of respect for differences of others and others rights. A growing imperialist mindset that could be very dangerous for our species.

 

Also note that water is a renewable resource..

 

Really?

 

I'd kind of put clean water for the entire population, and enough food up there before some crank AI project.

 

Population reduction would be a close 2nd. There simply arent enough resources to satisfy demand. Maybe the Chinese had the right idea in limiting couples to 1 kid?

 

Did you know the Earths population has doubled since 1950?

[johnw 10]

unfortunately, our ego and greed are always 10 steps ahead of our intelligence

 

 

Yes I quite agree ... Intelligence as we acknowledge it is much overrated ... even birds don't sh.t in their own nest and we regard them as dumb creatures.

 

It is our humanity we need to grow, but it is at loggerheads with fear, ego and greed.

And so basically we have never outgrown our fear.

[Vaughn 10]

Predictor, You are kidding...right? Human intelligence has brought us to the place we are now. Full of knowledge, yet never learning. Producing more food than ever, yet more people are starving than ever. More power, yet more destruction. Medical professionals kill the most innocent among us by the millions, politicians fleece their own sheep, ad infinitum.

 

The solution to human problems is not...more human intelligence. It is beyond. So far beyond that, sorry to say, man will never find it. For the finite cannot comprehend, let alone approach, the Infinite. You're right, it's not lookin' good for Adam and his descendents, is it?

 

However, there is a Way, a Truth, and a Life. It's just not a matter of intelligence. No coon up that tree.

[Baker 10]

i think most people are just completely uninterested in acquiring things that cant be bought aka the most important things in life (knowledge, fitness, kindess, etc). its the "if it doesnt get you a lexus then why do it?" mentality.

[SunTrader 10]

There are far too many examples to cite where "intelligence" gets in the way of progress.

 

Add: What is going on with some posts, like this one, where lines of text are being truncated?

[SIUYA 11]

Let's agree that each human brain has a certain capacity for solving problems then it is easy to see that the more brains the world has then the greater the computational POWER of the human race becomes. In fact, somethings that we have today aren't going to be possible with a smaller population.

 

Imagine that a true genius that could solve a pressing problem is as rare as 1 out of a 100 million. The more "100 millions" we have then the greater the odds that such a rare genius will exist.

 

The odds dont change by your own estimates - we just end up having a few extra geniuses to deal with the 100mil extra problems - they might say the genius solution is to eliminate a lot of the problems - humans have been down this path before - usually when we feel we have outgrown our resources. why not just stick with 1 genius and 100mill people.....and do we need all the great ideas that geniuses have given us??? or are they a matter of the problems the many have caused that geniuses then need to solve???

 

Why waste time on 1 or 2 problems when you can solve every problem ? The solution to every problem is a more intelligent population. I don't mean education, either -- though that's useful. I mean fundamentally an inherently smarter species. The conscious field is very narrow.. doubling our 6-7 item short term memory would give humans tremendously more ability. Even just that little bit of improvement, in effect a 14 item limit, would enable a complete novice in many fields to perform as an accomplished expert.

 

well i think first you need to define the problem - you say its our intelligence, but then you say it more practical things......where is it you wish to get to. A Vulcan like planet? or maybe the most intelligent one is whereby we let mother nature take it course.....

(Plus if you have ever dealt with a woman who has selective memory - do you want them to remember more......:doh:)

 

Also note that water is a renewable resource..

 

Also note water is a finite resource as well.....the problem with water is that it has to be usable, and in the right place at the right time - storage and transport are two major issues - Currently the world has plenty.....

 

 

Predictor - you were always opening the box on this one..... and the crazies will start to come out.

[zdo 20]

Predictor - you were always opening the box on this one..... and the crazies will start to come out.

I guess that's my cue

... like the crazies didn't already start coming out :razzzz:

 

I wouldn't necessarily go so biblical, but Vaughn's post above is the essence of how I would reply to Predictor's thinking too. At this point, more of the "problem solving" smarts Predictor is pushing for would only be fodder for the evil 'intentions' that rule the day...

[SunTrader 10]

....... At this point, more of the "problem solving" smarts Predictor is pushing for would only be fodder for the evil 'intentions' that rule the day...

An example would be something that was called The Final Solution.