Is Scalping Really Dead?

[SIUYA 11]

re "not for everyone" and "HFT firms almost never have losing days"

It is "low risk" but it is not "high" profit... it is very good steady income (and it is only occasionally adrenalinizing)

If it didn't produce runs of 100+ and often 200+ without a loss I'm pretty sure I would lose interest in doing it at all. When I do get behind, I get serious and get it back before the day is over and if I don't... I know precisely what figure I've got to surpass the next day.

 

 

thanks for the experience feedback zdo....especially showing there are many ways to do it. (the catch all term of scalping, or jobbing)

 

one question I have --- what do you mean by 100+, 200+ without a loss --- are you talking about number of trades?

 

also what would be the rough percentage (not dollar amounts) of profit - net and gross - to you and the broker.

 

I ask as when I was a market maker, and we could see it becoming more computerised and a different race, we changed our styles a fair bit.

One reason was that while profitable, we hated paying the brokers/clearers/exchanges so much. (Scottish blood in me), plus we would have ended up competing against the larger firms that have two IT staff to every trader.

We modified to having less trades, less costs, bigger margins so to speak......

 

(My idea of the adrenaline, was that image of people banging away on a computer, focused, manic that too many people get....doing 5000 trades to make $1000....not for me...if my computer could do it that would be another story......)

thanks.

[TheDude 10]

HFT is not scalping

 

HFT is a broad term used for many different tactics.algos and procedures

HFT dont trade for tick movements...

 

They go for example for statistical arbs wich will occure in split seconds

Or go for rebate trading ie. Adding liquidity

For flashing and internalization but i guess only on equitys

Trading inside the bid and ask spread etc.

Algos against algos

 

And so forth

 

Not scalping for ticks

 

Indeed - with the exception of market making strategies. Many of the HFT firms will be trading multiples of different trade strategies. They simply take a strategy with a positive sharp ratio, and put the execution of the strategy into the HFT module. The trader sits there, monitors it, turns it on/off accordingly, and gets the developers to tweak it according to changing volatility etc.

 

Stacking the book as soon as a market opens, or as soon as a price 'leaves' is how they get at the front of the queue.

 

For anyone interested in learning more about HFT, what it is, etc, Irene Aldridge has written some good material.

 

I dont know why everyone gets so hung up about HFT. The order book is still an order book.

 

Adapt or die has always been the motto of the trader since Jesus was a boy.

[SIUYA 11]

I dont know why everyone gets so hung up about HFT. The order book is still an order book.

 

 

I was with you on this...however started reading the recomended book dark pools by patterson.... interesting. Initially they are talking about HFT as being what we used to do as option market makers with pencil and paper.....however even these guys are not sure where its heading.

 

For me, if people are getting access to information before others then its is insider trading, if they are able to read information and data mine information better and then act on it quicker than others then its fine.....because what is it that actually makes them the money....speed, data mining and better insignt, inside info, combinations, different option valuation models, better market direction analysis to scalp better ?????

 

Sorry if its getting a bit off scalping topic,,,,maybe it needs a whole new one in itself.

[Predictor 11]

Speed mostly.. better models too. Some people try to use HFT as marketing term and some have proposed definitions at odds with the facts. Here are some definitions

 

HFT -> Trading that REQUIRES being co-located at exchange and involves a very high # of trades.

Algorithmic -> Trading that is defined by a defined series of steps.May not be HFT. May be HFT.

 

First, there are many different types of HFTS I'm sure. They can be broken down into for example..

 

Complex Event/Arbs -> These bots may scan hundreds of instruments looking for anomalies

Rebate Trading -> Try to break even but profit from rebates

Technical -> Trading on any number of technical or mathematical patterns

 

The HFT in the equities are able to get enhanced order information. They place orders with the goal to flip them and they pull orders when the market starts to run. Some bots are even though to do a crude DOS attacks.

 

There is a lot of algorithmic activity in futures, as well. But the particulars of what the HFT system gets is specific to the exchange.. Exchanges like BATS and NASDAQ have create a structure to benefit HFT while the futures are a bit different.

 

 

 

because what is it that actually makes them the money....speed, data mining and better insignt, inside info, combinations, different option valuation models, better market direction analysis to scalp better ?????

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

I'm afraid that I'm probably guilty of dragging this thread off topic by mentioning HFT . . .

 

Several of you have obviously worked on the floors of exchanges scalping various instruments. It would be great if someone could give a more detailed account of what scalping used to entail in the pits - when markets became more electronic, what were the signs you noticed as a scalper?

 

I'd also be fascinated to read an account from anyone else like ZDO who actively scalps today using a retail trading platform. Why do you think that a small handful of traders are able to do this, while a whole bunch of others (like me!) just don't get it?

 

BlueHorseshoe

[MightyMouse 12]

I'm afraid that I'm probably guilty of dragging this thread off topic by mentioning HFT . . .

 

Several of you have obviously worked on the floors of exchanges scalping various instruments. It would be great if someone could give a more detailed account of what scalping used to entail in the pits - when markets became more electronic, what were the signs you noticed as a scalper?

 

I'd also be fascinated to read an account from anyone else like ZDO who actively scalps today using a retail trading platform. Why do you think that a small handful of traders are able to do this, while a whole bunch of others (like me!) just don't get it?

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

Watch " Floored" or "Pit". each describes the transition from floor pit to electronic.

[windsurfer 10]

BlueHorseShoe wrote:

 

Several of you have obviously worked on the floors of exchanges scalping various instruments. It would be great if someone could give a more detailed account of what scalping used to entail in the pits - when markets became more electronic, what were the signs you noticed as a scalper?

 

There is a 77 minute documentary called Floored that gives a good idea:

FLOORED | Babelgum

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the links. I have already seen 'Floored'. Although it was fascinating, it focussed more on the traders themselves, exchange culture, and emotional responses to the decline of floor trading, I thought. There was never really any 'technical' detail about what they did in, say, the 80s, and exactly how Globex later impacted on it. Rightly so, as that obviously wasn't what the film was intended to to document and it would have made it boring to most people, but hopefully you get my point.

 

Thanks

 

BlueHorseshoe

[SIUYA 11]

Several of you have obviously worked on the floors of exchanges scalping various instruments. It would be great if someone could give a more detailed account of what scalping used to entail in the pits - when markets became more electronic, what were the signs you noticed as a scalper?

 

it came in various forms, depending of definitions....

futures floor - people would front run orders as they were signaled into the pit, or people would be able to trade on their own accounts while operating client orders.

They would then purchase 20 contracts - ideally at the bid- prior to or while purchasing the clients 1000 contracts.....immediately going on the offer for their 20 knowing there is the bid of 1000....if their bid starts getting hit, they save themselves the last 20 and get out for BE.

Traders would also market make as such, being on the bid and offer all the time, revolving and keeping a tally of their inventory....Also this works really well in those instruments that did not have large ranges, and so the bid and offer might have swapped but not much more.

 

market making options - slightly different but much the same (a simplified version)....your edge was in building a book of options and underlying instruments whereby the edge was the spread around the theoretical value of the options. eg; client A bids, 20c for an option worth 19, client B offers a different option (Put or call, or different strike, series etc;) at 43c which is theoretically worth 45. The market maker trade both, hedge it with the underlying if needed and do this continually. (so long as major moves in vol, IR etc dont destroy the theoretical too much) they have made 3 cents.

Alternatively in the more liquid option series, they might sit on the bid at 19, offer at 21 for an option worth 20c.

or they might spread things against other instruments - pairs trading....

They also might be part of an overall book, that is hedged against a portfolio.

 

jobbing /scalping in my world was basically buying and selling quickly just looking to take lots of small clips.

To me and a friend at the time we often discussed that this was going to become more computerised and fast and IT dominated. Speed would play a part and we thought there was more value in learning to trade longer term bigger picture stuff. There was also more value in building portfolios for what we were doing at the time. While we still took advantage of scalping opportunities that was not the main focus.

The signs were the fact when it went electronic, you would not even see orders appear, just the trades and volume. Also you still competed against people front running, and over the phone orders (on the floor you could always get involved on a "first best voice")

[PrymeTyme 10]

Some interresting stuff:

 

 

William Greenspan on Daytrading .. and as u can see by the presentation

its probably Pre-HFT

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpotJYahINk&feature=related]Legendary floor trader William Greenspan - Day Trading Made Simple - YouTube[/ame]

 

here a floor man of modern times:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fNnt3s29GM&feature=relmfu]Ben Lichtenstein @tradersaudio and Matt Davio aka @misstrade talk Sounds of the PIT Trading - YouTube[/ame]

 

 

 

some nice videos and webinars (free) from a futures trader/Scalper

 

Chat Archive | FuturesTrader71

 

nice thread and read .. (Maverick)

 

Forums - TAPE READING (chat room cont.)

Edited July 21, 2012 by PrymeTyme

[TheDude 10]

I'm afraid that I'm probably guilty of dragging this thread off topic by mentioning HFT . . .

 

...

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

Dont be. I think they are a valid discussion point when talking about trading in the order book given they account for >50% volume (so were told).

 

If the market is 1500 lots offered and 1000 lots are taken immediately, if the remaining 500 start to disappear or start to refresh - instantly going back to say 1200, you know some algo/person really wants to sell. The rules are the same, it just happens a little quicker.

 

Let them spend gaziilion dollars on FPGA cards etc if they want to be the first in to refresh. I can either pay up a tick or get behind them. If I get behind them, I'm still a loser probably when I get filled, but if I jump in front and hit the bid, making me a tick off automatically, at least Im in and have the 1200 to lean on knowing others are seeing the same thing and probably thinking the same....

[MightyMouse 12]

Some interresting stuff:

 

 

William Greenspan on Daytrading .. and as u can see by the presentation

its probably Pre-HFT

Legendary floor trader William Greenspan - Day Trading Made Simple - YouTube

 

here a floor man of modern times:

 

 

 

 

some nice videos and webinars (free) from a futures trader/Scalper

 

Chat Archive | FuturesTrader71

 

nice thread and read .. (Maverick)

 

Forums - TAPE READING (chat room cont.)

 

Wow, the Greenspan clip is from the 80's. I didn't watch the whole thing, but he referred to GNP and program trading which they haven't used in eons, I suspect it was right around the time that Alan Greenspan took over for Paul Volcker.

 

Nice find

[rdial54 10]

Scalping is not dead. Day trading is not dead. Swing trading is not dead. Pick your strategy then read up on it and study it. Define your rules and your goals. Practice a little and then put it to use and evaluate and adjust. Trading takes time to master. Sticking to a plan and managing your emotions is the key. Learn before you earn.

[zdo 20]

BlueHorseshoe,

re:

“What do you trade” ?

 

For indexes at this frame, I trade*

1) ES (using setups from YM chart btw… almost perfect directional correlation)

2) NQ under certain conditions

3) YM under certain conditions

 

I also take setups on the thicker energy contracts, treasuries, and main FX futures (and ags, at certain ‘times of the month’ ) via almost same setups but with slightly longer ‘timeframes’. I say “almost the same” because, for example, in treasury instruments the odds are on breakout type setups, so the other types are often ‘neglected’ unless I’m already synched up with an instrument…

 

Also, I’m confident I could do ok in spread costed EURUSD, GPDUSD, etc. fx contracts

the recent motivation for automation work I'm doing has been specifically tied to capturing the action in the ‘european session’ and instruments from 2 AM ET to US ‘open’.

For example, a market entry would typically put the trade down +~ $14.00 in the EURUSD... at that time of night (only), I currently would be just as comfortable overcoming that $14 as I would dealing with the commission and occasional slip,etc in fx futures…

 

re “what is a typical adverse excursion for you when trading for a one tick profit?”

I may scrap and scramble back to one tick profit when necessary, but it’s very very rare that I intentionally trade for a one tick profit. The setups set up high prob closer to an overall average of 3 + ticks – and that’s being very ‘ungreedy’.

 

re: “adversity” When reversal setups are formed, price has typically already pushed ‘further’ several times but when I start clicking in it may still go quite a few more ticks into adversity

 

in retracement / continuation entries, because I may have to start clicking in early to make sure of participating ie way beforea retracement is over, entries are often even less precise and often have relatively more temporal adversity than price adversity … initial stops are wider for these too. Thankfully many of the 'standard' struggles are ameliorated by early identification of congestion via MarketTyping

 

ie besides saying the max initial OSO’d stops are sub $100 per car, I can’t really discuss “typical” generalized adversity … it ultimately would be a misuse of the ‘ cohort’ for the sake of convenience… more accurately - there is a somewhat “typical” adversity for each system in each MarketType … ie a matrix of adversity.

 

re MarketTyping

The systems really aren’t the key here… Actually they are quite ”dumb”. Each system, stand alone, would be nearly run of the mill. The important ingredient is quanitified auction typing. Same intent as subjectively noting and “characterizing markets” but again, this is quantified/codified and much much more granular than typical reading of market conditions. ….It’s similar to algorithmic ‘music typing’… price adversity in certain ‘cadences’ is da nada. In other cadences, it means get out now (and even reverse in a few situations)

If the setups weren’t filtered and weighted by MarketTyping, ie taking every one of them would be middle of the pack type stuff and wouldn’t be any “ fun” to trade at all…

A secondary but key element of the composite ‘edge’ is limiting trades to certain places in price’s relation to dynamic ‘envelopes’. “Safety”, in this approach, is at the extremes. Trouble / real adversity comes from getting in in the ‘middle’… instantaneous trip back into the world of struggling just to clear ‘one tick’ etc.

 

 

//////////////////

 

SUIYA, re:

“one question I have --- what do you mean by 100+, 200+ without a loss --- are you talking about number of trades?”

Yes. I get aligned and long runs just happen. I enjoy them as they extend (but usually don’t keep a count or think about it specifically)… and then sometimes don’t think about how long it was since the last loss until a loss occurs or I make a mistake. The work is about the same even in runs of runs and in runs of no runs … The real work for me is getting back in form (a very important aspect, btw) asap if all of a sudden I start making multiple mistakes (not to be confused with a string of trades that just plain don’t work out, btw)

 

re :: “also what would be the rough percentage (not dollar amounts) of profit - net and gross - to you and the broker.

 

I ask as when I was a market maker, and we could see it becoming more computerised and a different race, we changed our styles a fair bit.

One reason was that while profitable, we hated paying the brokers/clearers/exchanges so much. (Scottish blood in me…

We modified to having less trades, less costs, bigger margins so to speak......

 

(My idea of the adrenaline, was that image of people banging away on a computer, focused, manic that too many people get....doing 5000 trades to make $1000....not for me...if my computer could do it that would be another story......)"

...

 

“…changed our styles a fair bit”

 

I understand. Past a certain point, high / disproportionate ’costs’ would de-motivate me… Haven’t reached that point yet. Overall, costs have plummeted since I began trading back in the mid 80’s… they’ve leveled off the last few years… and I’m always wondering if and how they might creep back up. At the end of the day, usually I have no issues with / I can ignore and ‘forget’ the 7 – 20 % the broker got for these sessions.

I don’t know how far past 20% to the house I could truly and healthily adapt to…

 

and re: “We modified to having less trades, less costs......5000 trades to make $1000....not for me”

:haha: not for me either . that’s net 20 cents a trade... sounds like getting up every morning and restarting a game of "how many trades before my day is ruined?"

 

Please pardon the lag in replying... didn't stay around much Fri and had sort of thought this thread was 'dropped' by now...

 

 

 

* btw I don’t think of it in terms of the word “scalping” in day to day use… for me, the word “scalping” still retains its original nearly at the bid and ask, working the intel of order and emotion flow, floor trader associations …

[steve46 12]

Can't really do more than make reference to this because I am in the midst of a professional class....

 

In terms of what scalping used to be, I recognize some of the comments. Clearly if you have the luxury of seeing the order flow before the public does, that is (used to be) a significant advantage....however in markets that are now dominated by professional interests working mostly upstairs, that is mostly gone....and of course being able to turn to the guy next to you to get out when things went wrong was also a nice perk. I don't miss getting elbowed, stabbed with pencils, stepped on by folks wearing platform heels, spit on, and having my hearing go slowly south because of the decibel levels....and that was just while putting my coat on (just kidding)...

 

and on to the important part....some of you may be offended but...scalping today has not much to do with what you folks are talking about...at least not when it comes to making serious money.....first I can't imagine a retail trader scalping anything.....you just cannot overcome expenses paying retail commission..I am sure people think it is possible, but in the end it is not viable as a single game profession....you have to have (own or lease) a membership on one of the exchanges to even have a chance at making money that way....

 

As far as the mechanics again it isn't anything like any of you have posted....why because of the preponderance of automated execution....talking about S&P futures now....the noise to signal ratio isn't there and it becomes very difficult if not impossible to quantify risk AT ANY LEVEL.....unless you understand how the bots work and where to take your shot....and I don't hear any of you displaying that understanding...

 

Strangely enough one of you posted that IF you had a scalping program and you got on the right side, why not let it run......and for those who understand how automated execution works, that is exactly what "happened" to scalping....once folks (some folks) figured it out, they saw that the primary problem is to find a level of granularity (time scale on your charts) so that you can recognize when the programs are hitting.....once you learn to identify one (of the many) algorithmic patterns, you still have to read the tape, but THEN you have a truly high probabilty entry...and that is why you let it run.....because once you are on the right side....odds of getting more than a couple of ticks are significant...why is that....because the other programs tend to piggyback early moves off of a reversal, and that process creates a circular momentum that lasts for 6-8 ticks just on its own....

Edited July 24, 2012 by steve46

[SIUYA 11]

re :: “also what would be the rough percentage (not dollar amounts) of profit - net and gross - to you and the broker.

 

I understand. Past a certain point, high / disproportionate ’costs’ would de-motivate me… Haven’t reached that point yet. Overall, costs have plummeted since I began trading back in the mid 80’s… they’ve leveled off the last few years… and I’m always wondering if and how they might creep back up. At the end of the day, usually I have no issues with / I can ignore and ‘forget’ the 7 – 20 % the broker got for these sessions.

I don’t know how far past 20% to the house I could truly and healthily adapt to…

 

yes costs have certainly come down, and why it is important to keep an eye on those.

They might creep back up with more regulation, and more insurance as a result of MFG,PFG but I think the low fees are here to stay.

 

When we were equity option market making it was amazing to hear the costs involved, and this was on low fees, and hence looking at it in terms of percentages makes sense.

Our clearer at the time also cleared many others

The clearer one Christmas party told us they measured their clients based on how much as a ratio costs were to the exchange, brokers, clearers, for every dollar profit....we were at the low end of the range, slightly less than 23c/$1, after dropping it all as high turn over traders we maintained the profitability but dropped to 2c/$1. the average was 45c/$1. That was eye watering.

 

(remember this was Oz, one central equity exchange not multiple ones - and we also were one (if not the first) world exchange to become fully electronic. Makes me double take sometimes when reading about how slow the amalgamation of many US exchanges was , and the spreads people had to put up with - Oz had an open market, 1c spreads, the depth freely available, one market - no wonder everyone wanted to beat Wall st. I will recommended again the book Dark Pools - Scott Patterson - enjoying its history as a read as well.)

[SIUYA 11]

and on to the important part....some of you may be offended but...scalping today has not much to do with what you folks are talking about...

 

hence the heading of the thread Steve

 

As far as the mechanics again it isn't anything like any of you have posted....why because of the preponderance of automated execution....talking about S&P futures now....the noise to signal ratio isn't there and it becomes very difficult if not impossible to quantify risk AT ANY LEVEL.....unless you understand how the bots work and where to take your shot....and I don't hear any of you displaying that understanding...

 

I dont think many of the bot operators do either....which is why they keep evolving.

Why dont you enlighten everyone, given you think that everyone elses experience is wrong. Enlighten everyone that does not understand, or who does not have your professional experience, or strangely enough might just have lucked on something.

[steve46 12]

Over the years I have accumulated a lot of experience with folks who program several forms of automated execution and although I don't claim to have the same level of expertise as a top level coder given enough time and many demonstrations, I learned to appreciate the elegance and economy of the code they produce....and the many nuances that experienced coders put into their creations....

 

Generally speaking the programs that intercept order flow and act on it are what interest me most....the actions they produce are imperceptible to traders working on any time frame larger than 1 min.....however if you go below that 1 min threshold and simply observe what you may see are the following.....

 

1. the importance of coordinating time and price

2. that there are repetitive patterns that occur at specific times throughout the day

3. these patterns tend to synchronize themselves with the origins and terminations of previous trend moves

 

One of the most interesting is rather simple in that it intercepts order flow, analyzes the content and matches it to context (order "condition" for example)...checking for acceleration that usually preceeds a move as orders matched exhaust volume in the queue (at each price).

Within that process it produces a pro-rata estimation of what it will take to "tip" the scales and start to move price directionally....from that point its not a great leap to producing an order, either to take profit or go flat...thats the basic outline of one of many automated scripts at work in today's market.

 

Thats about all I am willing to say about it at this point...

 

Best of luck to you...

Edited July 24, 2012 by steve46

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

Within that process it produces a pro-rata estimation of what it will take to "tip" the scales and start to move price directionally....from that point its not a great leap to producing an order, either to take profit or go flat...thats the basic outline of one of many automated scripts at work in today's market.

 

Now let me tell you about similar bots from firms B and C.

 

They aim to exploit the same opportunity. However, firm B performs their "pro-rata estimation" of the hidden state or 'tipping point' using Markov Models adapted to non-linear time series. Their estimation is a little different to that of your firm.

 

Firm C, meanwhile, well they use a process used for modelling half-life exponential decays in radioactive isotopes to derive their exits. Except they've modified it a little, fitting it to a data series by discounting jump processes, yada, yada, yada. They'll be executing an order around here as well, but not at the same point as your firm, or firm B.

 

What you now need to do is go through the alphahabet a few times to describe other firms. Then once you've finished you need to choose a whole new concept and go through the alphabet a few more times for that . . . And then repeat . . .

 

What have you got, Steve? That's right - 'alphabet soup'.

 

The idea that you (or indeed any single individual) has any kind of overview of how bots affect the market is not very plausible. There is no "basic outline".

 

Too many bots, you see . . .

 

BlueHorseshoe

[steve46 12]

Amazing........................

 

so we took a bit of a coffee break here and I posted this on everyone's screen....hope you won't mind as it helps to lighten the mood.....you see some of these folks were really taking a beating this year...so we all had a nice laugh (I appreciate your insight)...

 

and along side it, we have this attached screen showing one of my "implausible" and perhaps non-existent algo patterns. This one, at the bottom right hand side of the chart is "text book"

 

For the one or two folks who get it... over the last couple of months, I have posted several examples over in Negotiator's ES thread....On a generally down day, this one produced a 4 point move (so far)....I won't be posting these examples again...you see there's just "too many bots"....

Edited July 24, 2012 by steve46

[SIUYA 11]

hi Steve as that other thread has too many pages as well, do you know roughly where you posted them as part of an explanation of the auto bots trading as you see it.

I cant get much out of the picture you posted and thought I might go look your explanation up.

thanks.

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

 

and along side it, we have this attached screen showing one of my "implausible" and perhaps non-existent algo patterns. This one, at the bottom right hand side of the chart is "text book"

 

If you read my post more carefully you'll see that I didn't say that bots and algos are "implausible" - rather, I said that the idea that any individual has a comprehensive overview of the many different bots and algos and their impact upon the markets is implausible. They're not all doing the same thing in the same way, you see.

 

Let's hope you take greater care when you're looking for bots than you did when reading my post . . .

 

BlueHorseshoe

[swing_trader 10]

I have actually been working on algorithmic scalping recently and just started live trading the strategy this week. From what I can gather, it can't really be done efficiently by hand anymore. Slow reaction time not only makes you miss out on a lot of opportunities, but also also dramatically increases your risk.

 

However, doing it algorithmically is also difficult. The code to find the right market conditions to begin scalping is non-trivial and your code needs to be smart enough to stop scalping when conditions change (especially if you are doing it on a large scale over many symbols). However, if this is done properly (I think my implementation is fairly robust now after much trial and error), scalping IS still possible.

 

The question now is whether it is scalable. Small size non-hidden limit orders sent directly to the NASDAQ matching engine via OUCH has a decent chance of getting filled, but with so many quant scalpers out there nowadays, it's unclear whether it is possible to get a sizable enough number of shares to really roll in the big bucks.

[SIUYA 11]

keep on track Steve, - he licks his balls because he can, he sniffs butts, he probably eats s..t and rolls in the smell of dead animals......he is a dog, he is happy.why would the dog be embarrassed in front of you

 

Could you please point to a post in the thread you talked about which explains your previous post. I cant see the point you are trying to make, and as i dont trade the ES, I dont feel like reading 500+ pages.

Or if you are going to make the post here, then could you explain what you mean. Showing a chart without explanation just gets off topic.

 

There are clearly lots of types of bots, from those that execute and order over the day, breaking it up, to those trying to arb and spread, to those taking speculative positions based on order flow.

maybe there is scope for a new thread "how to pickup and profit from the bots"

 

 

As there are many variations of what is scalping, and bots etc, could you expand by how you can see these happening and how you profit from them.... when you say

 

"One of the most interesting is rather simple in that it intercepts order flow, analyzes the content and matches it to context (order "condition" for example)...checking for acceleration that usually preceeds a move as orders matched exhaust volume in the queue (at each price).

Within that process it produces a pro-rata estimation of what it will take to "tip" the scales and start to move price directionally....from that point its not a great leap to producing an order, either to take profit or go flat...thats the basic outline of one of many automated scripts at work in today's market.

"

 

thanks.

[TheNegotiator 13]

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