MP on excel

[gomes 10]

Hi, bobajob

I am late a bit to respond. excuse my laziness.

bobajob, you surprise me again. you are saying you don't use value areas on your MP chart. I would like to know how you trade without value areas. I imagined to trade without it, I probably can trade without it but will be much harder and number of trades I take will be much lesser then normal. Very interesting. It would be more like swing trade, buying and holding for certain amount of time. I would be looking at singles and high TPO areas and buying and selling tails. Value areas come onto table when these are not presented at the market. Thats all I can think of right now. I would like to hear your trading style with MP without value areas.

Regards

Humberto

[gomes 10]

Ok, I joined the spreadsheet.

 

Please note:

• You can plot many days as long as you have data (not too much because of restrictions in excel).
  
• This is note the last version but as I'm still working on it and have made a lot of changes in it, I can't share it for now. Probably in the near future .
  

 

Waiting for your feedbacks,

Thanks

 

Hi, Ryker

I thank you very much for sharing your MP excel spreadsheet.

I haven't seen many MP on ecxel but I can tell you that this is the best MP charts I have seen on excel. they are just great.

And I have to tell that the spreadsheet I downloaded, I tried to change the data and tried to create MP, I couldn't. Is there anyway to change the data and draw a new MP chart. If it is possible I will be glad to know that. Thanks again.

Regars

Humberto

[bobajob 10]

Humberto - I am not looking to swing trade - the trades I take - (not actual trades at this stage I must add - just theory) are all day trades. I am trying to put together a manual of my trading techniques. Unfortunately I feel I may have to ask a small price for this info - I have put alot of effort into it - and I will bundle it with an automated version of my MP learning tool. That is nowhere near ready yet however. I will post a pdfs of a few charts that highlight how you can trade without a value area. The main point is that the entire bell curve is either an acceptance level or it is rejected - that is about as specific as MP can get. I believe if you try to employ the 70% rule you will come unstuck. My opinion of course. You have to look for very high probability trades. You may want to look for a guy called Frank Butera at BalanceTrader. He has a video course that is quick cheap all things considered. I was a little disappointed at first with the depth of the course but with retrospect I think his actually focusses on the inportant points of MP and discards the esoteric. Take a look. It is worth it.

[ryker 10]

Hi, Ryker

I thank you very much for sharing your MP excel spreadsheet.

I haven't seen many MP on ecxel but I can tell you that this is the best MP charts I have seen on excel. they are just great.

And I have to tell that the spreadsheet I downloaded, I tried to change the data and tried to create MP, I couldn't. Is there anyway to change the data and draw a new MP chart. If it is possible I will be glad to know that. Thanks again.

Regars

Humberto

 

Thanks

 

This is a bit strange I have to say. First thing is that you must respect format in if not, it won't work. Second maybe scroll in the chart areato check if the chart is not somewhere where it's not visible? And third, if it's not working you should have an error message?

 

If it's still not working just contact me on PM and I'll take a closer look (but should work as I've tried it with at least 30 symbols, inclunding bonds, futures and forex...).

 

Ryker

[gomes 10]

Humberto - I am not looking to swing trade - the trades I take - (not actual trades at this stage I must add - just theory) are all day trades. I am trying to put together a manual of my trading techniques. Unfortunately I feel I may have to ask a small price for this info - I have put alot of effort into it - and I will bundle it with an automated version of my MP learning tool. That is nowhere near ready yet however. I will post a pdfs of a few charts that highlight how you can trade without a value area. The main point is that the entire bell curve is either an acceptance level or it is rejected - that is about as specific as MP can get. I believe if you try to employ the 70% rule you will come unstuck. My opinion of course. You have to look for very high probability trades. You may want to look for a guy called Frank Butera at BalanceTrader. He has a video course that is quick cheap all things considered. I was a little disappointed at first with the depth of the course but with retrospect I think his actually focusses on the inportant points of MP and discards the esoteric. Take a look. It is worth it.

 

Thanks for the info bobajob.

I wish you good luck with your manual you trying to put together. I can imagine it isn't easy job. Can you elaborate the sentence "The main point is that the entire bell curve is either an acceptance level or it is rejected - that is about as specific as MP can get.", do you mean that if prices traded inside the Yesterday's bell curve and stayed there certain amount of time and it shows acceptance. Also the shape of bell curve if market traded upper half of the profile it shows higher prices shows market accepted higher prices and market valued itself for higher prices. Is that what you mean. Also thanks for the advice, I will definitely take a look at Frank Butera guy. I know maybe you think I can't shut my mouth. Yes you are right, not even underwater. I will then look forward to seeing your pdfs. I am waiting with my four eyes wild open.

Regards

Humberto

[gomes 10]

Thanks

 

This is a bit strange I have to say. First thing is that you must respect format in if not, it won't work. Second maybe scroll in the chart areato check if the chart is not somewhere where it's not visible? And third, if it's not working you should have an error message?

 

If it's still not working just contact me on PM and I'll take a closer look (but should work as I've tried it with at least 30 symbols, inclunding bonds, futures and forex...).

 

Ryker

 

Hi, Ryker

I am sorry for my ignorance, I didn't mean I changed the code or anything in excel sheet you made it. What I mean was I tried to change the symbol, and tick size etc.. I think my question was how can I change the symbol. sorry for the bother again. thanks in advance

Regards

Humberto

[ryker 10]

Hmm you can't really do that. You need to paste the data in and then change contract info manually.

 

In my version this is done automatically via the link in Bloomberg, but you need to have a Bloomberg terminal .

 

In the version I'm working on, I've got data stored in csv files for 30 symbols, and I can chart MP (with some other features ) and also updating my data from Bloomberg (it's possible to link to another data source). But it's not ready yet unfortunately... Nearly

[bobajob 10]

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The pdf attached has 4 days trading - not consecutive. Lets start with page 1:

 

So the chart shows the price on the left, it's the ES by the way - 2004 in January. Then there are 4 profiles of the previous days. On the right are 5 minute bars in a profile. They are gradually updated as the page goes to the right. Each profile is a half hour addition. I use this to see if I can identify patterns. I will share some features of what I look for here.

 

The previous day had touched the highs of a few days previously but could not trade higher and in fact built a balance area below these highs creating a relative tail. Notice that a tail should not be just single print TPOs. So the market on our day opens up below the high volume area. Another point to weakness. So you would think that we are looking to short the market - ideally at the highs that could not be breached, but it might not get that high of course. So next I look at how the day starts to develop. That means I tend not to look for trades early in the day, there is not enough profile to base my decisions on. The main point to remember with all these trades is always to buy below value and sell above value - unless the distribution has been broken - in that event you can very often trade at the POC as this becomes the final tipping point that starts a trend move. On this day you can see I marked a short trade in the second peroid (the shaded area). I would set a stop for this very close to my trade (1 point in the ES). This is because I would rather reassess the market and get in again if need be. My studies show that this creates consistent profits for me. You can see how the market fattens at the lower area - this is just asking for the market to test lower. It is a sight that I don't think you see often as a profile trader. The market does however trade higher. I place another short because this is such a golden opportunity to short the market. This time I take profits on my first trade when the market heads back towards the POC - insurance if all goes wrong - remember prediction is only guessing at the end of the day. The dashed lines show the extremes of that period of trading and help me identify ideal trade location after the day is over. The market continues to fatten and then breaks as expected. The next problem is where to liquidate the short. Watch the previous distrubution areas for this. With hinesight we can all see where I should have liquidated - however I got a bit greedy. The market started to develop so I had to take a lower profit. This is why reviewing the day is so important - it matches what you did with what you should have done. So that day would have made 8 points without commission. No bad.

 

The other days should be self-explanatory given my notes - The first trade was stopped out and the next was a small profit. You may see that my trading at the moment catches reversals well - but the break trade is still a problem. I must work on that as it will offer the most profit in the end.

 

I hope this helps a bit and I am happy to explain any other features of what I uploaded.

[gomes 10]

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

 

The pdf attached has 4 days trading - not consecutive. Lets start with page 1:

 

So the chart shows the price on the left, it's the ES by the way - 2004 in January. Then there are 4 profiles of the previous days. On the right are 5 minute bars in a profile. They are gradually updated as the page goes to the right. Each profile is a half hour addition. I use this to see if I can identify patterns. I will share some features of what I look for here.

 

The previous day had touched the highs of a few days previously but could not trade higher and in fact built a balance area below these highs creating a relative tail. Notice that a tail should not be just single print TPOs. So the market on our day opens up below the high volume area. Another point to weakness. So you would think that we are looking to short the market - ideally at the highs that could not be breached, but it might not get that high of course. So next I look at how the day starts to develop. That means I tend not to look for trades early in the day, there is not enough profile to base my decisions on. The main point to remember with all these trades is always to buy below value and sell above value - unless the distribution has been broken - in that event you can very often trade at the POC as this becomes the final tipping point that starts a trend move. On this day you can see I marked a short trade in the second peroid (the shaded area). I would set a stop for this very close to my trade (1 point in the ES). This is because I would rather reassess the market and get in again if need be. My studies show that this creates consistent profits for me. You can see how the market fattens at the lower area - this is just asking for the market to test lower. It is a sight that I don't think you see often as a profile trader. The market does however trade higher. I place another short because this is such a golden opportunity to short the market. This time I take profits on my first trade when the market heads back towards the POC - insurance if all goes wrong - remember prediction is only guessing at the end of the day. The dashed lines show the extremes of that period of trading and help me identify ideal trade location after the day is over. The market continues to fatten and then breaks as expected. The next problem is where to liquidate the short. Watch the previous distrubution areas for this. With hinesight we can all see where I should have liquidated - however I got a bit greedy. The market started to develop so I had to take a lower profit. This is why reviewing the day is so important - it matches what you did with what you should have done. So that day would have made 8 points without commission. No bad.

 

The other days should be self-explanatory given my notes - The first trade was stopped out and the next was a small profit. You may see that my trading at the moment catches reversals well - but the break trade is still a problem. I must work on that as it will offer the most profit in the end.

 

I hope this helps a bit and I am happy to explain any other features of what I uploaded.

 

Thanks Bobajob for the Pdf. It is full of information. More like a puzzle I tried to put it together. I can't say I fully comprehended but I did dig into it. When I was digging it some questions came to mind.

 

You are saying "buy below value and sell above value" without seeing value on your charts, how do you determine where the value is?

 

Can you talk about this subject a little more "The main point to remember with all these trades is always to buy below value and sell above value - unless the distribution has been broken - in that event you can very often trade at the POC as this becomes the final tipping point that starts a trend move.". What do you mean unless the distribution has been broken? What I thought is, when we have double distribution, it tells us that there is a shift in market's value, value has been changed and market didn't find its new value so we don't know where the new value is yet. But again I think we can sell above value and buy below value. If market has broken down the bracket and llooking for new value below the bracket thats we can short any rally close to popular price areas from previous day.

 

On your first sheet, you say "should cover at C given that market wont go into cluster" before the fact how do you know that or how did you see that?

 

what is break trade "but the break trade is still a problem"?

 

Can you compare your trades on page1 and page3. what are the differences? Page1 you wanted to short it, Page3 you want to buy it, Why?

 

Also special thanks for explaining your 5min bars in a profile. I loved it.

Market sends us messages, but it is our job to decipher this message. I think MP is one of the good ways that appears to me. It is like a bright star shining.

 

Thanks in advance again.

Regards

humberto

[bobajob 10]

Ok I will try and answer you lengthy questions.

 

First point - when I referred to value I meant the POC not 70% value area. I consider this the most important price. I mean sell above the most traded area and buy below this level.

Next point - you have to trade where you want not where the market tells you. So you want to gain an advantage - if price develops a large volume at a certain level you want to sell above that level - obvious stuff. This way you have your edge. Never break this simple rule and sell below the POC. But this is only true if price stays in its developing bell curve. Once price moves out of this bell curve you want to go with the move. But if price retraces to the POC you may be able to get the trade in a more advantageous price. Once again trading where you want not just jumping in.

The example on page 1 of the pdf - the market finally breaks down towards the end of the day - so the curve has been broken. The best place to sell the market is in the A period in the penultimate half hour - but you do get other opportunities in E period and even F for less gains. This price is techncally below value for the day but a new curve is developing - right?

 

My next point - all comments are made after I did my learning/trading - they are in hinesight, they help me see what I should have done. If I see the same messages repeated maybe they will become second nature.

 

Next point comparing trades day 1 and 3 - there are very little differences at the beginning of the day - right? They both open slightly below the POC so could show weakness. Don't, here, confuse my comments on what I should have done with what I actually did. On both days I shorted the market to make profits. To me that is because, as I said, the days looked the same. I saw where the market stalled and sold the reversal. However, the difference with day 3 is that I bought the market when it moved lower - as it showed strength that was not shown in day 1. We broke out of the distrubution and so the odds were with us that there would be support under that level. On day 3 by the end of the day we have 3 distributions and I bought at the point of distribution 1.

 

The whole point of my method is just to look for bell curve distributions and trade off acceptance or rejection of these previously developed areas. The market tends to get trapped into distributions that it was currently in - a bit like an old memory - maybe the same traders trade in those old locations - not sure.

 

The above explanation of day 1 and 3 should explain what I mean when I say I cannot do the break trade. What I mean is that on day 3 the market broke higher. Most of the profit was in the directional move higher - yet my method only allowed me to short the reversal - luckily it was an OK move down - but if there was increased strength I would have been stopped - right?

 

Luckily the market always rotates a bit every day - so there is always a little profit in fading a directional move.

 

Hope this clarified a bit.

[gomes 10]

Thanks bobajob,

You answered my questions

It was interesting to see your take on MP. There are somethings in it to beneficial to anyone who knows what they are looking for. you are very generous to share your analysis.

and I want to thank everyone for their contributions to the subject.

To wrap things up, the reason I asked for MP on excel was to see how the value area changes with the price changes during the day and if I have some kind of tool like the ryker has I can run the price before it gets there and see how the profile looks like. Where the POC is going to be and wit that where the value area is moving to and market looks balance or not, if value area stuck how it will be balanced again etc. This was just a thought.

And I have one more question to ryker,

Ryker I am unable to paste the info in the sheet to chage the MP, but I can change the info in that symbol you send. So I am asking you if you can share the excel spreadsheet for ES symbol if it is handy. I was going to PM you but maybe someone else can benefit from it, I asked you in the forum. Thanks in advance.

 

Regards

Humberto

[ryker 10]

Thanks bobajob,

You answered my questions

It was interesting to see your take on MP. There are somethings in it to beneficial to anyone who knows what they are looking for. you are very generous to share your analysis.

and I want to thank everyone for their contributions to the subject.

To wrap things up, the reason I asked for MP on excel was to see how the value area changes with the price changes during the day and if I have some kind of tool like the ryker has I can run the price before it gets there and see how the profile looks like. Where the POC is going to be and wit that where the value area is moving to and market looks balance or not, if value area stuck how it will be balanced again etc. This was just a thought.

And I have one more question to ryker,

Ryker I am unable to paste the info in the sheet to chage the MP, but I can change the info in that symbol you send. So I am asking you if you can share the excel spreadsheet for ES symbol if it is handy. I was going to PM you but maybe someone else can benefit from it, I asked you in the forum. Thanks in advance.

 

Regards

Humberto

 

I'm sure there is a misunderstanding somewhere here...

Have you seen the button on the top right of the data sheet, you need to press it after having paste your values.

Are you really unable to paste info in the data sheet? This sheet has been designed to handle several symbols you just need to change the infos and paste data in Data sheet, I don't have any ES symbol sheet...

Let me know if you still have a problem.

 

Thanks

[gomes 10]

Hi, ryker

You are 100% right. I made it. I did as you said and finally I was able to create the MP. It couldn't be easier than this but I couldn't see it.

Thanks a trillion to you ryker. You are a good fellow.

I will use your spreadsheet each and everyday.

Regards

Humberto

[ryker 10]

Glad that you finally did it , let me know if any problems with it.

[gomes 10]

Hey, ryker

Day first,

I didn't know your spreadsheet comes with a bonus trade like this.Yikes! There is a handsome profit.

Look at this MP charts. One from yesterday and one from today.

Thanks a lot mate.

Regards

Humberto

[gomes 10]

I think files didn't come through.

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service 03/13/07

 

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service 03/14/07

 

see how it goes

[ryker 10]

Hey, ryker

Day first,

I didn't know your spreadsheet comes with a bonus trade like this.Yikes! There is a handsome profit.

Look at this MP charts. One from yesterday and one from today.

Thanks a lot mate.

Regards

Humberto

 

Hi,

I'm glad that you like it and also making money with it .

 

In case you don;t know:

- You can plot more than one day (but not too much cause of the limitations of excel)

- You can reduce the size of the chart, put 2 or more in ticks/tpo in data sheet.

 

Thanks

[gomes 10]

Hey ryker,

Everything is going smooth, but I have a question.

As you can see from the file I posted, this is 7. bracket but still there is no value area on the MP. On this day I got value area on 9. bracket. Do you know what causes that. I can understand after first couple brackets if there is no value area, but after 8 bracket, I thought I did something wrong. Whenever you have time could you enlighten me about this. I may be doing something wrong or I need to change something in it.

Thanks in advance for your time and effort.

Regards

Humberto

 

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

[ryker 10]

Hi,

Could you please send me or attach your data file so I can try to find out where is the problem?

Thanks

[samde 10]

Hi all,

I found this forum from google search today.

sorry for my poor english to express my words properly. (I'm from Taiwan)

I studied MP and wrote VBA code to plot MP chart in spreadsheet for serval years.

my mp chart in excel

http://samde.myweb.hinet.net/

 

sample: excel file for MP chart.(odc 5,10,15,20 days included)

http://samde.myweb.hinet.net/mp20070315.rar

[gomes 10]

Hi ryker

I am sending my data file. I hope you can find the problem.

Thanks a lot.

Regards

Humberto

 

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[Agora 10]

ryker, bobajob,

 

KUDOS to both of you for doing such a great job... but more importantly being so generous in sharing it.

 

What I'd like to do is link your sheets to DDE link for esignal, so that I can have it dynamically updating during the trading day.

 

How would I go about doing this?

 

I'm proficient with excel but not as versed in intricacies of programming it. Can either you point me in the right direction or walk me through it?

 

Thanks in advace!

 

Again, thank you in your generosity.

 

Agora.

[bobajob 10]

Agora - thanks for the kind words - it's funny how we all have our own methods that we like to work with. I am not quite sure how to DDE with another program. The way I update is to reference a web page from excel. With Quote.com you can access a web page of current data. I update in excel from that address which does the trick. The formatting is a bit of a pain though. I am currently working on improving that. Obviously this technique only works for data stored as a webpage though. I have a book about accessing dynamic data exchanges to create your own trading software - even for automated trading - but it's pretty intense.

 

Best Regards,

 

Boba

[Agora 10]

boba,

 

Thanks for answering so quickly. I follow what you're saying but I saw a toolbar for DDE on the sheet so I thought you had a link. I want to automate the process so I can trade off of it.

 

It looks like MP is one of the best tools out there for day-trading. I just started to look into it. Things tend to go back to the mean. Just like prices tend to revert to a moving average when it gets too far adrift.

 

Agora

[ryker 10]

Hi ryker

I am sending my data file. I hope you can find the problem.

Thanks a lot.

Regards

Humberto

 

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

 

I can't see any problems here with your data, with 4 time slices I've got all values...