Off Topic and Moderation

[SIUYA 11]

Funny!

 

And I forgot, off-topic posts will be moderated more closely and will be moved into its own thread, if I get requests to do so.

 

Just so everyone knows, the thread that prompted this discussion was the TA Debunked thread that got WAY off topic.

 

MMS

 

LOL - that was probably one of the more way off topics (in all tangents by all persons), however IMHO it was reasonably tame, polite and cordial.

Doesn't that tell you that the topic was a non event?

 

If moderation is going to involve trying to take off topic discussions into the area of deleting off topic posts - as clearly the topic held little interest - then I hope that TL still remains a place for free and open discussion.....to me off topic is not necessarily a deviation from the thread title - its more about the nature of the posts being personal.....so for my ,

(as clearly this is ok as its on topic)

 

you moth...r f...king censors should learn to watch out for all the lies, lies, lies and when i catch you i am going to come around and napalm the compost heap your ideas come from....have a nice day.

[steve46 12]

Isn't this the status quo? MMS, have you worked in government by any chance?

 

Be careful......that could be construed as an "insult"...

 

hmmmm lets see....I haven't "attacked" anyone in a few minutes....and I seem to have misplaced my list of pre-written death threats....

 

Well no time to look for them now, I have to get back to my "illegal activities"..

Edited June 11, 2012 by steve46

[bobcollett 10]

Funny!

 

And I forgot, off-topic posts will be moderated more closely and will be moved into its own thread, if I get requests to do so.

 

Just so everyone knows, the thread that prompted this discussion was the TA Debunked thread that got WAY off topic.

 

MMS

 

And the last person to post on "TA Debunked" was BluehorseShoe.

Its his fault.:haha:

regards

bobc

[karoshiman 10]

LOL - that was probably one of the more way off topics (in all tangents by all persons), however IMHO it was reasonably tame, polite and cordial.

Doesn't that tell you that the topic was a non event?

 

If moderation is going to involve trying to take off topic discussions into the area of deleting off topic posts - as clearly the topic held little interest - then I hope that TL still remains a place for free and open discussion.....to me off topic is not necessarily a deviation from the thread title - its more about the nature of the posts being personal.....so for my ,

(as clearly this is ok as its on topic)

 

...

 

 

 

Agree with Siuya 100% on the above.

[kayaktri 10]

MMS,

 

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this.

 

For me, I think the site is great. The reason why I think the site is great is because you have people on the site who I will refer to as teachers. This is a VERY small (1-2%) minority of the people on the site, but make up the reason why I come to the site. The majority of the rest of the people, including myself, are what could be identified as students. There are people who frequent and post on the site who are successful traders, but are not successful at teaching, and only a small select group (IMO) qualify as this role type.

 

So, what does this all have to do with your original question?

 

It is my belief that anything that fosters an environment to entice the 'teachers' to continue posting is a great thing, and anything that creates an environment where the these 'teachers' post less and less, or not at all is a bad thing. And, will ultimately cause many of the students, such as myself, not to frequent the site.

 

Unlike an academic institution, where a hierarchy and code of conduct exists between the students and the faculty, an online forum places everyone at the same level. In many cases, from an educational perspective, this is not conducive to learning, and is not very efficient.

 

I have noticed that some of the 'teachers' on this site are no longer posting. I would be very curious to determine why that is. If I were running the site, I would try to figure out why this is, as I would want to create an environment where they would continue to post. I do not know if it was or was not related to the sometimes constant probing/prodding of the students, but it may have been, and it would be good to know.

 

I for one favor a more hierarchical approach to my educational experience (and this is the reason why I am on this site, to educate myself - and when an appropriate opportunity arrives that I can educate others on the topic of interest). As such, I would be appreciative of an approach to moderating that 1) keep the 'teachers' on this site teaching, and 2) not allowing the site to even remotely begin to rival the likes of ET or others that have regressed by letting the students run off the teachers.

 

Thank you for your site, it is much appreciated.

 

Scott

[Tams 20]

Hi,

 

I assure you that will never happen again. I am the only moderator and these are the guidelines I've been following:

1. no personal attacks

2. off topic posts *only* where others have complained directly to me

 

thx

MMS

 

you are the only moderator?

 

Who is this guy? His tagline is "Super Moderator"

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/22311-igor/

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

As an educator, I have a lot to share with this group and believe me I tried. I generously offered to give free and extensive personal training to any TL member in exchange for their honest evaluation of me and the degree to which I was able to help them. I specifically stated that I would NOT accept any payment from anyone here for any reason. This was to set aside any suspicion that my motives were anything but a legitimate desire to help others here at TL.

 

Hi Roger,

 

I would be happy to take you up on this kind offer, although your tuition would have to be provided in a form that was conveniently digestible for me (ie. not through live trading rooms). I would then provide an honest evaluation of your tuition, and publish it on TL if you wished for me to do so.

 

If this sounds an agreeable arrangement then please PM me.

 

Thanks,

 

BlueHorseshoe

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

 

Just so everyone knows, the thread that prompted this discussion was the TA Debunked thread that got WAY off topic.

 

MMS

 

Ah . . . that was my fault, wasn't it? And yet . . .

 

It was for me one of the more beneficial and engaging interactions I've had on TL recently. I learned that tax avoidance is a far less simple affair than I imagined - trying to dodge the taxman and getting caught would surely cost me far more than any trading decision I am likely to make - if this tangent had been moderated away I would be worse off for it. And it was all pretty civil, wasn't it?

 

I think one factor you might consider is whether the thread starter has any grievance or is desperately trying to pull a thread back on topic. In the case of the above, as I recall, the thread starter never revisited the thread after their initial post, suggesting they had no ongoing interest in how discussion developed thereafter.

 

Another thing that you might consider is allowing an off-topic thread to run until the discussion burns itself out, and then deleting it. Some things are good at the time, for those who're involved, but will be of no interest at all to others in the future.

 

I come here for 'in the moment' discussion; I don't come here to produce monolithic documents for posterity. You could delete every single historic post on the site, and I'd still be back tomorrow . . .

 

BlueHorseshoe

[Roger Felton 10]

MMS,

 

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this.

 

For me, I think the site is great. The reason why I think the site is great is because you have people on the site who I will refer to as teachers. This is a VERY small (1-2%) minority of the people on the site, but make up the reason why I come to the site. The majority of the rest of the people, including myself, are what could be identified as students. There are people who frequent and post on the site who are successful traders, but are not successful at teaching, and only a small select group (IMO) qualify as this role type.

 

So, what does this all have to do with your original question?

 

It is my belief that anything that fosters an environment to entice the 'teachers' to continue posting is a great thing, and anything that creates an environment where the these 'teachers' post less and less, or not at all is a bad thing. And, will ultimately cause many of the students, such as myself, not to frequent the site.

 

Unlike an academic institution, where a hierarchy and code of conduct exists between the students and the faculty, an online forum places everyone at the same level. In many cases, from an educational perspective, this is not conducive to learning, and is not very efficient.

 

I have noticed that some of the 'teachers' on this site are no longer posting. I would be very curious to determine why that is. If I were running the site, I would try to figure out why this is, as I would want to create an environment where they would continue to post. I do not know if it was or was not related to the sometimes constant probing/prodding of the students, but it may have been, and it would be good to know.

 

I for one favor a more hierarchical approach to my educational experience (and this is the reason why I am on this site, to educate myself - and when an appropriate opportunity arrives that I can educate others on the topic of interest). As such, I would be appreciative of an approach to moderating that 1) keep the 'teachers' on this site teaching, and 2) not allowing the site to even remotely begin to rival the likes of ET or others that have regressed by letting the students run off the teachers.

 

Thank you for your site, it is much appreciated.

 

Scott

 

Great post, Scott. You hit on a point that is more vital for further discussion than most members here may realize. I don't know anything of these other teachers that you speak of. Why they have left, or are leaving, might have something to do with how they were received. A good trading forum can only survive if there exists the ability to learn. The learning comes from unselfish teachers with no agenda other than to help because they can.

 

I hope others will pick up on this discussion. I personally think it deserves a whole new thread. It's that important.

[MightyMouse 12]

MMS,

 

if you review the instances of name calling, etc it is generally when a vendor is questioned about a claim and resorts to attempting to defame the person asking the question to diverge attention from the original question so that he doesn't have to answer it. The likely response for the poster is to respond defensively or in kind. So now all a vendor has to do is to begin name calling to diverge attention from the facts and the series of posts will be deleted.

 

TL then becomes a site that favors vendors who have nothing of real substance to offer who can be prey upon unsuspecting members.

 

This thread which is supposed to be about off topic and moderation is riddled with the constant advertising by the Roger guy and they do not get deleted. How in God's name are his advertizements a part of this friggin discussion? Why do you allow those posts and delete other posts, like mine, that address facets of the off topic discussions?

 

So, if I made a comment to roger about his incessant promotion on this very thread which he does under your nose since he has manipulated you into protecting him, he will whine to you and you will delete my post even though it is a post that others likely agree with and share a similar sentiment. This is BS!

[onesmith 10]

The reason I've pressed on with my Libel complaint is throughout our lives stuff happens that stays in our present and keeps us in the past (unless it's resolved). The libel is real and it's bad so I wanted closure, something that could enable me to experience the present and know bad things don't happen because they have consequences.

 

bob said don't let hatred or ill feelings eat me up. I totally get that. I have compassion for everyone. Any of you .. if you're ever in need of something and I can help I will. I've experienced negative emotions. I don't enjoy them so I choose my state. I don't have negative feelings toward anyone.

 

This has been beautiful, learning new things. Whatever closure I need will have to come through some other experience further along my path. Wish I understood why closure is so important to me in this situation. It goes something like, people do bad things. People aren't bad. Bad things still happen. The part about bad things still happen is where I'm needy. Deep inside I need to know with a higher level of certainty than some of you that people who do bad things pay the consequences. I hope it's unnecessary to argue there's no ill will in that last sentence. Just truth.

[Kiwi 16]

Onesmith,

 

The problem may be that you really don't understand human nature. You seem to be idealizing people and expecting people to be good. Expecting that if you are nice then reciprocity will occur. And thinking that when you think that you're nice then other people will think you are too.

 

It ain't true. And it ain't true that you have to resolve shit. You have to get over it. Personally I want to come through the internet and kick you until you stop being such a .....

 

If you release your self-deception then you may let go of this libel stuff.

 

1% of people are psychopaths - they will hurt you for pleasure or gain without issue.

2% of people don't play the reciprocity game.

 

Those are both rough stats and imo Steve46 isn't in either of those categories but there are people who are. So accept reality and move on.

 

Enjoy the good and avoid the bad when practical.

Learn from negatives and get over everything asap.

 

 

But don't forget to take pleasure where you can, even it it's just the joy of poking a stick at a snake oil merchant.

[Roger Felton 10]

MMS,

 

if you review the instances of name calling, etc it is generally when a vendor is questioned about a claim and resorts to attempting to defame the person asking the question to diverge attention from the original question so that he doesn't have to answer it. The likely response for the poster is to respond defensively or in kind. So now all a vendor has to do is to begin name calling to diverge attention from the facts and the series of posts will be deleted.

 

TL then becomes a site that favors vendors who have nothing of real substance to offer who can be prey upon unsuspecting members.

 

This thread which is supposed to be about off topic and moderation is riddled with the constant advertising by the Roger guy and they do not get deleted. How in God's name are his advertizements a part of this friggin discussion? Why do you allow those posts and delete other posts, like mine, that address facets of the off topic discussions?

 

So, if I made a comment to roger about his incessant promotion on this very thread which he does under your nose since he has manipulated you into protecting him, he will whine to you and you will delete my post even though it is a post that others likely agree with and share a similar sentiment. This is BS!

 

MM, with all due respect, would you please explain how you merely "questioned" a "claim" that I had made and were responded to with name calling? It didn't happen that way and you know it. It was only after a bombardment of rude disrespectful comments by you and the others that I had to resort to defending myself and start stating the facts.

 

Otherwise, these nasty comments go forever on the Internet thru search engines and that's all people would see. It stinks, for sure, but the comments were so vile and untrue that it forced me to respond. If we can't agree on what actually occured here, then nothing will ever be accomplished. Go re-read the posts and refresh your memory of who cast the first stone.

 

This is what I believe MMS is trying to stop. Viscious, rude, unfounded attacks born out of ignorance and hatred. Let's all agree that this should stop now. I'm not asking you to like me, just stop with the "prey on others" comments. What is wrong with allowing other TL members giving me the benefit of a doubt and allow me to prove to them I have something of value to offer?...especially since there is zero chance that they could be taken advantage of in any way.

[gosu 10]

 

* * * Just this evening here in this thread I turned down a TL member who wanted to become a tuition paying student. * * *

 

No one in this thread offered to become your "tuition paying student." LOL

 

Either you are a complete nincompoop or you are such a hardcore vendor that when someone says "tuition" you hear the loud sound of a cash register in your brain that overwhelms your ability to reason.

 

People who don't hear the KA-CHING! can see by the context that the person obviously meant "instruction, training, tutelage, etc." IOW, he was accepting your offer to provide such services that you keep dangling to the membership here like you would a carrot in front of a mule.

 

In any case, once again you have misstated facts to fit your narrative. Regardless, I give you credit for being a character.

[MadMarketScientist 11]

you are the only moderator?

 

Who is this guy? His tagline is "Super Moderator"

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/22311-igor/

 

My partner who is posting some of our evergreen content and retagging content (Dictionary, Option articles, etc)

 

He doesn't moderate but he has the user permissions for other tasks.

 

MMS

[MadMarketScientist 11]

if you review the instances of name calling, etc it is generally when a vendor is questioned about a claim and resorts to attempting to defame the person asking the question to diverge attention from the original question so that he doesn't have to answer it. The likely response for the poster is to respond defensively or in kind. So now all a vendor has to do is to begin name calling to diverge attention from the facts and the series of posts will be deleted!

 

That is not true, I only delete posts where insults are being thrown around. If someone questions a vendor (without insults) and he doesn't respond appropriately (or not at all), the original question stays and the whole world will see the vendor doesn't like to answer questions. Further, when possible, I try to edit the posts to just remove the insults but to keep the intent of the post intact. This takes a lot of my time!

 

TL then becomes a site that favors vendors who have nothing of real substance to offer who can be prey upon unsuspecting members.

 

This thread which is supposed to be about off topic and moderation is riddled with the constant advertising by the Roger guy and they do not get deleted. How in God's name are his advertizements a part of this friggin discussion? Why do you allow those posts and delete other posts, like mine, that address facets of the off topic discussions?

 

I do not favor vendors at all. They are all identified and are told strictly any advertisements are not allowed and will be removed. If there are any posts where you believe there is an advertisement please report the specific post. I went through this entire thread and removed all mention of classes\etc by Roger. He has also been warned not to mention them again. In addition, we will be actively monitoring this.

 

So, if I made a comment to roger about his incessant promotion on this very thread which he does under your nose since he has manipulated you into protecting him, he will whine to you and you will delete my post even though it is a post that others likely agree with and share a similar sentiment. This is BS!

 

I am not protecting him - if you recall my previous post this subject came up because of an entirely different thread - the TA Debunked one. Roger has been dealt with - he will moderated more closely. All his advertisements have been removed.

 

MMS

[kuokam 10]

Okay for me , sir! Too much moderation might kill moderation.

 

 

 

 

Hi Members!

 

How much moderation do you all want on the threads? I've received a few recent 'complaints' that threads are getting off-topic too much. But on the flip-side, others have said they like the banter.

 

What does everyone else think? Please let me know here!

 

thanks,

MMS

[MightyMouse 12]

MM, with all due respect, would you please explain how you merely "questioned" a "claim" that I had made and were responded to with name calling? It didn't happen that way and you know it. It was only after a bombardment of rude disrespectful comments by you and the others that I had to resort to defending myself and start stating the facts.

 

 

You were not the vendor I was referring to. In your case, instead of name calling, your tactic is to play the victim. The claim was that you make 1000 a day daytrading, which you later corrected to an average of 1100 or 1200 a day. Asking you about an outrageous claim about making 1100-1200 a day trading 2 contracts is not a rude and disrespectful comment.

[MightyMouse 12]

That is not true, I only delete posts where insults are being thrown around. If someone questions a vendor (without insults) and he doesn't respond appropriately (or not at all), the original question stays and the whole world will see the vendor doesn't like to answer questions. Further, when possible, I try to edit the posts to just remove the insults but to keep the intent of the post intact. This takes a lot of my time!

 

 

 

I do not favor vendors at all. They are all identified and are told strictly any advertisements are not allowed and will be removed. If there are any posts where you believe there is an advertisement please report the specific post. I went through this entire thread and removed all mention of classes\etc by Roger. He has also been warned not to mention them again. In addition, we will be actively monitoring this.

 

 

 

I am not protecting him - if you recall my previous post this subject came up because of an entirely different thread - the TA Debunked one. Roger has been dealt with - he will moderated more closely. All his advertisements have been removed.

 

MMS

 

Post 19 is an advertisement, Post 36 is an advertisement. Post 49 is an advertisement, Post 63 I will call an advertizement, Post 67 is an advertizement. There are about 8 or 9 posts so about 1/2 are advertizements blended in with whining about being mistreated. It looks like he is a lot of work.

 

If you removed some, then there were a lot more.

 

I am not trying to be mean to the guy, but I do not recall a single post that he authored that added any value to this thread or this site in any way. Others, such as Steve46, whether you agree with his method or not, has added value to the site. I might be mistaken, but all I have seen Roger do is solicit and defend his business.

[Roger Felton 10]

Post 19 is an advertisement, Post 36 is an advertisement. Post 49 is an advertisement, Post 63 I will call an advertizement, Post 67 is an advertizement. There are about 8 or 9 posts so about 1/2 are advertizements blended in with whining about being mistreated. It looks like he is a lot of work.

 

If you removed some, then there were a lot more.

 

I am not trying to be mean to the guy, but I do not recall a single post that he authored that added any value to this thread or this site in any way. Others, such as Steve46, whether you agree with his method or not, has added value to the site. I might be mistaken, but all I have seen Roger do is solicit and defend his business.

 

My apologies, MM. I received a PM from MMS clarifying the matter. I didn't understand how offering to help TL members whom I can never under anycircumstances accept money from would be considered advertising. But, by the rules here, it is. I understand and will withdraw the free help offer and make no such offers going forward. My mistake and it will not happen again. Thanks.

[Roger Felton 10]

No one in this thread offered to become your "tuition paying student." LOL

 

Either you are a complete nincompoop or you are such a hardcore vendor that when someone says "tuition" you hear the loud sound of a cash register in your brain that overwhelms your ability to reason.

 

People who don't hear the KA-CHING! can see by the context that the person obviously meant "instruction, training, tutelage, etc." IOW, he was accepting your offer to provide such services that you keep dangling to the membership here like you would a carrot in front of a mule.

 

In any case, once again you have misstated facts to fit your narrative. Regardless, I give you credit for being a character.

 

When I went to college, I paid a tuition...a lot of tuitions, in fact. Technically, it was a tuition fee...a fee for knowledge. But it was always referred to as, "paid my tuition" and somehow that always meant "get out my wallet". If he did not mean it in that sense, then it was a misunderstanding, not a misstatement of facts. In any case, I declined his offer so I'll have to go with nincompoop.

 

So, to please everyone, all offers of free assistance are withdrawn and none will be made in the futrue here at TL. It was a very bad idea and I apologize for offending so many by offering free help. Kind gestures aren't always taken in the spirit they were given.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Roger Felton

[Obsidian 10]

...I have noticed that some of the 'teachers' on this site are no longer posting. I would be very curious to determine why that is. If I were running the site, I would try to figure out why this is, as I would want to create an environment where they would continue to post. I do not know if it was or was not related to the sometimes constant probing/prodding of the students, but it may have been, and it would be good to know...

 

Hi Scott,

I see this was your first post. I think you should let "teachers" know that they are not alone in the classroom. If you (everyone) participate more, you will get more...imvho...

[onesmith 10]

I restrict my comments about others to things I know are true and I am prepared to prove, .. primarily because it's the right thing to do., ..but also because 'Libel' is a 'Felony' punishable by imprisonment for up to 5 years and a fine of up to $2,500 under 'Criminal Law'. ..

 

besides the obvious 'Civil' penalties.

[Tams 20]

I had my posts deleted by a moderator because I disagreed with his view. I think that is wrong.

 

I don't know if this person is still a moderator, but I see he posts here once in awhile.

 

Hi,

 

I assure you that will never happen again. I am the only moderator and these are the guidelines I've been following:

1. no personal attacks

2. off topic posts *only* where others have complained directly to me

 

thx

MMS

 

What about this list of moderators ?

 

Traders Laboratory - Show Groups

[MadMarketScientist 11]

What about this list of moderators ?

 

Traders Laboratory - Show Groups

 

All remnants of the past - just haven't had time to remove them yet. Thanks for showing me this list, I will cleanup right away.

 

MMS