Off Topic and Moderation

[MadMarketScientist 11]

Hi Members!

 

How much moderation do you all want on the threads? I've received a few recent 'complaints' that threads are getting off-topic too much. But on the flip-side, others have said they like the banter.

 

What does everyone else think? Please let me know here!

 

thanks,

MMS

[onesmith 10]

It is imperative Traders Laboratory moderate Libel, Fraud and Death Threats by removing the forum access of anyone using the forum as a platform for illegal activities. TL does not have a choice to disregard this responsibility. TL must make a reasonable effort to abate illegal activity.

 

TL is free to choose whatever they deem appropriate on a case by case basis where the complaintant claims a user is off-topic. I prefer free speech in these cases.

[Obsidian 10]

current moderation is pretty fine

[onesmith 10]

current moderation is pretty fine

 

I disagree

 

Several months ago I lodged a complaint of Libel and management failed to make a reasonable attempt to abate this illegal activity.

[MightyMouse 12]

Hi Members!

 

How much moderation do you all want on the threads? I've received a few recent 'complaints' that threads are getting off-topic too much. But on the flip-side, others have said they like the banter.

 

What does everyone else think? Please let me know here!

 

thanks,

MMS

 

When some people post it is frequently very important to take the thread off topic until they are dealt with properly. Sure, some good guys get hurt, but in the long run the flow of information works better without moderation because if you give them enough time, they will expose themselves for what they really are. It is a great process to watch as it unfolds.

 

There is nothing wrong with speculating on the intent or integrity of another member of the site. In fact, you really should encourage the behavior. As a member of a trading community, do you want someone to suggest that he can on demand turn a 10000 account into a 200000 account in a year without getting put through the ringer?

 

Nothing is more irritating than having a post get deleted or censured. I do think that if you are going to censure a post that you should first contact the poster to see if he would rather the post be deleted altogether. Censorship editing frequently changes the meaning of the post.

[DbPhoenix 42]

I thought James put it well:

 

Hi,

 

Recent personal attacks on the forums have forced me to create this thread. Traders Laboratory has grown over the course of the past 2.5 years by maintaining one thing: respect for one another.

 

While many boards continue to allow trash talk and attacks, I can not allow this to happen on TL. There is a reason why TL contains only:

 

Threads: 3,935, Posts: 55,821

 

Most forum owners will only care about pageviews and post counts. At TL we prefer quality over quantity.

 

For any concerns regarding a member or post, we urge you to pm anyone of the mods or myself. If there is a concern with a particular mod or myself, please feel free to pm me directly as well. I am very open to suggestions and recommendations from TL members. Afterall, it is the members that create TL.

 

Any continued post that aims to attack another member will be deleted upon notice. If there is an issue please pm me or the mods and we will try to resolve the matter quietly without an open public debate.

 

Please help us keep TL a quality forum.

 

Thank you.

 

Soultrader

[karoshiman 10]

For me, it's fine if threads get off-topic for a while. Just like in a normal conversation.

 

If someone does not like the off-topic posts he or she can ignore them and does not have to respond. This person can just continue to post about the original topic and people will reply to that and get on-topic again. If the topic is of enough interest to others of course...

 

And this is the other side of the medal... maybe some topics are not really that interesting at that moment for most people on the forum so that they tend to deviate from it.

 

I'd say, keep it like it is. We are all big boys or girls and should be able to cope with it.

[Feng 10]

Off-topic could be very healthy for discovery by bringing in ideas and perspectives that enrich the on-topic discussion. Who can say what is really off-topic and what is on?

 

About abuse and attacks, well, first, you opened this with a question about "off-topic" comments. An euphemism?

 

I suspect the button on the left to ignore this user was built into the system for just that personal moderation. If it works as promised, no other moderation is needed.

 

I think the "host" of the thread, that is, the person who launched it, might remind everyone of the etiquette ground rules in the first post, especially if the topic could be predicted to generate passionate feelings.

 

Finally, if you are one of the people prone to disrespect or abuse, and you know who you are, I suggest you study persuasive writing and rhetoric (use your search engines).

 

I'm from New York where everyone has an opinion (the right one, of course), is passionate, and in a rush (life's too short and fast for taking too much time) yet manage to express themselves among friends in a way that gets their point across by focusing on getting the point across. It is possible to express passionate disagreement without abusive language, name calling, or putdowns.

 

I live in Seattle now and this skill is lacking among the general population. So everyone sticks to safe or nice topics because they don't have the skin or skills to disagree. Most conversations don't lead to anything because people don't risk showing their opposition. Very sad.

 

Let's be more NY than Seattle.

 

Feng

[Kiwinz 10]

Hi Members!

 

How much moderation do you all want on the threads? I've received a few recent 'complaints' that threads are getting off-topic too much. But on the flip-side, others have said they like the banter.

 

What does everyone else think? Please let me know here!

 

thanks,

MMS

 

I think the threads are fine - some good uns, some not so good uns - the answer is simple: Read what you want to read!

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

What does everyone else think? Please let me know here!

 

How come you've got that award thingy under your name then?

 

I'm getting me some of those . . .

 

BlueHorseshoe

[MightyMouse 12]

I disagree

 

Several months ago I lodged a complaint of Libel and management failed to make a reasonable attempt to abate this illegal activity.

 

Your feelings getting hurt is libel? You should desensitize a bit. You'll last longer.

[onesmith 10]

My feelings weren't hurt. He's posted more personal attacks than anyone else in the history of Traders Lab. Libel is a recurring theme in his attacks.

 

The first time I called him out (on The Libel) he limited his emotional outbursts toward me and focused on others for a few months before the effect of my warning wore off. Then he resumed attacks upon me. Written allegations he knew were not true.

 

My support ticket in this section of the forum requesting management remove his forum access was censured. He's still a member and albeit a well behaved member since it's only a few months since the most recent episode but he's demonstrated he's unstable and relatively quickly returns to his old behavior.

 

It was wrong for management to censure the evidence in my request for support. The original support ticket should be reinstated. He should be removed from the forum and google should return this incident when people search for information. There is a lot that remains unsaid. He's a dishonest vendor. I'm not the least bit concerned about stating that in writing because I can prove it.

 

I offered to sign any and all waivers Traders Lab might require in which I would assume liability for consequences that might follow his removal from the forum. For instance if I was in any way negilgent or dishonest in presenting the case for his removal.

 

The idea it's best to handle things in private as suggested by DB and Soultrader is not true. MMS suggested the same to me and then proceeded to state best anyone at TL can do is suggest I use the ignore button.

 

To avoid needlessly assuming liability in the interim until a procedure is standardized, no matter how much any moderator dislikes somone continually pestering another user with the repetitive question .. Where are the bodies? I recommend TL not censure anyone except those determined to use the forum for illegal activity. The choice to censure one user instead of another could delay identifying a serial killer. Avoiding liability for these types of errors is the strongest case in favor of free speech.

 

If you know something is illegal you must act to abate it. If it's not illegal it's unwise to take any position because even though it's your sandbox where you can do as you please .. errors in this area and even errors based upon following the preference of a majority of users .. can pierce an otherwise sound corporate veil.

[Tams 20]

Hi Members!

 

How much moderation do you all want on the threads? I've received a few recent 'complaints' that threads are getting off-topic too much. But on the flip-side, others have said they like the banter.

 

What does everyone else think? Please let me know here!

 

thanks,

MMS

 

I had my posts deleted by a moderator because I disagreed with his view. I think that is wrong.

 

I don't know if this person is still a moderator, but I see he posts here once in awhile.

[MadMarketScientist 11]

I had my posts deleted by a moderator because I disagreed with his view. I think that is wrong.

 

I don't know if this person is still a moderator, but I see he posts here once in awhile.

 

Hi,

 

I assure you that will never happen again. I am the only moderator and these are the guidelines I've been following:

1. no personal attacks

2. off topic posts *only* where others have complained directly to me

 

thx

MMS

[MadMarketScientist 11]

There is nothing wrong with speculating on the intent or integrity of another member of the site. In fact, you really should encourage the behavior. As a member of a trading community, do you want someone to suggest that he can on demand turn a 10000 account into a 200000 account in a year without getting put through the ringer?

 

I think it's great people question and debate - I don't when it turns into personal attacks when it doesn't need to (which happens way too often). Also, I feel if people don't agree with someone else's thread, they are doing a disservice to the entire community by hi-jacking it and taking it off-topic. I believe a better course of action is to ignore the thread and let the people who want to discuss whatever do it. I was always taught to mind my own business and if I don't have anything nice to say I shouldn't. Or at least to say it quickly and then go back to minding my own business.

 

MMS

[karoshiman 10]

Hi,

 

I assure you that will never happen again. I am the only moderator and these are the guidelines I've been following:

1. no personal attacks

2. off topic posts *only* where others have complained directly to me

 

thx

MMS

 

 

Hi MMS,

 

does 2. mean that you delete off-topic posts, if only one member complains about it?

 

Regards,

k

[SIUYA 11]

i like a democratic self regulating free and open market.....so i vote for no moderation and let the punters decide.

On that note - this requires more seasoned/experienced members to be an active part of that self regulation (with rights come responsibilities) and that simply means acting in a civil manner towards others even if you disagree with them, AND trying t keep things slightly on topic even though deviations are good.

(I mean it not that hard to open a new thread about a specific topic if that is what people want is it?)

 

Off topic is not an issue for me.

 

The ignore button is great - but like any tool if its not used its useless and if someone is a complete twat ignore them.

[robm 10]

so i vote for no moderation and let the punters decide.

On that note - this requires more seasoned/experienced members to be an active part of that self regulation (with rights come responsibilities) and that simply means acting in a civil manner towards others even if you disagree with them, AND trying t keep things slightly on topic even though deviations are good.

<snip>

The ignore button is great - but like any tool if its not used its useless and if someone is a complete twat ignore them.

 

At first I disagreed with this. TL is now one of the few sites I bother to read. I've been lurking here for a couple of years; expecting it to degenerate. Hasn't happened. So, even though there have been rough moments, overall the conscious effort to keep things civil has worked well to attract the "more seasoned/experienced" (and I might add "mature") participants. Without the moderation, I doubt TL would have achieved this level of quality.

 

Personally, I don't think the moderation needs to change. But in the spirit of continuous improvement, I gave it some thought. Your last sentence finally drove it home for me. I keep reading where people say use the ignore button. It occurs to me I've never done that. The reasons are mostly irrelevant, except for one: I don't believe it helps adds value to the community for me simply to stick my head in the sand.

 

If I (and others) ignore the same user, does it have any real affect on the community? Does that person know that X number of other users are ignoring them, leading to self regulation for those who might actually care? Is there a way for moderators to use the ignore count as evidence that the user is a rotten apple most of the time? If the moderator has this information, then MMS rule #2 is easier to swallow. For example, if I make someone angry with my next post (#3 whoopeee), then I would like to assume MMS would consider that I've had 2 whole posts without anyone hitting the ignore button. On the other hand, if I already had 50 ppl ignoring me, it would be easier for MMS to decide the first complaint about my post #3 is enough to quickly delete it.

 

The ignore button could then be more of a community moderation aid in addition to a great personal censoring tool.

 

If all of this is already possible, well... oops. I've wasted your time. Sorry.

 

Rob

[Roger Felton 10]

I thought James put it well:

 

Hi,

 

Recent personal attacks on the forums have forced me to create this thread. Traders Laboratory has grown over the course of the past 2.5 years by maintaining one thing: respect for one another.

 

While many boards continue to allow trash talk and attacks, I can not allow this to happen on TL. There is a reason why TL contains only:

 

Threads: 3,935, Posts: 55,821

 

Most forum owners will only care about pageviews and post counts. At TL we prefer quality over quantity.

 

For any concerns regarding a member or post, we urge you to pm anyone of the mods or myself. If there is a concern with a particular mod or myself, please feel free to pm me directly as well. I am very open to suggestions and recommendations from TL members. Afterall, it is the members that create TL.

 

Any continued post that aims to attack another member will be deleted upon notice. If there is an issue please pm me or the mods and we will try to resolve the matter quietly without an open public debate.

 

Please help us keep TL a quality forum.

 

Thank you.

 

Soultrader

 

Thanks for starting this thread, Soultrader. I don't hide behind a pseudo-name so most can easily tell that I am also a vendor. You may or may not be aware of the level of personal attacks that I have received here at TL. If you research the history of the posts, I think you can sopt where and when it started. I just never figured out "Why?"

 

When these attacks started and they quickly became relentless. Go read them.

 

SoulTrader, these were not simply comments put forth from healthy skepticism. These were personal. They consisted of lies, distortions, innuendos, statements as facts things that were totally and knowingly incorrect in an apparent effort to slander and there were even threats to harm or destroy my business. The harder I tried to defend myself by stating the facts, the worse it got.

 

In a healthy environment, skeptical members would say, "Hey, the guy has offered to help me increase my bottom line as a trader. I have serious doubts, but he knows this group will crucify him verbally if he fails to do what he says...but he's still willing to try. It's free, why not..." In my experience, that's how normal people react. No vitreol, no hate speech...just, "Hey, show me."

 

The relentless hateful attacks increased and there were times I became angry...frustration can do that. I have apologized to the members if I offended anyone because that was not my intent. My desire to help others trumped my better judgment to leave.

 

All I wanted here was to be given a chance to earn the trust, respect and friendship of the fellow members. But the constant flow of verbal venom made it impossible.

 

I finally did the only thing left to do...permanently leave. My experience here at TL has been a shocking disappointment, to say the least. But perhaps calling attention to the fact that there's a problem here might do some good. No member coming here in good will and faith, should be subjected to threats and verbal abuse based solely on their profession. Otherwise, where does it stop?

 

Since TL does not apparently actually censure this type of rhetoric, you have lost a good member. I have no animosity towards TL or any of it's members. Traders Laboratory is fundamentally a good forum with potential to become even greater. I enjoy reading the articles, for sure.

 

But, it's still generating some nasty press and the threatening emails are increasing. I can no longer promote TL as I have been doing in my daily commentary and webinar presentations when all my referrals see is the vitreol towards me when they come here. I think it gives them the wrong impression of the normal type of TL member.

 

In any case, I would appreciate it if you could "un-member" me from this group since I haven't found the option to do that. Joining TL was a mistake on my part but you don't know unless you try. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to give it a shot.

 

Thanks,

 

Roger Felton

Edited June 10, 2012 by Roger Felton

[SILVER 10]

A healthy debate should not need any moderation IMO,sure sometimes things can heat up,but isnt that life?

Of course anything illegal must be moderated/deleted etc

[Roger Felton 10]

A healthy debate should not need any moderation IMO,sure sometimes things can heat up,but isnt that life?

Of course anything illegal must be moderated/deleted etc

 

When the participants resort to personal threats, healthy debate no longer exists.

[gosu 10]

The moderation is okay for the most part. Sometimes I have posts deleted for no apparent reason or explanation. I chalk it up to the site owner deeming them "personal attacks" even though I didn't mean them as such.

 

From memory I can restate the last two posts of mine that were deleted. Maybe it's because I'm from a different part of the world than the site owner that I don't see those posts worthy of deletion. Others can judge for themselves.

Edited June 10, 2012 by MadMarketScientist
no personal attacks

[Roger Felton 10]

The moderation is okay for the most part. Sometimes I have posts deleted for no apparent reason or explanation. I chalk it up to the site owner deeming them "personal attacks" even though I didn't mean them as such.

 

From memory I can restate the last two posts of mine that were deleted. Maybe it's because I'm from a different part of the world than the site owner that I don't see those posts worthy of deletion. Others can judge for themselves.

 

There is a big difference between an opinion and an outright lie, Gosu. When you and other members of TL understand the difference, this forum will improve dramatically.

 

I'm glad that you posted this, however. Perhaps it will give SoulTrader a chance to see what I've had to deal with for these past several weeks. There's a serious problem here at TL and my solution is to just leave. Unfortunately, SoulTrader doesn't have that option.

[gosu 10]

The moderation is okay for the most part. Sometimes I have posts deleted for no apparent reason or explanation. I chalk it up to the site owner deeming them "personal attacks" even though I didn't mean them as such.

 

From memory I can restate the last two posts of mine that were deleted. Maybe it's because I'm from a different part of the world than the site owner that I don't see those posts worthy of deletion. Others can judge for themselves.

 

Why not just delete the entire post?

[robm 10]

Is it just my imagination, or are we getting off topic?