Fear Yourself Young Apprentice and the Chaos Within

[MightyMouse 12]

The people who are ready to jump out the window because their account blew up and they can't make the payment on the mortgage or have to pull junior out of private school have yet to learn it.

 

It's never too late. They can learn it on the way down.

[Rande Howell 10]

Trading forces an issue that, in most areas of a person's life, never shows up on the radar screen of their awareness. That issue is the distinction between uncertainty and fear. To the brain, the sequence is the triggering of uncertainty > ambiguity > confusion > fear. The emotional brain tethered this sequence together for survival value so that very real responses to threat would be triggered automatically without thought having to arise. This arises out of the brain's need to have certainty in predicting pattern. After all, having a saber tooth tiger bearing down on you, the very last thing the organism needs to do is think through the process of options. And the same emotional brain from back then is still present when you trade. It still perceives the ambiguity as confusion and still is biased to generate fear. After the threatening event happens the thinking brain produces an explanation that rationalizes the decisions that the emotional brain makes. That emotional brain, that directs thinking brain will not (without training) distinguish between psychological discomfort (not knowing) and biological threat.

 

Because of this pre-disposition, it is imperitive that the trader learn to untether this grouping. A trader can train him or herself to experience uncertainty and build the circuitry that produces a different emotional state than fear. Concern (this emotion has an approach motivation to disruptions in the environment rather than an avoidance like fear). Once the feeling of the emotion is coursing in your blood stream, your thinking has already been contaminated (for good or for bad) by the emotion. Concern does not produce the same chemistry or quality of thought that fear does thankfully. It is much more options oriented. But to get to concern, the trader is going to have to train themselves in emotional regulation and applied mindfulness.

 

Most traders take awhile before they take development of the brain/mind seriously. Most give the need for development lip service but neglect this element in their trading. This too is a product of the bias of avoiding uncertainty and looking for certainty. Once a perceptual map (that's the "you" that trades) has been wired, it becomes familiar pattern and is resistent to change. Trading in most cases will force the issue or the trader gets out of trading because they want to continue in the illusion of control that the bias of certainty gives them. That's the power of the feeling component of an emotion. The real question is whether the person is willing to retool the way the brain/mind works for the management of uncertainty rather than the prediction of certainty. For awhile, it is like swimming upstream against a strong current. But getting to uncertainty > ambiguity > confusion > concern creates the mind that can manage probability.

 

I will be posting an article in the next couple of days about the illusion of control that addresses this.

 

Rande Howell

[TheNegotiator 13]

Trading forces an issue that, in most areas of a person's life, never shows up on the radar screen of their awareness. That issue is the distinction between uncertainty and fear. To the brain, the sequence is the triggering of uncertainty > ambiguity > confusion > fear. The emotional brain tethered this sequence together for survival value so that very real responses to threat would be triggered automatically without thought having to arise. This arises out of the brain's need to have certainty in predicting pattern. After all, having a saber tooth tiger bearing down on you, the very last thing the organism needs to do is think through the process of options. And the same emotional brain from back then is still present when you trade. It still perceives the ambiguity as confusion and still is biased to generate fear. After the threatening event happens the thinking brain produces an explanation that rationalizes the decisions that the emotional brain makes. That emotional brain, that directs thinking brain will not (without training) distinguish between psychological discomfort (not knowing) and biological threat.

 

Because of this pre-disposition, it is imperitive that the trader learn to untether this grouping. A trader can train him or herself to experience uncertainty and build the circuitry that produces a different emotional state than fear. Concern (this emotion has an approach motivation to disruptions in the environment rather than an avoidance like fear). Once the feeling of the emotion is coursing in your blood stream, your thinking has already been contaminated (for good or for bad) by the emotion. Concern does not produce the same chemistry or quality of thought that fear does thankfully. It is much more options oriented. But to get to concern, the trader is going to have to train themselves in emotional regulation and applied mindfulness.

 

Most traders take awhile before they take development of the brain/mind seriously. Most give the need for development lip service but neglect this element in their trading. This too is a product of the bias of avoiding uncertainty and looking for certainty. Once a perceptual map (that's the "you" that trades) has been wired, it becomes familiar pattern and is resistent to change. Trading in most cases will force the issue or the trader gets out of trading because they want to continue in the illusion of control that the bias of certainty gives them. That's the power of the feeling component of an emotion. The real question is whether the person is willing to retool the way the brain/mind works for the management of uncertainty rather than the prediction of certainty. For awhile, it is like swimming upstream against a strong current. But getting to uncertainty > ambiguity > confusion > concern creates the mind that can manage probability.

 

I will be posting an article in the next couple of days about the illusion of control that addresses this.

 

Rande Howell

 

I agree Rande but really it misses my point. My point is that all these emotions can be avoided to a great extent by actually preparing thoroughly for each day you trade. If you don't, then your enviroment becomes a chaotic one which your negative (or at least inappropriate) emotions then feed off. So I'm trying to show that there's a big step to not experiencing fear etc. before directly addressing the 'fear' itself.

[zdo 20]

Can anybody tell me who DbPhoenix is, why he/she has been away from the forum for so long, and why his/her return last week has garnered so much enthusiastic response from all the other old hands and maket wizards on here? I feel as though there is some history that I'm missing here . . .

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

BlueHorseshoe,

 

DBP has a deep legacy of quality posting in T2W and TL (and ____ ?) ...bringing a very consistent message and education about S/R, using volume appropriately, etc. to anyone who needs it / is attracted to that way.

 

:haha: Why he needs to occasionally interlude in the ‘sychological’ threads and discount emotions remains as an ongoing mystery ... I have long suspected he is actually dbcooper :rofl: Regardless, his overall body of work puts him at the very top of the list of quality posters about trading!!! Seriously, we're lucky to have him up here on TL...

 

I too am curious about why he stopped posting… but I’m just as curious as to why he posts at all … and also just as curious about those same questions about anyone and everyone else, including myself…

 

Bottom line peeps, IF you are interested in using volume effectively (without learning thousands of pattern permutations avec vsa, etc.) dig through and find the essence of what he's teaching... getting his book is a good starting place... then hope he stays around this time long enough to answer your remaining questions with some real time examples...

Edited April 30, 2012 by zdo

[Rande Howell 10]

I agree Rande but really it misses my point. My point is that all these emotions can be avoided to a great extent by actually preparing thoroughly for each day you trade. If you don't, then your enviroment becomes a chaotic one which your negative (or at least inappropriate) emotions then feed off. So I'm trying to show that there's a big step to not experiencing fear etc. before directly addressing the 'fear' itself.

 

Plenty of traders prepare well for their day, knowledge wise. And that's an important element for performance readiness. If they don't, they aren't performing the minimum standard practice of a professional trader. Emotional mindset prep is another story. Emotions are not to be avoided, they are to be prepared. Actually zdo said it well a while back. It's not freedom from emotion - It is freedom of emotion that is sought. There is a level of emotional intentionality and volition that goes hand in hand with mental prep. Knowing the beliefs about the management of uncertainty and the emotions they are rooted in that you bring to the trading table is vital to an effective trading plan. An avoided fear of losing lurking around in the mind can really mess up a perfectly fine trading plan.

 

Rande Howell

[zdo 20]

I agree Rande but really it misses my point. My point is that all these emotions can be avoided to a great extent by actually preparing thoroughly for each day you trade. If you don't, then your enviroment becomes a chaotic one which your negative (or at least inappropriate) emotions then feed off. So I'm trying to show that there's a big step to not experiencing fear etc. before directly addressing the 'fear' itself.

 

TN, this is what I liked about your original post… and I am not discounting the cognitive strengths at all and really do appreciate your insights!

… but it took only a tiny bit of temptation and little exertion for me to immediately throw the switch and try to put the train on a different track of the loop btwn 'fear' and facility to “prepare” at all or at least to leverage “preparation” up to where it is truly effective. ie sadly, the “big step to not experiencing fear etc” is really not much of a big step at all…

So yes, “preparation” prevents the fear and other emotions… but it is literally emotion that allows you to “prepare”, to really leverage “preparation”, and thus ‘avoid’ the issues on your list… loop d loop…

Underlying point is - Forebrain cannot impact deep brain proficiency nearly as much as deep brain can impact forebrain proficiency. … it’s really not the environment that becomes less or more “chaotic”… The source of my syschological posting is that more traders need to really profoundly get that and spend as much time and energy working with and on the emotional base aspects as they do on what else while ultimately amounts to cognitive (self) trickery.

[SIUYA 11]

some one put me onto this interview.....Tom Basso

 

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/5/e/0/5e07d7b1d98b03d1/TrendFollowingManifesto042412.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01cb823fd0cf5ea097&c_id=4477390

 

around time of 24-25mins on wards there is an interesting and relevant mention of the right mental state from a successful automated/systematic (and so not discretionary) trader.

[zdo 20]

SIUYA,

 

I know Tom and I can tell you without any hesitation, from day one he was one of the lucky ones who didn’t initially bring significant ‘fear reactivity’ to the game. Back to post 2 of this thread - neurologically, he is 'habitually' more oriented towards opportunity than he is toward threat at an effectively constant ‘baseline’ level (… and btw, I’m not saying he neglects or doesn’t include or experience the threat side of dealing with the ‘emotional’ dimensions.) However, he never did significantly fear himself and the chaos within. He is a great example of someone who had very low levels of the impediments to "preparation" that I have been discussing in this thread.

 

… Incidentally, I can also tell you without any hesitation, he "thinks/ thought" about it but he is not and never has been in ‘deep awareness’ that he is that way when compared to most folks who get into the trading game.

[SIUYA 11]

thats why I think his interview was interesting. He seemed to approach it from, here is a problem, lets find the solution. I always liked his style from what I have previously read, and that interview seemed topical.

Interesting that you say he is habitually orientated toward opportunity. That is something I have discussed with a few old friends - too often people get caught up in the protection of what they have - either before or after they have made it - while missing the possibility of even giving themselves the opportunity.

(in short you have to participate to have a chance)

Regardless of all the reasons behind why, how or what, its always interesting to see when people initially start they either have a disregard for risk (they usually blow up), a total aversion to risk (they dont make enough money when they are right) or a mindset that they are quite happy to take good risk reward calculated risks. (part of the pushing s..t up hill even if you go through the motions) )

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

some one put me onto this interview.....Tom Basso

 

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/5/e/0/5e07d7b1d98b03d1/TrendFollowingManifesto042412.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01cb823fd0cf5ea097&c_id=4477390

 

around time of 24-25mins on wards there is an interesting and relevant mention of the right mental state from a successful automated/systematic (and so not discretionary) trader.

 

Hi SIUYA,

 

I'm very interested in watching this, but the URL seems to bounce. Could you message me with any terms that would bring it up on a google search?

 

Many thanks,

 

BlueHorseshoe

[SIUYA 11]

i just cut and paste it but if you type into Google

 

tom basso interview michael covel

 

it should come up. Otherwise it should be on the Michael Covel trend following webistes.

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

i just cut and paste it but if you type into Google

 

tom basso interview michael covel

 

it should come up. Otherwise it should be on the Michael Covel trend following webistes.

 

Great, thanks!

 

BlueHorseshoe

[zdo 20]

thats why I think his interview was interesting. He seemed to approach it from, here is a problem, lets find the solution. I always liked his style from what I have previously read, and that interview seemed topical.

Interesting that you say he is habitually orientated toward opportunity. That is something I have discussed with a few old friends - too often people get caught up in the protection of what they have - either before or after they have made it - while missing the possibility of even giving themselves the opportunity...

 

“too often people get caught up in the protection of what they have” The very reasons for my interjections into this thread. This “caught up” is based in the substrate of ‘emotion’ (one word to be succinct - not really a wholly complete or accurate description ). Their quality of thinking of “preparation” does not come from consciously choosing quality of thinking and “preparation” before a session. It comes from capacities determined / permitted / enabled in this background substrate which literally orients the balance of how your perceptions are attenuated to threats or opportunities. “Normal” is unbalanced, skewed to threat based processing. In Tom’s case, yes his “preparation” paid off… but what I’m saying is it was really his capacity (his underlying freedom) to “prepare” that paid off.

re “here is a problem, lets find the solution. I always liked his style” Still using Tom as an example, he may be discussing or describing it in terms of a “problem” but he is an example of someone whose mind is not really working with it like it is a “problem” / with something that is going wrong / that needs to be fixed at all. His mind work is emerging from a substrate context/orientation of “what’s working?” not “what’s wrong?”. In another thread, gosu recently alluded to how rare a strengths based approach really is… what I’m layering in here is that this approach is not something you can choose from daily thought to thought on a consistent basis UNLESS that more neutral , free emotional substrate is in place.

“the protection of what they have” when explored more deeply reveals itself often to be a pretense of rationality. The neurology (to keep it brief) is actually highly defensive - built and maintained to keep emotional / experiential oscillations within a small range. There’s really no access to true rationality at all. Genuine mental ‘doing’ is impossible. Such a trader can’t really “prepare” well – at least not consistently… even with lots of willpower...

 

Haven’t seen this particular interview but it should be noted that Tom B is a true trend follower (ie where outliers truly ARE the edge) and many of the risk, etc. ‘lessons’ traders think may be possibly garnered from his thinking are not practically applicable / easily transferrable to more typical traders and systems.

 

Regardless of all the reasons behind why, how or what, its always interesting to see when people initially start they either have a disregard for risk (they usually blow up), a total aversion to risk (they dont make enough money when they are right) or a mindset that they are quite happy to take good risk reward calculated risks.

 

... an astute profile / scale for traders. I wonder how many know to really understand where they are on this scale and where they need to be... big part of fitting your system to your nature and something all would be advised to fine tune as much as possible - myself included when trying to accomodate multiple styles... Thanks

Edited May 1, 2012 by zdo

[SIUYA 11]

re “here is a problem, lets find the solution. I always liked his style” Still using Tom as an example, he may be discussing or describing it in terms of a “problem” but he is an example of someone whose mind is not really working with it like it is a “problem” / with something that is going wrong / that needs to be fixed at all. His mind work is emerging from a substrate context/orientation of “what’s working?” not “what’s wrong?”. In another thread, gosu recently alluded to how rare a strengths based approach really is…

 

Good point.....in my summary I just blurted out that, but you are correct, he does approach from a different angle and the interview has this in parts when he talks about working out how he developed his ideas.

Its has been referenced before in other threads (thx gosu) and seems much the same here.

Often you dont need to see it as how to fix weaknesses, you might be better spending your time improving your strengths....or another way to see it from a traders point of view is how do I minimise the impact of my bad/loosing trades (as they will occur) and how do I maximise the returns on the ones I get right. By maybe modifying things usually (at a guess) that reduce the numbers of trades, rather than trying to impove entries and exits.

ie; dont do anything radically different in the actual trades themselves and search for the holy grail.

 

(Re Tom Basso and his style - yes, he is a trend follower, but I think this discussion and listening to the interview would be helpful regardless of your style.)

Edited May 1, 2012 by SIUYA

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

Haven’t seen this particular interview but it should be noted that Tom B is a true trend follower (ie where outliers truly ARE the edge) and many of the risk, etc. ‘lessons’ traders think may be possibly garnered from his thinking are not practically applicable / easily transferrable to more typical traders and systems.

 

I personally find it fascinating that these traders continue to thrive. Whilst quant funds and HFTs continue to spend millions of dollars developing systems built on assumptions of stochastic price behaviour (and of course make billions of dollars from these models) . . . There are a handful of these guys who simply sit in the markets and wait with infinite patience for the outliers that they know will surely arrive.

 

Whilst I agree that many technical elements of trend following aren't really adaptable to what any of us here do (unless you happen to be managing several billion dollars across a fifty market portfolio!), I think there are certain more abstract lessons to be learnt from the trend followers:

 

- Traders need to have an overall generalised view, or 'philosophy', of the markets - without this kind of belief system traders have no way in which to structure what they do with any consistency. This perspective needs to be derived from some basic 'truth' that transcends the specifics of any strategy that may aim to capture it.

 

- A trader needs to be comfortable with the ultimate uncertainty of the process they are engaged in and realise that even the most consistent types of market behavior will necessarily produce exceptions.

 

BlueHorseshoe

[MightyMouse 12]

I personally find it fascinating that these traders continue to thrive. Whilst quant funds and HFTs continue to spend millions of dollars developing systems built on assumptions of stochastic price behaviour (and of course make billions of dollars from these models) . . . There are a handful of these guys who simply sit in the markets and wait with infinite patience for the outliers that they know will surely arrive.

 

Whilst I agree that many technical elements of trend following aren't really adaptable to what any of us here do (unless you happen to be managing several billion dollars across a fifty market portfolio!), I think there are certain more abstract lessons to be learnt from the trend followers:

 

- Traders need to have an overall generalised view, or 'philosophy', of the markets - without this kind of belief system traders have no way in which to structure what they do with any consistency. This perspective needs to be derived from some basic 'truth' that transcends the specifics of any strategy that may aim to capture it.

 

- A trader needs to be comfortable with the ultimate uncertainty of the process they are engaged in and realise that even the most consistent types of market behavior will necessarily produce exceptions.

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

Hedge funds do not make billions on HFT and stochastic models of price behavior. They face the same market we all do, unless they are using privileged or inside information that is not available to us.The market humbles all egos, not just the egos of small retail traders. They earn money by generating fees. They need everyone to think that they are making billions and billions to be able to continue attracting money so that they can continue to generate fees.

 

A lot of hedgefund managers have niche funds which have not too much to do with taking risk in the financial markets; instead, they capitalize on other arbitrage situations created by securities law, federal and state laws, and etc.

 

I do agree that we are so much better off waiting for the outlier trades than trying to make sense of every single ripple in the market. Most of the guys in "Market Wizards" made their fortunes by following the longer term trends and catching big moves.

 

A few things though: A., you have to be patient to trade those trends, ignoring all technical signals that commonly impact a trader, B., these trend moves have to happen during the period of time within which you are trading. C., you have to reach a level of satisfaction during the time within which you are trading so that you can keep the wealth you have accumulated from trading trends. Folklore aside, a lot of the traders in "market wizards" have gone broke since then.

[karoshiman 10]

 

...

 

Folklore aside, a lot of the traders in "market wizards" have gone broke since then.

 

 

 

Hi MM,

 

Agree with your post, but where did you get that info from? And to which Wizards are you relating? Anyone from the first Wizard book?

 

Regards,

k

[MightyMouse 12]

Hi MM,

 

Agree with your post, but where did you get that info from? And to which Wizards are you relating? Anyone from the first Wizard book?

 

Regards,

k

 

Do a search on some of the names.

 

Richard Dennis, one of the most well known, was sewed and was apparently bankrupt and could not pay.

 

You will find George Soros earned a modest % over his lifetime and not meteoric percentage you would expect from his notoriety.. George Soros also has the dubious distinction of being on the list of The Largest Losing Traders.

 

The same is true of Paul Tudor Jones, et al. All made modest returns in the 10% area. Each fund managing "Wizard" practices the tricks of splitting a fund or moving the bad funds out of the line-up to maintain a sellable win rate so they can collect fees.

 

The key word is "Sell". These guys are salesmen and are constantly promoting themselves to attract funds so that they can collect fees. The truth has not proved a good sales tool for attracting funds. Bullshit sells a lot better.

 

The best thing to do is look at the track records and fund histories of these guys and make your own judgement.

 

If we judged you only by your best trades, you would be a trading rock star too.

[SIUYA 11]

Hedge funds do not make billions on HFT and stochastic models of price behavior. They face the same market we all do, unless they are using privileged or inside information that is not available to us.The market humbles all egos, not just the egos of small retail traders. They earn money by generating fees. They need everyone to think that they are making billions and billions to be able to continue attracting money so that they can continue to generate fees.

 

A lot of hedgefund managers have niche funds which have not too much to do with taking risk in the financial markets; instead, they capitalize on other arbitrage situations created by securities law, federal and state laws, and etc.

 

I do agree that we are so much better off waiting for the outlier trades than trying to make sense of every single ripple in the market. Most of the guys in "Market Wizards" made their fortunes by following the longer term trends and catching big moves.

 

A few things though: A., you have to be patient to trade those trends, ignoring all technical signals that commonly impact a trader, B., these trend moves have to happen during the period of time within which you are trading. C., you have to reach a level of satisfaction during the time within which you are trading so that you can keep the wealth you have accumulated from trading trends. Folklore aside, a lot of the traders in "market wizards" have gone broke since then.

 

It is interesting as taking out the wizards that were market makers, arbitragers, etc; you seemingly get left with a few that were either trend followers, and even less who where short term speculators relying on their own edge. (The HFT guys, well who knows what they are up to, speed, inside edges, front running ??)

 

so of these last two groups in question....

The trend followers (generally) have certainly not done so well over the last decade and yet still (if they were doing it properly) managed to make good money in 2008, and some still produce consistent returns and build assets under management.

But regardless - there are business models and there are trading models and they are often different. One might be a fee gatherer the other needs to make money, and as some large hedge funds show that it is either because they had some spectacular one off wins, (Paulson?) which get them the AUM and fees or that they have great business skills and outsource to smaller internal managers and basically diversify, diversify, diversify.

(you know many managers go under due to poor business decisions, and not necessarily poor returns, though these might factor in to the business decisions - eg; too many mouths to feed, declining AUM, pain in the ass clients who want madoff like returns rather than returns and then they complain about fees. )

 

Its the same thing though - its tough to make a living purely off this game and I still think in much the same vein as everyone is saying its that patience (waiting for the outliers, good entry points as we are nimble, running profits etc) is our best edge.

 

(my stinking internet keeps dropping out today - auto traders for exits dont work when that happens :doh:)

[karoshiman 10]

 

...

 

If we judged you only by your best trades, you would be a trading rock star too.

 

 

I AM a trading rock star!!!

 

That's what journal keeping is about... just leave out your losers...

 

Thanks for your reply.

[TimRacette 11]

Great thread. It seems not only is fear the result of potential loss, but lack of clarity. Thinking to aspects outside of trading we become fearful when trying something for the first time, but as we become more familiar with it the fear begins to diminish and it becomes comfortable. A few examples that come to mind are public speaking, moving to a new city, meeting your significant other for the first time. The more clarity we can bring in terms of preparation, solidifying our trading setups, and time in front of the screen, the more the fear subsides and confidence takes over. That's been my experience.

[SIUYA 11]

Each fund managing "Wizard" practices the tricks of splitting a fund or moving the bad funds out of the line-up to maintain a sellable win rate so they can collect fees.

.

 

noooooooo......you mean if regulations stopped this it would be shown up.

...you mean they side pocket bad trades, split funds, back two strategies for a while and then promote the one that works, use their research and contacts to keep the really plum trades for themselves - after of course the fund is set for their 3% of AUM.

Damn - and I thought only the investment banks did this.

 

MM - do you have the actual returns of these guys funds if you had invested in them?

[zdo 20]

... I think there are certain more abstract lessons to be learnt from the trend followers:

 

- Traders need to have an overall generalised view, or 'philosophy', of the markets - without this kind of belief system traders have no way in which to structure what they do with any consistency. This perspective needs to be derived from some basic 'truth' that transcends the specifics of any strategy that may aim to capture it.

 

- A trader needs to be comfortable with the ultimate uncertainty of the process they are engaged in and realise that even the most consistent types of market behavior will necessarily produce exceptions.

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

True trend following is my greatest trading challenge - even though consciously I am in deep awareness that sticking with outliers in seasonal trading in the early days kept me in the game long enough to get good at ways more aligned to my own nature...

 

... and mentions of the trail of 'wizard' blowups is just a timely reminder -

"Victory Destroys Knowledge" DanJohn

(plus

"Everything works until it doesn't" DanJohnson )

 

 

 

:grin:

 

I went for many, many years trading without any explicit “overall generalised view” – and it was fine for the most part. It didn’t 'cause' or prevent my episodic ‘fears’ or add or detract from my trading. Then some sort of ‘maturation’ kicked in and I started looking at the bigger picture (as BlueHorseshoe put it , the “philosophy” ) and working to build a gestalt at that level

For me personally, it has been a real struggle too … things macro, while fascinating, have always been outside my natural wheelhouse … or at least it’s not something I got an early start at in life or had ready models for or had any easy grip on…

 

…and you know what?

The uncertainty is still around. How the middle part coming up, the consequences to and suffering of the peeps, etc is still uncertain. But the uncertainty of what the ultimate outcome of this conflagration of ‘networks’ (NWO’s etc.) grows less and less ‘uncertain’ by the day…

 

:cryptc:

 

This Is the First Time In History that All Central Banks Have Printed Money at the Same Time … And They’re Failing Miserably - Washington's Blog

 

The Neurobiology of Fear

 

The Natural Resonance Revolution by Drew Hempel (Paperback) - Lulu

 

charles hugh smith-We Are Not Powerless: Resisting Financial Feudalism

 

...

 

The other evening my wife and I were talking about some friends and she joked that it was amazing to her that they thought I was “well adjusted”. I replied that maybe I sometimes appear to be well adjusted because the ADHD keeps me from getting too compulsing in any one part of the OCD and I’m usually able to confine expressions of the Paranoid Schizophrenia to internet posting. She laughed… (and boys - let me tell you, after 25 years of marriage - that’s a good sign…)

 

I’ve not been able to leave many quality, comprehensible footprints about my “overall generalised view” … but here and there have left a few pecker tracks :rofl:.

...you know what ?? ..Bottom line – while offshore alternatives and PM’s and food and water and such are important – spiritual ‘prepping’ is far far more important …

 

“resistance forms archetypes” ????

 

TimRac's support notwithstanding…after what we’ve done with this thread TN is probably rolling over in his negotiation…

 

:grin:

[MightyMouse 12]

noooooooo......you mean if regulations stopped this it would be shown up.

...you mean they side pocket bad trades, split funds, back two strategies for a while and then promote the one that works, use their research and contacts to keep the really plum trades for themselves - after of course the fund is set for their 3% of AUM.

Damn - and I thought only the investment banks did this.

 

MM - do you have the actual returns of these guys funds if you had invested in them?

 

No I do not have actual figures, but you would have done well if you invested in their good funds.. The issue is that they promote their bad ones as being as good as their bad ones until they turn bad. So we have to guess at which is good and which is bad.

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

Hello,

 

I appear to have started a discussion about the ways in which CTAs market their funds.

 

This wasn't my intention, and it's also a complete deviation from the topic of the thread, not to mention rather dull, so I don't want to make a long deal out of this but . . . MightyMouse, are you saying that a fund such as, say, Citadel, doesn't make its money out of stochastic pricing models?

 

BlueHorseshoe