Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

nbowers79

Options Log

Recommended Posts

I will post up some of my options positions(not actual size though) here to see if anyone has some good feedback to perhaps help me some. I'm new to spread strategies and have had a rocky start. I had purchased some amzn puts last week and sold them this morning to put on a vertical put spread on NFLX, I went with the 100/85 spread. So far so good. All comments are welcome. Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you need help/ideas/suggestions you will likely need to post a chart of what you are thinking and why, plus more info regards the options you are trading.....reason being that there are so many possibilities when it comes to strikes, series, strategies and price from a risk reward point of view is paramount.

eg; selling a 50 tick put spread at 20 might actually make sense in some scenarios but not others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... I'm new to spread strategies and have had a rocky start...

 

Have you traded options on a straight directional basis? Are you using these trades to take a position based upon you assumptions concerning earnings announcements and the market's subsequent reaction?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Have you traded options on a straight directional basis? Are you using these trades to take a position based upon you assumptions concerning earnings announcements and the market's subsequent reaction?

 

 

Hi I have taken directional positions via in the money options but for the spread positions I have been buying slightly out of the money positions I use the spread strategy in this instance to help offset the cost of volitility and time. In my experience time is worth little and I try to minimize its cost whenever I can. Also I usually take the position about 3-5 days before earnings and I do it with stocks that seem to be trending. Usually large cap stocks where the options spread is at least 5%. I don't use weekly options, I consider weekly options the same as gambling at a casino.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi I have taken directional positions via in the money options but for the spread positions ...

 

Why are you trading spreads now? Did you or did you not make money trading long options?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why are you trading spreads now? Did you or did you not make money trading long options?

 

I decided to try my hand at spreads in order to further reduce the cost of time and volitility. And yes I was making money trading in the money options. I will continue to do both in the future as well. As for now the spread seems to offer a good opportunity to reduce risk and increase return.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... the spread seems to offer a good opportunity to reduce risk and increase return.

 

How does a spread reduce risk over a straight long option position? How does a spread increase return, i.e. profit potential over a simple long call or long put?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How does a spread reduce risk over a straight long option position? How does a spread increase return, i.e. profit potential over a simple long call or long put?

 

Hi,

 

I'm no expert so if anyone has a better explanation please feel free to cut in, or if I am not correct also please cut in.......In response to your questions about risk reduction and higher returns via spreads:

 

If you go into the market and buy 1 in the one in the money put(specifically the june16 110) at todays closing price it would cost you 10.05 per contract plus commission.....

the delta on these as of the closing is -.88 so for every dollar the underlying stock moves your option price would move .88 cents. ......so you have 1005 dollars invested in this thing and if you want a 40% return you need the stock to go in your favor about 5 dollars.......

 

In this instance you have 1005 at risk for a possible return of 40% and we're not sure how long it will take to get there....

 

If you look at a put spread on cat say from 100 to 95.00 you would only need to invest 173.00 for about the same profit except when you factor in that you are only investing 173 and when it has reached your max profit level it will be worth 500.00 your actual percentage return would be far greater. Here your risk is only 173 dollars where the long put was 1005.

 

Hopefully this explanation is close to correct and you find it helpful! Good luck in your trading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is very frustrating that it takes 12-24 hours for my posts to appear. I understand the desire to moderate messages from new members, but at ET and other forums the moderation process takes minutes to an hours or so. Every post I have made here has not been posted to the thread until the day after I submitted it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But if CAT drops to 80, your profit on the long put is 20, but your spread has maxed out at a price of 5 and a profit of 3.27, right?

 

 

Hi while you are correct that if cat drops to 80 the long puts would have more profit, it doesn't alter the fact that when comparing the two strategies over the same price range the spread takes a fraction of investment to put on and returns a far higher percentage yield for the risk taken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This morning I got into a call spread on aapl. I went with jun575/590 looks like it might have some bounce to it. aapl was trading at 562.50 when I entered the position.

 

Doubled down this morning.........we'll see how this works. I was kind of thinking the huge reaction to Europe would have happened yesterday....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty new to options as well, only been messing with them about 6 months. I've made some money on LNKD following some more experienced traders at this chat site(best of luck to you) :

 

http://www.optionmillionaires.com/2012/where-is-the-market-headed-tomorrow/

 

"Where is the market headed tomorrow?

Published May 9, 2012 | By jimmybob

 

inShare

 

Most daytraders close out their positions before the close. Making a living trading stocks is all about controlling your risks, and obviously there is more risk when you hold an equity overnight. Who knows what type of news can come out before the market opens that may impact your holdings. Better to lock-in the gain or loss before the close, and wait for the next trading day. That is, unless you are an option trader. Why? Well some of the most Epic moves come from holding a position over a few days.

 

Lets use todays move on LinkedIn(LNKD) as an example.

 

Stocks like LinkedIn (LNKD) are susceptible to volatile moves which is caused by the varying opinions of the ‘proper’ valuation of the stock. There are those who think a stock with a P/E ratio of 800 is a bubble and then the ones with the foresight(like myself) who are more forward looking, and think LinkedIn (LNKD) is undervalued. Bulls and bears squared off today. With Greece grabbing the headlines again (puke) causing a market sell off, LinkedIn(LNKD) fell over 8% to $101.53.

 

Its at that moment when option traders start to salivate. Not more then 3 trading days ago, LinkedIn (LNKD) traded over $120, now it sat almost 20% off its highs. CALLS! Buying the calls today at that moment would have resulted in some huge returns. But it those who hold for another day or two that may reap the big rewards. Take a look at the possible return today on the LinkedIn (LNKD) $11o calls. $550 into $4,400 possible.

 

 

 

But if you have read our blog, your know we are extremely bullish on LinkedIn(LNKD). Todays action maybe a prelude to the stock trading firmly above $120, which would result in those calls being up substantially more. Time will tell.

 

 

 

Where is the market headed tomorrow? We have used the VIX the last few months as a forward looking indicator, along with some other signals. The VIX pushed through the upper bollie, only to fall back through it. We think this is a key reversal signal. Take a look at the chart below:

 

 

 

 

 

The great thing about options is, you only need to be right a few times out of 10 to make some serious cash. Check back after tomorrow and let us know how we did.

Edited by OptionsBaller

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exited apple for about an 8% gain....would have liked more but the macro risks seem to be mounting in the world lately! I got into a small vertical put spread on the spy this afternoon in preparation for next week. I have been making more trades than I have intended lately but the market seems to be very volatile, and unsure about direction. Spy short looks like a good deal. Random question for anyone reading this: Do any of you use options oracle? I have tinkered around with it a little lately and am unsure about some of the probabilities its been giving me. Glad the week is over I'm tired.....it was a profitable week but seemed like a long one. Hope everyone has a calm, relaxing weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good morning. Looks like today will start out like a real barn burner! Hope everyone got some sleep over the weekend! Starting this week with the vertical put open on the spy. Also watching oil. Europe is looking really bad this morning.......I wonder how much will spill over into the US.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mid week now on the spy puts/spread....things working well. Market seems to be getting a little ahead of itself with the relentless selling but it seems at any time something could come out of Europe and just send this off a cliff. Stayed away from oil as I'm not informed enough to mess with it! If the market does come back some this will just happen again in June with the new round of elections.......Good luck to everyone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like it could have a big break soon. The technicals I watch seem to be sitting right on the edge of a drop.....a big drop. Obviously technical analysis is not a precise science/art so we'll know when we know but it really looks interesting. I'm still holding my spy puts/spread. It has treated me very well this week. I am not the most creative trader though......how have you all been managing in this downturn? Anyone watch cnbc last night as they were discussing the 13f filings and deere's earnings? I'd say someone on that show took a hit on deere!! I have some coffee to drink so good luck to everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great log! looks like market is falling apart and there is a rush to vxx and gold\silver. not sure how long it will last but i have calls on vxx and thinking of buying calls on gold\silver tomorrow

 

as for my equities, i'm rolling all my naked puts out and down, even as far out as sept

 

-mslk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I realize trading involves little to no manual labor this week has been exhausting! Glad the week is over. Thank you mslk for sharing your insight. Those vxx calls should be treating you well! Going to go catch up on some sleep for Monday!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time for an update. I closed out the spy spread on friday for a nice profit....unfortunately I was watching cat and decided that it was just a temporary spike so.....I bit. Took on some put contracts and closed them this morning for a nice loss! Luckily I went ahead and jumped on some bidu for the ride back up...not sure if this is a temporary bounce or change in trend but time will tell. Europe can't be fixed over night but I have found that you can't fight the tape and survive very long! I got in to Bidu with a 120/130 june call spread. It went through the bottom strike today and turned a morning loss in to a profit for the day we'll see how the rest of the week goes! Hope everyone had a nice weekend. Good luck this week should be exciting!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got out of bidu around 121.50........didn't leave much on the table. Hung around and picked up a put spread on aapl 560/550june.... its done me well this afternoon. Will probably close out of it in a day or two....... Apple was at 563.25 when the spread executed. Pretty wild swing this afternoon with the news out of greece. Not sure what to expect for tomorrow but technically aapl looked good so we'll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Well said. This principle is highly analogous to trading. Any human can easily click buy or sell when they "feel" that price is about to go up or down. The problem with feeling, commonly referred to as "instinctive" trading, is that it cannot be quantified. And because it cannot be quantified, it cannot be empirically tested. Instinctive trading has the lowest barrier to entry and therefore returns the lowest reward. As this is true for most things in life, this comes as no surprise. Unfortunately, the lowest barrier to entry is attractive to new traders for obvious reasons. This actually applied to me decades ago.🤭   It's only human nature to seek the highest amount of reward in exchange for the lowest amount of work. In fact, I often say that there is massive gray area between efficiency and laziness. Fortunately, losing for a living inspired me to investigate the work of Wall Street quants who refer to us as "fishfood" or "cannonfodder." Although I knew that we as retail traders cannot exploit execution rebates or queues like quants do, I learned that we can engage in automated scalp, swing, and trend trading. The thermonuclear caveat here, is that I had no idea how to write code (or program) trading algorithms. So I gravitated toward interface-based algorithm builders that required no coding knowledge (see human nature, aforementioned). In retrospect, I should never have traded code written by builder software because it's buggy and inefficient. However, my paid subscription to the builder software allowed me to view the underlying source code of the generated trading algo--which was written in MQL language. Due to a lack of customization in the builder software, I inevitably found myself editing the code. This led me to coding research which, in turn, led me to abandoning the builder software and coding custom algo's from scratch. Fast forward to the present, I can now code several trading strategies per day across 2 different platforms. Considering how inefficient manual backtesting is, coding is a huge advantage. When a new trading concept hits me, I can write the algo, backtest it, and optimize it within an hour or so--across multiple exchanges and symbols, and cycle through hundreds of different settings for each input. And then I get pages upon pages of performance metrics with the best settings pre-highlighted. Having said all of this, I am by no means an advanced programmer. IMHO, advanced programmers write API gateways, construct their own custom trading platforms, use high end computers with field programmable gateway array chips, and set up shop in close proximity to the exchanges. In any event, a considerable amount of work is required just to get toward the top of the "fishfood"/"cannonfodder" pool. Another advantage of coding is that it forces me to write trade entry and exit conditions (triggers) in black & white, thereby causing me to think microscopically about my precise trade trigger conditions. For example, I have to decide whether the algo should track the slope, angle, and level of each bar price and indicator to be used. Typing a hard number like 50 degrees of angle into code is a lot different than merely looking at a chart myself and saying, that's close enough.  Code doesn't acknowledge "maybe" nor "feelings." Either the math (code) works (is profitable) or doesn't work (is a loser). It doesn't get angry, sad, nor overly optimistic. And it can trade virtually 24 hours per day, 5 days per week. If you learn to code, you'll eventually reach a point where coding an algo that trades as you intended provides its own sense of accomplishment. Soon after, making money in the market merely becomes a side effect of your new job--coding. This is how I compete, at least for now, in this wide world of trading. I highly recommend it.  
    • VRA Vera Bradley stock watch, pull back to 5.08 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?VRA
    • MU Micron stock watch, pull back to 102.83 gap support area with high trade quality at https://stockconsultant.com/?MU
    • ACLX Arcellx stock watch, trending at 84.6 support area with bullish indicators at https://stockconsultant.com/?ACLX
    • Here’s something few are talking about: The Chinese are printing money like it's going out of style. Not that you'd hear about it in the mainstream news. But Bitcoin knows.   Bitcoin always knows.   Here’s the thing…   When the Chinese government prints money to paper over the cracks, their smart money doesn't sit around waiting to get devalued.   It usually flows into three things: Bitcoin, gold, and dollars.   After years of being beaten down, gold's having one of its best years in decades. But here's the secret -- whatever gold does, Bitcoin's going to do it bigger.   Much bigger.   Since last November, when China started their printing spree, Bitcoin's been moving in near-perfect correlation with the People's Bank of China's balance sheet. Over 80% correlation, maybe even 90%.   Again, few are talking about it.   But here's why this matters right now: This could be the beginning of a huge breakout in the crypto markets.   Bitcoin broke above its July high, and historically, that's led to new all-time highs over 90% of the time. The only times it failed? COVID and the 2022 bear market.   That's it.” – Chris Campbell   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/     
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.