Who Has A Strategy That Works??

[Joseph Connors 10]

 

....

 

A final comment about obtaining "proof"...I realize that is it fashionable to request financial records from vendors....hey...have at it if you must but from my point of view it is much better to do your own investigation. Not only can you obtain the data (your ultimate proof) but the advantage you get from doing this work yourself is that you have up to date evidence that a strategy works (or does not) and if you find something worth doing, the work you did to "prove it" provides you the internal confidence that helps you to "pull the trigger" confidently when you are trading it yourself....

 

 

Regarding "proof" as regards to strategy performance and trading acumen, the old saying comes to mind "those that can, do ... those that can't, teach" (or in this case, sell! ). When you ask someone to spend thousands of dollars for a strategy or course of study, you surely don't expect someone to do this on faith, do you? They want to have some idea that the strategy they are purchasing has some validity and certainly that the person selling it has a past (preferably extensive) history of making money trading this strategy and trading (making money )in general.

[steve46 12]

Try paying attention to the context joseph (it will help you to find your own success)

 

Those who can....do.....that is what I am doing....I no longer teach (therefore I have nothing to sell).....and even when I did I traded my own account during class (in contrast to felton who traded a sim)....also I charged my students $200 a month....not "thousands"....in my opinion no vendor should charge "thousands" to learn how to trade....

 

I speak for myself now....from my point of view my financial records are none of your business....my ability to trade IS however.... and for my students I displayed that ability in real time over a period of a week so that they could see (before paying) for themselves. I taught two classes....in the first I had a problem with my data feed and we had to stop for period of time...until it could be fixed...for the second...we had no problems and the class went smoothly...at the end of my class students were asked to stop and go out on their own to prove to themselves that they could make it in this business..for better or worse that is how I chose to do it.....its history now...and I notice that none of them have posted comments to the contrary....

 

Finally my comments are meant to encourage folks to become their own teacher....again pay attention please....if you do this yourself you pay nothing except for your time....and if you choose that road....I suggest that you (all of you) take the time to properly research your ideas and gather enough data (I suggest a mimimum of 100 and preferrably 400 data points) to justify putting money at risk...

 

Best of luck to everyone

Edited July 7, 2012 by steve46

[Joseph Connors 10]

Try paying attention to the context joseph (it will help you to find your own success)

 

Those who can....do.....that is what I am doing....I no longer teach (therefore I have nothing to sell).....and even when I did I traded my own account during class (in contrast to felton who traded a sim)....also I charged my students $200 a month....not "thousands"....in my opinion no vendor should charge "thousands" to learn how to trade....

 

I speak for myself now....from my point of view my financial records are none of your business....my ability to trade IS however.... and for my students I displayed that ability in real time over a period of a week so that they could see (before paying) for themselves. I taught two classes....in the first I had a problem with my data feed and we had to stop for period of time...until it could be fixed...for the second...we had no problems and the class went smoothly...at the end of my class students were asked to stop and go out on their own to prove to themselves that they could make it in this business..for better or worse that is how I chose to do it.....its history now...and I notice that none of them have posted comments to the contrary....

 

Steve:

 

I'm not referring to you specifically. You demonstrated your trading acumen BEFORE people paid for your class. That is the way it should be. But it is caveat emptor. I'm just saying that trading acumen needs to be demonstrated before I would buy.

 

By the way, you state " Try paying attention to the context joseph (it will help you to find your own success)". Who's to say that I am not successful at trading? That is my whole point! We are all anonymous on the net and can effectively be whoever we want to be.

[pipfarm 10]

What are the starting points or methods that we newbies or struggling traders should be looking at for discovering that certain edge and or coming up with the bread and butter or go to strategy that is different from the copied mass strategies.

 

Where is starting point of how to come up with these edge's?

 

How did you successful traders find your edge, or the process you went through to achieve this accomplishment?

[steve46 12]

I'll offer this comment and then I'm done. After all I no longer do this (teach) for a living

 

The starting point is learning to characterize the way your target market behaves from start to finish....on a typical day, how does the market open....for example does the market open and move one way for the first few minutes, then reverse and trend? how does the market act on days when economic reports are released, on days when "bellweather" companies present earnings, or on days when news about the European crisis hit the wires?

 

How does it act during mid-day....what does the last hour look like? This is simply about your ability to observe and make notes about the market you want to trade...to the extent that you learn to observe and come away with useful info, you may find something that no one else sees....something that forms the basis for a profitable trading system.

 

Good luck

[MightyMouse 12]

What are the starting points or methods that we newbies or struggling traders should be looking at for discovering that certain edge and or coming up with the bread and butter or go to strategy that is different from the copied mass strategies.

 

Where is starting point of how to come up with these edge's?

 

How did you successful traders find your edge, or the process you went through to achieve this accomplishment?

 

If struggling means losing, then the first thing you need to do is get to be a break even trader. To get to be a break even trader you need to first identify the market you are in to know which entry strategy you want to apply. So, is the market ranging or is it trending or is it doing both? if it is ranging then you want to take trades at support or resistance. There are a multitude of entry set ups for this type of market on these threads. If it is trending, then you likely want to enter with some sort of pull back set up. A fib pullback or something like. If it is doing both, then you want a simple breakout set up to enter. Perhaps, a 1-2-3 set up.

 

Print out charts and circle and draw the trends, ranges, etc. and Identify what you should have done and when you should have done it.

 

The goal is to learn how to take these trades and execute the trade perfectly. Perfect execution means that you sit there and let it either hit your target or your stop and fight off all temptations to take additional actions. It also means that you do not chase an entry, do not modify your criteria for entry or exit because of a missed trade or a loss, etc. Most people can't do this. If you learn to do this then you'll have an edge over most traders. You might make money or lose money instead of breaking even. The money at this moment isn't important. The important thing to do is to move from being a struggling trader and the first step is to learn how to execute without fail even if it means losing money.

 

A fact that most "struggling traders" do not learn is that you have to lose money sometimes. A good strategy can and will lose money. Sometimes it is for days, or weeks or longer depending on what the strategy is. Just because it lost money, it does not mean that you need to change it or tweak it. What can occur is that the strategist, is applying the wrong strategy to the wrong market conditions (range, trend or breakout).. The strategy doesn't need to me "tweaked", it needs to be changed to a different strategy that suits the market conditions. But, if you got the conditions right, and you lose money, it does not mean that something is wrong even though your mind will think something is wrong. You need to learn this first so that you will have the will to execute the next trade even though the last one or couple failed.

 

The above will absolutely get you to breakeven over time and is a first step. Identifying conditions and execution.

[fast 10]

When someone has a system that works, I believe it’s generally better to share than not, unless the bulk of the system is proprietary or mostly adapted from one that is. The main reason I hold that belief is because the sheer attempt to share the intricacies of all that goes into a consistently profitable trading system forces oneself to become clearer in thought. In the pursuit of making others better traders, one becomes better themselves.

 

Teaching truly robust systems that stand the test of time and incorporate all the little things that many trading systems ignore can not only be incredibly time consuming, but they can often include components that are not fully objective. In the pursuit of teaching others and getting the much needed valuable feedback can often prompt further plan objectification, and by that, I mean the teacher him/herself is forced to find ways to eliminate those pesky elements that are subjective in nature.

 

The more pressing issue, to me, isn’t if a trader with the heart of a mentor should help others. I think the answer is yes. Instead, a harder issue to deal with is which mentor should a ready, willing, and able trader-in-the-making pursue.

 

I have fourteen years of short-term trading experience, and though most of what I know is self-taught, it wasn’t until I entrusted an unbelievably successful mentor did my trading take off to a new level.

[joshdance 10]

I'll offer this comment and then I'm done. After all I no longer do this (teach) for a living

 

The starting point is learning to characterize the way your target market behaves from start to finish....on a typical day, how does the market open....for example does the market open and move one way for the first few minutes, then reverse and trend? how does the market act on days when economic reports are released, on days when "bellweather" companies present earnings, or on days when news about the European crisis hit the wires?

 

How does it act during mid-day....what does the last hour look like? This is simply about your ability to observe and make notes about the market you want to trade...to the extent that you learn to observe and come away with useful info, you may find something that no one else sees....something that forms the basis for a profitable trading system.

 

Good luck

 

I think Steve has hit the nail on the head regarding a general approach. Many posters here and elsewhere seem to want to get the goods without getting to know the girl first. Why not learn the general behavior of the market you trade, as steve recommends here, and then trade it accordingly? Develop a relationship with the girl first, and then you don't have to guess as much what works :-)

[MightyMouse 12]

I think Steve has hit the nail on the head regarding a general approach. Many posters here and elsewhere seem to want to get the goods without getting to know the girl first. Why not learn the general behavior of the market you trade, as steve recommends here, and then trade it accordingly? Develop a relationship with the girl first, and then you don't have to guess as much what works :-)

 

God Josh. Please, anything but the girl analogy. Some of us come here to escape.

[Obsidian 10]

When someone has a system that works, I believe it’s generally better to share than not, unless the bulk of the system is proprietary or mostly adapted from one that is...

 

people make their own choices.

to share or not to share, it is up to them.

right or wrong, that is a relative concept.

[fast 10]

people make their own choices.

to share or not to share, it is up to them.

right or wrong, [...].

 

I don't disagree, and I didn't mean to suggest that there is some obligation on anyone's part to even so much as lend a helping hand.

 

There are advantages to teaching others, yet you're right, it's still up to the individual as to whether they will inform others of their methodologies. I didn't say that it's better to share than not, regardless of individual circumstances where the disadvantages may outweigh the advantages for some.

 

I was talking in more general terms only to point out that there is a great benefit to teaching others—a benefit to the mentor. What I believe is that it's generally (generally, that is) true that it's better to share what we've learned with others than to not do so, and one reason (the main reason) I cited is that it fosters clarity of thought, especially in regards to one's own trading. There are, of course, other reasons both for and against doing so.

 

Either way, it was never my intention to speak of what a trader ought or ought not do.

[joshdance 10]

God Josh. Please, anything but the girl analogy. Some of us come here to escape.

 

lol! :rofl:

[TimRacette 11]

I always liked this quote "The trader is the weakest link in any trading system" – Alexander Elder

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

I always liked this quote "The trader is the weakest link in any trading system" – Alexander Elder

 

Hi Tim,

 

If this is true (I would certainly tend to agree with you), then surely the solution is to take the trader out of the trading system as much as is possible?

 

BlueHorseshoe

[koyasan 10]

If this is true (I would certainly tend to agree with you), then surely the solution is to take the trader out of the trading system as much as is possible?

...............under pressure and over time every chain exposes a weak link...........all chains by definition have a weak link......an alternative solution is perhaps to find a way to play to the strengths of the trader within the trading system and therfore preserve the integrity of the chain?

[Obsidian 10]

I always liked this quote "The trader is the weakest link in any trading system" – Alexander Elder

 

that is soooooo true...

gonna check if there are any scientific researches about this

[Obsidian 10]

Hi Tim,

 

If this is true (I would certainly tend to agree with you), then surely the solution is to take the trader out of the trading system as much as is possible?

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

I think it would be better to strengthen that instead of removing it

[SIUYA 11]

ask Knight financial?

[Blaiserboy 10]

There are many threads in this forum that describe methods that people have worked with for years and done very well with them.

 

People change their thinking and then they change their trading plan. The system will still be working but that particular trader has become bored or disappointed so he looks for another approach.

 

I was looking the other day at some threads by Walter The Chimp.. his rainbow approach....... he made a lot of money with that as did a group of the thread members....... all of a sudden the thread died, everyone lost interest.

 

And that has happened to many, many great approaches.

[Blaiserboy 10]

ask Knight financial?

 

Yes, their system worked.......... it just didn't work the way they wanted it to.....:rofl:

[Patuca 13]

if one wants to be a day trader then pick one or two markets. watch them live for three or four months every day just to get a feel how they move. watch in different time frame..30 min..15..5min..1 min..etc. better yet record each days session and watch in different time frames as you are able. just make sure you get at least 3 months watching time...no trading..no sim.. just watching and observing how that particular market moves in different time frames. just getting a general feel for the market. during this time try to determine what time period you would be more comfortable trading. much of trading is about "discovery".

 

from observing the charts in different time frame over 4 months or so you should have probally seen that prices trend up or down. they also trade in ranges where they basically track sideways. most ranges will also have micro trends within them.

 

my idea of trading (simplistic as it may seem) is too take advantage of what happens over and over in the markets..i.e. trends and ranges.

 

in trends i have discovered that trading pullbacks in trends is a good strategy. not just any trend trading methodolgy but trading "with" trend strategies that enter on pullbacks. simple but effective. you just need to make sure you are doing this in a trend and not a micro trend. markets tend to trend probally 30% of the time or so. of course that varies some but i am speaking in general terms.

 

next develop or find range trading strategies. since markets track sideways about 70% of the time in general, this too is an effective strategy. basically you would develop or find techniques that give entry for shorting near top of the range and entries for going long near the bottom.

 

focus on one or two markets..learn them well...then sim them for a few months..then and only then look at going live.

 

keep things simple..use candles..focus on PA learn a few things well..practice them alot..then look at trading...follow the obvious in the markets..

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

Yes, their system worked.......... it just didn't work the way they wanted it to.....:rofl:

 

Or maybe their system was 'screw up then get bailed out', in which case it's still working pretty well!

 

BlueHorseshoe

[Blaiserboy 10]

I have, what I consider, to be a fairly good system, I make a few dollars with it.

 

I have whatever tools I need to trade it very effectively, some days I look to be brilliant.

 

Today..... I closed the charts because I can not see the trades...... is my system crap...... better thinking tells me that I am not focused.

 

Instead of changing the system, I am doing replay..... I have done 'change the system' or 'get a new system' too many times, the one I have is great, sometimes I am dumb........

[Jack Francisco 10]

I have a strategy that works , at least for me. But why should I tell anyone? What's the motivation? If you like, I'll tell you - for , oh let's say, $5000. It took me years and several accounts to develop it, so why should I give it away for free? Ifd you want to know - you pay. Welcome to the real world!

 

That guys tries to be a signal seller. He will take all your money.

 

The best strategy is we must follow the trend if the trend is up we must buy from low. We must wait until we got the right time to enter a trade. If we open a trade against the trend, make sure it's just retracement and always put tight stop loss so we won't blow our account.

 

:helloooo:

[SIUYA 11]

Or maybe their system was 'screw up then get bailed out', in which case it's still working pretty well!

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

Re Knight - I am sure their system worked most of the time, it just seems surprising that they had no big red get me out button for when it was not working. It seems they took too much of the trader out of it. To blow your company up that quickly is pretty scary.

 

they did not get bailed out, they have been diluted

Washington post -- "But the rescue, which came down to the wire, had a steep price: control of the firm. Knight’s new investors will gain a 73 percent stake in the company and three board seats. ......The value of current shareholders’ stake will also be heavily diluted. And Knight, which has removed the problem software and is still completing its own investigation of what went wrong, faces a difficult task of rebuilding trust with clients and persuading regulators that Wednesday’s disaster was an anomaly. Its stock has plunged 70 percent since last Tuesday, before the glitch happened."

 

The cheapest part of any strategy is waiting. While it does have its high times and is great when you get it wrong speed still kills.....maybe that's a road sign Knight might ironically adopt.