If I Hear "price Action" or "setup" ONE More Time...

[SunTrader 10]

..... while I was a guest speaker at a Money Show in Vegas ...... New "gurus" pop up overnight .....

Uh huh. .

[SunTrader 10]

The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.

[karoshiman 10]

 

...

 

No periodic tweaking allowed either when market dynamics trash the auto trader system. It must be able to automatically adjust to whatever is going on in the market at any given time. It should be able to trade any market that moves and be profitable in volatile, choppy and trending markets.

 

 

 

To compare apples with apples, it would make the most sense if it would be a "forward performance" competition (don't have a better word for it), i.e. the autotrader can tweak the system with any period he or she likes but then the system and you would have to trade the same period live (e.g. starting January 1st 2013)... with whatever the market conditions are during the agreed period.

 

Without knowing anything about your discretionary methodology or your consistency it might be possible that you cannot repeat the performance you mentioned, just as the autotrader system might not be able to repeat its performance from the optimization and testing period.

 

However, I believe also that no mechanical system can beat a good + consistent discretionary trader. Markets/humans are just not mechanical...

[Roger Felton 10]

I'm not sure how this thread became a "Let's kick Roger around a while" topic but let me put the cards on the table. I've been a member here long enough to get a pretty good idea of the member mindset and I determined it's just not for me. But, for the record, here's what I'm trying to do:

 

I'm seeking a couple of honest individuals who are struggling to succeed as traders. Assuming they have at least some trading experience, what I wanted to propose was to let me work with them for one week. At the end of that week, I will personally guarantee that they will be able to identify excellent market entries in real time 95% or more of the time they spend in front of their charts. Since I cannot force anyone to actually take any particular trade, I can't guarantee that they will make any money...many traders have serious emotional issues that are beyone my control. But I can guarantee they will see the trades in plenty of time to take them and they will easily be able to recognize their profit potential. They will also know the exact moment to exit each trade. They will also know how to spot the majority of the few trade signals that are likely to fizzle.

 

Pretty bold stuff but I know what I can do and I'm willing to stake my 15 year reputation on it (which is impeccable, by the way. I've never been sued, censored, fined or even investigated by any agency. We enjoy a spotless A rating at the BBB while most other "competitors" wouldn't dare join that group).

 

What are the terms?

 

1. To keep an open mind and be willing to learn something only a handful of traders know about.

 

2. To never pay me a dime for anything at any time.

 

3. To allow me to work with them daily for one week.

 

4. To go back to their group, forum, etc. and give a full honest report on the experience and how they are doing.

 

What do I get out of this?

 

The best I could hope for is simple professional respect. I know I'll never get that from everyone no matter what I do (especially here) but it would be refreshing to be able to join and log into a trading forum and not be verbally spit upon. Who knows, I might even make some friends along the way.

 

I can make a huge difference in trader performance and consistency if given a fair chance. I also know that the fairness in traders I seek won't be found here. But I know they do exist and I'll find them...and we'll all enjoy the ride.

 

Don't bother to continue to rip me because I won't be back to read it or respond.

[SunTrader 10]

Roger Felton has left the building....

 

Nice bit of prose there btw Suntrader.

As they say.... money talks and ........

 

Recognize the prose ?

Edited May 30, 2012 by SunTrader

[joshdance 10]

I've been a member here long enough to get a pretty good idea of the member mindset and I determined it's just not for me.

 

You joined three years ago, but your third post ever was last week -- you're not really a member, you're more like an onlooker. A member contributes, or attempts to. Not that it's good or bad; just saying, it's kind of strange that you don't post here, yet you say you know the member mindset simply by reading others' posts. Typically you have conversations with others to really get the culture, not just observe from afar.

 

Might I add that you are the one who originally posted here on this thread, back somewhere around post #21 or #23, sarcastically making light of the topic of "price" doing something versus a "market" doing something. I didn't bite, even when you mentioned your "students."

 

I'm seeking a couple of honest individuals who are struggling to succeed as traders.

...

Pretty bold stuff but I know what I can do and I'm willing to stake my 15 year reputation on it (which is impeccable, by the way. I've never been sued, censored, fined or even investigated by any agency. We enjoy a spotless A rating at the BBB while most other "competitors" wouldn't dare join that group).

 

I appreciate your generosity Roger, honestly, I do. I'd like to mention one thing though: many people have reason to believe that the BBB is not exactly the upstanding organization many people think it is. I'll post something on this later when I have more time if any wish. So, congrats for being in it, but I'm not impressed. Still, I do respect that you seem to be a very upright and moral individual. Kudos for being one of the few in this business.

 

I can make a huge difference in trader performance and consistency if given a fair chance. I also know that the fairness in traders I seek won't be found here. But I know they do exist and I'll find them...and we'll all enjoy the ride.

 

Don't bother to continue to rip me because I won't be back to read it or respond.

 

This sounds like sour grapes, and the kid who leaves the playground kicking the dirt. No need to go there Roger. I'm sure a few helpless traders will be tugging at your coat with private messages, begging to be one of the ones you help for free. You have threatened at least three times to leave, but you're still selling on your way out.

[karoshiman 10]

 

...

 

many people have reason to believe that the BBB is not exactly the upstanding organization many people think it is.

 

...

 

 

 

What is the BBB? Do I have to know it?

[gosu 10]

What is the BBB? Do I have to know it?

 

Only if you are interested in Big Beautiful Bitches.

[Patuca 13]

guess the mitsubishi challenge had him leaving in a huff. capitan rogelio and the two volunteer traders!

[gosu 10]

I'm not sure how this thread became a "Let's kick Roger around a while" topic but let me put the cards on the table. I've been a member here long enough to get a pretty good idea of the member mindset and I determined it's just not for me. But, for the record, here's what I'm trying to do:

 

I'm seeking a couple of honest individuals who are struggling to succeed as traders. Assuming they have at least some trading experience, what I wanted to propose was to let me work with them for one week. At the end of that week, I will personally guarantee that they will be able to identify excellent market entries in real time 95% or more of the time they spend in front of their charts. Since I cannot force anyone to actually take any particular trade, I can't guarantee that they will make any money...many traders have serious emotional issues that are beyone my control. But I can guarantee they will see the trades in plenty of time to take them and they will easily be able to recognize their profit potential. They will also know the exact moment to exit each trade. They will also know how to spot the majority of the few trade signals that are likely to fizzle.

 

Pretty bold stuff but I know what I can do and I'm willing to stake my 15 year reputation on it (which is impeccable, by the way. I've never been sued, censored, fined or even investigated by any agency. We enjoy a spotless A rating at the BBB while most other "competitors" wouldn't dare join that group).

 

What are the terms?

 

1. To keep an open mind and be willing to learn something only a handful of traders know about.

 

2. To never pay me a dime for anything at any time.

 

3. To allow me to work with them daily for one week.

 

4. To go back to their group, forum, etc. and give a full honest report on the experience and how they are doing.

 

What do I get out of this?

 

The best I could hope for is simple professional respect. I know I'll never get that from everyone no matter what I do (especially here) but it would be refreshing to be able to join and log into a trading forum and not be verbally spit upon. Who knows, I might even make some friends along the way.

 

I can make a huge difference in trader performance and consistency if given a fair chance. I also know that the fairness in traders I seek won't be found here. But I know they do exist and I'll find them...and we'll all enjoy the ride.

 

Don't bother to continue to rip me because I won't be back to read it or respond.

 

Hi Roger,

 

You sound butthurt. I thought it was pimp of you to flash a spare million in the faces of desperate programming hoes, and REALLY pimp that you had no intention of parting with it. But this needy side that's come out makes me doubt you are a playa.

 

Why are you looking for fairness and professional respect on a message board? Instead of coming on a message board "seeking a couple of honest individuals who are struggling to succeed as traders," why not focus on your paying customers? Or have you made them all millionaires and become bored so you need a new trick?

 

How skilled are you, Roger? Let's cut the crap and bypass the preliminaries. Forget doubling or tripling your account, have you grown your account an order of magnitude in a year starting with at least $10K ($1x to $10x)? If you have, my hat is off to you. Have you done 2 orders of magnitude ($1x to $100x) AND extracted more than $100K in a single day? If you have, then I am the fair and honest individual you are seeking and I will be your pupil for a week and come back here with a thorough and full report. Not only that, I will invite you to my home for a week to trade and you can see how I do things, and at the end of the week I will treat you to the best nightlife you have ever experienced. Leave your wife at home.

 

Shoot me a message into my PM box.

[MightyMouse 12]

The terms are simple. One million for an autotrader system that can just come close to my personal discretionary trading results. No more than 5 losing days per year and those must not lose more than 2% of the trading account balance on any losing day. No periodic tweaking allowed either when market dynamics trash the auto trader system. It must be able to automatically adjust to whatever is going on in the market at any given time. It should be able to trade any market that moves and be profitable in volatile, choppy and trending markets.

 

Takers?....I didn't think so. There is a reason why you and I don't autotrade.

 

Wow, you are pretty bold.

 

I have a system that has no losing days per year, does not require tweaking whatsoever, is profitable when a market is volatile, choppy, or trending.

 

Bold or not I don't think you have the balls or the money.

[joshdance 10]

What is the BBB? Do I have to know it?

 

It's an organization that's supposed to be an advocate for the consumer. If someone has a complaint against a business, they report it to the BBB, and others can see the complaint, and if it was investigated, and if the matter was resolved. It used to be a mark of a reputable business to have this. As you can see from this video, all it takes these days is a few bucks to be A+ rated.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo8kfV9kONw]Better Business Bureau 20/20 Investigation - YouTube[/ame]

[4EverMaAT 10]

For the past 12 years I have had a standing offer to anyone who had an autotraded system or black box that could reasonably compare with my discretionary trading performance over a period of just one year, and I would gladly pay them one million dollars for it. To date, no one has stepped forward. Does that say something?

One time a few pals of mine pooled together and purchased a robot (I think Gomega) which claimed that if the robot could not trade at least 5% monthly profit for 3 months with default settings, we could get full money back. We followed their instructions 100%, even using a VPS which wasn't a requirement, and provided their requested proof. They never argued with the proof, but instead said "we'll pay you back when we can". Obviously we never got our money back, but I did learn quite a bit from a different EA that was purchased. Lessons learned.

The terms are simple. One million for an autotrader system that can just come close to my personal discretionary trading results. No more than 5 losing days per year and those must not lose more than 2% of the trading account balance on any losing day. No periodic tweaking allowed either when market dynamics trash the auto trader system. It must be able to automatically adjust to whatever is going on in the market at any given time. It should be able to trade any market that moves and be profitable in volatile, choppy and trending markets.

 

Takers?....I didn't think so. There is a reason why you and I don't autotrade.

 

Let's take a closer look at this:

 

If you are going to demand that the automated trading system be left completely unattended during the contest period, then likewise, each method and exit must be documented in such a way that an onlooker could see what your rules are, and that the rules are being applied consistently each time. Just like the robot can adjust itself, you would be allowed to adjust your strategy, but it must be a logical adjustment that was already laid out in your original trading strategy prior to contest begin. You couldn't come up with a new rule after the fact. Pretty much, like the original turtle trading system, it would have to be mechanical, transparent, and clearly defined ahead of time.

 

Not lose more than 2% of trading account balance on any losing day. Or not more than 5 losing days per year. I don't know if anyone could guarantee that, meaning that each person's strategy may not work well under that condition. Wouldn't a more effective challenge would be to see how much the person could make by a certain date?

 

Now if you insist that you want to keep your system private, which is perfectly fine, then you must allow the other contestants (robots) to trade completely their own way also.

 

edit: added link for the original turtle trading system rules pdf

Edited May 31, 2012 by 4EverMaAT
added turtle rules link

[karoshiman 10]

Only if you are interested in Big Beautiful Bitches.

 

 

Nah... only interested in the middle B... but this is all anyway no top rating... I'd go with AA+... Awesome Amazons Plus... that's a pretty good rating... I leave it to your imagination, what the "plus" stands for...

[SIUYA 11]

Nah... only interested in the middle B... but this is all anyway no top rating... I'd go with AA+... Awesome Amazons Plus... that's a pretty good rating... I leave it to your imagination, what the "plus" stands for...

 

so long as the plus is NOT that little bit of extra ladyboy.... my imagination runs wild.

 

Plus Roger, I too would be happy to do a week (a lot would depend on how long this actually takes), and give honest feedback. I think many of my posts actually stick up for vendors (even though I am not a believer) and so would be happy to do it. (personally I would be surprised if its anything new, but happy to be proven wrong)

[Corey 10]

...

If allowed, I may consider offering any member of Traders Laboratory complete and unlimited access to my daily trading room with the understanding that no one will ever approach them at any time to try to sell them anything. ...

wait...Roger...wait lets talk about this! If you are just starting out this is not a bad offer.

[DionysusToast 10]

Roger - I understand that in your room you trade SIM.

 

So - when do you trade live? Is it outside of market hours or when the room is closed?

 

87% win rate and no more than 2% drawdown a day is impressive - that is acual trading results, right? Not the SIM stuff.

 

Thanks

 

DT

[SunTrader 10]

Roger left the building - when he could no longer come up with believable answers.

[Roger Felton 10]

wait...Roger...wait lets talk about this! If you are just starting out this is not a bad offer.

 

I'm deeply sorry Corey but I have decided to completely pull out of this entire forum altogether. I have offered to allow complete and unlimited access to the FT Trading Room and I have offered to teach and closely mentor any TL member for a period of one week. I can greatly improve nearly any trader's performance if given a fair shot. I would accept NO monetary payment from anyone here but only requested their honest assessment if anyone asked.

 

I had expected some TL members to take advantage of the offers in a win/win deal. But instead I was immediately attacked, insulted, lied about and slandered in a constant bombardment of vitreol. Read the threads for yourself.

 

I don't know anything about you Corey but, if you are like 99.9% of the traders I have experienced here at TL, I can't help you. I have no choice but to abandon all efforts to make friends and contribute to the forum and just move on.

 

If you have any question why I have chosen to do this, just watch the tone of the posts that will immediately follow this post. It never fails.

[MightyMouse 12]

I'm deeply sorry Corey but I have decided to completely pull out of this entire forum altogether. I have offered to allow complete and unlimited access to the FT Trading Room and I have offered to teach and closely mentor any TL member for a period of one week. I can greatly improve nearly any trader's performance if given a fair shot. I would accept NO monetary payment from anyone here but only requested their honest assessment if anyone asked.

 

I had expected some TL members to take advantage of the offers in a win/win deal. But instead I was immediately attacked, insulted, lied about and slandered in a constant bombardment of vitreol. Read the threads for yourself.

 

I don't know anything about you Corey but, if you are like 99.9% of the traders I have experienced here at TL, I can't help you. I have no choice but to abandon all efforts to make friends and contribute to the forum and just move on.

 

If you have any question why I have chosen to do this, just watch the tone of the posts that will immediately follow this post. It never fails.

 

What about the $ 1 million offer? I said I would take you up on it Should I sign into your site and ask you there in front of your "students"?

[Roger Felton 10]

What about the $ 1 million offer? I said I would take you up on it Should I sign into your site and ask you there in front of your "students"?

 

No problem, MM...we're on. Now the ball is in your court to show me this robot autotrader system that runs totally unattended, requires no periodic tweaking, and wins 87% of it's trades with no more than a 2% account drawdown. This holy grail system must have at least a 2 year performance history and have a guarantee of similiar performance going forward...as previously agreed.

 

I wlll also agree to allow you to double the purchase price of this autotrader system if you so choose because, at 1 mil, it's a steal.

 

I am so pleased that you have accepted. Please send me the appropriate documentation and guarantee and we can seal the deal. You're a peach!

[SunTrader 10]

I'll take the offer as well.

 

But first I need to see a letter of credit or some sort of bank guarantee that the wa ha ha ha $1 billion, err I mean $1 million dollars does actually exist.

 

And not in Harare, Zimbabwe please.

 

Hard to get flights there for my payout.

[MightyMouse 12]

No problem, MM...we're on. Now the ball is in your court to show me this robot autotrader system that runs totally unattended, requires no periodic tweaking, and wins 87% of it's trades with no more than a 2% account drawdown. This holy grail system must have at least a 2 year performance history and have a guarantee of similiar performance going forward...as previously agreed.

 

I wlll also agree to allow you to double the purchase price of this autotrader system if you so choose because, at 1 mil, it's a steal.

 

I am so pleased that you have accepted. Please send me the appropriate documentation and guarantee and we can seal the deal. You're a peach!

 

Let us get the money to an attorney in escrow first so that I know you actually have it and draw up the exact terms before I supply anything. I really do not want to waste my time if you do not have any money. My system will out perform your requirements as you have stated them so you should be excited to comply.

[SunTrader 10]

I was there 2 years ago.Not hard to get a flight,but it's a long one.

Just a stopover on the way to "beyond"?

 

[DionysusToast 10]

No problem, MM...we're on. Now the ball is in your court to show me this robot autotrader system that runs totally unattended, requires no periodic tweaking, and wins 87% of it's trades with no more than a 2% account drawdown. This holy grail system must have at least a 2 year performance history and have a guarantee of similiar performance going forward...as previously agreed.

 

I wlll also agree to allow you to double the purchase price of this autotrader system if you so choose because, at 1 mil, it's a steal.

 

I am so pleased that you have accepted. Please send me the appropriate documentation and guarantee and we can seal the deal. You're a peach!

 

Any chance you could show the evidence of your 87% and 2% drawdown too?

 

I mean - it's only fair before someone embarks on the task. I know your room trades are SIM, I'm sorta wondering when you actually get time to trade live nowadays.