Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

JackWell

Do You Put Stop Loss Order?

Recommended Posts

Totally agree that changing time frame might solve part of the problem, but not trained to take a trade on say the hourly and set the stop on the daily. Maybe should try.

Is there any difference between distribution line an resistance? Why do you use distribution and not accumulation?

BTW I recently viewed a webinar where they talked of "supply zones" and "demand zones", which to me equaled S/R zones, but they never outed the words S/R.

 

As for sufficient funds, we are assuming there are. Anyway if the likes of LTCM, Enron, Lehman, Madoff and PFGBEST could not have enough capital, will you and I ever have?

 

 

 

 

  steve46 said:
A final comment

 

I am just finishing a system that is aimed at retail traders who have been struggling along unsuccessfully....

 

it uses distribution lines as a frame work...so when price tests those lines, the trade is supposed to wait to see whether or not price is likely to fail or continue through in a sustained manner....

 

The system lends itself to several kinds of rules, but the one I like for amateurs is simple. You watch price test a distribution line. Price either "takes out" that line, in which case we wait for a retest (a retracement to that line followed by a failure), or price tests, takes out the line then reverses.....sometimes (of course) price goes into a horizontal range moving back and forth above and below that line....and the question (similar to Kuokam's point) is what do you do about that.....? and for me the answer is as simple as changing your time frame...for example if your data shows you that price tends to do this causing you to enter and get shaken out repeatedly....what about moving to the next longer time frame and applying the same entry rules.....many times this change alone will "fix" that problem...in other words its a system "design" problem...for my system...the issue you bring up shows itself on the 1 minute time frame, but not on the 3 or 10 minute time frame....so you adjust....you see what I mean...and of course this is just one of many issues that a trader faces...it could be (again just to provide one example) that even when you adjust your system as stated, it doesn't help...you then have to consider...do you really have an edge....do you have sufficient capital to trade at all?

 

If we go back to that same example....when price moves above and below a boundary, it is in effect displaying temporary supply and demand boundaries....what some call support and resistance...what about simply re-defining your system so that whenever you see this behavior you "define" the lower boundary of that congestion as support (an area where you might get long) and the upper boundary as resistance (an area where you might get short), then you look at your system and decide whether you can determine trend on the longer time frame...if you can you now have a viable system....one where you simpy wait for these congestions or sideways ranges to occur.....then you enter based on your new logic (trend determined by the next time frame)....

 

Finally, if one is having the problem Kuokam brings up....one way to minimize that problem is to use highly correllated market to help confirm entry decisions...in my system I use two markets (DAX and ES for example) because for me the DAX serves to confirm that my decsion is correct, or if the entry is not working, to provide sufficient data to motivate me to close the trade BEFORE I take a significant loss.....again it is a matter of intelligent design and ability to evaluate the data...

 

These are things that a skilled system developer considers...then they obtain the data and evaluate the possibilities...as with all things, some are good at it, some are not...and perhaps should consider opportunities in other areas of business..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  kuokam said:
Totally agree that changing time frame might solve part of the problem, but not trained to take a trade on say the hourly and set the stop on the daily. Maybe should try.

Is there any difference between distribution line an resistance? Why do you use distribution and not accumulation?

BTW I recently viewed a webinar where they talked of "supply zones" and "demand zones", which to me equaled S/R zones, but they never outed the words S/R.

 

As for sufficient funds, we are assuming there are. Anyway if the likes of LTCM, Enron, Lehman, Madoff and PFGBEST could not have enough capital, will you and I ever have?

 

 

Well, clearly I am biased however I think ALL of the things I mentioned should be seriously considered...

 

There are significant differences between my distribution lines and "classical" support/resistance....the simplest way to understand this is.....support & resistance lines are meant as "lines in the sand" creating (just what the label says) support against price moving south, or resistance against price moving north...classical S & R has no statistical basis.

 

My distribution lines have a statistical basis and are meant to contain price action within certain boundaries on any given day.....sorry but I am not willing to go into great detail regarding how they are created..

 

What matters to me, is not the definition but how they (either tool) can be used to create a profit....

 

Regarding "sufficient funds"...all systems have an expected drawdown...usually that expectation is unrealistic and will be exceeded at some point in the future....skilled participants can estimate what the proper level of required capital is, and they try to stay above it...part of that is the responsibility to manage leverage as well......some of the businesses that you mentioned had sufficient capital but took excessive risk in relation to the capital they had on hand....there is a balance there that you have to manage and if take on too much risk in relation to the capital you have on hand, and things go against you (the previously mentioned drawdown), odds are you (your trading business) will fail....

Edited by steve46

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  JackWell said:
Do you put stop loss order? I read in some places that it is not a god idea to set the stop loss in the system because the experts know where you set it and can "shake you out" of the positions. So do you use stop-loss?

 

it's necessary to use stop loss...i recommend to use stop loss and take profit and not touch them until operation will be closed automatically

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take profits? How about the forth commandment "let your profits run" ?

 

 

  frankfx said:
it's necessary to use stop loss...i recommend to use stop loss and take profit and not touch them until operation will be closed automatically

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  JackWell said:
Do you put stop loss order? I read in some places that it is not a god idea to set the stop loss in the system because the experts know where you set it and can "shake you out" of the positions. So do you use stop-loss?

 

I always use a stop loss because it mentally frees me up from worrying if I look away for a second or too. As you know, things can happen really fast. Remember the flash crash? Too many things can happen that are out of our control and can leave us lamenting. I feel that psychologically when you set a stop loss you are mentally ready to take that risk and now how much that risk will be.

Stop losses keep your trading in check because the probabilities are always limitless...

Great question!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I place stop loss in every order to reduce my risk. My question is who is the expert mentioned in the thread. Market will not move according to my sl position. So I prefer placing stop loss than having margin call or stop out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  jefftimothy said:
I place stop loss in every order to reduce my risk. My question is who is the expert mentioned in the thread. Market will not move according to my sl position. So I prefer placing stop loss than having margin call or stop out.

 

if you are having margin call, you should consider your position size...that does not sound safe...

you should always be able to run away to survive, to fight another day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop orders require caution . Unfortunately stop orders become stop profit orders. people dont use them when the market moves to the wrong direction as they believe the market will turn to their favor but they do use them when they are "making money" as they are afraid they might lose their profits .

 

My advise is use the stop loss order for the purpose it was ceated ie a stop loss and not a take profit order . Try figuring out the accepted loss the moment you make a trade (ie keep a mental stop loss or actually put it as when the market moves against you it moves too fast)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Trader1 said:
Stoplosses is the only control you have to limit your risk in the market, they are mandatory!
mitsubishi should know about this as he claims to have blown 6 accounts. even now he holds through drawdowns that could shrivel many trader's up like a prune. but since he likes to spread bet gambling must be in his blood.:haha:

 

he may take issue with the words "ONLY control" and mandatory..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Trader1 said:
Stoplosses is the only control you have to limit your risk in the market, they are mandatory!

 

And yet, speculators get paid to facilitate the transfer of risk. There is an inherent tension between the need to limit risk and the need to maximise profit. Are you CERTAIN that stop losses are the best way to resolve this tension?

 

BlueHorseshoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

plus throw in the concept of staggered time frames and even the market makers...and algo's wouldn't know where to gun the stops as they would be all over the place so thinking you could keep your stop out of their reach ..well...it wouldn't work....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 8th April 2025.   Markets Rebound Cautiously as US-China Tariff Tensions Deepen     Global markets staged a tentative recovery on Tuesday following a wave of volatility sparked by escalating trade tensions between the United States and China. The Asia-Pacific region showed signs of stability after a chaotic start to the week—though some pockets remained under pressure. Taiwan’s Taiex dropped 4.4%, dragged lower by losses in tech heavyweight TSMC. The world’s largest chipmaker fell another 4% on Tuesday and has now slumped 13.5% since April 2, when US President Donald Trump first unveiled what he called ‘Liberation Day’ tariffs.   However, broader sentiment across the region turned more positive, with several markets rebounding sharply after Monday’s dramatic sell-offs. Japan’s Nikkei 225 surged over 6% in early trading, rebounding from an 18-month low. South Korea’s Kospi rose marginally, and Australia’s ASX 200 gained 1.9%, driven by strength in mining stocks. Hong Kong’s Hang Seng rose 1.6%, though still far from recovering from Monday’s 13.2% crash—its worst day since the 1997 Asian financial crisis. China’s Shanghai Composite added 0.9%.   In Europe, DAX and FTSE 100 are up more than 1% in opening trade. EU Commission President von der Leyen repeated yesterday that the EU had offered reciprocal zero tariffs on manufactured goods previously and continues to stand by that offer. Others are also trying again to talk to Trump to get some sort of agreement that limits the impact.   Much of the rally appeared to be driven by dip-buying, as well as hopes that the intensifying trade war could still be defused through negotiations.   China Strikes Back: ‘We Will Fight to the End’   Tensions reached a boiling point after Trump threatened to impose an additional 50% tariff on all Chinese imports unless Beijing rolled back its retaliatory measures by April 8. ‘If China does not withdraw its 34% increase above their already long-term trading abuses by tomorrow... the United States will impose additional tariffs on China of 50%,’ Trump declared on social media.   If implemented, the new tariffs would bring total US duties on Chinese goods to a staggering 124%, factoring in the existing 20%, the 34% recently announced, and the proposed 50%.   In response, China’s Ministry of Commerce issued a stern warning, stating: ‘The US threat to escalate tariffs is a mistake on top of a mistake... If the US insists on its own way, China will fight to the end.’ The ministry also called for equal and respectful dialogue, though signs of compromise on either side remain scarce.   Beijing acted quickly to contain a market fallout. State funds intervened to support equities, and the People’s Bank of China set the yuan fixing at its weakest level since September 2023 to boost export competitiveness. Additionally, five-year interest rate swaps in China fell to their lowest levels since 2020, indicating potential for further monetary easing.   Trump Talks Tough on EU Too   Trump’s hardline approach extended beyond China. Speaking at a press conference, he rejected the European Union’s offer to eliminate tariffs on cars and industrial goods, accusing the bloc of ‘being very bad to us.’ He insisted that Europe would need to source its energy from the US, claiming the US could ‘knock off $350 billion in one week.’   The EU, meanwhile, backed away from a proposed 50% retaliatory tariff on American whiskey, opting instead for 25% duties on selected US goods in response to Trump’s steel and aluminium tariffs.     Volatile Wall Street Adds to the Drama   Wall Street experienced wild swings on Monday as investors processed the rapidly evolving trade conflict. The S&P 500 briefly fell 4.7% before rebounding 3.4%, nearly erasing its losses in what could have been its biggest one-day jump in years—if it had held. The Dow Jones Industrial Average sank by as much as 1,700 points early in the day but later climbed nearly 900 points before closing 349 points lower, down 0.9%. The Nasdaq ended up 0.1%.   The brief rally was fueled by a false rumour that Trump was considering a 90-day pause on tariffs—rumours that the White House quickly labelled ‘fake news.’ The market's sharp reaction underscored how desperate investors are for any sign that tensions might ease.   Oil Markets in Focus: Goldman Sachs Revises Forecasts   Crude prices also reflected the uncertainty, with US crude briefly dipping below $60 per barrel for the first time since 2021. As of early Tuesday, Brent crude was trading at $64.72, while WTI hovered around $61.26.   Goldman Sachs, in a note dated April 7, lowered its average price forecasts for Brent and WTI through 2025 and 2026, citing mounting recession risks and the potential for higher-than-expected supply from OPEC+.       Under a base-case scenario where the US avoids a recession and tariffs are reduced significantly before the April 9 implementation date, Goldman sees Brent at $62 per barrel and WTI at $58 by December 2025. These figures fall further to $55 and $51, respectively, by the end of 2026. This outlook also assumes moderate output increases from eight OPEC+ countries, with incremental boosts of 130,000–140,000 barrels per day in June and July.   However, should the US slip into a typical recession and OPEC production aligns with the bank’s baseline assumptions, Brent could retreat to $58 by the end of this year and to $50 by December 2026.   In a more bearish scenario involving a global GDP slowdown and no change to OPEC+ output levels, Brent prices might fall to $54 by year-end and $45 by late 2026. The most extreme projection—based on a simultaneous economic downturn and a full reversal of OPEC+ production cuts—would see Brent plunge to below $40 per barrel by the end of 2026.   Goldman noted that oil prices could outperform forecasts significantly if there was a dramatic shift in tariff policy and a surprise in global demand recovery.   Cautious Optimism, But Warnings Persist   With both Washington and Beijing showing no signs of backing down, markets are likely to remain volatile in the days ahead. Investors now turn their attention to upcoming trade meetings and policy decisions, hoping for clarity in what has become one of the most unpredictable trading environments in recent years.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.