Trading Schools

[Baker 10]

i was wondering if i could get some peoples opinions on trading schools and whether theyre necessary or not. are they worth attending or do they just feed you information that can easily be found online or through reading?

 

also, im sure this type of thread has been done before, but everytime i try to use the search button i get a "404 not found" message, so sorry in advance.

 

edit: swing trading schools in particular

[Tams 20]

i was wondering if i could get some peoples opinions on trading schools and whether theyre necessary or not. are they worth attending or do they just feed you information that can easily be found online or through reading?

 

also, im sure this type of thread has been done before, but everytime i try to use the search button i get a "404 not found" message, so sorry in advance.

 

edit: swing trading schools in particular

 

if there is a trading school that can teach you to trade to make money consistently,

nobody would be going to med school, law school, engineering school, etc.,

we would all be rich !!!

[Baker 10]

if there is a trading school that can teach you to trade to make money consistently,

nobody would be going to med school, law school, engineering school, etc.,

we would all be rich !!!

haha ive seen a couple posts on here recommending trading schools so i thought id bring it up. im kind of curious as to what type of information theyd offer.

[Tams 20]

haha ive seen a couple posts on here recommending trading schools so i thought id bring it up. im kind of curious as to what type of information theyd offer.

 

be careful with where the recommendations come from.

 

if the recommend person has low post count, you can forget it.

 

Usually they are scammers signing in as a happy students.

 

but there are suckers born every minute,

no matter how corny the sales pitch sounds,

people would rather buy a dream than to face the reality.

[Mysticforex 13]

About 3 months ago I received an unsolicited invitation to attend a live trading seminar.

The seminar was being presented by "Online Trading Academy". They advertise heavily on

Bloomberg radio.

 

I RSVPed that I would be attending. It was only about an hour drive away, who knows, maybe I could learn something. Truth be told I was bored and lonely. I can't remember the last time I actually saw a trader in the flesh. Oh, and did I mention they were offering a FREE LUNCH!

 

It was the usual stuff about picking tops and bottoms. Well after lunch, which was decent BTW, they got down to the nitty gritty. Selling the Courses.

$26K ! I almost fell out of my chair. They also had some loan officer there, if you wanted to finance the cost. Talk about slick.

 

I managed to slip out under the pretense of having to use the Lavatory.

[wrbtrader 10]

i was wondering if i could get some peoples opinions on trading schools and whether theyre necessary or not. are they worth attending or do they just feed you information that can easily be found online or through reading?

 

also, im sure this type of thread has been done before, but everytime i try to use the search button i get a "404 not found" message, so sorry in advance.

 

edit: swing trading schools in particular

 

Hi,

 

There are three types of trading schools and all three are very expensive.

 

Info below not posted in any particular order

 

1) Formal Education that's affiliated with a business, economics of finance degree. For example, some of the USA top universities offer "trading classes" at their school of business. Some have even gone as far to create top design trading rooms.

 

Forums - Public/Private Universities

 

Forums - Trading now taught in many Universities

 

Two of the countries top two schools said enrollment in these formal trading classes and trading rooms is up +48 percent since 2008 and has been climbing almost every year for the past 10 years or so. Most participate in some sort'uv yearly national trading competition just like some NCAA championship sport.

 

2) Informal Education associated with hiring a vendor/trader (someone that trades very little), trader/vendor (someone that vends very little) or just a vendor (someone that doesn't trade with real money but may trade on simulator only).

 

Books, seminars, mentors, mechanical codes/systems, automation codes/systems, discretionary strategies and so.

 

3) Informal Self-Taught associated with you being/becoming smart enough to learn from sitting in front of your monitors studying real-time price (primary) and hindsight price action (secondary) for thousands of hours. If you're one of the lucky few that survive your first three years of active trading...you may have a decent trading plan. In addition, you'll spend hundreds of hours reading freely posted trading information to determine if the message post will contain any information that may help your own trading performance.

 

I'm not going to get into the bashing arena about any of the above. Therefore, their worth is really dependent upon the individual trader that's done due diligence.

Edited March 26, 2012 by wrbtrader

[henryduncan12 10]

Trading School does not offer anything special that is not available. A trader can find each and everything about trading online. So, I am not in favor of Trading Schools.

[steve46 12]

Hello

 

WRB has presented a good summary of the current situation...

 

There are a couple of options, however the idea that everything a trader needs is available on the Internet (taken from the next post) is inccorrect (in my opinion)...

 

The issue of due diligence is critical to the trader's success...the problem in my view is the candidate's lack of experience and education.....simply put, most people who are trying to located qualified education are unable to recognize the difference between the "good" and "not so good" options....

 

I think the old fashioned method of auditing a class (if one is interested in formal education) or in the case of private schools or offerings (sitting in for a limited period of time at no charge, also called a "free trial") is probaby your best bet...

 

and of course I am assuming that one is actually interested in obtaining an education as opposed to simply sitting in a chat room and taking signals to buy and sell.

 

With regard to obtaining a high quality education....know that you cannot obtain that in a short period of time (like a weekend class for example)....therefore if an institution or private school offers such a "class", it may not fit your goals.

 

If instead you want to obtain entry to a chat room where the moderator simply tells you where he/she is buying and selling, then in my opinion, your odds of success are very low....in fact it is basically a "coin flip" .....I have not seen even one such chat room that offers a long term record of actual trades and profitabiilty....

 

At this point I think the best way for the prospective student to get where they are going is to try to obain some education on a piecemeal basis by looking to publicly offered resources sponsored by each of the exchanges...and as you gain knowledge and experience, continuing to evaluate both formal (institutiional) resources and privately offered education from individuals....

 

Good luck

Steve

[onesmith 10]

There might be a vendor that's on to something viable but they won't be aware of it and won't have the skills to take it that last bit that's required to make it viable. It's unlikely any vendor will ever achieve success as a trader. Too many differences reduce the likelyhood of that ever happening.

 

The odds of learning something viable increase if you limit your research to free sources. Eventually you have to uncover and teach yourself what works.

[Tams 20]

.

 

 

 

 

There is one thing that is for sure -- you cannot learn to trade on a weekend.

 

 

 

 

.

[karoshiman 10]

.

 

 

 

 

There is one thing that is for sure -- you cannot learn to trade on a weekend.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

Not even if it is a long weekend...??

 

:crap:

[elovemer 10]

i frequent some trade groups on skype.

apparently a lot of them are students from OTA.

 

i was shocked when i learned how much they pay for the classes.

it is plain as day on the OTA website.

 

i don't think any of them are making any money judging by the inane chatter that goes on.

they definitely don't post any trades.

 

but let's face it, if someone tells you that you can make a shilling after forking over a measly 26k$ it is definitely worth it .... until you realize that you can't and won't make a shilling

 

if i tell you that the sky is green if you fork over some bucks, wouldn't you pay to see that ?

finding out it really blue is kind of a let down, but then everything is worth something...... even if it is quite temporary.

 

About 3 months ago I received an unsolicited invitation to attend a live trading seminar.

The seminar was being presented by "Online Trading Academy". They advertise heavily on

Bloomberg radio.

.

[steve46 12]

I want to comment on OTA in particular

 

although I do not know the individuals, what I have been led to understand is that the concept is essentially a franchise....that is to say that each location is owned by a franchisee, a person who pays a fee and in return gets to operate an office in a geographic location, and the parent company then advertises and (if I am correct) furnishes staff (trainers, educators, call them what you will) who conduct the core courses.

 

I am not saying that this is good or bad...no judgement involved. I am not sure that my description is entirely correct however, I do think that this concept is no better or worse than any of the others that I have seen in the past (Pristine, and others)....

 

If I am correct, there is no "screening process"....meaning that if you have the money to pay for the courses, they are going to take your money and if you fail....so be it..

 

This is very different from the way that formal institutions work.....in THAT setting, a candidate is screened and has to qualify to be a student.....by virtue of past performance or by passing a screening exam and sometimes a face to face interview as well....While people may not like that process, it does provide some quality control and weeds out those who are obviously unqualified or who may need to obtain more background education before going into the profession...

 

If memory serves in the Bay Area (San Francisco CA area) a gentleman named Hank Pruden at the Ageno School of Business (Golden Gate University) also offers courses in trading....I am afraid I don't know much more about it, but it may be worth investigating...

 

As before I would suggest prospective students spend time doing a thorough due diligence process before getting involved...

 

Good luck

Steve

[gosu 10]

My personal experience with OTA: I was required to take a week-long "training" course prior to trading my own money at Momentum Securities with whom they shared office space in Irvine and the same owner. This was before broadband became widely available to residential areas. The minimum to open an account was $50,000. I thought the course was unnecessary and just a way to make more fees off the traders. Actually their policy required an "intro" class before the week-long class but I balked at paying for both courses and was allowed to skip the intro course after breezing through its final exam on the spot to their amazement. Prior to applying to trade there I had obtained and studied all their Level 2 material which wasn't that much at the time.

 

Eventually broadband became available in my area and it was pure heaven to trade from home without having to commute to the trading office. Initially I subscribed to their "virtual" trading room which gave me some connection to other traders but the constant chatter was too distracting. After the tech crash, the trading office disappeared and OTA moved to a smaller office nearby. For years I received calls to attend events at their new location until I disconnected my landline and changed my phone number. I did visit one evening to check out their new digs and they were just starting to sell DVDs and opening up new branches. I did wonder if their business model of selling "trading education" without a trading arm could be viable. Obviously, the answer is yes, to the tune of $26,000 per person, as given in a previous post. On another site, someone posted that there are some who spend $60,000 with OTA. It seems the "trading education" industry is very large indeed. I have a feeling that if PT Barnum were still alive he would give up the circus and become a trading vendor.

[Tams 20]

About 3 months ago I received an unsolicited invitation to attend a live trading seminar.

The seminar was being presented by "Online Trading Academy". They advertise heavily on

Bloomberg radio.

 

I RSVPed that I would be attending. It was only about an hour drive away, who knows, maybe I could learn something. Truth be told I was bored and lonely. I can't remember the last time I actually saw a trader in the flesh. Oh, and did I mention they were offering a FREE LUNCH!

 

It was the usual stuff about picking tops and bottoms. Well after lunch, which was decent BTW, they got down to the nitty gritty. Selling the Courses.

$26K ! I almost fell out of my chair. They also had some loan officer there, if you wanted to finance the cost. Talk about slick.

 

I managed to slip out under the pretense of having to use the Lavatory.

 

Well, everything is relative.

 

IF the course can get you on the way to make consistent profits, say US$50K+ per year,

then $26k tuition fee is peanuts; you can recoup your investment within the first year.

 

I would gladly pay $50k to learn the ability to make $50k a year.

After all, a bachelors degree will cost 3 times that much.

[gosu 10]

Well, everything is relative.

 

IF the course can get you on the way to make consistent profits, say US$50K+ per year,

then $26k tuition fee is peanuts; you can recoup your investment within the first year.

 

I would gladly pay $50k to learn the ability to make $50k a year.

After all, a bachelors degree will cost 3 times that much.

 

Sounds like something straight out of their sales manual.

 

In theory, what you say makes sense. But back to reality.

 

What is the cost of learning things wrong from the beginning? At the least, probably a heck of a lot more than the $26,000 forked over for "education." At the most, the permanent loss of the opportunity to learn correctly because of a wrecked mind.

[Tams 20]

Sounds like something straight out of their sales manual.

 

In theory, what you say makes sense. But back to reality.

 

What is the cost of learning things wrong from the beginning? At the least, probably a heck of a lot more than the $26,000 forked over for "education." At the most, the permanent loss of the opportunity to learn correctly because of a wrecked mind.

 

that's exactly it...

 

the reality is... if the "education" does not produce consistent income stream,

the course is worthless.

[MightyMouse 12]

A better trading school is to get a pole, a bucket, and some worms and learn to fish. Try to survive with what you catch.

 

When you fish, if you intend to catch more than a buzz you generally go out with the intentions of catching a particular type of fish. Which means you need the right size hooks, the right bait, you have to go to the right water (fresh water or salt, high or low tide, shallow or deep water, etc), go at night or during the day, etc.

 

To catch a lot of fish, you'll need a lot of bait. If you do not learn how to properly fish, you'll waste a lot of bait. Other fish will prey on your bait and leave your hook bare. Generally it occurs unbeknownst to you; in which case, if the target fish does come buy, you are bait-less and will not catch anything. Your bait relative to your target fish should be inexpensive. You could actually go to the fish market and purchase a few pounds of tuna to use as bait, but what would be the point of fishing for bass with tuna? You may as well eat the tuna.

 

You learn that a good fisherman will more often than not catch more fish than a bad fisherman, but a bad fisherman can certainly get lucky and catch more fish or a bigger fish than a good fisherman (trust me on this). You learn that you cannot easily catch, say, a striped bass with a snapper hook and you won't likely catch a striped bass using a minnow as bait. You'll also learn that if you fail to catch a fish and use a lot of bait, that the type of fish you were trying to catch was simply not there. Should you try to catch a different type of fish, or should you move to a different fishing spot or should you go home for the day?

 

I do not fish that often, but I do not ever recall seeing a fear stricken fisherman who is afraid to cast a line because of the number of times his bait was stolen from him and now spends his time sim fishing until he figures it out.

 

I think you can learn a lot more from the fishing experience than you will with most trading schools. The best way to learn how to fish or trade is to do it along side someone who knows how to do it or simply do it on your own.

 

MM

[SIUYA 11]

I do not fish that often, but I do not ever recall seeing a fear stricken fisherman who is afraid to cast a line because of the number of times his bait was stolen from him and now spends his time sim fishing until he figures it out.

 

LOL...sim fishing

what about those people who create virtual worlds in cyberspace like second life. Greedy bastards, one life is not enough for them !

[Tams 20]

LOL...sim fishing

what about those people who create virtual worlds in cyberspace like second life. Greedy bastards, one life is not enough for them !

 

[Tams 20]

or maybe this:

 

[alwaysastudent 10]

I'm one of those low count posters you were warned about

 

IMHO trading school is no different from hiring a personal trainer to show me how to lift weights safely, a speech coach for public speaking, a driving instructor etc etc.

 

Can I learn all those thru books, online and just-do-it ? Sure, no doubt. Personally I find having someone there who has done it show me far more helpful then trying to decode yet another book.

 

You know your learning style, if the shoe fits go for it. Just do your due diligence.

[karoshiman 10]

 

... someone there who has done it ...

 

 

It is exactly about this.

[roztom 10]

If someone asked me how much I spent to learn to trade it would have to be several 6 figures... Now I have over 30yrs of this so it just keeps on going... Not necessarily paying someone else but in overall costs, offices, CQG, Satellite Data when I was out in LA before internet, etc... on and on and on... Software, Hardware, Overhead, Research, Opportunity Loss, etc.

 

Fortunately for me with all the time and cost it is still my full-time income and I am and will always be dissatisfied with my performance..

 

I cannot imagine how an individual can mimic someone elses plan/process... I have met and had to opportunity to know some very successful traders during my career... We cannot clone each other - no matter how much we have in common...

 

Can a school help? I think it can shorten the learning curve. The problem of course is can what you learn be converted into any yield at all? Is the school worth the powder it would take to blow it up?

 

I wish I had the answer... that is why system trading is so popular...plug & play... after education and failure/frustration that is where many go... :helloooo:

[Baker 10]

what steps did you all take before you actually started trading? so far ive just been reading (a lot), hanging around freestockcharts.com and watching some videos. if you were to make a list, what should one learn about before he actually starts trading? like 1)technical analysis 2) indicators 3) brokerages, etc etc.

 

edit: i worded that pretty sloppily haha so just to clarify things, if one were to systematically learn the basics of trading and build a base for their knowledge, what would they have to learn?