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roztom

Unconscious Vs Conscious Competence

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This whole discussion reminds me of my beginnings in this business. Well at the beginning it was no real business... I trade full-time and intraday now only for about a year. But I do have experience in swing trading since the mid-nineties. The reason I have so much trust in my intuition is that I started my swing trading at that time on no particular system... I took trades based on my gut feeling only! I had just some moving averages on my charts and watched price action (something I would not recommend to do... unless you have enough money to lose ;) ). When prices "felt" high I went short and when they "felt" low I went long... :doh: lol

 

But I've lost a tremendous amount of money until I've developed that intuition. I.e. you don't need the 10,000 hours of practice if you lose a lot of money as your brain makes you learn faster... so that you get not broke... :o

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Isn't that dependent on what each individual trader has on its screen and is used to look at for 10,000 hours? Otherwise you could not have developed such intuition in the first place.

 

QUOTE]

 

The unconscious side, I suspect is responding to what is not on the screen, other than possibly price, or speed of a rejection or a one-tick of a low, or a fast Algo pop or stop raid..the stuff you recognize which might create opportunity but does not necessarily fit into a structured set up...but that is also random...

 

I think one of the major items is detecting a trend change early enough to avoid taking the wrong side and also to try to get aligned with it as soon as possible... We all see this happening in the short timeframe but it all happens from the bottom up and not the top down timeframe-wise..so can the "unconscious competent" take action off the shorter timeframe to either avoid a loss or capitalize on an opportunity before the "conscious competent" recognizes it?

 

BTW: I am taking Excedin now - I'm getting brain damage here myself.. :crap:

 

I truly appreciate everyones input. This is not the lightest topic we typically discuss..

Edited by roztom

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BTW: I am taking Excedin now - I'm getting brain damage here myself.. :crap:

 

I truly appreciate everyones input. This is not the lightest topic we typically discuss..

 

Tom - I'm sorry to say this, but I had a stroke after reading the first page of this thread...Excedrin is not going to help me. If someone could call the paramedics, I'd appreciate it... :)

 

All this talk of intuition, ego, conscious/subconscious competence/incompetence, etc. is making me thirsty...so I think I'll go have a few beers and see if I can get my consciousness to be one with my subconsciousness, in order to get a better idea of what's going on with the markets...hopefully, it doesn't take me to all the way to unconsciousness... :)

 

CYP

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Tom - I'm sorry to say this, but I had a stroke after reading the first page of this thread...Excedrin is not going to help me. If someone could call the paramedics, I'd appreciate it... :)

 

All this talk of intuition, ego, conscious/subconscious competence/incompetence, etc. is making me thirsty...so I think I'll go have a few beers and see if I can get my consciousness to be one with my subconsciousness, in order to get a better idea of what's going on with the markets...hopefully, it doesn't take me to all the way to unconsciousness... :)

 

CYP

 

:haha: I'll join you...

 

This is an interesting topic IMHO.. (not the beers) :angry:

 

I think some of the great traders, just like great athletes, have integrated these competencies...

 

In my case I do like structure, it lays off the decision-making, at least to a point, to a replicable process.

 

I hope we will get some more insights here on this.. it is not a light topic but then neither is high-yield trading...

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:haha: I'll join you...

 

This is an interesting topic IMHO.. (not the beers) :angry:

 

I think some of the great traders, just like great athletes, have integrated these competencies...

 

In my case I do like structure, it lays off the decision-making, at least to a point, to a replicable process.

 

I hope we will get some more insights here on this.. it is not a light topic but then neither is high-yield trading...

 

When you have a few beers, you'll definite get more intuitive.

 

How many times have you taken a trade based on intuition that worked?

How many times have you taken a trade based on intuition that did not work?

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When you have a few beers, you'll definite get more intuitive.

 

How many times have you taken a trade based on intuition that worked?

How many times have you taken a trade based on intuition that did not work?

 

I can't answer that.. I personally have no quantifiable data...

 

I'm really trying to get a feel on how others have integrated it or deal with the potential conflicts that those 2 parts of the mind create... also if that "unconscious competence" is an asset to be harvested or an obstacle that creates conflict...

 

I hope we might hear some more about this..appreciate your participation...

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I can't answer that.. I personally have no quantifiable data...

 

I'm really trying to get a feel on how others have integrated it or deal with the potential conflicts that those 2 parts of the mind create... also if that "unconscious competence" is an asset to be harvested or an obstacle that creates conflict...

 

I hope we might hear some more about this..appreciate your participation...

 

if you have no quantifiable data, then why would you think that you might want to harvest it?

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I think the idea of conscious and subconscious understanding of the market is a very useful one potentially. I like karoshiman's idea about taking trades with his gut too. Sometimes those can pay big. Just like how we try to allign ourselves with the market ebb and flow, alligning our conscious and subconscious at the same time is when things really can start to click.

 

A simple suggestion maybe Tom is to consciously take account of this subconscious feeling when you are considering a trade. Just like price action around your entry, it could be used as a variable to decide whether or not to take the trade at all. You could even say, size your position differently based on this feeling. In thiss case it might have been that you note the feeling consciously then maybe trade half of your standard clip. Just an idea.

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I had seen this article before and it is sort of topical here.

 

Chances Are - NYTimes.com

 

There are a lot of similar articles and tests around that have shown that our intuition and feelings around anything to do with probability are generally quite poor, even when we are a supposed expert.

 

So even if your intuition is telling you something, unless the accuracy of your intuition is properly historically measured then you might still be kidding yourself relying on it.

So unless the facts bear out that you should trust your intuition and change/modify your plan then you should ignore the intuition - or at least adopt a way to incorporate it w=so that at least it does no harm.

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if you have no quantifiable data, then why would you think that you might want to harvest it?

 

I think top performers in any highly competitive endeavor have this skill integrated and they perform at a higher level because of it...

 

My interest in the topic from my perspective is that I recognize this element in myself but most of the time my need for discipline discounts it.. often I have glimpses of "brillance" but I have trained myself not to be influenced by this "unconscious competence" for the sake of consistency - (tough enough on its own).

 

I think we all have this skill to one extent or the other (as someone referenced earlier like riding a bike), assuming, we are past the rookie phase and have enough time under our belts to recognize the repetitive market behavior that is nuance driven and cannot be put in a black & white structured context.

 

I am going to try to let more of this in to my trading on a "conscious level" if I can.. though it is somewhat in conflict with my discipline or at least try to note what flashes in my mind - if I can.

 

I am very interested if others have looked at this area of their trading.. and either managed any conflict it might create, just ignore it or more importantly integrated it and use it to perfom at higher levels and yield. If so, can we learn to capitalize on it - and what steps did they use to accomplish it?

 

If you think about Floor Traders - they operate often at this level. I see what they do as more of a "contact sport" then us... We typically have more time to react..We can plan our trades. They are order flow/news driven and we are more price driven. They just "go" - that requires "unconscious competence" since they are "in the moment." :2c:

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Hi Tom,

 

As you mentioned top performing athletes it came to my mind that I've read already a good book on this subject:

 

Finding Your Zone: Ten Core Lessons for Achieving Peak Performance in Sports and Life by Michael Lardon

 

I think 'Being in the Zone' describes this state of mind you are referring to pretty well.

 

The guy is a sport psychologist who has trained many well known athletes (with a strong focus on golf). Anyway, the methods are applicable to any endeavor in your life but you have to be open-minded to make use of it.

 

I haven't tested all of the ten lessons for a longer period of time, to be honest, but some of them. All in all it gives you a better understanding of how you function in stressful situations (a golf tournament with $$$ on the line is also pretty stressful if this is your only income) and how to perform better in these.

 

k

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The sports analogy is always interesting. There are a lot of similarities to trading in some respects

It is often forgotten however that many of these top sports people have the advantages of full time coaches, statistical measures of their past and competitors performances, and a raw natural talent to begin with.

 

A friend of mine was great mates with a top professional golfer who often said his intuition (and maybe this was not the right word, but the point is the same) caused him problems. He used to often "go for shots" when his ability said that they were of low probability to work....fantastic if they did, you looked like a legend. He struggled when he played like this, but the thing was, once he stopped this, stuck to what he did well, and knew he did well, he went back to making money on the tour.

 

While often its the size of our account (risk of ruin) more than the raw talent that is the difference between using the intuition or not, often we have to play within our limitations of comfortable risk.....????

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Greetings: Thanks for visiting this thread.

 

I hope you will share some of what you have learned about yourself and how you deal with the 2 sides of your trading mind.

 

This actually relates to the conflict between the intuitive self and our pragmatic self the real world educated self (life, school, socialization, family, etc..) and the trading self..

 

I am not a psycologist but an experienced discretionary trader..

 

I have experienced something over and over and I am wondering if this happens to you and if so what have you done as a solution.

 

Here's what happens to me: I look at a market or whatever, my mind pops with what I see, it is a confluence of charts, technicals, over 30yrs experience, screen time and last nights pasta..

 

I sense what is likely to happen and where I should take a trade and/or exit.... Quite often I am right on the button..

 

HOWEVER, when things get going my logical non-intuitive self can take over, move a stop, dump a good position. I become UNCONSCIOUS of what I had thought before..like it never happened... I can become myopic at times..this costs me...

 

I write down what I intuitively see but often it is in front of me and I no longer see it... My conscious brain has overridden the intuitive..

 

Somehow they need to co-exist but they often don't...

 

Any of you have this conflict and if so how have you successfully or unsuccessfully tried to manage it..?

 

Thanks for your time and consideration..this might require some "thought." :confused:

 

roztom, just some thoughts for you... and also approaching the limits of language comm btw

 

Have you questioned your use of the word “conflict”?. There is no conflict betwn them. "conflict " is never an issue. Separation and loss of unity is the issue.

All the experience of “conflict” occurs only in the "conscious brain" side as a result of the rending /separation

 

Conscious competence comes from working to be focused progressively through the key aspects of a repetitive task on as many of your attempts at the activity as is possible. Selective practice, etc...

UnConscious competence naturally and automatically develops as neurology grooves what to do. … btw As outcomes of activites become less and less ‘newtonian’ (like driving) and more uncertain / randomlike (like trading), it is increasingly difficult for uncon competence to emerge and be sustained because the ‘prediction and control’ links btwn perceptions and instrumental acts are not as solidly reliable… but

 

Applying any willpower to the process of developing unconscious competence will actually impede it.

Any judging will maintain the separation and divide and destroy the natural trust / union btwn them… and …Behind judging is the mistaken assumption that the whole is here to serve the "conscious brain" side. Judging is the apparently ‘easy’ way that leads to depletion ('gut' connections become tenuous and unreliable, etc… ultimately adrenal fatigue, etc. ) instead of the much preferred ‘flow’ / being pretty much on a roll all the time…( something most people / traders don’t even believe is possible, btw)

 

The whole does not exist to support the conscious mind. The whole is there to support the whole. The best role the conscious part can assume is to 1) nonjudgmentally and as accurately as possible ‘re-create’ its representation of reality for the whole to utilize in its 'work' and 2) to simply focus on what needs to be focused on in the moment. The whole is more than adequately intelligent and can handle the ‘choices’ too. The whole system / the uncon is already ‘unconsciously competent’ at handling most every activity. It can handle more – much more. The trouble begins and continues when the conscious / ego attempts to appropriate roles it was never ‘created’ to do…

 

One possible path - develop "conscious competence" in real time mindful awareness practice of simply being aware of when and how you are ‘judging’ . Example: note the difference between your thinking and inner content when you are just observing reality as best you can - and then when you are critically noting what you did wrong (as traders are likely to do on losing trades or as an acct bal drops, etc.)… Example: note when you are in effect ‘choosing what is chosen’ instead of attempting to control ...

What are your alternatives to 'judging'?

How deeply habitual is it ? ie

How unconsciously competent are you at it?

hth

 

 

.

 

 

 

barely, really really barely, related… but interesting… ;)

How to Think Like a Mad Man, Find your Edge & Risk Little for Lots - Gresham's Law

Edited by zdo

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The whole does not exist to support the conscious mind. The whole is there to support the whole. The best role the conscious part can assume is to 1) nonjudgmentally and as accurately as possible ‘re-create’ its representation of reality for the whole to utilize in its 'work' and 2) to simply focus on what needs to be focused on in the moment. The whole is more than adequately intelligent and can handle the ‘choices’ too. The whole system / the uncon is already ‘unconsciously competent’ at handling most every activity. It can handle more – much more. The trouble begins and continues when the conscious / ego attempts to appropriate roles it was never ‘created’ to do…

 

.

 

barely, really really barely, related… but interesting… ;)

How to Think Like a Mad Man, Find your Edge & Risk Little for Lots - Gresham's Law

 

Thanks for the post. Can you comment on what is the basis for this...

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Unconscious competence is a term that is more appropriately applied to something like driving, music, or sports. It really does not have a place in trading since trading progress and excellence is very difficult to measure and it is unclear that it can be measured at all.

 

What a lot of us do is assign our winning trades that were done spontaneously, to some stroke of intuitive brilliance, and our spontaneous mistakes to something else.

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Can you comment on what is the basis for this...

 

:confused:

not exactly sure what you mean by "basis"

… it was just some thoughts… not the fkn be all to end all answer ;)

if I'm paraphrasing someone can't reference it at the moment...

… anyways, further reading would most likely be a misstep… a hindrance…

 

:haha: maybe I was just looking at the venerable, trusted, old, reliable authority -

the tao jones average ???

 

all the best

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Unconscious competence is a term that is more appropriately applied to something like driving, music, or sports. It really does not have a place in trading since trading progress and excellence is very difficult to measure and it is unclear that it can be measured at all.

 

What a lot of us do is assign our winning trades that were done spontaneously, to some stroke of intuitive brilliance, and our spontaneous mistakes to something else.

 

No disagreement, This is comment is also a general response in addition to MM..

 

A fighter pilot must juggle an infinite number of variables which are not repetitive..Trading also has variables that are unique to the situation.. however, both skills have repetitive responses with variable inputs...

 

Can the "unconscious competent/intuitive" side process these variables and come to a rapid conclusion - in the moment and take action vs a conscious process that most likely takes longer.. ?

 

In the case of an athlete, fighter pilot or trader, I suspect if the intuitive process could be actually developed to a higher level of function it would give the trader a signifigent advantage over other competitors just like it does for other high competence activities...

 

I believe those with time and success under their belts, to varying degrees possess this.. Question is: Can it be recognized? Can it be developed and harnessed? Can it be quantified?

 

Think about when you are long and you see price moving up and get banged at a high... you might not necessarily wait for an indicator to cross - maybe you do if that is your plan..but if you see the force of the rejection..if you just hit the exit button.. it is reflexive - a response to experience, intuition, unconscious competence... (hopefully).

 

How often do you just click the button without all the squiggles to support it? How often do you put a position on without "confirmation"?

 

Isn't that part of the "unconscious competence/intuition" at work.. ?

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:confused:

not exactly sure what you mean by "basis"

… it was just some thoughts… not the fkn be all to end all answer ;)

if I'm paraphrasing someone can't reference it at the moment...

… anyways, further reading would most likely be a misstep… a hindrance…

 

:haha: maybe I was just looking at the venerable, trusted, old, reliable authority -

the tao jones average ???

 

all the best

 

I found your previous response most interesting. The point I was making about the "unconscious competence" was how to get it to not be in conflict with the "conscious competence" - the need to follow structure or decision making matrix.

 

The "unconscious competent" sees it all in the collective moment while the "conscious competent" may operate a slower/lower level decision making process..

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A fighter pilot must juggle an infinite number of variables which are not repetitive..Trading also has variables that are unique to the situation.. however, both skills have repetitive responses with variable inputs...

 

i guess a fighter pilot in the heat of a battle is more akin to a trader, whereas a sportsperson has rules that apply to the game.

However, if you are taking the idea or experience and muscle memory to another level then maybe its as simple as a survivorship bias - those that survive seem to survive because of some innate ability whereas others dont. Some are lucky for a time, others are not.

 

Remember in the back of the market wizards book there was a trader who did not want to be named as some decisions where made using zen mastery or such (cant remember the details).

Given a lot of things can be tested historically then to a certain extent we should not be worried and just go on testing, however if being discretionary then already you are applying some sort of muscle memory already. If there are more concerns about the "conflict" then I still think that it becomes an attempt to try and extract too much from a situation.

 

If in your example you bang something out at a high, then it can certainly be quantified, and either as a back tested result, OR if you really wish to see if your trading can be improved, forward testing live time by recording thoughts and actions. There is not much more than that....its a measure of measurement, otherwise you are really just being even more subjective by saying it just works....in which case all the squiggly lines are never needed....however, and here is the next question that relates to this..... how then do you measure what is skill, technique or just dumb luck. ie; where is the "alpha" - are you better investing in the market and doing something else.??? A whole other kettle of fish, and a question I raised in another thread about outperforming over the long run.

At a guess (and this is a big guess) - is that you can get value out of avoiding marginal trades or not being too greedy when exiting prior to a trigger - ie saving a 5 points when you might have only captured an extra 1 - but thats about it....and even then this should be able to be measured, if you can be bothered.

 

Hindsight gives a wonderful theoretical set of rules, history measures the effectiveness of those rules.

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i guess a fighter pilot in the heat of a battle is more akin to a trader, whereas a sportsperson has rules that apply to the game.

However, if you are taking the idea or experience and muscle memory to another level then maybe its as simple as a survivorship bias - those that survive seem to survive because of some innate ability whereas others dont. Some are lucky for a time, others are not.

 

 

Given a lot of things can be tested historically then to a certain extent we should not be worried and just go on testing, however if being discretionary then already you are applying some sort of muscle memory already. If there are more concerns about the "conflict" then I still think that it becomes an attempt to try and extract too much from a situation.

 

At a guess (and this is a big guess) - is that you can get value out of avoiding marginal trades or not being too greedy when exiting prior to a trigger - ie saving a 5 points when you might have only captured an extra 1 - but thats about it....and even then this should be able to be measured, if you can be bothered.

 

Hindsight gives a wonderful theoretical set of rules, history measures the effectiveness of those rules.

 

I guess the point here is there is tremendous power in intuitive side of our brains.. Great traders, athletes, fighter pilots, etc - require high level performance in highly stressful, in-the-moment scenarios.

 

Trading often is an in-the-moment process.. with extreme volatility and 2 opposing forces either fighting it out or everybody running to one side of the boat or the other...

 

I know we have our levels, etc that we all watch.. most of us probably, subject to timeframe, are acting off of the same stuff. Indicators, if leaned on, are probably based on the same price based methodology..it is very redundent, IMHO...

 

The variable in this are not the technical tools but the mental process to align whichever tools to the mental state of the individual trader and also the ability to recognize opportunity when it presents itself... In trading, true opportunity doesn't wait too long... that is where the unconscious competence aligns with the conscious... I suspect.

 

Purley mechanical, non-descretionary, rule-based system traders have removed not only descretion but the need for "unconscious competence." Yet, I do not know of ANY system that can outperform a "successful" descretionary trader.

 

Now descretionary does not mean operating without rules or process but the variable of descretion might mean bending the rules or adjusting based on how the market behaves, etc. (all subject to timeframe, etc)

 

Siuya, one of the things you repeat often is to avoid marginal trades.

 

Does your conscious or unconscious competence help you discern the difference? Is it rule based or if you are on a move and it has already moved a high percentage of a daily range is that what you base it on...or is it subtle, rotations, Delta, Retracements, etc, etc... Depending on how you quantify it..it can be either rule based - "Conscious Competence" or subjective - "Unconscious Competence." How do you handle it? Tx

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Siuya, one of the things you repeat often is to avoid marginal trades.

 

Does your conscious or unconscious competence help you discern the difference? Is it rule based or if you are on a move and it has already moved a high percentage of a daily range is that what you base it on...or is it subtle, rotations, Delta, Retracements, etc, etc... Depending on how you quantify it..it can be either rule based - "Conscious Competence" or subjective - "Unconscious Competence." How do you handle it? Tx

 

I would say its the conscious brain that helps discern the difference.

These are trades whereby you can actually look at a chart and say - the trend is down, I should short, BUT its very close to support, its actually just retraced 50-61% of the last move up, its what appears to my eye an abc pattern - so the best thing to do is to wait until a rally to short it rather than shorting it now on momentum.

 

A lot will depend on the instrument and the context of course. eg; are we in 2008 or not, is this a mean reverting instrument like a currency that in % terms does not move that much over the course of a year, unlike an individual stock.

Point is for me - a marginal trade is one that could probably be entered at a more favorable level that just doing it now.

How I handle it is by asking myself simple questions like - "do I need to be in the trade, is there a better opportunity to enter, where will I make the proper money over the course of the week and not immediately" (does not always work and I understand the issues you are talking about)

 

Whereas a friend who has made serious amounts of money trading is ridiculously good at it. When the markets suit him he will switch on, when they dont he switches off....maybe for weeks, months at a time. I cant do that, he can and he is very good at it. In his mind he waits for the right type of market, is prepared to use a lot of leverage and then he becomes completely focused. For him, marginal trades are those whereby the market does not suit him. He handles it by not being focused all the time, whereas his unconscious mind seems to know when to step up - again he is not always right but when he is its scary - when next I see him I will ask him.

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Interesting thought but a little far from the mark, Roztom,

this more basic psych, than actual,

 

the extremely bad habit of second guessing yourself & thereby turning a good trade to bad, relates more to personal self confidence than anything else

ie: you knew the position was good when you placed it........then self doubt kicks in :doh:

 

Fairly common mistake I usually tell noobs to try a little hypnotherapy, Paul Mckenna is a good example.....

 

But then I've only been trading 25 years & have psychology as a major so what would I know :missy:

 

I'm sure some armchair trader with weeks of experience will always know better :2c:

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Be the enemy to yourself very stupid idea. All of the parts of your mind works together to better result. Fight against your fear? Hey guys, may be you will listen why this fear is here and what do you afraid of? Afraid to loose money? Maybe you are afraid that you are not ready? I think it is 90 % of fear than peoples do not ready and habe no knowledges enough to trade. So they began to fear and than began to fught with fear and than they right so stupid articles and sentneces

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I find that many traders have an intuitive element in their trading mind, but they don't know how to integrate the hunches into their decision making. In this left brain world we certainly are not taught. To the intuitive trader, this element of the mind, I call Creator. You learn to open yourself to the hunches and welcome their appearance -- and they are checked out by the clear thinking (hopefully) of your impartiality. I find this works well when developed. It's simply an attunement that is sharpened by a trained mind.

 

Rande Howell

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... The point I was making about the "unconscious competence" was how to get it to not be in conflict with the "conscious competence" - the need to follow structure or decision making matrix.

 

..

 

Did you ever consider that if your "unconscious competence" >|: is making ‘uninvited’ attempts to ‘contribute’ that the tasks you’ve set for your "conscious competent" 'side' may be in slight overload or too repetitive ?

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    • Date: 8th April 2025.   Markets Rebound Cautiously as US-China Tariff Tensions Deepen     Global markets staged a tentative recovery on Tuesday following a wave of volatility sparked by escalating trade tensions between the United States and China. The Asia-Pacific region showed signs of stability after a chaotic start to the week—though some pockets remained under pressure. Taiwan’s Taiex dropped 4.4%, dragged lower by losses in tech heavyweight TSMC. The world’s largest chipmaker fell another 4% on Tuesday and has now slumped 13.5% since April 2, when US President Donald Trump first unveiled what he called ‘Liberation Day’ tariffs.   However, broader sentiment across the region turned more positive, with several markets rebounding sharply after Monday’s dramatic sell-offs. Japan’s Nikkei 225 surged over 6% in early trading, rebounding from an 18-month low. South Korea’s Kospi rose marginally, and Australia’s ASX 200 gained 1.9%, driven by strength in mining stocks. Hong Kong’s Hang Seng rose 1.6%, though still far from recovering from Monday’s 13.2% crash—its worst day since the 1997 Asian financial crisis. China’s Shanghai Composite added 0.9%.   In Europe, DAX and FTSE 100 are up more than 1% in opening trade. EU Commission President von der Leyen repeated yesterday that the EU had offered reciprocal zero tariffs on manufactured goods previously and continues to stand by that offer. Others are also trying again to talk to Trump to get some sort of agreement that limits the impact.   Much of the rally appeared to be driven by dip-buying, as well as hopes that the intensifying trade war could still be defused through negotiations.   China Strikes Back: ‘We Will Fight to the End’   Tensions reached a boiling point after Trump threatened to impose an additional 50% tariff on all Chinese imports unless Beijing rolled back its retaliatory measures by April 8. ‘If China does not withdraw its 34% increase above their already long-term trading abuses by tomorrow... the United States will impose additional tariffs on China of 50%,’ Trump declared on social media.   If implemented, the new tariffs would bring total US duties on Chinese goods to a staggering 124%, factoring in the existing 20%, the 34% recently announced, and the proposed 50%.   In response, China’s Ministry of Commerce issued a stern warning, stating: ‘The US threat to escalate tariffs is a mistake on top of a mistake... If the US insists on its own way, China will fight to the end.’ The ministry also called for equal and respectful dialogue, though signs of compromise on either side remain scarce.   Beijing acted quickly to contain a market fallout. State funds intervened to support equities, and the People’s Bank of China set the yuan fixing at its weakest level since September 2023 to boost export competitiveness. Additionally, five-year interest rate swaps in China fell to their lowest levels since 2020, indicating potential for further monetary easing.   Trump Talks Tough on EU Too   Trump’s hardline approach extended beyond China. Speaking at a press conference, he rejected the European Union’s offer to eliminate tariffs on cars and industrial goods, accusing the bloc of ‘being very bad to us.’ He insisted that Europe would need to source its energy from the US, claiming the US could ‘knock off $350 billion in one week.’   The EU, meanwhile, backed away from a proposed 50% retaliatory tariff on American whiskey, opting instead for 25% duties on selected US goods in response to Trump’s steel and aluminium tariffs.     Volatile Wall Street Adds to the Drama   Wall Street experienced wild swings on Monday as investors processed the rapidly evolving trade conflict. The S&P 500 briefly fell 4.7% before rebounding 3.4%, nearly erasing its losses in what could have been its biggest one-day jump in years—if it had held. The Dow Jones Industrial Average sank by as much as 1,700 points early in the day but later climbed nearly 900 points before closing 349 points lower, down 0.9%. The Nasdaq ended up 0.1%.   The brief rally was fueled by a false rumour that Trump was considering a 90-day pause on tariffs—rumours that the White House quickly labelled ‘fake news.’ The market's sharp reaction underscored how desperate investors are for any sign that tensions might ease.   Oil Markets in Focus: Goldman Sachs Revises Forecasts   Crude prices also reflected the uncertainty, with US crude briefly dipping below $60 per barrel for the first time since 2021. As of early Tuesday, Brent crude was trading at $64.72, while WTI hovered around $61.26.   Goldman Sachs, in a note dated April 7, lowered its average price forecasts for Brent and WTI through 2025 and 2026, citing mounting recession risks and the potential for higher-than-expected supply from OPEC+.       Under a base-case scenario where the US avoids a recession and tariffs are reduced significantly before the April 9 implementation date, Goldman sees Brent at $62 per barrel and WTI at $58 by December 2025. These figures fall further to $55 and $51, respectively, by the end of 2026. This outlook also assumes moderate output increases from eight OPEC+ countries, with incremental boosts of 130,000–140,000 barrels per day in June and July.   However, should the US slip into a typical recession and OPEC production aligns with the bank’s baseline assumptions, Brent could retreat to $58 by the end of this year and to $50 by December 2026.   In a more bearish scenario involving a global GDP slowdown and no change to OPEC+ output levels, Brent prices might fall to $54 by year-end and $45 by late 2026. The most extreme projection—based on a simultaneous economic downturn and a full reversal of OPEC+ production cuts—would see Brent plunge to below $40 per barrel by the end of 2026.   Goldman noted that oil prices could outperform forecasts significantly if there was a dramatic shift in tariff policy and a surprise in global demand recovery.   Cautious Optimism, But Warnings Persist   With both Washington and Beijing showing no signs of backing down, markets are likely to remain volatile in the days ahead. Investors now turn their attention to upcoming trade meetings and policy decisions, hoping for clarity in what has become one of the most unpredictable trading environments in recent years.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
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