Buy My Trading Strategy - It's Brilliant!!

[joshdance 10]

How do you know so many people are "Grail Seekers", and not all people who are actually looking to learn how to trade?

 

I have already gotten several PMs today. I replied that the course is not for sale.

 

I have no objective evidence, so I will simply say that I believe this is so based on anecdotal observation. One such observation is that you have received so many PMs already on this just in the last few hours. Do these people not already have many, many sources of information, of reference, to study, and learn from? There are several internet forums with thousands of articles, posts, and wisdom to draw from; some of it is crap, some of it is golden, but there's a lot of information out there to draw from.

 

So, why would several people PM you, offering to buy something, with such widespread information available? Simple: they don't want to sort through the crap, they don't want to spend their Sunday afternoon testing or studying or reading, trying to determine the wheat from the chaff. They would rather pay you a large sum of money, sight unseen, for an untested, unverified system, than to turn on their brains and learn to study themselves. They want one person (you) to show them "the way," which is in reality "your way," rather than developing their own way.

 

One final observation is that if one wants to learn how to trade, then they should realize that it can only be done by doing, not by buying. One can learn about markets and concepts and ideas, but one has to have his butt in the chair, eyes on the screen, and money in the game, to actually learn how to trade.

[Tams 20]

I never got to the point of having having prospective students. Although, I do believe asking for proof the system is viable is not a bad thing. It's part of due diligence. That's why I initially set up a page on the collective. If you don't know, its a third party that evaluates system performance. What I would do, is place trades there, instead of at my broker. It records the order in real time, but under simulation (my broker does not accept their signals) and logs the entry and exits. Although this is technically a "Sim trade" it's done in real time, so people can see how the system performs. It also helped me track my performance because it gives me all the stats.

 

You never answered my question. How do you knwo there are all those scammers out there? Have you made an intensive study of all of these systems to determine if they are fraudulent or not? Or are you just making wild, baseless claims?

 

Which system, do you have personal first hand knowledge of, that are scamms?

 

I sure know collective. It is a scammers' haven. There a couple of vendors here trying to sell a system based on Audited Simulation Trading results from C2. LOL

 

 

But, a sucker is born every minute. Unfortunately that's how this world works.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Tams

[Lornz 10]

How do you know this? How many courses have you studied? Or are you just making blanket statements because everyone else makes the same ones.

 

It becomes very easy to see who's full of shit after one's traded for a few years. After a decade in this game, it is second nature.

 

Some are very good at pretending, but small inconsistencies come to the surface soon enough.

[Tams 20]

...

 

You never answered my question. How do you knwo there are all those scammers out there? Have you made an intensive study of all of these systems to determine if they are fraudulent or not? Or are you just making wild, baseless claims?

 

Which system, do you have personal first hand knowledge of, that are scamms?

 

 

 

You are trying to pull a Passive-Aggressive Maneuver.

 

 

I am happy today... another scammer exposed.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

I have no objective evidence, so I will simply say that I believe this is so based on anecdotal observation. One such observation is that you have received so many PMs already on this just in the last few hours. Do these people not already have many, many sources of information, of reference, to study, and learn from? There are several internet forums with thousands of articles, posts, and wisdom to draw from; some of it is crap, some of it is golden, but there's a lot of information out there to draw from.

 

So, why would several people PM you, offering to buy something, with such widespread information available? Simple: they don't want to sort through the crap, they don't want to spend their Sunday afternoon testing or studying or reading, trying to determine the wheat from the chaff. They would rather pay you a large sum of money, sight unseen, for an untested, unverified system, than to turn on their brains and learn to study themselves. They want one person (you) to show them "the way," which is in reality "your way," rather than developing their own way.

 

One final observation is that if one wants to learn how to trade, then they should realize that it can only be done by doing, not by buying. One can learn about markets and concepts and ideas, but one has to have his butt in the chair, eyes on the screen, and money in the game, to actually learn how to trade.

 

Dear lord, I am never gonna get this drywall done!!

 

 

Well, this starts getting into the realm of teaching and how people learn. When you are of age, your parents send you to school, where you are taught to read and write in a Progressive, systematic way so you, step by step, master the skills of reading, writing, history and whatever in the most efficient manor. now, if you were to just tell a kid "look, you are 5 now. Here is the internet, learn your K-8"....he's gonna fail.

 

Most people go to SCHOOL to be taught competent mastery in their field of study because the teacher lays it all out in a step, by step manner. This is how humans learn the most material, in the shortest amount of time.

 

You can spend 15 years reinventing the wheel, or you can learn for a teacher. since trading is not somehting taught in schools, and the only real avenue to learn is through self study courses, you are kind of limited in your options.

 

By trying to just randomly figure it out on your own, you will never get anywhere.

 

A good metaphor would be a kid who is being bullied in school. try as he might, on his own, his bully beats him up every day. he may go to the library and take out self defense boo, or read UFC magazines. he may spend hours, and hours online scouring all the random stuff on youtube, but he will never beat his bully.

 

However, if he finds a teacher, who can lay out the progression correctly, from the first step, all the way to free fighting, he will eventually beat his bully.

 

Now fighting is a physical skill, and to really progress you need live coaching. Trading isn't that intimate. If you can get a self study course that is layed out in the right order, you will progress in weeks, what would otherwise take you years of random online obsessing.

 

THAT is what people are looking for. I am certain, if they had trading courses in schools, like community colleges, people would go there first. However, they don't, so they seek the only real option short of passing the exam and going to work as a broker (Even then, there are no classes for it, you have to buy an online course)

[SpearPointTrader 10]

You are trying to pull a Passive-Aggressive Maneuver.

 

 

I am happy today... another scammer exposed.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

So, I can see your purpose here is to mindlessly trash people, for no reason, based on nothing but your own fantasies. That my friend is slander.

 

The truth is, you have not surveyed the myriad of courses out there. You have no idea if any of them are scams or not. You don't even know the actual content of them at all. Youa re just guessing, because you have absolutely no first hand knowledge of ANY of the courses you disparage.

 

You are now attempting to expose me as a scammer, when I nixed the whole project and it never even went into production, let alone hit the market.

 

In addition, since it never hit the market, you have not been able to review the course, so you have no idea if it's a scam or not.

 

Since the course is not for sale, likely never will be, you are just calling slanderous names for no other reason than it makes YOU feel important to belittle others.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

You are trying to pull a Passive-Aggressive Maneuver.

 

 

I am happy today... another scammer exposed.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

One more thing, asking you to state which courses you have personally examined, to determine if they are scams or not is not passive aggressive. It's a direct blunt challenge to your expertise on the subject.

 

Your attempt to spin the subject on me instead of answer is a clear indication that you have No knowledge of which you speak, and have absolutely NO experience on the subject you are inferring such profound expertise in.

 

You opinion is unqualified in any manner. You have done nothing, or shown nothing to justify it. Which means your motivation for doing so is purely psychological. You remind me of weak people who have to put others down to make themselves feel important.

[Lornz 10]

Dear lord, I am never gonna get this drywall done!!

 

You can spend 15 years reinventing the wheel, or you can learn for a teacher. since trading is not somehting taught in schools, and the only real avenue to learn is through self study courses, you are kind of limited in your options.

 

By trying to just randomly figure it out on your own, you will never get anywhere.

 

THAT is what people are looking for. I am certain, if they had trading courses in schools, like community colleges, people would go there first. However, they don't, so they seek the only real option short of passing the exam and going to work as a broker (Even then, there are no classes for it, you have to buy an online course)

 

First of all, it's very possible to figure it out on one's own. It's only random if one discards one's power to reason. You get an idea, you research it (possibly you need to find relevant literature for further edification) --- rinse & repeat.

 

Secondly, they do teach trading at several universities. More and more have mock trading floors, complete with Bloomberg terminals and other resources.

 

One can also take statistics courses at most colleges, and a lot offer courses on time series analysis (e.g.).

 

It's possible to go through the various exams offered by FINRA, or the CFA. For a quantitative approach, one has the option of doing the CQF.

 

Most retail traders equate trading to technical analysis, though. But, they even have a "school" for that: The Market Technicians Association's CMT program.

 

Most exchanges offer training courses on all kinds of approaches. I started my education by taking a course on derivatives at my local stock exchange.

 

I would say there is an abundance of education, but most people, in an incredibly naive manner, are looking for shortcuts...

 

"I just want to make a hundred dollars a day...."

[SpearPointTrader 10]

First of all, it's very possible to figure it out on one's own. It's only random if one discards one's power to reason. You get an idea, you research it (possibly you need to find relevant literature for further edification) --- rinse & repeat.

 

Secondly, they do teach trading at several universities. More and more have mock trading floors, complete with Bloomberg terminals and other resources.

 

One can also take statistics courses at most colleges, and a lot offer courses on time series analysis (e.g.).

 

It's possible to go through the various exams offered by FINRA, or the CFA. For a quantitative approach, one has the option of doing the CQF.

 

Most retail traders equate trading to technical analysis, though. But, they even have a "school" for that: The Market Technicians Association's CMT program.

 

Most exchanges offer training courses on all kinds of approaches. I started my education by taking a course on derivatives at my local stock exchange.

 

I would say there is an abundance of education, but most people, in an incredibly naive manner, are looking for shortcuts...

 

"I just want to make a hundred dollars a day...."

 

FINRA does not teach one how to trade. They only hold the exam. You have to buy an outside course to even pass that. Actually, FINRA does not even host the exam. They just document the payment and the results. They sublet the exam out to some other outfit.

 

Ok, you got me on the course thing. I have to admit taking the ones at the MERC back in the day myself. However, I have never seen a course on trading at any of the colleges near me (I looked for them in the late 90's, maybe it's different now). A Statistics class will not help learning to trade.

 

I did not know about there being mock trading floors at some universities. They did not have those in my day.

 

The bulk of my post was that structured education is vastly superior than trying to figure it out on your own and reinventing the wheel.

 

I can right now go to a dozen sources that have free introductory information to get you started. However, I have been at this a long time. A beginner is not going to know what to even look for, let alone what to do with that info.

 

I have a friend of mine who struggled for years tying to figure out how to trade the forex on his own. he kept insisting everything he needs to know is available for free, online. All he had to do is google for it.

 

Well, he kept losing, or breaking even. It was killing me watching him blow up over and over again. eventually, he softened and started asking me advise. he lives in Florida, so I coached him over the phone and emailed him examples of stuff. Once he had some direction, from an experienced trader, it turned his game around. He's fairly successful today.

 

I have seen time, and time again that just randomly tying to figure stuff out is frustrating, costly and just plain inefficient compared to having a step by step curriculum to follow.

[Lornz 10]

Well, there are a lot of difference ways of trading, thus I will refrain from making blanket statements.

 

However, if one is trading based on price action alone, which many are, one does not need anything else than price(s) and a brain suited for that approach.

 

I don't trade that way anymore, but I did for several years. I've tried to teach others, but it seems that one either "gets it" or not.

 

It's not a human right to be a successful trader and most will fail.

[Lornz 10]

I just want to add that trading is a hard endeavor and very few will want to share their intimate knowledge with others. However, those who in fact does, rarely have anything worth sharing in the first place.

 

By the way, what makes you think that your way of trading is the correct approach? I don't mean to sound offensive, but you don't strike me as highly successful. Are you making 7 figures (at least) a year?

 

If not, how will you ever succeed at reaching financial independence, which I assume is the goal for all aspiring traders.

[Tams 20]

One more thing, asking you to state which courses you have personally examined, to determine if they are scams or not is not passive aggressive. It's a direct blunt challenge to your expertise on the subject.

 

Your attempt to spin the subject on me instead of answer is a clear indication that you have No knowledge of which you speak, and have absolutely NO experience on the subject you are inferring such profound expertise in.

 

You opinion is unqualified in any manner. You have done nothing, or shown nothing to justify it. Which means your motivation for doing so is purely psychological. You remind me of weak people who have to put others down to make themselves feel important.

 

 

I have no duty to answer your side track question. The table is on you. Your asked the question, why don't you answer it?

 

Why don't YOU tell us which course is legit (ie not scam) and consistently profitable?

 

 

 

I know for sure there is ONE course that is not legit, and that is yours.

 

 

 

.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Tams

[SpearPointTrader 10]

I just want to add that trading is a hard endeavor and very few will want to share their intimate knowledge with others. However, those who in fact does, rarely have anything worth sharing in the first place.

 

By the way, what makes you think that your way of trading is the correct approach? I don't mean to sound offensive, but you don't strike me as highly successful. Are you making 7 figures (at least) a year?

 

If not, how will you ever succeed at reaching financial independence, which I assume is the goal for all aspiring traders.

 

Well, it's not a matter of it being the one and only 'Correct Approach' The method wins more then it loses and constantly grows the account due to having smaller losses, than wins.

 

The way I look at this, is that the markets have a large number of reoccuring conditions that we see over, and over again. Each has various ways to identify them early. The real key is to find what those ways are, and master them.

 

For example, there is the condition of being over bought, or over sold. It's one market condition. However, there are a bunch of indicators that can be used to track them, and even more strategies that can be used to capitalize on them. ALL of them are right, so long as the make you money. Mine is not the only way.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

I have no duty to answer your side track question. The table is on you. Your asked the question, why don't you answer it?

 

Why don't YOU tell me which course is legit (ie not scam) and consistently profitable?

 

 

 

I know for sure there is ONE course that is a scam, and that is yours.

 

 

 

.

 

It's not a side track question at all. You are making yourself out to be some sort of blanket expert on course scamms. I have asked you repeatedly to qualify your ascertations...which you can't do, because you don't have any actual expertise. You are just making it all up to sound important.

 

A good example is how you vacillated from telling me I had good intentions, to now definitively claiming my course is a scam. However, you have no way to know this, since YOU NEVER TOOK THE COURSE! How could you, it never sold a single copy.

 

Which brings me to the question, "how can *I* be a scammer, for NOT selling something good?"

 

Oddly, in a paradoxical way, this makes you the scammer, because you are trying to fake everyone out that you have some sort of knowledge on this subject, when you really have not got a clue. Which I think is pretty funny. :rofl: :haha:

 

I have very little respect for your type.

[Lornz 10]

Well, it's not a matter of it being the one and only 'Correct Approach' The method wins more then it loses and constantly grows the account due to having smaller losses, than wins.

 

The way I look at this, is that the markets have a large number of reoccuring conditions that we see over, and over again. Each has various ways to identify them early. The real key is to find what those ways are, and master them.

 

For example, there is the condition of being over bought, or over sold. It's one market condition. However, there are a bunch of indicators that can be used to track them, and even more strategies that can be used to capitalize on them. ALL of them are right, so long as the make you money. Mine is not the only way.

 

I agree! Whatever makes you money is the way to go. The problem is to find something that makes money over time. I find it funny that banks and funds have focus on rapid deployment, because the inefficiencies they are trying to exploit only lasts for days, weeks or months, but in the retail world everyone speaks of finding a system that has worked since the beginning of time.

 

Small traders have certain advantages though, so it is possible to find a niche and do quite well. Although I have a certain framework in place, my approach is highly dynamic and ever-changing. And it is precisely that intuitive nimbleness that is virtually impossible to teach, which is why one has to learn by doing -- not buying courses on the internet.

[Tams 20]

...

I have very little respect for your type.

 

the feeling is mutual

[Tams 20]

...

A good example is how you vacillated from telling me I had good intentions, to now definitively claiming my course is a scam.....

 

 

 

I thought you had good intention, that was before I uncovered your hidden agenda.

Don't dwell on it, don't take it as a compliment.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

I agree! Whatever makes you money is the way to go. The problem is to find something that makes money over time. I find it funny that banks and funds have focus on rapid deployment, because the inefficiencies they are trying to exploit only lasts for days, weeks or months, but in the retail world everyone speaks of finding a system that has worked since the beginning of time.

 

Small traders have certain advantages though, so it is possible to find a niche and do quite well. Although I have a certain framework in place, my approach is highly dynamic and ever-changing. And it is precisely that intuitive nimbleness that is virtually impossible to teach, which is why one has to learn by doing -- not buying courses on the internet.

 

Well, just buying a course will not help. However studying the course, and mastering the skills is what makes the money.

 

You are right, trading is an ever changing environment. This is why I prefer indicators that are in constant flux. For example, I prefer to use the upper bollinger band to find resistance, than the last turning point. This is because it is vastly more accurate due to the fact that is is constantly adjusting with the current conditions.

 

I like a layerd approach as well. I use the old fashioned lines of support and resistance, trend lines and patterns of congestion to identify market that are ripe for a trade. However come entry time I am using fluid indicators like the Bollinger bands to actually place my trades.

 

I also believe in knowing as many good high percentage set ups as you can. I have 8 main ones I use over and over(the core of my system), but if I see one, I will trade the break out of a channel or a 3 bar inside outside day, (or a double inside day) in a heart beat, even though they are not technically part of my core method.

 

I also take into consideration bull and bear flags, and triangles and pennants. All these things are all parts of different methods i have studied over time. They all make an impact and help me choose what to do, and when.

Edited March 18, 2012 by SpearPointTrader

[SpearPointTrader 10]

I thought you had good intention, that was before I uncovered your hidden agenda.

Don't dwell on it, don't take it as a compliment.

 

You didn't discover anything. There is no hidden agenda, You made it up in your own little fantasy land.

[Tams 20]

Well, even if you are looking for a genuine educational course, you pretty much have to purchase a system. Either that or Pass the National futures exam (still have to buy a study course for that), and go get a job in a brokerage. Trying to find some elusive master, which is just not available outside certain rather tight circles is hardly practical for most.

 

I personally don't believe there are a huge amount of scammers selling courses. I think that is just erroneous "Common wisdom". I don't doubt there are course that are incomplete, either by design, or more likely lack of writing talent. But I don't personally think there are many scam artists.

 

As for my "Intentions being good" I only got THAT feed back when I decided not to sell the course. When I was doing the test marketing, I was just another scammer trying to "Rip people off". My actual intentions, and motivations never mattered. If I stated them, while selling the course, I was a liar. If I stated them AFTER I took it off the market, I am somehow magically genuine.

 

Then people wonder why I am jaded on the idea now....

 

How could you know?

Have you taken any good courses that can produce consistent profits? Which ones are they?

Have you taken any bad course?

What is the good course to bad course ratio?

[khamore1 10]

I really would appreciate it if the Negotiator, Tams and Jordash will write here their own Mia Culpa: same way as Roztom did

 

This will help me, I believe other traders too

 

Thank you

[SpearPointTrader 10]

How could you know?

Have you taken any good courses that can produce consistent profits? Which ones are they?

Have you taken any bad course?

What is the good course to bad course ratio?

 

You are the one on here bashing anyone and everyone without justification. That is why I questioned you. Since you can't answer a simple question, how do you have the balls to try and turn it over on to me?

 

Is this your way of trying to save the fact that you have been exposed?

[roztom 10]

. Trading isn't that intimate. If you can get a self study course that is layed out in the right order, you will progress in weeks, what would otherwise take you years of random online obsessing.

 

THAT is what people are looking for. I am certain, if they had trading courses in schools, like community colleges, people would go there first. However, they don't, so they seek the only real option short of passing the exam and going to work as a broker (Even then, there are no classes for it, you have to buy an online course)

 

I am not going to disrespect you since I cannot read too well between the lines...

 

However, some of the statements you are making border on the absurd.

 

I had to pinch myself and make sure I didn't wake up on Fantasy Island...

 

Best of Luck to You

[SpearPointTrader 10]

I am not going to disrespect you since I cannot read too well between the lines...

 

However, some of the statements you are making border on the absurd.

 

I had to pinch myself and make sure I didn't wake up on Fantasy Island...

 

Best of Luck to You

 

What is absurd about that?

[SIUYA 11]

I dont know about you guys but I still want the original system that was offered at the start of this thread !!

 

The unfortunately reality is.........

• if you have a fully automated robot/system that you know makes money all the time - you would be crazy to sell it, unless its to a hedge funds that would pay serious money because you cannot implement it yourself, or the returns are normal and you need cash (ie;10-20%pa would be generous).
   
  
• if you have a system/strategy that requires discretion, usually based on experience and time, it is very hard to teach to others.
  

 

For both - and assuming there is either skill/talent/experience involved then for most systems there will be large amounts of time, or instruments when they loose money.

So.....you will either be....

a) called a scammer (unfortunately even if the system works for you and brokerage statements can prove it - even these can be faked --- you know the old one --- account 1 goes long, the other goes short 2 - the winner is produced) , or

b).....are a scammer....as you know its unlikely to be as good as its promoted to be.

 

So as a risk reward trade.....it not a good one to market anything like that unless you expect this ----- its a trade off even if you are legit and it goes with the turf.....

 

Sales and marketing to a bunch of skeptical customers who have been burnt before......why wouldn't they be a harsh bunch of critics.....or an easy bunch of suckers. (you take the critics to get the suckers.....) Plus if you are good at it you are likely to make more money selling than trading with less stress ---- now thats a good trade.

Edited March 18, 2012 by SIUYA