Buy My Trading Strategy - It's Brilliant!!

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  bobcollett said:

  SpearPointTrader said:

Dear lord, I am never gonna get this drywall done!!

 

 

Hi Spear Point,

Why not take a nice little quarter page advert on this forum and get done with all this nonsense?

regards bobc

 

Take an add out for what?

[cdcaveman 10]

  SpearPointTrader said:

  bobcollett said:

 

Take an add out for what?

 

i think the inference is that you are a service provider.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  cdcaveman said:

  SpearPointTrader said:

 

i think the inference is that you are a service provider.

 

Do people not read? I killed the project like months ago. I provide no services to anyone. I have no plans to ever put the course on the market. It never even went into printing. I think I have made that perfectly clear, repeatedly, adnausium.

 

This forum is full of crazy people.

[karoshiman 10]

This is an excellent thread subject, TheNegotiator, and it's worthy of being read by every newbie (I am not one anymore, by the way)!

 

The posts by roztom are in particular valuable!

 

I am Trading full-time for a year now but did a lot of swing trading before since the mid nineties. I've lost a lot of money until I became profitable, read many books, did a lot of research, spent endless hours in front of the screen and even tried once a somewhat well-known educational service with focus on forex trading, which I stopped after only 3 months after I realized that these guys do not have much of a clue themselves.

 

Anyway, I think even such experiences with educational services are part of learning the game. I am sure I did learn "something" from them (and in fact, as I realized later on, I incorporated one aspect of their teachings in my trading but mixed it with something I've read somewhere else... however, this happened almost unconsciously). But all in all, I was critical about what they taught and after asking some specific questions at different learning sessions, I figured out that the overall information about the system that they taught did not add up. It just did not make any sense. That was the point when I stopped attending these classes. I would not call it a "scam", but what I call such service is anyway not relevant for my success as a trader. You've got to move on, if you want to get better at this. Even if you come to the conclusion that their way of trading is not the way to go, you've learned something (i.e. how NOT to do it).

 

I think Trading is more than anything else a Do-It-Yourself-Profession. You can not learn it from someone else, whether that individual or firm is successful at trading or not. roztom gave a good example with his friend.

 

The reason for this is that one's own psychology plays a too important role in this.

 

I've had a successful corporate career before doing this and was also somewhat successful as a competitive athlete on a national level in my country before that. However, Trading is the most difficult thing I've encountered so far and I think it is one of the most difficult endeavors one can pursue.

 

And you cannot compare it to going to school or university, like you did, SpearPointTrader. Or like learning Oracle, like rforexdad mentioned.

 

The markets and you yourself are far too complex for this!

 

However, I agree, that you should get every information possible to support your self-learning. But purchasing a black box system is definitely not the way to go.

 

I've got the most helpful infos from reading tons of books. But also here I've realized that there is no one book out there which has all the infos you need to trade successfully. You have to read many of them and put the pieces of the puzzle together by yourself.

 

The only way to learn it from someone else would be that this person takes the effort to point you in the right direction based on your individual psychology. This would be a very individual coaching or mentoring and surely difficult to find.

 

But no matter what your information source on trading is, you have to

 

- be critical about every piece of information you get, even if it is from a trustworthy source

- think for yourself and apply common sense

- develop your own approach to trading based on what fits best to your personality.

 

I am sure that this is the only way one can become a successful trader.

 

 

One more comment about forex, as the educational service I've attended was also very much focused on forex. The problem with forex is that it is marketed very aggressively to retail clients due to less regulation and attractive spreads for the brokers. However, this attracts also many people who try to take advantage from all the people who have no clue about trading and want to get started with forex as they saw this fancy ad somewhere. I would not call it a scam but these people see a business opportunity here and offer a service although they are not 100% suited to do so.

 

Hence, I would be VERY skeptical about any educational service or system which relies almost exclusively on forex. Why would one do that other than for marketing reasons? Of course, this alone is no proof that the service provided is a scam or the people offering it have no clue. However, one should be very cautious.

[onesmith 10]

I love not selling my course

but someday my course will be recognized as the holy grail

and I will be recognized for exceeding Jones's success

 

then I will feel free and be free

 

To think and speak ...

with passion ...

about things not as important

[MightyMouse 12]

  SpearPointTrader said:

  cdcaveman said:

 

Do people not read? I killed the project like months ago. I provide no services to anyone. I have no plans to ever put the course on the market. It never even went into printing. I think I have made that perfectly clear, repeatedly, adnausium.

 

This forum is full of crazy people.

 

Well, you did say you helped you friend out who was losing and in a very short while he was doing ok because he was able to get help from an experienced trader. That does sound magical to me. I think you did it over the internet too, not in person.

[TheNegotiator 13]

  Tams said:

you have hit it on the nail as well... there are people who genuinely have something to share... this thread is about the scammers, we are not talking about the good people you described. Some of my responses are specifically to those newbies who want to acquire the holy grail through purchasing a "system"... I believe your intentions are good.

 

This thread isn't about the scammers at all. It's about the personalities of people who are searching for an education and why they do it.

 

  TheNegotiator said:

This isn't a thread for vendor bashing at all, let me make that 100% clear. But it is one to try to gain a better understanding of the psychology behind the buyer in this part of the trading industry.

[TheNegotiator 13]

  SpearPointTrader said:

You know, one thing teaching martial arts has taught me is that any skill can be taught by breaking it down into a step, by step systematic teaching program designed to take the raw beginner from 'Know nothing' to proficient. My course was written form that experience. I designed it that way in large part because other courses I had gotten in the past were simply not structure the way people learn.

 

I actually took my martial arts curriculum,wrote it all out in one column, and on the other side of the page I wrote the corresponding trading skill for each level that I used to replace the martial arts skill. Like a martial arts program, there is an exam at the end of each level. one builds on the other, and you cannot progress to the next, unless you pass the test on the previous.

 

 

 

Maybe those are the smart one's who are willing to work hard and master what is essentially 2 year long course. You can't know without being personally involved in people's lives.

 

I have a 25 unit minimum at $80.00 a pop for the fulfillment company to produce them. So there is a fat chance someone could get this with a PM to me. I killed the project before the printing. There are only a handful of samples floating around. Those are in the hands of the guys who helped me write and produce it. No one is going to part with their copy.

 

I'll tell you what, I'm willing to bet that even the very best martial arts students would get their asses royally kicked if they were in a proper street fight. That's what markets are made up of. Seasoned, hardened and skilled street fighters. They will kick your ass even if you think you know "the book" off by heart and convince yourself you are good at it in a controlled environment.

 

You can't teach experience. You can teach things that might make people better placed to gain from their future experiences, but then they'd need some "capacity for experience" nevertheless. The problem is, all teachings generally focus on what the author 'does' instead of who they 'are'. If you can figure that one out then you stand a much better chance of gaining from the education they provide.

 

  SpearPointTrader said:

How do you know so many people are "Grail Seekers", and not all people who are actually looking to learn how to trade?

 

The thing is, how many people looking for "an education" get or even ask to see actual evidence of skill? Past performances or recognised third party qualifications might count here. But generally, it's all about the marketing and a feeling that people get about whether they are being told the truth or whether the educator is a good teacher/has good methods/might be suitable for that individual.

 

Perhaps it'd be better to have experienced profitable traders review these systems. The trouble is, why would they bother?(unless they get back handers then how are the results honest anyway?!)

[SIUYA 11]

One of the best setups/stratgies in the market.....

 

you can trade this, and take it too the bank.....lifetime guarantee to work.....

 

Get on an internet site and ask a question ( "similar" to the theme of this thread and probably one of the most f...d up lazy, stupid questions you often see) ......and the question is

 

Can someone show/give me a system that makes money?

 

you may as well paste a target on you back and say take my money.

 

The reason people ask that answers your psychological question

[karoshiman 10]

  TheNegotiator said:

This thread isn't about the scammers at all. It's about the personalities of people who are searching for an education and why they do it.

 

 

I guess it can have different reasons, which are not only psychological.

 

 

Non-psychological probably:

 

Too much information about trading making it difficult for the newbie to distinguish good from bad.

 

The problem is, that the ones who figure it out don't share the information in detail but apply it for themselves (which is perfectly fine as it was hard enough for them to gain this knowledge).

 

 

Psychological:

 

- Lack of motivation, or

 

if someone moves from one system or education provider to another one in an endless cycle

 

- Being a follower, not taking full responsibility for one's actions/one's life

[TheNegotiator 13]

  karoshiman said:

- Being a follower, not taking full responsibility for one's actions/one's life

 

This is a really important point. Far too many people are much more comfortable with other people making decisions for them, rather than being completely accountable for their own actions.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  MightyMouse said:

 

Well, you did say you helped you friend out who was losing and in a very short while he was doing ok because he was able to get help from an experienced trader. That does sound magical to me. I think you did it over the internet too, not in person.

 

That is hardly a service. It's two buddies talking trading. There is nothing magical about it. I taught him a bollinger band squeeze and how to trade break outs of it as well as some basic spear point entries and a few other little things.

 

I am sure it's all stuff the egotistical experts around here know intimately, and probably discount as "Amateurish"

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  TheNegotiator said:

This is a really important point. Far too many people are much more comfortable with other people making decisions for them, rather than being completely accountable for their own actions.

 

You cannot succeed in this business if you are a follower.

[Connect 10]

  SpearPointTrader said:

You cannot succeed in this business if you are a follower.

 

Hmm interesting statement, isn't learning from a Mentor 'following'?

[roztom 10]

SPear: I think one of the resons you have gotten some "heat" here is that right now you are interacting with some actually successful traders...

 

What you don't know is how qualified some might be to teach, which some are, how successful- which to varying degrees from a few lot trader to size, some are. Right here on this thread.

 

Let's assume for a moment some here are qualified to do it - yet as far as I know, they do not... Why?

 

I wonder how many would actually tutor a friend or relative.. Think about what that could mean...if they don't succeed they may hold you responsible..where is the upside in that?

 

How do you think it would feel sitting across the Thanksgiving table with your brother-in-law or father-in-law for the rest of your life or a true friend -whose relationship you valued -not an acquaintance who failed at trading after you "helped."

 

I look at this as a trade in some ways..my downside is signifigently higher than my upside since I know the probabilities of anyone succeeding in this business are substantially skewed to the downside ...industry ststistics - not mine plus 30+ years of observation.

 

Can I teach - yes. I really enjoy sharing my passion for trading. Nothing comes remotely close. Can I help someone trying to learn - probably. Would they succeed?

 

Should I monitize my experience, trading education and create a business to leverage my yield on my trading business? Not me..

 

What I do is give it away on this forum..Mostly it is not what I do right, which I do point out some trades, the thinking, structure, etc but I stress what I do wrong... I make mistakes everyday...that is where we must fight our own demons, ourselves..that is what I post... the good and the ugly... Once you get this business down, the challange is all mental...

 

You said you didn't sell your course...that is good..I'm still not sure what the point of your posts are...

 

We all want/need to grow.. community is a important part of it... if you have something to contribute here than why don't you show us how you can help.. I'm sure all of us and the newbies would appreciate it..

Edited March 19, 2012 by roztom

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  roztom said:

SPear: I think one of the resons you have gotten some "heat" here is that right now you are interacting with some actually successful traders...

 

What you don't know is how qualified some might be to teach, which some are, how successful- which to varying degrees from a few lot trader to size, some are. Right here on this thread.

 

Let's assume for a moment some here are qualified to do it - yet as far as I know, they do not... Why?

 

I wonder how many would actually tutor a friend or relative.. Think about what that could mean...if they don't succeed they may hold you responsible..where is the upside in that?

 

How do you think it would feel sitting across the Thanksgiving table with your brother-in-law or father-in-law for the rest of your life or a true friend -whose relationship you valued -not an acquaintance who failed at trading after you "helped."

 

I look at this as a trade in some ways..my downside is signifigently higher than my upside since I know the probabilities of anyone succeeding in this business are substantially skewed to the downside ...industry ststistics - not mine plus 30+ years of observation.

 

Can I teach - yes. I really enjoy sharing my passion for trading. Nothing comes remotely close. Can I help someone trying to learn - probably. Would they succeed?

 

Should I monitize my experience, trading education and create a business to leverage my yield on my trading business? Not me..

 

What I do is give it away on this forum..Mostly it is not what I do right, which I do point out some trades, the thinking, structure, etc but I stress what I do wrong... I make mistakes everyday...that is where we must fight our own demons, ourselves..that is what I post... the good and the ugly... Once you get this business down, the challange is all mental...

 

You said you didn't sell your course...that is good..I'm still not sure what the point of your posts are...

 

We all want/need to grow.. community is a important part of it... if you have something to contribute here than why don't you show us how you can help.. I'm sure all the newbies would appreciate it..

 

The point of my posts was that the over all theme of the thread was that only scammers sell their courses. *I* am not a scammer, and I very genuinely wrote down what I do in great detail. I never had any intention of scamming anyone. Yet somehow as soon as the idea to sell the course got around, I all of a sudden got turned into a slime ball.

 

since I am not a slimebal, or a scammer, and never intended to rip anyone off, my thought is that the perception is not only false, but likely propagated by people who have never even examined all these courses in the first place, and thus have no basis for condemning them. Tamms proved my point quite eloquently.

 

Now I am just sort of following the after party.

Edited March 19, 2012 by SpearPointTrader

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  Quote

We all want/need to grow.. community is a important part of it... if you have something to contribute here than why don't you show us how you can help.. I'm sure all of us and the newbies would appreciate it..

 

So, after the forum totally disparages me for all my hard work and genuine desire to share, now you want me to just give it away to you for free? Really?

 

Fat chance.

 

I'll stick to being open on the forum I have been posting on for 10 years. I dumped my whole system on them, over time, because they are respectful and appreciated my input. And quite frankly, those guys helped me immensely in the first place anyway.

[zdo 20]

  Quote

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

 

Theodore Roosevelt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... was notified that the two words "Theodore Roosevelt" is too short of a message. I guess the characters in qoutes aren't counted... Hence these filler characters... are there enough characters yet ??

 

Mods, feel free to edit out the line feeds

... and maybe change the rules about character counts.

What if someone wanted to just post the word "Yes" ???

[Connect 10]

  zdo said:

Theodore Roosevelt

 

who?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[karoshiman 10]

 

 

Is this supposed to be a follower seeing the next hot trading system out there?

[roztom 10]

  SpearPointTrader said:

So, after the forum totally disparages me for all my hard work and genuine desire to share, now you want me to just give it away to you for free? Really?

 

Fat chance.

 

I'll stick to being open on the forum I have been posting on for 10 years. I dumped my whole system on them, over time, because they are respectful and appreciated my input. And quite frankly, those guys helped me immensely in the first place anyway.

 

Well, I'm sure many of us will be dissappointed that we will be deprived of your expertise.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  roztom said:

Well, I'm sure many of us will be dissappointed that we will be deprived of your expertise.

 

I don't care

 

 

 

...................

[bobcollett 10]

  SpearPointTrader said:

I don't care

 

 

 

...................

 

Hi SpearPoint

Are you a boy or a girl?

regards

bobc

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  bobcollett said:

Hi SpearPoint

Are you a boy or a girl?

regards

bobc

 

I am male.

 

 

 

.................

[roztom 10]

I'd like to move on to the original premise of this Thread...

 

Why people will pay anyone, let alone the scammers to learn to trade..

 

I wonder how many have paid for someones DVD's, Books, Seminars, On line Chat rooms, etc, etc.

 

I'd be very suprised if we all didn't do some of it at various times... I certianly have and I came out of the industry and was exposed too some "brillant" traders..

 

The more I gathered the more deadends I encountered.. Some of those deadends took over a year to jetison... Elliot Wave comes to mind just for one... I have a list so long that when I go back to the beginning I ask myself what was I smoking??

 

I just was searching..and I would have paid anything to get the answers...WHY..I wanted to stop the pain, frustration and confusion.. I wanted to succeed.. I think it is human nature to want to get mentored..

 

Until you master this trading thing all you can do is relate it to your own life experiences which is centered on structured education...so we tend to follow that path..

 

Unfotunately unlike the "real" world, trading is not especially replicable. Some of the structural part is in many respects replicable...a chart is a chart, a pattern is a pattern - you can learn to recognize that at its most basic level etc. but it is the rest of it.. how and what to do with it - the alignment...the mental process to create a decision making path from whatever structure you recognize to take action... that is where it breaks down.

 

How aligned do you have to be to sit in a University class to pass the exam? Not even close to what trading is but how would you know?

 

And there are a never ending list of vendors good and bad waiting to help you fulfill your dreams.. what most vendors don't, won't or can't tell you is that it is all on your shoulders not theirs for you to succeed..

 

I have been fortunate to know successful traders in my career..when we talk shop we talk the same stuff.. "we know" but that is where it starts & stops..

 

I reference my 20 - 50 lot ES buddy. He thinks I'm nuts for trading my size and scaling them out instead of trading larger for shorter targets (he is a member/lower cost).

 

Who's right? We both are..

 

How does that relate to buying a course..the same issue how do you take it and play it like its your own? I don't think too many can.. but everyone thinks they'll be the one

Edited March 19, 2012 by roztom