Buy My Trading Strategy - It's Brilliant!!

[Tams 20]

  zax1150 said:

Unfortunately there is a wealth of misinformation in the market,

 

Tam I find following trending is the easy part, as its usually good for 200pips a day

 

however it does get uncomfortable @ 10 lots a pip :missy:

 

what is the difference between trading 1 lot and 10 lots? or 100 lots?

 

 

 

the only times it gets uncomfortable are when

 

1. deep inside you you know you are overtrading

 

2. deep inside you you are really not too sure about what you are doing

 

 

 

In both cases, you don't need a genius to tell you what not to do.

For one indisputable fact about life -- sooner then later, the market is going to catch up to you.

[zax1150 10]

  Tams said:

what is the difference between trading 1 lot and 10 lots? or 100 lots?

 

 

 

the only times it gets uncomfortable are when

 

1. deep inside you you know you are overtrading

 

2. deep inside you you are really not too sure about what you are doing

 

 

 

In both cases, you don't need a genius to tell you what not to do.

For one indisputable fact about life -- sooner then later, the market is going to catch up to you.

 

 

What is this amateur psychology pap, really? .......I have a friend that teaches Psych @ melb uni if you want to take it up with him

 

it make me personally uncomfortable @ £100 a pip because UK brokers have a habit of putting you on manual handling...if you trade like that for too long

& that can really damage your profitability (avg being 4-6weeks)

 

on your points, sorry to disappoint you, I do know what I'm doing & I haven't overtraded since 2003.......(& that was a busy day).:missy:

 

As for the market catching me really???....:rofl: your philosophy not mine

but then I've been trading for over 20years

 

This is not supposed to be a slagging match

after all I have fond memories of newtown :boxing:

 

I was just making the point there are a few good mentors out there & a plethora of scam artists

[roztom 10]

  khamore1 said:

It is scientifically proven statement: “anything that two people can do” (including trading) you can teach other people to do….

 

You may be correct on the teach.. the issue is on the "learn" and where the financial rubber meets the road - execute.. How many have gone to a workshop, seen some workable process and not have even the remote chance of executing?

 

Can you imagine what it would take to put a thorough list together of all the pieces you need to master to actually be able to have a viable trading business?

 

Even if you could quantify a list, where would you find the replicable detail so you could execute the pieces..?

 

Pick one of the most important topics, risk management, trade management.. How much time would you need to spend in that area before you knew what was real vs. fantasy and what you would need to do so you could consistently execute?

 

Multiply that by all the components to success... it is an exponential problem and it is further complicated by the nebulous aspects of psycoloogical alignment which you can only identify, IMHO by trial and error... The problem with the psycological part is that a process that is logical may completely clash with your emotional chemistry and you can spend a huge amount of time trying to fight through it until you learn that it is incompatible with you..then what?

 

Where do you take a course that not only teaches, theory and practical application but aligns with the individual psyche..that is why so much is not replicable and most newbies, if they even get that far have no clue what is undermining their potential success..

 

While concepts are easy - assuming they are on point, making them your own is another problem and there is no generic solution to execute...

[SpearPointTrader 10]

You know, I actually wrote an entire course on my system. I have 1000's of hours into writing it, editing it, post production, making the graphic examples happen, searching and interviewing fulfillment companies (it cost $80 to produce each until. best I could find). I even shot a little video and did an audio book.

 

After some sample marketing, I decided to pull the whole thing at the last second. Peoples attitude towards learning is plain foolish, and quite frankly if I had know selling my system would make me such a scum bag, I never would have wasted my time on it.

 

It's a great course. I started with basic understanding of the use of trend lines, support and resistance and how to calculate them in a variety of ways.

 

Then I move into identifying chart patterns and how to perform break out trades.

 

There is a chapter on all the indicators I use, another of Stop Loss placement, order types and their use.

 

That is followed by how I use my indicators in combination and the 8 unique setups that make up the core of my method.

 

There is a chapter on minor set ups I watch for and sometimes take when opportunity knocks.

 

I have an entire chapter on exits, when NOT to trade or take an otherwise good looking set up, how to identify when a good initial entry is turning bad so you get out early and what to look for so you can learn to time exits with the greatest profit from each swing.

 

The system is Fractal. I cover how to adjust it for day trading, swing trading or position trading.

 

 

I have a chapter on my view of trading psychology, paper trading (I recommend 12 to 18 months and not to enter in for real unless you are winning 60-80% of the time, and making more than you lose), and developing the experience you need to be successful when to comes time to trade for real.

 

I even have a section on stuff I used to use, but no longer in case anyone wants to experiment with things that work in different contexts.

 

Each chapter has a questions, answer, and exercise section at the end (answers in the back to check yourself)

 

For all this time writing, working and pouring my guts into the work, and FIFTEEN YEARS of figuring it all out, I thought asking just under $500.00 was more than fair. Just the chapter on knowing when NOT to trade could save anyone 10 times that.

 

It's a darn good thing I was *Personally* involved in the test marketing. Apparently the over all populace feels that I am a fraud, scammer, con artist or some other derogatory entity because I want to charge for my course, rather than give it all away for nothing.

 

I am only good if I become some indentured servant and give it all away for free. People expect me to slave away, at their beckon call and just give them what I fought long and hard for; or some how *I* am the bad guy (A common theme in our culture).

 

So, that being my experience, and not wanting to be 2 steps above pond scumm, I nixed the project. The world can go fight for every little scrap like I did, for all I care.

 

Writing my course did do me some good though. It forced my to examine what I do, step by step. It crystallized my system into a complete, comprehensive, clearly understood method, and made me a much better trader. That, and I have a great full sized personal desk reference in a large 3 ring binder, to get me back on track when I stray from the method (And I do sometimes...which always leads to strings of losses)

 

So, that is the perspective from the vendor's side.

Edited March 18, 2012 by SpearPointTrader

[Tams 20]

  SpearPointTrader said:

You know, I actually wrote an entire course on my system....

 

So, that is the perspective from the vendor's side.

 

You have described the prospective students I have outlined in my post #6.

 

 

 

 

 

If I were you, I would market the course at no less than $25,000. Those who cannot afford it would never bother you.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  Tams said:

You have described the prospective students I have outlined in my post #6.

 

 

 

 

 

If I were you, I would market the course at no less than $25,000. Those who cannot afford it would never bother you.

 

No thanks. I can just make that trading...with Zero extra effort. I don't see myself ever selling the course ever at this point.

 

If anything, I think my post explains "Why" most people don't sell their system. My guess is the guys that do, were not involved in the market research, and test marketing. They are probably blissfully unaware how negatively the general population views them. It's kind of sad really.

 

Having wrote a course myself, I suspect most of them that are on the market are worth the price they charge. However, one has to realize these things just open the door, and give you the fundamentals to succeed.

 

It's like learning to read and write. Just majoring in English does not mean you will become a world class award winning novelist.

 

Going through the process, I uncovered a million details to what I do, that make it work, that I was not even aware I applied. Tiny things, that seem insignificant, like the distance the days open, from the previous days close matter. I knew this subconsciously, and traded with that knowledge subconsciously, but I was not consciously aware of it's importance untill I had to write it all down, and review it over and over again.

 

Sometimes months would go by in between readings, and only then, with a fresh mind would I realize a little detail had been neglected and must be edited in.

 

I am no professional writer. I can easily see how someone with less literary 'attention to detail' can skip things that are essential in a course they write.

Edited March 18, 2012 by SpearPointTrader

[joshdance 10]

  SpearPointTrader said:

I am only good if I become some indentured servant and give it all away for free. People expect me to slave away, at their beckon call and just give them what I fought long and hard for; or some how *I* am the bad guy (A common theme in our culture).

 

Which people expected you to slave away writing your book for free? Did some people ask you to do it? From what I can tell, no one has asked you to give it away, and you did it own your own.

 

  SpearPointTrader said:

Writing my course did do me some good though. It forced my to examine what I do, step by step. It crystallized my system into a complete, comprehensive, clearly understood method, and made me a much better trader.

 

Your trading system is the sum of 15+ years of hard work, dedication, and experience. Your mistake would to think that someone who read it and studied it would get 15+ years of experience out of it. They wouldn't. They would likely be reading "another book"... why? Because they don't OWN it .. when someone purchases a trading system, it's not theirs, and no amount of tweaking can make it theirs. They need to develop their own way. It's your baby, and so of course you think it's great. And no doubt it contains great stuff, but you can't simply pass along that stuff, because it's a part of who YOU are, and you can't pass that along in a book.

 

The sad part is there are probably some people right now composing a private message to you offering to buy it, thinking they have found the holy grail. These are the type of people who cannot be helped by courses, no matter how "good" the material.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  joshdance said:

Which people expected you to slave away writing your book for free? Did some people ask you to do it? From what I can tell, no one has asked you to give it away, and you did it own your own.

 

 

 

Your trading system is the sum of 15+ years of hard work, dedication, and experience. Your mistake would to think that someone who read it and studied it would get 15+ years of experience out of it. They wouldn't. They would likely be reading "another book"... why? Because they don't OWN it .. when someone purchases a trading system, it's not theirs, and no amount of tweaking can make it theirs. They need to develop their own way. It's your baby, and so of course you think it's great. And no doubt it contains great stuff, but you can't simply pass along that stuff, because it's a part of who YOU are, and you can't pass that along in a book.

 

You know, one thing teaching martial arts has taught me is that any skill can be taught by breaking it down into a step, by step systematic teaching program designed to take the raw beginner from 'Know nothing' to proficient. My course was written form that experience. I designed it that way in large part because other courses I had gotten in the past were simply not structure the way people learn.

 

I actually took my martial arts curriculum,wrote it all out in one column, and on the other side of the page I wrote the corresponding trading skill for each level that I used to replace the martial arts skill. Like a martial arts program, there is an exam at the end of each level. one builds on the other, and you cannot progress to the next, unless you pass the test on the previous.

 

  joshdance said:

The sad part is there are probably some people right now composing a private message to you offering to buy it, thinking they have found the holy grail. These are the type of people who cannot be helped by courses, no matter how "good" the material.

 

Maybe those are the smart one's who are willing to work hard and master what is essentially 2 year long course. You can't know without being personally involved in people's lives.

 

I have a 25 unit minimum at $80.00 a pop for the fulfillment company to produce them. So there is a fat chance someone could get this with a PM to me. I killed the project before the printing. There are only a handful of samples floating around. Those are in the hands of the guys who helped me write and produce it. No one is going to part with their copy.

Edited March 18, 2012 by SpearPointTrader

[Tams 20]

  Tams said:

...

 

If I were you, I would market the course at no less than $25,000. Those who cannot afford it would never bother you.

 

  SpearPointTrader said:

No thanks. I can just make that trading...with Zero extra effort. .....

 

Yup... you have just hit it on the nail with my post #8.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  Tams said:

There are paid mentors.

 

I am not saying there are no good paid mentors.

There are good profitable traders who would take on students for a fee.

They are few and far in between,

they are difficult to find,

and even more difficult to persuade them to take you on as a student.

 

 

How much are you willing to paid for such a tutuorship?

 

 

Well, lets do some math.

 

How much do you think you will earn after you have learned his system?

 

1) I don't know. How could I know?

2) $1,000 per month

3) $5,000 per month

4) more than $5k per month

 

 

if your answer is 1, you have just failed the entrance exam. His system is not for you. Move on.

 

if your answer is 2 or above,

then how much do you think the mentor is worth?

 

Would $500 do it?

Would $5,000 do it?

 

or many be you meant $500 per day?

 

 

 

I will let you do the cost/benefit math.

 

 

 

enjoy.

 

 

And

 

  Tams said:

Yup... you have just hit it on the nail with my post #8.

 

 

This is a good point. However, from the authors perspective, some guys just like to share what they do. Others like the idea that they have a published book. Some, do it to refund after blowing out an account (I believe this was the case of Russell Sands form the Turtle trading system) or take a smaller account to a point where it can be lived off of much more rapidly. Others write the course, initially to organize their thoughts for themselves. Later someone talks them into publishing it. Sometimes, having a steady income from a course, that pays the bills takes the pressure off of trading, so you are more successful. I did it for a mix of the above.

 

I have noticed the biggest ones all seem to be in the brokerage business, and write courses to help their clients(My broker did this), and also in part to help market their brokerage. Same for information and data services. Successful traders will pay for data long term. Losers will not. It's a matter of customer retention for them. Oddly, I noticed these publishers do not seem to be demonified too much. Maybe because there aren't too many of them? or they have limited availability? I don't know. I can't figure out why people demonify anyone for sharing their knowledge.

 

So, there are a lot of reasons one would publish a course. It's a huge multifaceted thing. You can't make one dimensional blanket assumptions as to anyone's motivation.

 

What is still don't understand is all of the negative opinions people have of guys who do decide to share their knowledge and charge a fee for that. It boggles my mind to no end.

Edited March 18, 2012 by SpearPointTrader

[Tams 20]

  SpearPointTrader said:

And

 

 

 

 

This is a good point. However, from the authors perspective, some guys just like to share what they do. Others like the idea that they have a published book. Some, do it to refund after blowing out an account (I believe this was the case of Russell Sands form the Turtle trading system) or take a smaller account to a point where it can be lived off of much more rapidly. Others write the course, initially to organize their thoughts for themselves. Later someone talks them into publishing it. Sometimes, having a steady income from a course, that pays the bills takes the pressure off of trading, so you are more successful. I did it for a mix of the above.

 

I have noticed the biggest ones all seem to be in the brokerage business, and write courses to help their clients(My broker did this), and also in part to help market their brokerage. Same for information and data services. Successful traders will pay for data long term. Losers will not. It's a matter of customer retention for them.

 

So, there are a lot of reasons one would publish a course. It's a huge multifaceted thing. You can't make one dimensional blanket assumptions as to anyone's motivation.

 

you have hit it on the nail as well... there are people who genuinely have something to share... this thread is about the scammers, we are not talking about the good people you described. Some of my responses are specifically to those newbies who want to acquire the holy grail through purchasing a "system"... I believe your intentions are good.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  Tams said:

you have hit it on the nail as well... there are people who genuinely have something to share... this thread is about the scammers, we are not talking about the good people you described. Some of my responses are specifically to those newbies who want to acquire the holy grail through purchasing a "system"... I believe your intentions are good.

 

Well, even if you are looking for a genuine educational course, you pretty much have to purchase a system. Either that or Pass the National futures exam (still have to buy a study course for that), and go get a job in a brokerage. Trying to find some elusive master, which is just not available outside certain rather tight circles is hardly practical for most.

 

I personally don't believe there are a huge amount of scammers selling courses. I think that is just erroneous "Common wisdom". I don't doubt there are course that are incomplete, either by design, or more likely lack of writing talent. But I don't personally think there are many scam artists.

 

As for my "Intentions being good" I only got THAT feed back when I decided not to sell the course. When I was doing the test marketing, I was just another scammer trying to "Rip people off". My actual intentions, and motivations never mattered. If I stated them, while selling the course, I was a liar. If I stated them AFTER I took it off the market, I am somehow magically genuine.

 

Then people wonder why I am jaded on the idea now....

Edited March 18, 2012 by SpearPointTrader

[Tams 20]

  SpearPointTrader said:

Well, even if you are looking for a genuine educational course, you pretty much have to purchase a system. Either that or Pass the National futures exam (still have to buy a study course for that), and go get a job in a brokerage. Trying to find some elusive master, which is just not available outside certain rather tight circles is hardly practical for most.

 

I personally don't believe there are a huge amount of scammers selling courses. I think that is just erroneous "Common wisdom". I don't doubt there are course that are incomplete, either by design, or more likely lack of writing talent. But I don't personally think there are many scam artists.

 

As for my "Intentions being good" I only got THAT feed back when I decided not to sell the course. When I was doing the test marketing, I was just another scammer trying to "Rip people off". My actual intentions, and motivations never mattered. If I stated them, while selling the course, I was a liar. If I stated them AFTER I took it off the market, I am somehow magically genuine.

 

Then people wonder why I am jaded on the idea now....

 

re: I personally don't believe there are a huge amount of scammers selling courses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

...then you are as naive as I originally thought.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  Tams said:

re: I personally don't believe there are a huge amount of scammers selling courses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

...then you are as naive as I originally thought.

 

Can you explain why you think this then? Maybe point out a specific example of a course that is a scamm, and give some details as to why you feel it is so?

 

How many courses have you taken? How many do you have an intimate knowledge of from detailed study and testing?

[Tams 20]

  SpearPointTrader said:

Can you explain why you think this then? Maybe point out a specific example of a course that is a scamm, and give some details as to why you feel it is so?

 

How many courses have you taken? How many do you have an intimate knowledge of from detailed study and testing?

 

 

 

If there were no unscrupulous scammers before you, you would not have received such violent reception on your "sincere" effort. You still don't get it? That's why I used the "naive" word.

 

You are asking for proof? Probably your prospective students asked you the same line of questions -- show me your PnL, show me live calls, show me audited statements, show me, show me.... then give me, give me, give me free. Sounds familiar?

[joshdance 10]

  SpearPointTrader said:

Maybe those are the smart one's who are willing to work hard and master what is essentially 2 year long course.

 

Possibly, or more grail seekers who want to pay for success rather than thinking for themselves. Let us know how many PMs you get in the next week bidding way over $500 for your material, it should be interesting to see... The more you highlight its likelihood to never be released, the more secretive, elusive, and thus valuable it seems; I'll bet you some sucker offers you 10 grand for it.

Edited March 18, 2012 by joshdance

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  Tams said:

If there were no unscrupulous scammers before you, you would not have received such violent reception on your "sincere" effort. You still don't get it? That's why I used the "naive" word.

 

You are asking for proof? Probably your prospective students asked you the same line of questions -- show me your PnL, show me live calls, show me audited statements, show me, show me.... then give me, give me, give me free. Sounds familiar?

 

I never got to the point of having having prospective students. Although, I do believe asking for proof the system is viable is not a bad thing. It's part of due diligence. That's why I initially set up a page on the collective. If you don't know, its a third party that evaluates system performance. What I would do, is place trades there, instead of at my broker. It records the order in real time, but under simulation (my broker does not accept their signals) and logs the entry and exits. Although this is technically a "Sim trade" it's done in real time, so people can see how the system performs. It also helped me track my performance because it gives me all the stats.

 

You never answered my question. How do you knwo there are all those scammers out there? Have you made an intensive study of all of these systems to determine if they are fraudulent or not? Or are you just making wild, baseless claims?

 

Which system, do you have personal first hand knowledge of, that are scamms?

[joshdance 10]

By the way SpearPoint, you wrote this a few months ago:

 

  SpearPointTrader said:

Hello all!

I have been trying a new system recently. One of it's prime tenants is to only trade when you have the picture perfect set up in order to minimize the number of losing trades that you have.

 

Why are you trying new systems if you developed one over the course of 15 years and it's apparently worthy of asking money for?

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  joshdance said:

Possibly, or more grail seekers who want to pay for success rather than thinking for themselves. Let us know how many PMs you get in the next week bidding way over $500 for your material, it should be interesting to see... The more you highlight its likelihood to never be released, the more secretive, elusive, and thus valuable it seems; I'll bet you some sucker offers you 10 grand for it.

 

How do you know so many people are "Grail Seekers", and not all people who are actually looking to learn how to trade? It sounds to me like maybe you have created a little fantasy in your head, about a bunch of individual people that you will never know, never met, and have absolutely no clue about, let alone know well enough to judge their motivations.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  joshdance said:

By the way SpearPoint, you wrote this a few months ago:

 

 

 

Why are you trying new systems if you developed one over the course of 15 years and it's apparently worthy of asking money for?

 

That is how you develop your knowledge base. I have a PDF collection of like 400 trading books.

 

You also need to constantly study, and learn. Your intellectual development does not stop just because you get out of school.

 

Also, I don't remember exactly where you pulled that from, but it may be part of the market research I was doing when I was going to publish the course in the first place.

 

You can go to the book section and find my review on "Four Simple Trades That Work", which is a short sample of portions of my course that I condensed into a new subsystem and threw up on amazon. You can also see where I got busted and all the hell I got.

Edited March 18, 2012 by SpearPointTrader

[Tams 20]

  joshdance said:

Possibly, or more grail seekers who want to pay for success rather than thinking for themselves. Let us know how many PMs you get in the next week bidding way over $500 for your material, it should be interesting to see... The more you highlight its likelihood to never be released, the more secretive, elusive, and thus valuable it seems; I'll bet you some sucker offers you 10 grand for it.

 

 

as a matter of fact, there are scammers using this exact tear jerkker method -- "vendor" cry foul, pleading mistreatment from the world, swear never to sell the system to anyone. Of course leaving an email or contact in the post. Unsuspecting noobs will be flooding the mailbox bagging for a copy of the system at any price. LOL There is nothing new under the sun.

 

I reserve my judgement on this guy.

[Tams 20]

  joshdance said:

by the way spearpoint, you wrote this a few months ago:

  Quote

originally posted by spearpointtrader »

hello all!

I have been trying a new system recently. One of it's prime tenants is to only trade when you have the picture perfect set up in order to minimize the number of losing trades that you have.

 

 

why are you trying new systems if you developed one over the course of 15 years and it's apparently worthy of asking money for?

.

 

 

 

 

Bingo !

 

 

 

 

 

.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  Tams said:

as a matter of fact, there are scammers using this exact tear jerkker method -- cry foul, swear never to sell the system to anyone. Of course leaving an email or contact in the post. Unsuspecting noobs will be flooding the mailbox bagging for copy of the system at any price. LOL There is nothing new under the sun.

 

I have already gotten several PMs today. I replied that the course is not for sale.

 

I am not saying I would not teach what I do to the right person. You would have to be blood family, family by marriage, or someone I'd actually be genuine friends with, for years.

[Lornz 10]

  SpearPointTrader said:

Can you explain why you think this then? Maybe point out a specific example of a course that is a scamm, and give some details as to why you feel it is so?

 

How many courses have you taken? How many do you have an intimate knowledge of from detailed study and testing?

 

Not only do most courses fail to deliver any excess knowledge over reading a couple of books and/or searching the net, but most of the posters on message boards are "scammers" as well.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

  Lornz said:

Not only do most courses fail to deliver any excess knowledge over reading a couple of books and/or searching the net, but most of the posters on message boards are "scammers" as well.

 

How do you know this? How many courses have you studied? Or are you just making blanket statements because everyone else makes the same ones.