Tradestation Vs Multicharts

[Tasuki 10]

There are quite a few things I really do like with Tradestation, but like anything else if you use something frequently enough there are always a couple of things you would like improvement on.

 

2.) Graphics - Obviously this doesn't effect the functionality which is the main reason for using TS to begin with, but after trialing the new version of eSignal for a month I have to say at first glance I thought I was taking a set backwards in some respects moving to TS. I know there a lot of hard core traders and programmer types out there that don't want to waste the resources on fancy graphics and don't think it matters. I am from the school of thought that thinks presentation is what draws you in and makes you feel comfortable ...functionality is what makes you continue to hang around. In that regard TS is a little behind the ball with their Windows 98 graphic styling .

 

From this aspect Multicharts does get a thumbs up over TS.

 

Aston,

Any chance you could post a side-by-side comparison of the graphics of TS and eSignal? I'd give my eye teeth to see what you're talking about. BTW, isn't the Multicharts graphics similar to that of Tradestation? Just curious.

Thanks,

Tasuki

[Aston01 10]

Multicharts beats TS in the fact they offer access to multiple brokers ...not necessarily in regards to graphics.

 

One other thing I did really like with eSignal was they gave you the option to hide the individual window headers until you moused over them...makes a big difference in how much less cluttered things looked.

 

eSignal 11+ graphics example

http://www.cybertradinguniversity.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/eSignal_11_0.png

 

TradeStation example

http://www.tradestation.com/en/trading-technology/whats-new/tradestation-9-0/~/media/Images/TradeStation/Trading%20Technology/Whats%20New%20in%20TradeStation%209%200/Base/01.ashx

[Tasuki 10]

aston,

Thanks very much for the pix. Much appreciated. As far as brokers are concerned, I have had very good luck with Infinity, so I'll just stay with them. But it would be nice with Multicharts to try out a different data feed. Still hoping someone can suggest a data feed that works especially well with Multicharts. Any MC users that swear by a particular data feed?

Thanks,

Tasuki

[Xiao si 10]

Well after developing one valid system with Ninjatrader and one failure, and i am looking to switch to Multicharts so i can use Easy Language and code my own systems. Working with Ninja coders is very expensive and does not, in my view produce value. The coders simply look to maximise their time billed, and really don't have the client's interest at heart. I'm very disillusioned by the whole thing. This is not even to get into the license arrangement that NT allows, making it the favorite with coders and developers. Its a commercial platform, designed to sell products and services and does not serve the best interest of the retail trader in MY VIEW.

 

So, i will start the trial of Multicharts today......any users of MC please feel free to give me lots of advice!

 

XS

[Tasuki 10]

Xiao,

This is off-topic, but it'd be great if you could explain for us what this "license agreement" with Ninjatrader is and how it hurts the trader. I have used Ninjatrader (free version, Kinetick EOD data only, no coding) since it first came out, and I don't know anything about this license agreement problem. I think it would be generally helpful to members of Traders Lab if you could explain the problem.

Thanks,

Tasuki

[Xiao si 10]

Xiao,

This is off-topic, but it'd be great if you could explain for us what this "license agreement" with Ninjatrader is and how it hurts the trader. I have used Ninjatrader (free version, Kinetick EOD data only, no coding) since it first came out, and I don't know anything about this license agreement problem. I think it would be generally helpful to members of Traders Lab if you could explain the problem.

Thanks,

Tasuki

 

I'm referring to licensing of code so to allow limited or controlled use of the algorithms. This protects the coders work from being distributed. NT is the favorite of coders and developers because of the flexibility that this allows in terms of free trials etc. The partner list for NT is growing quickly for this reason, i believe. You don't even need to provide test results, or results with commissions, slippage, so anyone can sell crap to any unsuspecting trader, especially newbie's. NO, i wasn't burned by the process, i just was alarmed when i became aware of it!

 

This is a dream for guys that want to market systems for the sake of marketing systems only. There is no control over this and i fear many will get fleeced. NT's code is the most raw, uninterpreted code, therefore the use of a coder is almost a sure thing unless you have coding experience. I've used Amibroker and Excel before, but i won't even attempt NT. Unfortunately i have a lifetime license...that's where i got fleeced!

 

There is a paradigm shift coming soon for coders and programmers as generic algorithm strategy generators gradually become cheaper and more affordable, there will be no or less demand for trading systems from NT retailers as traders will employ these algorithms to create their own systems that are better suited and perform better than ones developed by coders. The coders day is coming too, and they'll have to become better traders.

 

Not only is the day of the discretionary trader coming to a close (covers his head), but the day of the 'coder for hire' is also coming to a close. Software will not only run the systems we design but design the systems they run....

 

Cheers,

 

 

XS

[electroniclocal 10]

EL, Finally, somebody who likes MC steps up to the plate. Many thanks for your contribution to the thread. May I ask, what data feed do you recommend for Multicharts?Thanks again!

Tasuki

 

I've used eSignal for years but am probably switching to or adding DTNIQ. I also use the data from TS in MultiCharts. I also have algos that use the Interactivebroker data directly rather than symbol mapping as the shorter timeframes need to trade off the same data as is being executed. I run a lot of algos and a 4 core processor handles it fine with the MC 64 bit version. I can add RAM if needed as I run a VPS.

[Tasuki 10]

I'm referring to licensing of code so to allow limited or controlled use of the algorithms. This protects the coders work from being distributed. NT is the favorite of coders and developers because of the flexibility that this allows in terms of free trials etc. The partner list for NT is growing quickly for this reason, i believe. You don't even need to provide test results, or results with commissions, slippage, so anyone can sell crap to any unsuspecting trader, especially newbie's. NO, i wasn't burned by the process, i just was alarmed when i became aware of it!

 

This is a dream for guys that want to market systems for the sake of marketing systems only. There is no control over this and i fear many will get fleeced. NT's code is the most raw, uninterpreted code, therefore the use of a coder is almost a sure thing unless you have coding experience. I've used Amibroker and Excel before, but i won't even attempt NT. Unfortunately i have a lifetime license...that's where i got fleeced!

 

There is a paradigm shift coming soon for coders and programmers as generic algorithm strategy generators gradually become cheaper and more affordable, there will be no or less demand for trading systems from NT retailers as traders will employ these algorithms to create their own systems that are better suited and perform better than ones developed by coders. The coders day is coming too, and they'll have to become better traders.

 

Not only is the day of the discretionary trader coming to a close (covers his head), but the day of the 'coder for hire' is also coming to a close. Software will not only run the systems we design but design the systems they run....

 

Cheers,

 

 

XS

 

Thanks, Xiao, I had no idea that Ninjatrader was such a racket! There is, of course, another racket, and that is the business of hacking protected code. I've heard of at least one place that will crack Tradestation's protected code, and there is no doubt in my mind that some bright guy or gal will get the same idea for Ninjatrader, especially if the pickins' are good. I like the idea that maybe there is a rise in generic code, but I suspect that Ninja will do everything in its power to protect its investment. Do you remember the big hassle we had going from NT version 6.5 to version 7.0? That whole thing was designed to protect the coders. They'll probably try something like that again if they need to do so. Finally I would like to respectfully suggest that the day of the discretionary trader is anything but coming to a close. Exactly the opposite is true.

 

Tasuki

[Tasuki 10]

I've used eSignal for years but am probably switching to or adding DTNIQ. I also use the data from TS in MultiCharts. I also have algos that use the Interactivebroker data directly rather than symbol mapping as the shorter timeframes need to trade off the same data as is being executed. I run a lot of algos and a 4 core processor handles it fine with the MC 64 bit version. I can add RAM if needed as I run a VPS.

 

Electron, I'm sure you know this, but not all data providers are equal. Some friends of mine and I did a test on live data from three sources, Interactive Brokers, eSignal and Tradestation. What we found, briefly, was that IB had the poorest quality data, eSignal the best, and Tradestation was in between. This was not unexpected. Historically, eSignal started as a data provider, TS as a charting package and IB as a bargain basement broker. Personally, I wouldn't trust IB to wash my underwear, but I know they're very popular because they're cheap. As for DTNIQ, there are rumors that they had a big shakeup some time ago, and that the quality of their data suffered after the company re-organized. Reputations change very slowly in t his business, and so, from what I've heard, DTNIQ's data is still considered high quality. All I'm saying is, do your own homework to see whether there is any truth to this or not.

Tasuki

[Xiao si 10]

I've used eSignal for years but am probably switching to or adding DTNIQ. I also use the data from TS in MultiCharts. I also have algos that use the Interactivebroker data directly rather than symbol mapping as the shorter timeframes need to trade off the same data as is being executed. I run a lot of algos and a 4 core processor handles it fine with the MC 64 bit version. I can add RAM if needed as I run a VPS.

 

Elect, I'm also using Esignal and IB with MultiCharts, as of today. Have you had any problems with connectivity with either?

 

Cheers,

 

 

XS

[Xiao si 10]

Personally, I wouldn't trust IB to wash my underwear,

Tasuki

 

So true! But what about that service!!!??:rofl:

[Tams 20]

Electron, I'm sure you know this, but not all data providers are equal. Some friends of mine and I did a test on live data from three sources, Interactive Brokers, eSignal and Tradestation. What we found, briefly, was that IB had the poorest quality data, eSignal the best, and Tradestation was in between. This was not unexpected. Historically, eSignal started as a data provider, TS as a charting package and IB as a bargain basement broker. Personally, I wouldn't trust IB to wash my underwear, but I know they're very popular because they're cheap. As for DTNIQ, there are rumors that they had a big shakeup some time ago, and that the quality of their data suffered after the company re-organized. Reputations change very slowly in t his business, and so, from what I've heard, DTNIQ's data is still considered high quality. All I'm saying is, do your own homework to see whether there is any truth to this or not.

Tasuki

 

I trade ES and HSI.

I have been using IB for my data.

In the past I have used eSignal and tried a couple other datafeeds.

I found IB data adequate for my purpose.

 

Many people complained about IB's data.

I analyzed their data and compared them with eSignal (it was considered the best at the time), I found that if my system's profitability relies on the data's micro-accuracy, I really do not have a workable system. Because no matter how good the datafeed, it is not accurate; It has missed trades, it has delayed timming, it has aggregated quotes. Even if you are sitting on the trading floor, the data is massaged.

 

YMMV... some need more, some need less.

If your profit is from market delta, VSA, etc., you might need more.

If your profit is from scalping, you will need more.

If your profit is from swing trading, you can probably use less.

 

Examine your method... and find whatever works for you.

[Tasuki 10]

So true! But what about that service!!!??:rofl:

 

Xiao, you're such a joker. A friend of mine was using IB (in defiance of his friends' warnings) and his connection to the IB servers crashed while he was in a position. He called IB's customer service to ask them to get him out of his position. Their customer service kept him on the phone for 45 minutes, passing him from one person to another without ever addressing his need to get out of his position. His Tradestation feed was still working, and he watched the position go against him more and more, and he got more and more desperate, but no matter how he pleaded, the IB support didn't get around to actually listening to his request for three quarters of an hour. Finally, they got him out, but he swore that they were taunting him the entire time. Needless to say, he took his money (what was left of it) out of IB the next day.

The funny thing is, you hear these stories about IB all the time, and yet some people, including one of the people in our trading group, have had only good luck with IB's customer service. I guess it just depends on whether you want to take the risk of losing your shirt, so to speak, in order to get the low commissions.

 

Tasuki

[Tams 20]

my experience with IB has been excellent.

I don't think anybody become big by being bad.

[Xiao si 10]

A little off topic, but i need a little help...how do i import my historical data into Multicharts? The HSI for example... do i create a custom symbol for the historical data? In ninjatrader i would use the HSI ##-##, but not sure what to do in MC....? Still looking on the forum for MC...

 

Any ideas Tams?

 

Cheers,

 

 

XS

[Tams 20]

A little off topic, but i need a little help...how do i import my historical data into Multicharts? The HSI for example... do i create a custom symbol for the historical data? In ninjatrader i would use the HSI ##-##, but not sure what to do in MC....? Still looking on the forum for MC...

 

Any ideas Tams?

 

Cheers,

 

 

XS

 

what kind of data do you have?

is it a continuous contract data?

do you have your data in an ascii file?

 

if you are using esignal, you don't need to enter the historic continuous data, because esignal has it all prepared for you.

 

 

if you have an ascii file

you have to create a symbol in MC first, then import the data into it.

 

go to QuoteManager

right click on the symbol you have created,

select import data

[Xiao si 10]

what kind of data do you have?

is it a continuous contract data?

do you have your data in an ascii file?

 

if you are using esignal, you don't need to enter the historic continuous data, because esignal has it all prepared for you.

 

 

if you have an ascii file

you have to create a symbol in MC first, then import the data into it.

 

go to QuoteManager

right click on the symbol you have created,

select import data

 

Thanks Tams,

 

The data is from Tickdata.com

 

I can format it into what i want and in continuous contracts using their tick writer.

 

I use eSignal but they do not have much historical data.....

 

I have 5 years of HSI data....can i name my symbol whatever i want? For example HSI ##-##?

 

Cheers,

 

 

XS

[Xiao si 10]

Thanks Tams, got it!

 

Currently testing systems that i built on Adaptrade's Builder, cool fun.

 

XS

[Xiao si 10]

After 1 week of using MultiCharts and can say that its much easier to use than NT. Everything seems to be in the 'right place' if you know what i mean. I like the charts too, the basic ones by default are simple and clean. The workspaces work really well and seem to use less resources from my PC than NT.

 

Hooking up to my broker is quite easy. Getting data into it for testing is simple too. The quote manager works very well.

 

One thing i noticed is how relatively quiet their support forum is too, compared to NT's.

 

So far this has been one of the smartest things I've done over the last 8 months.

 

Go MultiCharts!

 

XS

[smmatrix 11]

After 1 week of using MultiCharts and can say that its much easier to use than NT. Everything seems to be in the 'right place' if you know what i mean. I like the charts too, the basic ones by default are simple and clean. The workspaces work really well and seem to use less resources from my PC than NT.

 

Hooking up to my broker is quite easy. Getting data into it for testing is simple too. The quote manager works very well.

 

One thing i noticed is how relatively quiet their support forum is too, compared to NT's.

 

So far this has been one of the smartest things I've done over the last 8 months.

 

Go MultiCharts!

 

XS

 

Thanks for reporting back. Based on your review, I'm once again optimistic with Multicharts. I gave up on them about three years ago. Would you mind posting any favorite charts along with your fav indicators?

[Xiao si 10]

Thanks for reporting back. Based on your review, I'm once again optimistic with Multicharts. I gave up on them about three years ago. Would you mind posting any favorite charts along with your fav indicators?

 

Well i don't use any indicators with coded systems, but i like the little bar timer under the marker....You had to add that in NT.

 

I just like the relative functionality.

 

XS

[onesmith 10]

Xiao si, glad you are happy with MC. But I will never switch. I love my TS.

[Xiao si 10]

Xiao si, glad you are happy with MC. But I will never switch. I love my TS.

 

My trading coach uses TS and he said he'll be the last one to switch lol!

 

Cheers,

 

 

XS

[smmatrix 11]

My trading coach uses TS and he said he'll be the last one to switch lol!

 

Cheers,

 

 

XS

 

I know that I will never leave Tradestation. Nothing else comes close IMHO.

[Gann Trader 10]

I hope I am not posting in the wrong thread but I need help formatting some 3rd party data for TS

 

I would like to exclude the last 2 lines in this data sample . I am aware that the instructions has to be written in the attributes folder and that ,, needs to be written on the header line, but I am not sure how to do it correctly. Below in my sample data you will see there are 9 columns of data, representing

date open high Low close, volume open interest, I would like to exclude the last 2 columns

 

199503,461.45000000

 

I can delete them using Excel, but I wanted to know if there was a easier way using either the attribute folder, or including some instructions in the header line within the data

 

date open high Low close, volume openinterest

19950103,821.75000000,822.50000000,820.75000000,82 2.00000000, 48984, 211544,199503,461.45000000

 

 

 

thanks very much