The Right Way to Learning Price Action

[StreetCoup 10]

The market has a language and many fail to interpret its language. In frustration, some say the market was random, or the market was impossible to beat. Some even resort to far flung theories such as believing that a powerful group of individuals is controlling the market. When traders do not understand price, market movements appear to be random. But they are not. There is an incredible degree of order. And when traders say that the market cannot be beaten, it is typically said in response to appease their own failure. Trading is not suited for everyone, just as being an attorney is not for everyone.

 

Some traders defy the typical learning curve and excel from day one. That is an excellent gift to have. Even though I’ve seen videos of such prodigies, unfortunately, for many, a rocky road is the price for learning this profession. Experience cannot be served on a hot platter. It must be earned.

 

I highly recommend you to take physical printouts of market activity in different time frames and study them well. Studying them on screen will not replace the pen and paper. I used the 1H time frame back then, but nowadays I would recommend to go with the 1H for equities with regular trading hours, and the 4H for markets trading around the clock (such as futures or currencies). You will easily see the trends I am talking about here and following with great success.

 

Try to feel and touch the market because there is a lot of psychology involved behind the price action. You do not need to know the exact economic data behind. That is nonsensical information overflow. The reason that many traders have a difficult time understanding markets is because they cannot understand the underlying reason why markets move. If greater attention was placed on understanding price, more traders would be having success. I’m sure you have heard that there is no better indicator than price. This is what many traders are attempting to decipher but cannot. The real pulse of the market remains elusive to them. If we don’t know why, the markets will tie us up in knots and will seem like a mystery that can never be solved.

 

What do most amateur traders use to address this problem? They use technical indicators. Indicators do not stimulate critical thinking skills. You rely on something to give you the answer because you don’t know the answer yourself. Imagine a familiar scenario for a moment: three indicators tell you it is now good to be long, while one indicator says you should not. Is this really having real insight on why markets move?

 

A successful trader’s mindset is very hard to put into words, hence I understand if this article appears abstract to you. What I strongly want to encourage is self-study and critical thinking with regards to what you see in your printouts. Feel free to contact me anytime, through.

 

Chances are smashingly slim that you will make it as a trader, however, do not believe those that tell you that the odds are stacked against you. This is a myth. If you develop a consistent method, the odds are not against you. Struggling traders always find excuses for why the market is bigger or stronger than me or you. The world is filled with those that say it cannot be done. An agenda to prove something to someone is always up their sleeve, so they can finally tell you, “I told you so.” Do not waste your precious time with these individuals.

[direct 10]

WOW... Might have been nice if you had actually offered something instead of beating your chest. Empathy... Imagine you were a novice trader trying to take something from that. What exactly did YOU learn?

 

The market has a language and many fail to interpret its language. In frustration, some say the market was random, or the market was impossible to beat. Some even resort to far flung theories such as believing that a powerful group of individuals is controlling the market. When traders do not understand price, market movements appear to be random. But they are not. There is an incredible degree of order. And when traders say that the market cannot be beaten, it is typically said in response to appease their own failure. Trading is not suited for everyone, just as being an attorney is not for everyone.

 

Some traders defy the typical learning curve and excel from day one. That is an excellent gift to have. Even though I’ve seen videos of such prodigies, unfortunately, for many, a rocky road is the price for learning this profession. Experience cannot be served on a hot platter. It must be earned.

 

I highly recommend you to take physical printouts of market activity in different time frames and study them well. Studying them on screen will not replace the pen and paper. I used the 1H time frame back then, but nowadays I would recommend to go with the 1H for equities with regular trading hours, and the 4H for markets trading around the clock (such as futures or currencies). You will easily see the trends I am talking about here and following with great success.

 

Try to feel and touch the market because there is a lot of psychology involved behind the price action. You do not need to know the exact economic data behind. That is nonsensical information overflow. The reason that many traders have a difficult time understanding markets is because they cannot understand the underlying reason why markets move. If greater attention was placed on understanding price, more traders would be having success. I’m sure you have heard that there is no better indicator than price. This is what many traders are attempting to decipher but cannot. The real pulse of the market remains elusive to them. If we don’t know why, the markets will tie us up in knots and will seem like a mystery that can never be solved.

 

What do most amateur traders use to address this problem? They use technical indicators. Indicators do not stimulate critical thinking skills. You rely on something to give you the answer because you don’t know the answer yourself. Imagine a familiar scenario for a moment: three indicators tell you it is now good to be long, while one indicator says you should not. Is this really having real insight on why markets move?

 

A successful trader’s mindset is very hard to put into words, hence I understand if this article appears abstract to you. What I strongly want to encourage is self-study and critical thinking with regards to what you see in your printouts. Feel free to contact me anytime, through.

 

Chances are smashingly slim that you will make it as a trader, however, do not believe those that tell you that the odds are stacked against you. This is a myth. If you develop a consistent method, the odds are not against you. Struggling traders always find excuses for why the market is bigger or stronger than me or you. The world is filled with those that say it cannot be done. An agenda to prove something to someone is always up their sleeve, so they can finally tell you, “I told you so.” Do not waste your precious time with these individuals.

[kick buttkowski 10]

Great post on price action. You are right on. Once a trader becomes comfortable with how the market moves, you have then most likely changed your destination in regards to being successful in the market.

[sweet n´sour 10]

Can you explain a bit more why you think looking at printouts is better than looking at the computerscreen.

 

Also I realized that even successful traders (or at least some who I believe to be successful) are not in agreement, on why the market does what it does.

 

For example I have listened for some time to 2 different trading gurus, who run trading rooms, who I both believe not to be scam artist, but successful traders.

 

Yet the one is sure to make his money, because he knows were the newbies (the dumb money) are making their mistakes. And in general he believes that the professionals take the money from the amateurs. His whole trading plan / setups are build on that scenario.

 

The other one is quite the opposite. He believes that in the markets the professionals take the money from the other professionals. The amateurs in his thinking are not rich enough to be cared about. They have not enough money for the pros to be of real interest. (Perhaps only as a "side dish" so to speak).

His trading is build around a different theory about the markets. But he is also successful.

 

So perhaps the ultimate reason for success in trading is not in understanding "why" the market moves, but simply "how it normaly moves".

 

I am not sure...

[madan 10]

Hello Sir,

IAm not expert trader. But i had littile difficulty in understanding your point. Understanding Price action through Indicators rather than Price patterns is more Objective, is it not. After all indicators are derivatives of Price movement only. I am sorry . Pl explain in depth.

[slick60 10]

I don't know why I am answering this post. When I get an email and read it and expect to be enlightened I take the time. But this time I am sitting back in my chair and saying Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh!

Nice oratory, I think?????????????????

 

I recently ready Mark Douglas "Trading in the Zone". I think for traders wishing to learn perhaps a bit of what you say they find the book and read it.

Surely you cannot believe that these markets are not moved by money?

Please tell us what to do in the way of guidance and I will be the first to say thank you.

I think maybe "direct" is onto something.

slick60

[gianno 10]

The market has a language and many fail to interpret its language.

 

I was sure this sounded like something I read a month ago. The thing is that the author of that blog doesn't just keep on talking but he does instead the hard work necessary to understand market price action. He was spot on as a matter of fact.

 

I highly recommend you to take physical printouts of market activity in different time frames and study them well. Studying them on screen will not replace the pen and paper.

 

If you must scan 1000 stocks every day and 100 future contracts there is no time for that. Speed is part of the edge. Take you time printing out charts while quants make money.

[SunTrader 10]

Some traders defy the typical learning curve and excel from day one. That is an excellent gift to have. Even though I’ve seen videos of such prodigies, unfortunately, for many, a rocky road is the price for learning this profession. Experience cannot be served on a hot platter. It must be earned.....

Well I have yet to hear of a single trading child prodigy so unless that photo is of your son or yourself many years ago explain how much trading experience exactly you have?

[RealDemo 10]

I was going to write more about this article and then I thought what a waste of time.

 

If you have "thanked" for this article you need to go and stand in the corner and think about what you have done..... :rofl:

 

...c'mon please, get it together guys this is lamentable.

[StreetCoup 10]

If you must scan 1000 stocks every day and 100 future contracts there is no time for that. Speed is part of the edge. Take you time printing out charts while quants make money.

 

I agree. It only works if you are watching a limited selection of markets (or, say, if you exclusively trade the ES). To actually grasp the fundamentals of price action and trends, it is perfectly sufficient to focus on a select few.

 

Well I have yet to hear of a single trading child prodigy so unless that photo is of your son or yourself many years ago explain how much trading experience exactly you have?

 

Takeshi Kotegawa or Tim Sykes come to mind. Two very different personalities, but two individuals who seem to have made serious money from day one. To get back to your question, I have been swing trading stocks since 2004 and futures since 2007.

[StreetCoup 10]

Can you explain a bit more why you think looking at printouts is better than looking at the computerscreen.

 

Also I realized that even successful traders (or at least some who I believe to be successful) are not in agreement, on why the market does what it does.

 

For example I have listened for some time to 2 different trading gurus, who run trading rooms, who I both believe not to be scam artist, but successful traders.

 

Yet the one is sure to make his money, because he knows were the newbies (the dumb money) are making their mistakes. And in general he believes that the professionals take the money from the amateurs. His whole trading plan / setups are build on that scenario.

 

The other one is quite the opposite. He believes that in the markets the professionals take the money from the other professionals. The amateurs in his thinking are not rich enough to be cared about. They have not enough money for the pros to be of real interest. (Perhaps only as a "side dish" so to speak).

His trading is build around a different theory about the markets. But he is also successful.

 

So perhaps the ultimate reason for success in trading is not in understanding "why" the market moves, but simply "how it normaly moves".

 

I am not sure...

 

It is also my observation that successful traders tend to have a sound theory for what they are seeing and why things are happening the way they do. I had a mentor myself and he looked at the market philosophically as a battleground for bulls and bears on which both groups constantly fight for control. This was inspirational to me.

 

Here is an elaborated attempt at putting my mindset in words:

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/markets/11630-managing-understanding-nature-trends.html

 

The reason why I suggested to make printouts is because it makes you reflect on price action even more. You figure out a method with more attention on paper than on screen. Working on screen is too slack. Once you have a method and have seen it perform in real-time, your belief in it grows, and hence your discipline.

[RealDemo 10]

It is also my observation that successful traders tend to have a sound theory for what they are seeing and why things are happening the way they do. I had a mentor myself and he looked at the market philosophically as a battleground for bulls and bears on which both groups constantly fight for control. This was inspirational to me.

 

:rofl:

 

..... it's like a veil has been lifted :rofl:

 

....philosophically? did he? I think he might have had better luck looking at it metaphorically.

[khamore1 10]

Managing and Understanding the Nature of Trends

by StreetCoup 01-09-2012, 09:10 AM

________________________________________

QUATE BY STREETCOUP

A trend represents the evolution of public sentiment, specifically, the psychology between optimistic market participants (bulls) and its pessimistic counterparts (bears). Moreover, the angle of a trend can determine whether the market’s mood is extremely optimistic or extremely pessimistic.

 

One thing that is very common of traders is that they consistently take a pounding from the market because they do not understand the underlying forces of trends. If the market is visibly moving down, sellers possess greater authority while buyers are countering against the seller’s strong influence. In the bigger perspective, such upswings are mere counter-moves on the way down. Buying is thus a much more challenging proposition than going with the dominant force. The opposite applies to rising markets in which buyers are in control.

 

If a market is in a decline and a trader is short, there is no point in covering, buying, and shorting again lower and lower because he will not be accomplishing anything of greater significance. What is the advantage in being exposed to new risk if a market is in an obvious decline already? You should stay short in a downtrend and not be overly concerned about reversals against you. On the contrary, there is no point in buying into every dip in hope for a massive recovery rally. New spikes on the way down are a necessity and a chance for bears to adjust their stops lower, thus reducing their risks or even secure increasingly more profits.

 

If you think about why markets move up and down: It is because there is an ongoing war between bulls and bears. These two opposing groups behave like armies on a battlefield. The aim of the bulls is to push markets up because they make money if they are successful, but they forfeit money if they are not. Then you have an opposing crowd that is just as intense as bulls in moving markets to the opposite direction. We basically have two enemies with two very different goals.

 

The bottom line is that all up and down movements are actually the result of a dynamic battle being fought out between these two forces. Significant battle lines are drawn days to weeks before, and have an immense impact on how the market moves the following day. A fight for control is taking place at these lines and are what we call a support or resistance area. As the bulls advance, the bears retreat and regroup at the next resistance. There, more bears enter the market in hope to overwhelm the bulls in a larger number to push the bulls back down toward support. Bulls regroup at support with the goal to push the bears back up towards resistance again. It is a cycle that appears in all markets.

 

What is being exploited for profit is the dominant trend of the market. We do not make money by predicting support and resistance areas, but by catching turnarounds there. Once a trend is initiated after such a turnaround, it is not going to stop right away, but it will continue for an extended period. The ignition will trigger a chain reaction of orders that will predominantly serve the winning army’s interest. In an uptrend, bullish traders are making more and more money while bearish investors need to cover their shorts and reverse their position which, in turn, gives further boost to the ongoing uptrend.

 

Obviously, those market participants holding long positions will not easily give up their money-printing machine and stick to this position for as long as possible. Same for the former bearish participants who are finally starting to profit, expect the trend to continue. A trader’s fear that the market would turn against him any moment is usually unjustified. The challenging part is to stick with a position through thick and thin until the position is stopped out for good. Prior to this, a trend follower’s job is easier than you might imagine: wait and sit on your hands.

__________________________________________________________________________

 

I have two questions for you

 

1. What one should do when the market is ranging? (Which is 80% of the time) go hibernate?

 

2. Can you prove you A.? You trade…B. you make money… (I mean real money. not monopoly money?)

Edited February 21, 2012 by khamore1

[SunTrader 10]

..... since 2004 and futures since 2007.

And the teenage picture is .... someone else or ..... not current?

[StreetCoup 10]

And the teenage picture is .... someone else or ..... not current?

 

I wonder why people keep pounding on this picture. It's a year old and I still look the same. Sorry for looking young, but I'm late twenties.

[TheNegotiator 13]

I think the problem here is statement of the obvious and no real substance. If someone wishes to follow up any particular idea with an in depth discussion of the topic I would think it would be more useful to many people(rather than people just thinking it is useful to them). However, the 'author' does raise a good point from a superficial perspective. Price action does, although not in isolation, help to identify market reaction. But here's the point. You have to know what the market is reacting to in order to appropriately assess the meaning of price action. The great thing to take away from this is that for those who are willing to do a little work looking around TradersLab, there are a fair number of threads which significantly flesh out these ideas. Perhaps the 'author' may wish to join in some of those discussions at some point.

[zdo 20]

Great article, StreetCoup. It’s good to see some others found it helpful.

 

A few (hopefully) supportive comments...

I have done a smattering of posts in alignment with this theme.

In

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/beginners-forum/11735-need-direction-2.html#post137295 etc. , current educational paradigms were indicted, but it really goes deeper than enculturation. It goes to human consciousness…

 

My longtime mantra to noobs has been “find your own way!”. This seems to be a good place to finish that out a little bit (since I don’t have the inclination, need, or focus to go all Big Golden C and craft completed publications, etc.). Paralleling the ‘education’ angle mentioned above, it’s along StreetC’s “defy the typical learning curve” .

The typical “learning curve” involves placing process up hierarchy from vision. Most noobs in this ‘you create your own world, your own rules’ game (that trading is!) first seek and choose processes, assuming they have determined what they want. False assumption! Then most noobs then use those processes (‘new to you’ methods, techniques, shortcuts, indicators, etc.) to speculate about what they want and then get trapped in those very processes ‘forever’ – almost inevitably coming to use them as ways to avoid discomforts, for self sedation, conflict minimization, conflict manipulation, etc. How do you spell loosers at the core ? …

 

So if you’re going to “find your own way!” / “defy the typical learning curve” first develop a vision of what you really want Start (or re-start) with NoThing. In the beginning, ( and if necessary, in any ‘new’ of your fresh beginnings), consider what you want completely independently of consideration of process and completely independently of it’s rational ‘possibility’ . Separate what you want from what you think is possible! ( because the only time you really know if something can be created or accomplished is when you have done it. Everything else is just limiting speculation! ... and no, this isn't new age positive thinking bulsht...).

 

As you traverse and explore multiple representations of the markets, form concepts (see StreetCoups 3rd and 4th paragraphs above as an example of one possible way of doing that..) Then, from those concepts, allow and assist a vision (different from concepts!) to be formed of the trader and trading you choose to naturally manifest. … However you naturally do it - the essence is build an individually generated foundation in REALITY…

( which is very often far, far removed from many noobs’ initial concepts of

market ‘reality’ BTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

 

…along similar lines …The market does have a “language” – but it talks differently to you than it talks to anyone else on this whole planet. There are, of course, common perceptual schemas, but you best leverage others’ perspectives and knowledge through your own vision becoming manifest…

…more similar lines… The processes (‘new to you’ methods, techniques, shortcuts, indicators, etc.) do have a purpose, function, and a time -but that comes much later in development. You will need to include process. But, deliberation on process best comes when it can serve the manifestation of your vision. With vision really up hierarchy from process and with vision operating as a factual, organinzing principle, you will literally innovate and attract methods and teachers instead of having to seek them!

 

All the best ... about 3 % will really get this... and, ironically, about 3% will thrive at trading...

Edited February 22, 2012 by zdo

[amatulic 10]

A few things wrong with this article.

When traders do not understand price, market movements appear to be random. But they are not. There is an incredible degree of order.

Not really. There's an incredible degree of randomness too, depending on who the players are at any given moment. Price action is more about understanding how the big guys who drive the price are screwing the little guys, what each population is thinking, what they are doing. It's understanding that brokerage firms already know what price patterns the newbies are looking for, and knowing when those firms are likely to trade against them, and deciding that you'd rather be on the winning side than the newbie side.

I highly recommend you to take physical printouts of market activity in different time frames and study them well. Studying them on screen will not replace the pen and paper.

Nothing wrong with that, but it's an unnecessary waste. Screens are fine.

 

The best thing you can do for yourself is take all the indicators off and start trading, first by charting trades, then in real time on the screen, using only price (and volume if you're on a time frame of at least 5 minutes where volume starts getting meaningful). My mentor once got all upset with my focus on indicators and forced me to trade without them for a couple of months. It was the best learning experience I've had, a real epiphany to realize that I could trade profitably without any indicators at all.

 

-A

[zdo 20]

A few things wrong with this article.

 

Not really. There's an incredible degree of randomness too, depending on who the players are at any given moment. Price action is more about understanding how ...

 

...

 

Nothing wrong with that, but it's an unnecessary waste. Screens are fine.

 

The best thing you can do for yourself is take all the indicators off and start trading, first by charting trades, then in real time on the screen, using only price (and volume if you're on a time frame of at least 5 minutes where volume starts getting meaningful). ...

 

noobs,

 

re: “A few things wrong with this article”

 

It’s individual representational system dependent! … if there are ~20 posters and 1000 readers then, by golly, there are 1020 different perceptual frameworks, …

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/12081-close-bar-meaningless-13.html#post139913

 

This is a perfect example for ‘find your own way’. Is amatulic wrong? No. Is StreetCoup wrong? No.

 

... only real ‘wrong’ was making StreetCoup’s way, or any one else’s way, wrong and his way right.

 

It’s individual representational system dependent! Find your own way!

[TheNegotiator 13]

Not really. There's an incredible degree of randomness too, depending on who the players are at any given moment.

 

It's semantics, but I disagree I'm afraid. Nothing is random, but some things will always appear random to us due to contraints of exchange rules, technological ability and human imagination. As good as random but not the same as random.

 

noobs,

 

re: “A few things wrong with this article”

 

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/12081-close-bar-meaningless-13.html#post139913

 

This is a perfect example for ‘find your own way’. Is amatulic wrong? No. Is StreetCoup wrong? No.

 

... only real ‘wrong’ was making StreetCoup’s way, or any one else’s way, wrong and his way right.

 

It’s individual representational system dependent! Find your own way!

 

If the insinuation here is that these "noobs" are wrong, isn't that just as bad as condemning one idea or another as wrong? I think it's interesting to view other people's opinions when they are vastly different from my own in order to understand how their perspective was formed.

[StreetCoup 10]

What zdo writes is intellectual trading at its best and extremely inspiring. Although it takes a few times to read before grasping the whole content, zdo is perhaps providing the most valuable advice a novice trader can receive. Manifesting a ubiquitous concept of how you see the day-to-day price action is an essential foundation to every trader. If you cannot get behind, seeking up a reputable mentor with such a concept is the next best thing to do. Whichever way you decide for, it takes commitment and constant reflecting of how you perceive the market and seeing if the market confirms your theories. These are most definitely not conspiracy theories that so many failed traders love to resort to and that you read about in these forums.

[zdo 20]

If the insinuation here is that these "noobs" are wrong,...

 

Where did you get that?

…not insinuating that any noobs are wrong at all…

The only 'wrong' I identified was when the one poster made the other poster wrong, instead of...

With a ‘find your own way!’ orientation, about the only mistake one can make is to lock into that someone who knows and can show you is ‘out there’ or that the way of reading the market, etc. is ‘out there’

 

I think it's interesting to view other people's opinions when they are vastly different from my own in order to understand how their perspective was formed.

...am also honoring the multiverse of perspectives (and ... acknowledging the commonalities)