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95% of Traders Lose: Is this Stat Misleading?

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Quite right VJ, and one of the main reasons small businesses fail is under capitalisation. Trading does have certain specific requirements but it has as many similarities to any other business than differences.

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In my own opinion,doesnt matter what it is,,trading or most things in general,95% people dont do there research,then when there expectations dont meet they change to something else.

Also what i have notice thruout many forums i see most people think only trade trade trade,not moneymanagement or portfolio selection.

 

As a example i recently payed for a system that truly does win 95% of the time,,i simple used its data points of entry and exits then i put it into excel to optimize MM with portfolio i selected.because im using this system over many stock markets max risk is no more than 0.2% using a volatilty adjust,my point is,with this system runing over 0.2% the equity curve started to fall off,but runnning on only 6 markets 2 being only correlated i could risk up to 5%.

U just have to stay in the game.

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I would like to know what percentage profile you fall into if you die before you are succesfull?

 

Well if you are dead, there is really no way to know if you would have ever been profitable. So maybe something like:

 

Losers:93%

Winners: 5%

Dead: 2%

 

Is this a serious question, if it is, wow....just wow...:doh:

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I guess since I brought it up, death reminds us to enjoy what we do while we live and not focus so much on the results!

 

 

Well I dont know too many traders that enjoy what they are doing if they are getting poor results. So, at least for traders, I would venture a guess that good results = enjoy what you are doing, bad results= not enjoying.

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Fact - A hiigh number of new traders loose money!

 

Fact - Many of those traders are under capitalized and uneducated without ever putting in the time and work to become successful.

 

Fact - Most new traders are not willing to apply the blood, sweat and tears required to become successful in this profession. They may start out strong for a few days, weeks, etc but when they dont see any immediate results they move on or wash out.

 

If you go back to "Think & Grow Rich", most people stop 3' short of their dreams. For some the last 3' is too much to take.

 

I had some free time this morning so I just finished reading this thread. I am qualified to comment in a different way than most since I am in the 5% category !

 

My view is as follows;

 

I choose this post to make my reply from since "Think And Grow Rich" is perhaps the most important part of being a winning FX trader.

 

Whether the number is 95% or 75% Human Pyschology is the KEY !

 

Control your FEAR ! Greed ! and Ego !

 

Trade Plan ! Risk Management ! and watch this video please !

 

To become a winning FX Trader you should understand this !

 

http://broadcast.ino.com/education/traders_whiteboard_6/?blog

 

COMMON SENSE and DESIRE to be the BEST !!!

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Along with a couple others in this thread, I fail to see why the percentages matter. Enter into trading saying, "I will be one of those winners, and I will do whatever it takes to accomplish that goal." If others do the same or not, shouldn't really effect you. Sure, most people lose, but it's clearly a win-able game. Find those who are winning, and emulate how they did it.

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AGREE or Disagree ?

 

I found this ad of sorts and they refer to 95% !Currency Market Moves Because Of Fundamental News Releases!

 

Taking advantage of fundamentals is ALL that separates the pro trader from the wannabes.

 

And the best part is... You don't need to be an economists or have a degree in finance to make money with news.

 

Take two traders, both just beginners, both took the same beginner's Forex course and learned the basics of trading. Both have similar education and background, and both love trading and their goals are to trade for living for the rest of their lives. Let's call them "John" and "Henry".

 

John spends all his time studying the chart, he experiments with new indicators, new parameters, and constantly trying out new trade ideas. He gets his emotions in line. But he never realizes the fundamental factor to Forex trading... as a matter of fact, he purposely ignores news releases and he never makes the simple correction that will make his trades profitable.

 

John, later in his life, is the guy you might find frequenting discussion forums, public online trade (chat) rooms, posting some amazing trades, but never ever show you his live account statement... that is, if he even have a live account at this point.

 

Henry, on the other hand, early on senses that there must be more to Forex trading than just looking at the chart. He may not understand the fundamental news effect to the world economy, but he makes a simple adjustment in the way he looks at trading. Despite the warning from die-hard technical traders to ignore the news, he trusts his intuition and does what's right... not what people told him.

 

Henry becomes a professional trader. You never see him frequenting Forex discussion forums, or online trade rooms, because he's too busy making a fortune in his live account...

 

This is NOT a bogus comparison. You CANNOT become a successful Forex trader as long as you think and act like 95% of Forex traders, who end up losing.

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I agree with the last sentence...and i don't know much about Forex, but speaking about trading in general...fundies and news are not at all necessary-this I know for a fact, and IMHO, pretty much pointless in trading futures.

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Henry becomes a professional trader. You never see him frequenting Forex discussion forums, or online trade rooms, because he's too busy making a fortune in his live account...

 

This is NOT a bogus comparison. You CANNOT become a successful Forex trader as long as you think and act like 95% of Forex traders, who end up losing.

 

Doesn't your statements above and from an earlier post that you are in the 5% profitable traders contradict each other since you are frequenting discussion forums? :confused:

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Interesting comments Warren Forex. I would suggest that you open a new thread to discuss how you trade Forex with fundamentals. We should all try to keep this thread on topic. I have yet to find (in person or other form of solid verification) an individual that is consistently profitable trading spot currencies short term via mainly fundamentals. Of course I am not saying that they don't exist. Yes, technical traders (who like you said make up the majority of the boards) who fail miserably tend to lean more towards Forex. But my guess is that is highly affected by the ease of entry and minimal amount needed to take it serious. Again, I highly suggest that you start a thread. It would be quite interesting to see your thoughts.

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That was point made by another party. In theory I agree. I had few minutes to spare so while watching EUR/USD I posted this however 5 minutes of time is not hanging around

 

Bump:

Interesting comments Warren Forex. I would suggest that you open a new thread to discuss how you trade Forex with fundamentals. We should all try to keep this thread on topic. I have yet to find (in person or other form of solid verification) an individual that is consistently profitable trading spot currencies short term via mainly fundamentals. Of course I am not saying that they don't exist. Yes, technical traders (who like you said make up the majority of the boards) who fail miserably tend to lean more towards Forex. But my guess is that is highly affected by the ease of entry and minimal amount needed to take it serious. Again, I highly suggest that you start a thread. It would be quite interesting to see your thoughts.

 

I have tried to start Threads to teach FX Traders how to win !

 

I find that very few are ready to invest the time and energy to learn !

 

I win usually 90% of the time but I invest the time needed.

 

Trade USD/CAD and Correlate it to the Dow UP or Down !

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Anyone who says "you need fundamentals to succeed" is wrong.

 

Fx is actually easier for a technical trade than stocks/futures because trends persist so well.

 

The advert quoted is just another way of getting suckers for yet another forex course. Classic sales technique, induce doubt, create a need, gets someone nodding, and provide the can't lose, give me dollars now solution.

 

Bump: To be honest I am a little suspicious of WarrenForex's motivations.

 

I just spent 10 minutes looking at his 25 posts and they make grand claims of performance, suggested a number of times that he will start a fundamentals thread here, etc etc. But look more like a subtle solicitation for business than the activities of a normal board member.

 

Warren, why not put up and start that thread.

 

Bump: To be honest I am a little suspicious of WarrenForex's motivations.

 

I just spent 10 minutes looking at his 25 posts and they make grand claims of performance, suggested a number of times that he will start a fundamentals thread here, etc etc. But look more like a subtle solicitation for business than the activities of a normal board member.

 

Warren, why not put up and start that thread.

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Anyone who says "you need fundamentals to succeed" is wrong.

 

Fx is actually easier for a technical trade than stocks/futures because trends persist so well.

 

The advert quoted is just another way of getting suckers for yet another forex course. Classic sales technique, induce doubt, create a need, gets someone nodding, and provide the can't lose, give me dollars now solution.

 

All I have to say as my final word is I win 90% of all my trades. I earn over 10% a month. I trade using fundamentals, technicals and market perception.

 

If you win consistently using just price action or any method ,Great !

 

 

Use what works for you !

 

Good Trading ! I am just stating my experiences of 5 years.

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And the whole "I win 90% of the time". That's great and congrats, but its more useful as a slogan than a measurement of how profitable anyone is. Accuracy is pretty arbitrary when it comes down to PnL, unless you are trying to appeal to people who actually think you need 90% accuracy (or anywhere near that for that matter) to make money....

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Anyone who says "you need fundamentals to succeed" is wrong.

 

Fx is actually easier for a technical trade than stocks/futures because trends persist so well.

 

The advert quoted is just another way of getting suckers for yet another forex course. Classic sales technique, induce doubt, create a need, gets someone nodding, and provide the can't lose, give me dollars now solution.

 

Bump: To be honest I am a little suspicious of WarrenForex's motivations.

 

I just spent 10 minutes looking at his 25 posts and they make grand claims of performance, suggested a number of times that he will start a fundamentals thread here, etc etc. But look more like a subtle solicitation for business than the activities of a normal board member.

 

Warren, why not put up and start that thread.

 

Bump: To be honest I am a little suspicious of WarrenForex's motivations.

 

I just spent 10 minutes looking at his 25 posts and they make grand claims of performance, suggested a number of times that he will start a fundamentals thread here, etc etc. But look more like a subtle solicitation for business than the activities of a normal board member.

 

Warren, why not put up and start that thread.

 

Dear Fellow Trader

 

I have been around this business since 2003. I have been a member here since 2006. I have dealt with many posters like and unlike you.

 

I have posted on other forums. Those that know know and the others well there is not much hope.

 

I am not selling anything.

 

Start a thread and I will post there if you like.

 

Have a Good Day !

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"Anyone who says "you need fundamentals to succeed" is wrong.

 

Fx is actually easier for a technical trade than stocks/futures because trends persist so well.

 

The advert quoted is just another way of getting suckers for yet another forex course. Classic sales technique, induce doubt, create a need, gets someone nodding, and provide the can't lose, give me dollars now solution."

 

 

If every trader thought exactly in the same way, your words may have some value. I’m not an expert here, but my little experience shows this market is accessible to everyone with some money in the pocket, a pc and a network. People know about news and especially this crisis times. Surely, trends are lead by economical news. Jess ;)

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"Anyone who says "you need fundamentals to succeed" is wrong.

 

Fx is actually easier for a technical trade than stocks/futures because trends persist so well.

 

The advert quoted is just another way of getting suckers for yet another forex course. Classic sales technique, induce doubt, create a need, gets someone nodding, and provide the can't lose, give me dollars now solution."

 

 

If every trader thought exactly in the same way, your words may have some value. I’m not an expert here, but my little experience shows this market is accessible to everyone with some money in the pocket, a pc and a network. People know about news and especially this crisis times. Surely, trends are lead by economical news. Jess ;)

 

 

How about a little POLL on this ? It requires 100% honesty !

 

How many here who trade without fundamentals have won in each of last three months ?

 

How many that trades with both have done the same thing ?

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How about a little POLL on this ? It requires 100% honesty !

 

How many here who trade without fundamentals have won in each of last three months ?

 

How many that trades with both have done the same thing ?

We should probably try to stay on topic here and not turn this into fundamentals versus technicals :). Feel free to start another thread/poll and link it here, but keep this thread focused on the credibility of the losing statistic. :2c:

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In fact, because your statements were:

 

"Taking advantage of fundamentals is ALL that separates the pro trader from the wannabes."

"You CANNOT become a successful Forex trader ..."

 

 

Shouted. Whats more. Like the advert you were quoting (the one for a smelly little news trading "training" outfit).

 

 

In this case you only need one trader who is happy to state that they have traded forex without fundamentals for each of the last 3 months to prove you wrong. I don't trade forex so I can't ... but I'm sure that someone can.

 

For that purpose I nominate Wasp who posts here and who has been explicit about both is purely technical method of trading forex and his success this year. You will have to excuse him the last few weeks as he did so well that he stopped for the year and went on holiday (Well done old boy :))

 

 

The best bit I like from that trash advert was: "Henry becomes a professional trader. You never see him frequenting Forex discussion forums, or online trade rooms, because he’s too busy making a fortune in his live account…"

 

Clearly Henry hasn't discovered that you don't have to watch the market every single moment of the day to be able to trade profitably. Perhaps its that the scammer with the advert doesn't want Henry to go to a trading room and discover that he's just been taken. Like most who fall for the "make a fortune with forex" messages.

 

LMAO. :spam:

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I’ve realized you can’t focus just in a particular analysis, I think technical and fundamental may help us as traders. Indicators, tendencies, and logical facts are interesting to study, but forex is made also by people. Then, I guess news and events in the world and especially in the economy make us think, wonder and take decisions. Let us know your thoughts,. Jess ;)

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:cool:

In fact, because your statements were:

 

"Taking advantage of fundamentals is ALL that separates the pro trader from the wannabes."

"You CANNOT become a successful Forex trader ..."

 

 

Shouted. Whats more. Like the advert you were quoting (the one for a smelly little news trading "training" outfit).

 

 

In this case you only need one trader who is happy to state that they have traded forex without fundamentals for each of the last 3 months to prove you wrong. I don't trade forex so I can't ... but I'm sure that someone can.

 

For that purpose I nominate Wasp who posts here and who has been explicit about both is purely technical method of trading forex and his success this year. You will have to excuse him the last few weeks as he did so well that he stopped for the year and went on holiday (Well done old boy :))

 

 

The best bit I like from that trash advert was: "Henry becomes a professional trader. You never see him frequenting Forex discussion forums, or online trade rooms, because he’s too busy making a fortune in his live account…"

 

Clearly Henry hasn't discovered that you don't have to watch the market every single moment of the day to be able to trade profitably. Perhaps its that the scammer with the advert doesn't want Henry to go to a trading room and discover that he's just been taken. Like most who fall for the "make a fortune with forex" messages.

 

LMAO. :spam:

 

With respect for your view !

 

I am a real forex trader. I am not selling anything here or anywhere else.

 

Is the Stat misleading ? What if it is ! The only point I make is that based on 5 years of hands on experience and trading by using the fundamentals + the technicals + understanding when the perception is not the reality leads to winning results.

 

Perhaps some technical FX traders win ? Great ! Whatever works for you. I can teach someone with the right pyschological profile to win at forex BUT not by using only technicals.

 

By knowing that the FED would CUT 75 basis points I had an edge. Look at the movements after the CUT !

 

The Charts did not show it !

 

How did I know ? Well it was not a 100% certainty BUt it was about 75% so I knew that the cut would send the US Dollar Index down. When the ECB later on again went from Hawkish to Dovish as to more CUTS the EUR/USD reversed !

 

Again NO CHARTS gave a hint to that change again in direction !

 

MY EDGE ... Understanding the fundamentals using technicals for entry and exit along with being aware of ONE WORD that can change PERCEPTION which then changes Fundamentals.

 

That is my point of view. You are welcome to yours.

 

Good weekend Folks !!!

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    • A custom Semi-Log Scale Oscillator indicator is now available for MT5 on Metaquotes website and directly in the MT5 platform. https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/114705 This indicator is an anchored semi-logarithmic scale oscillator. A logarithmic scale is widely used by professional data scientists to more accurately map information collected throughout a timeframe, in the same way that MT5 maps out price data. In fact, the underlying logic of this indicator was freely obtained from an overseas biotech scientist. A log-log chart displays logarithmic values on both the x (horizontal) and y (vertical) axes, which generally produces a straight line that points up, down, or remains flat. A straight line is not very useful for trading markets because such a straight line is so smoothed that actual price values that appear over time are very far away from the line study. In contrast, a semi-log chart is only logged on one axis--generally, the y axis. Such a semi-log chart is well suited for trading markets because the time (x) axis is preserved in its original form while at the same time, providing a graduated y scale where the distance between price increments progressively increases as price rises higher (and decreases as price falls lower). This allows us to establish a zero level for a low price, clearly view trends on straighter angles, and clearly observe amplified price spikes at high prices. Accordingly, this indicator employs a semi-log scale on the y axis only. This indicator is anchored because it allows you to specify a start time for calculation of price bars. The settings are as follows: Year.Month.Day Hour:Minute - defaults to 1970.01.01 00:01 - if left on default setting, the indicator automatically detects the earliest price bar in chart history--even where the year 1970 is not in history. Notes appear in the indicator settings window. Size of first pip step to log - defaults to 135 - this default is suitable for higher timeframes such a MN1 (monthly), while 5 is suitable for lower timeframes such as M1 (minute). Ultimately, optimal settings will depend on the timeframe that you attach the indicator to, the level of price volatility within that timeframe, and start time that you choose. Remember... The semi-log formula calculates from low to high, so your start time must always be a major swing low. Again, notes appear in the indicator settings window. The standard (built-in) MT5 indicators that can be applied to the "Previous indicator's data" can be applied to this indicator. Indicator lines (indicator buffers) can be called with iCustom in Expert Advisors created by Expert Advisor builder software or custom coded Expert Advisors. The log scale Open, High, Low, and Close prices are buffers: No empty values; and No repainting.
    • A custom Gann Candles indicator is now available for MT5 on the Metaquotes website and directly in the MT5 platform. https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/126398 This Gann Candles indicator incorporates a series of W.D. Gann's strategies into a single trading indicator. Gann was a legendary trader who lived from 1878 to 1955. He started out as a cotton farmer and started trading at age 24 in 1902. His strategies included geometry, astronomy, astrology, times cycles, and ancient math. Although Gann wrote several books, none of them contain all of his strategies so it takes years of studying to learn them. He was also a devout scholar of the Bible and the ancient Greek and Egyptian cultures, and he was a 33rd degree Freemason of the Scottish Rite. In an effort to simplify what I believe are the best of Gann's strategies, I reduced them into one indicator that simply colors your preexisting price bars when those strategies are in-sync versus out-of-sync. This greatly reduces potential chart clutter. Also, I reduced the number of input settings down to only two: FastFilter, and SlowFilter Both FastFilter and SlowFilter must be set to 5 or more, as noted in the Inputs tab upon attaching the indicator to your chart. Gann Candles works on regular time-based charts (M5, M15, M20, etc.) and custom charts (Renko, range bars, etc.). The indicator does not repaint. When using the default settings, blue candles form bullish price patterns, gray candles form flat (sideways) price patterns, and white candles form bearish price patterns. The simplest way to trade Gann Candles is to buy at the close of a blue candle and exit at the close of a gray candle, and then sell at the close of a white candle and exit at the close of a gray candle.
    • A custom Anchored VWAP with Standard Deviation Bands indicator for MT5 is now available on the Metaquotes website and directly through the MT5 platform. https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/99389 The volume weighted average price indicator is a line study indicator that shows in the main chart window of MT5. The indicator monitors the typical price and then trading volume used to automatically push the indicator line toward heavily traded prices. These prices are where the most contracts (or lots) have been traded. Then those weighted prices are averaged over a look back period, and the indicator shows the line study at those pushed prices. The indicator in this post allows the trader to set the daily start time of that look back period. This indicator automatically shows 5 daily look back periods: the currently forming period, and the 4 previous days based on that same start time. For this reason, this indicator is intended for intraday trading only. The indicator automatically shows vertical daily start time separator lines for those days as well. Both typical prices and volumes are accumulated throughout the day, and processed throughout the day. Important update: v102 of this indicator allows you to anchor the start of the VWAP and bands to the most recent major high or low, even when that high or low appears in your chart several days ago. This is how institutional traders and liquidity providers often trade markets with the VWAP. This indicator also shows 6 standard deviation bands, similarly to the way that a Bollinger Bands indicator shows such bands. The trader is able to set 3 individual standard deviation multiplier values above the volume weighted average price line study, and 3 individual standard deviation multiplier values below the volume weighted average price line study. Higher multiplier values will generate rapidly expanding standard deviation bands because again, the indicator is cumulative. The following indicator parameters can be changed by the trader in the indicator Inputs tab: Volume Type [defaults to: Real volume] - Set to Tick volume for over-the-counter markets such as most forex markets. Real volume is an additional setting for centralized markets such as the United States Chicago Mercantile Exchange. VWAP Start Hour [defaults to: 07] - Set according to broker's or broker-dealer's MT5 server time in 24 hour format. For example, in the New York, United States time zone, 07 is approximately the London, United Kingdom business open hour. VWAP Start Minute [defaults to: 00] - Set according to broker's or broker-dealer's MT5 server time in 24 hour format. For example, 00 is on the hour with no delay of minutes within that hour. StdDev Multiplier 1 [defaults to: 1.618] - Set desired standard deviation distance between the volume weighted average price line study and its nearest upper and lower bands. For example, 1.618 is a basic Fibonacci ratio. Some traders prefer 1.000 or 1.250 here. StdDev Multiplier 2 [defaults to: 3.236] - Set desired standard deviation distance between the volume weighted average price line study and its middle upper and lower bands. For example, 3.236 is 1.618 (above) + 1.618. Some traders prefer 2.000 or 1.500 here. StdDev Multiplier 3 [defaults to: 4.854] - Set desired standard deviation distance between the volume weighted average price line study and its furthest upper and lower bands. For example, 4.854 is 1.618 (above) + 3.236 (above). Some traders prefer 3.000 or 2.000 here. VWAP Color [defaults to: Aqua] - Set desired VWAP line study color. This color automatically sets the color of the start time separators as well. SD1 Color [defaults to: White] - Set desired color of nearest upper and lower standard deviation lines. SD2 Color [defaults to: White] - Set desired color of middle upper and lower standard deviation lines. SD3 Color [defaults to: White] - Set desired color of furthest upper and lower standard deviation lines. Just to clarify, popular standard deviation bands settings are: 1.618, 3.236, and 4.854; or 1.000, 2.000, and 3.000; or 1.250, 1.500, and 2.000. Examples of usage *: In a ranging (sideways) market, enter a trade at the extremes of the standard deviation bands (SD3) and exit when price returns to the VWAP line study. Trade between SD1Pos and SD1 Neg, alternately buying and selling from one standard deviation line to the other. In a trending (rising or falling) market, enter a buy when a price bar opens above the VWAP line study, and exit at the nearest standard deviation band above (SD1Pos). Optionally, repeat the same trade but substitute SD1Pos for the VWAP, and SD2Pos for SD1. Reverse for sell; or Trade all lines (VWAP, SD1Pos, SD2Pos, and SD3Pos) in the same way. Again, reverse for sell. Indicator lines (indicator buffers) can be called with iCustom in Expert Advisors created by Expert Advisor builder software or custom coded Expert Advisors: No empty values; and No repainting.
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