Taking the Blinders Off the Trading Mind

[SIUYA 11]

sorry Mitsubishi but for me to actually believe anything you say or for me to take you seriously I would have to take off my blinkers and see the world from your point of view rather than my own - regardless of any facts. , and then we both might be wrong.

 

its always better to change the system from the inside rather than standing on the outside throwing rocks in.....plus then once you get your ideas/views established as the mainstream, then surprise surprise you then become the mainstream....what then.

 

 

Personally - history repeats, nothing is new, it was not better back in the day,

I want the freedom for the bunnies and the slugs to thrive - it creates opportunities when you take off the blinkers.

[MightyMouse 12]

"taking the Blinders off of the Trading mind" presupposes that there is a trading mind in the first place.

 

Only a trader can have a "Trading Mind". I would bet that a psychologist could help a trader with his "trading mind" if he was a trader in the first place. I define a trader as someone who knows how to take money from the markets. Psychology cannot help someone take money from a market when he doesn't know how to take money from the market in the first place. Everyone does not have a "trading mind" imbedded within.

 

Desire to trade is not enough. Generally the desire to trade is developed by the myths that circulate about trading and the fantasy of riches, easy money, etc. Those with a desire to trade only are likely leading down the wrong path and a psychologist who is unable to distinguish between a trader and a wannabe trader is not doing his patient justice.

 

It is foolish to trash the entire discipline of psychology, since there are numerous instances where psychologists have helped people with their issues. I do not think that a psychologist can help someone be something that they are not, and as far as trading is concerned, a lot of hopeful traders are not traders. To assume that psychology is a waste since it either can't help you or you do not need help or you can solve your own issues is simply small minded.

[zdo 20]

from a friend ‘out there’ – Mitsubishi, during these years, be careful what you let ‘crystallize’ in this stage of your life… wishing you all the best. zdo

[zdo 20]

After all that's been said, at this point in this thread I can honestly say I wish Rande's article really was "Psychological"

But it's not, it's 'baptist budhism'

 

from the article

 

Re-examining the World You Believe You Live In

 

…why don’t all traders simply examine and change the beliefs that shape their understanding of the world and of their interaction in the markets? …

 

… two traders who trade side by side … share the same methodology, the same indicators, and the same platform… difference between them is that both brought different beliefs about the management of uncertainty to their trading…

[SIUYA 11]

So Mitsubishi - forget all your ideas about slugs and bunnies and politics for a minute. (LOL)....

can I ask a few simple questions....

who do you go to/what do you do if you need a car repaired?

who do you go to/what do you do if you get sick and dont feel well?

who do you go to/what do you do if you house is broken into?

who do you go to/what do you do if your golf swing is not getting you the results you expect/want?

[SIUYA 11]

Why? cos you're losing that debate?

...........

Do i win a chocolate bunny?

 

what debate.....

 

and no chocolate bunny sorry as (and I will add a trading reference to help you with where I was going)

1....you clearly have enough money to buy your own as rather than getting a car repaired you try and buy another one

(like many traders rather than repair what works and might just need to be repaired/improved they often go back to the showroom and purchase the newest greatest thing in the hope it might work better than what they have)

 

2....i am sure such things as cancer, MS, heart disease, diabetes could be cured with a good nights sleep.

(too often people ignore the symptoms of something that only once it is too late do they take notice, much like trading and repeating the same mistakes going to bed to wake up and still have the same problems)

 

3....there is no such thing as a burglar proof house.....the question what do you do if it happens. (as in trading there are no certainties and its usually a question of what happens when, too often its assumed nothing will go wrong, but what happens if it does.)

 

4....unfortunately rather than using another sport/task/skill/process to understand, you put it in a basket and dismiss it. (I used golf, and I am sure it is like many sports and trading - 90% of it goes on in your head, (and maybe thats why you dont play golf??? , it is always interesting to see peoples responses to golf as often those that dont like it just say it, those who usually really hate it, and vilify it with a passion such as yours have often tried and failed at it.....) (I try and fail but I still really like it)

 

Point is Mitsubishi - using anybody who has expertise in a certain area is worthwhile when and if you need them - to completely dismiss out of hand their worth and skills and then use your viewpoint in the world to rant is a rather interesting and blinkered way to see the world. Looking at the benefits v costs is a fair way to measure things but when you use biased slants to justify you pre concieved ideas is exactly why taking the blinkers off is an apt way to see things......you (or others) may or may not need help in this.

 

(ps....for you its all BS anyways if I recall )

[SIUYA 11]

Gotta quote the old doc again,'cos while he is studying us,we are studying him.

So he's fascinated by us eh? Well, some of you folks seem to let many things slip right past your very own eyes without a moments consideration.The doc just needs to keep playing his role and most of you just swallow it hook line and sinker.Never gonna be short of customers is he?. He (or she) can just make up any old word you've never heard of,or phrase-Attention Deficit Disorder..Hyper active...Productability and create a condition that needs treating.A syndrome to explain something he needs dollars to cure.

Productability? that's the predictability of US farming production,except that i just made it up.

Exactly what the hell is so fascinating about human behaviour? Haven't you read somewhere how sad and predictable we are as a species? But why are we fascinating to him?

I'll tell you why DOLLARS You see,if he can convince us that we are more complex than we think,and that we need to be cured he can satisfy the BASIC HUMAN INSTINCTS

 

sounds you might be a little envious Rande was worked out a way to monetise something he is fascinated in......whats wrong with that?

 

The need to be understood,loved,listened to,respected,appreciated,employed,safe...jeez we need a lot to keep us happy don't we? And if we are missing any of those pieces,only the Doc can tell us why.Really? Only the doc can invent a mental crutch,excuse to explain why we're not getting what we think we deserve...............

.....................

Put a human being in any conceivable situation you can possibly imagine and i absolutely defy you not to predict how it will behave.Just think about it for more than just a few seconds ....for christ.:doh:

And get this,the doc has been 'fascinated' with this stuff for years:rofl:

 

So glad you have all the answers....why not write the one and only definitive book on it and reveal it to the world..... and what then do you do for those that dont have the answers or find your answers dont work with/for them?

 

I see by your actual thought out answers to the questions still never actually involved ever actually asking anybody for help, now there is nothing really wrong with that......

Guess this is just where we differ,

 

I was taught early on, and its actually a good question to ask a lot of highly (not just very) successful people what one of the keys/secrets to their success is....it is not often "I did it myself, " or "if you want a job done - you do it yourself".....no in fact many say - "find someone who is smarter than you, with expertise in something you dont have and get them to do the job".

 

maybe just maybe Rande is smarter than all of us and he gives his money to those that do and then does something that he enjoys and is fascinated by and actually gets to charge money for it......wow....who would have thought.

 

(on many other things we might agree - especially when it comes the the UK and the welfare mentality that exists here, I could tell you a great con man story here where the police said "we cant do anything" (my partner was the victim I reported it and we had names, address, bank account details of the criminals) and so nothing happened and yet I received 3 phone calls asking if we wanted counseling over the trauma of being a victim of crime - after telling them I needed counselling for the fact that nothing was done they got the picture :helloooo: - so I know where you are coming from)

 

Anyway - a new week beckons - I have said my fill -thanks for the fun Mitsubishi and dont forget as mother used to say - it never hurts to ask.

[johnw 10]

Well,a new week beckons indeed and i'm sensing the hints that i should raise my game if i'm to convert the 'wets'

Naturally, my initial reaction is to lower my game and give the doc and his supporters some more ammunition.Why lower my game? Well because that is actually harder,

i mean,you try saying at a dinner party,just for a joke,that you love nazis.Mentally,it is very difficult if you don't actually believe it,same as it is difficult to physically put your hand in the fire.

Similarly,it is difficult for anyone to change their view on something,no matter how convincing the argument.When was the last time you persuaded someone,anyone to say ''actually,you know what,i'm an asshole,and you're right,Tony Blair did have very valid reasons to be 'convinced' that Iraq had WMD they could launch in just 45 minutes.

Just one reason why i hate politicians is because these folks make a career out of putting their hands in the fire,mentally speaking.

Now,some folks here believe that the world is what it is,has always been that way,and good luck to anyone who can successfully carve their initials into the steaming lump of turd.I think we know where i am on that one.

;;;;;;;

0Ooo

 

Why not lift your game and take a real trade for once ..... if nothing else it might make you feel good about yourself

[johnw 10]

What happened to GM mitsubishi ?

Did i upset your equilibrium john?

Well i see you got yourself a new jacket at least.What was it..did the Oxfam shop have a sale?

Gotta say though, the jacket doesn't suit your style or does it?

Funny thing psychology.My unerring instinct about people who are overly and inappropriately polite hiding a more sinister side yet again proves correct.Thank you for showing the audience a '' fascinating '' side of your self

.Most entertaining i'm sure

 

 

gm mitsubishi,

 

I see you have trouble dealing with the unexpected .... somehow, I thought you might.

You will need to deal with this problem and 'take your blinkers off' and allow your frustration levels to drop before you enter trading.

 

Otherwise the Markets will make dog tucker of you and your account.

 

You wrote a rather good post #100.

Why don't you re-read it, in the sense that you wrote it to yourself... you could be in danger of learning something....

[Rande Howell 10]

MIKE TYSON- WINNER OR LOSER?

 

A few posts back i stated that a loser is a loser.Nobody challenged that statement.

What sort of person needs to visit a psychologist? i need an answer to that question,since,as you know,i wouldn't contemplate it myself.

Are there more shades of grey,rather than just black and white statements like a winner is a winner and a loser is a loser? Can a loser become a winner and a winner become a loser?

How do we quantify it? money? happiness? Who should ultimately make the judgement,society or the individual?

 

Logically,the doc must believe that a loser can become a winner,or believe that all his clients are potential winners regardless of how we label them now. And i say ALL because he stated that there is not a point where he says '' i can't fix you''. He leaves that to the least qualified one- the patient.And if he thinks that the patient knows better than the doc,then what does the patient need the doc for in the first place?

It's difficult,from my point of view,to prevent the 'feint' whiff of bullshit wafting by the therapy couch.

 

Now,for those who love it when i get into rant mode (and there's quite a few) don't worry,i'm not going to mellow out and start rubbing my chin and nodding my head politely while re-calibrating my bullshit meter in the face of ill thought out,sheep mentality,responses from the peanut gallery.

Already,some participants have slunk away muttering under their breath,and SIUYA has had his fill,probably deciding that i'm entrenched beyond redemption.

 

At the risk of Rande concluding that my psychosis runs deeper than he previously thought.ie i'm a schizophrenc/multi personality type,i'm giving him yet one more opportunity to say something beyond ''i refer the honourable gentleman to the hideous jumble of words i spewed on page 1 of this thread''

It's simply not enough for him to patronisingly and pompously pronounce that he finds the ensuing discussion here ''fascinating''

Ripleys' alien was fascinating to the ''goddam robot'' but that was the least of her problems

A refusal to engage with me is contary to the spirit of TL and will force some of the waverers in the debate to re-evaluate,not the field of psychology,but Randes' role in it.

Right now Rande is doing the trading discussion equivalent of stating that the MACD is the holy grail and when challenged,merely repeating the statement,then saying the obvious responses are ''fascinating''

Regardless of his opinion of me,play up and play the game,,,or, put up or shut up.So far you got the shut up part down to a tee,

Presently i can only conclude he's hoping my detractors here will settle the debate for him while he hides in his surgery stroking a white cat saying ''no mitsubishi, i expect you to die'':missy:

There are legitimate questions at the beginning of this post...we're all waiting.

 

MIKE TYSON- Undisputed champion....prisoner.. bankruptcy.. convert to Islam

 

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. And you can't even lead a mule to the water." Old Southern saying

 

I see no reason to engage someone whose biases are set in concrete. It's kinda like trying to have a constuctive conversation between a staunch Republican and a liberal Democrat or a pro-lifer with a choice person. It's not a place to invest your energy. I do however wish you well.

 

Rande Howell

[zdo 20]

From the article

 

The assumption that emotions are in your head is dangerous to the development of a peak performance state of mind...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The message you have entered is far too short... please add more bullsht

[RealDemo 10]

You'll be glad to know I've analysed you too MB.

 

I've diagnosed you as having something called the "God Complex", don't panic we're not off down that bottomless pit, it's got nothing to do with religion, well not in your case anyway.

 

It's pretty common, I have bouts of it myself.

 

It's all about the persons inability to accept that they may be wrong.

 

The complexity of most things, let alone the human brain, is beyond the limits of understanding of your average Joe, that's me, that's you, and that's Rande, but still the hubris flows like wine.

 

The rather sad side effect of this unacceptability is that the person becomes completely blind to their ill considered position, the reality of the situation as seen by most onlookers has passed them by, and rather like the drunk uncle at a wedding, they will inevitably make a complete tit of themselves as everybody shuffles uncomfortably away.

 

....of course I may be wrong

[Rande Howell 10]

From the article

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The message you have entered is far too short... please add more bullsht

 

Emotions are biological. They take over mind and perception. Fear is triggered when a threat to the continuance of life is threaten. It arouses as chemistry an provokes the feeling of impending doom. It is at this moment that thinking and perception is contaminated. Once the feeing of certainty of the fear is present in the body, the mind of the trader is toast.

Rande Howell

[RealDemo 10]

I see. And exactly how will i move from my present position unless somebody here,particularly and most especially the doc starts answering the questions? Because if he could just do that,the nature of this debate could evolve,couldn't it?

 

If you could maybe understand that this is not a debate that might help.

 

The human brain is anything but beyond the limits of the average Joe. And Rande is not the average Joe.

 

It obviously is, this is what I'm talking about. Do you know people with whom you could discuss the activities carried out by the Thalamus? I don't. Shall we discuss which parts of the fusiform gyrus are face-selective? another time maybe....

Rande is a Joe, excuse me if I'm wrong but I don't think he's been outstanding in his field.

 

Rande[/color] believes we are not worth his energy.I am not the only one on this side of the chess board (the white pieces naturally ) therefore,i am not the only one that he believes is beneath him. There's the rest of the 99% who have got very real,not imagined,issues with the 1%. And i ,just like them,will not allow these people to carry on with business as usual.

 

The world is changing my friend,very very slowly.We'll probably all be dead before we see any big changes,but if man is to survive we must evolve into something beyond what we presently have.My suspicion is this change may be decided for us somehow. And it will have nothing to do with God.

 

All life is reflected in the market.To win we must lose the ego,be prepared to change our view,and adapt and learn.I get that.That is why failing at trading is not an option for me.I want to evolve as a human being.I want to be humble.I want to appreciate how blessed i am compared to someone who lives in Zimbabwe.It's a lifelong journey.

How many of the slugs at the top share my world view?

We are not going to progress by writing new laws,or by bombing the Middle East.We will only progress by changing our morality.

Now you tell me,how many here are prepared to do that?

 

.....oh now you want to get back to the topic, after having a wander round wills mothers you're accusing me of going off subject? :crap:

 

You're not willing to listen, you're not willing to compromise, you're not willing to invest anything other than feeble diatribes, so I'll leave you with this, I'm done.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUd8XA-5HEk]Laurie Santos - YouTube[/ame]

[Rande Howell 10]

Actually i'm not glad .It's off topic.This thread is not about me,It's not about what my world view is.It's not even about the ''complexity of most things''

Let me drag you,and everyone here back to the issue and the issue is ;

 

How is a psychologist qualified to help someone,anyone,extract money from the market?

My belief is that he/she isn't.I'm willing to listen to Rande's explanation.I'm willing to listen to any other psychologist.I'm willing to listen to any trader who feels that a psychologist helped them do something they could not do for themselves.

So far the silence is deafening.

Attacking or passing judgement on mitsubishi doesn't fool the audience here.

And Rande's behaviour says a lot more about Rande than it will ever say about what mitsubishi may or may not belief

And remember,he's also never made or lost a dime in the market himself

 

I learned awhile back that communicating with highly biased people really is not a good investment of my time. However, To anyone who exploring how to build an effective mindset for trading, I invite them to begin evaluation by attending one of our free webinars to start with. One of our affiliates is having one later this month. From there, if you are interested further, you can sign up for a free consult with me. As part of that you are also given references of traders who have gone through my training. This would allow a trader actually looking for answers to ground their assessments in real experience. It costs no money to go through the evaluation process and it opens you to exploring how to develop your potential as a trader.

 

By the way, I'm curious, have you ever had a problem with revenge, over, or impulsive trading? You sure have the markers for the behaviors demonstrated in other domains. Just wondering if the tendency generalized to other areas of your life.

 

Rande Howell

Index of /

[johnw 10]

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. And you can't even lead a mule to the water." Old Southern saying

 

I see no reason to engage someone whose biases are set in concrete. It's kinda like trying to have a constuctive conversation between a staunch Republican and a liberal Democrat or a pro-lifer with a choice person. It's not a place to invest your energy. I do however wish you well.

 

Rande Howell

 

Yes, I agree, there is no future in this thread and so I shall say bye bye.

 

mitsubishi is a glowing example of a person who has allowed his intelligence (or academic side) to overly compensate for his under developed emotional side.

 

I imagine that without the necessary balance in his life, he views the world through a pervading veil of fear ... everything he experiences is tinted a shade of dirty brown at best.

His attempts at trading have amplified this imbalance, simply because there is nobody to blame but himself and fear prevents him from seeing himself.... this is evidenced by his postings as he tries to drag the Readers into mitsubishi's world and punish them for his own woeful attempts at trading ....

 

All in all, mitsubishi is not a pretty sight and he faces an increasingly painful future ....

that is why Zdo posted his advice as a friend "be careful what you let ‘crystallize’ in this stage of your life" .... it is an excellent reminder to all of us.

[Rande Howell 10]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUd8XA-5HEk]Laurie Santos - YouTube[/ame]

 

This is so funny and so accurate. Laurie Santos is demonstrating the power of the mammalian brain to influence the high order thinking of the neo-cortex. In trading, not only do you have to overcome the biases built into the emotional brain, but also the learning (adaptation) as the brain is shaped in its formalative period (fear of making a mistake). Learning to unravel the greed (fear of missing out) and fear (fear of loss) embedded in our evolutionary past is about re-inventing the fused relationship between uncertainty, fear, and risk.

 

I think I'm going to start asking that traders put a picture of a monkey near their screens so they can remind themselves that they are biased to percieve from their monkey brain. A little humbleness could be a good thing.

 

Rande Howell

[SILVER 10]

The initial text gives an interesting reading.Maybe if it was written in lay-men jargon one would find more bits and pieces interesting.What I find difficult to understand is the part that describes "reality" as indivitual reality,that sounds somewhat like when measuring in science the observed phenomenon is changed by that very measuring process itself and can therefore not be measured neutrally. If this was used as a guideline we still had no idea about things going on around us.On another note,I dont see fear as much as a negative as I do with hesitation.Fear to me is a sign that I am on the wrong side of the market as is hope.

[zdo 20]

Hey peeps the term 'mammilian brain' is acceptable,

but 'monkey brain' is offensive and hurtful

 

For one, I doubt there are very many monkeys on this planet that want to short the ndx's as much as I do right now... and the ones that do would probably have as much patience as most humans about timing it, and could remain remain more detached from either 'positive' or 'negative' results in the 'trees' than most humans, and could almost certainly recover from a serious lost faster than most humans...

... we're getting too PC to be able to compare emotional vulnerabilities btwn each other / within the humans ? ... so we now have to go out and compare and dis the monkeys ?

///

 

From the article

...Your brain, unless you significantly redevelop it...

What does "redevelop it" mean?

[Rande Howell 10]

What does "redevelop it" mean?

 

Reorganization of the set of beliefs (and the assumptions) that have become embedded as meaning within an emotion and the pattern recognition and triggering that are triggered automatically into perception when the emotion is active.

 

A perceptual map wired historically to "trade not to lose" because the assumption it is built around is "the world is a dangerous place (markets also) would have to be deconstructed and reorganized to assume another belief (I am a manager of uncertainty and have an edge toward positive probability). Beliefs are wired based on adaptation and developmental moments and fortunately can be examined and changed over time with the advent of emotional regulation and mindfulness.

 

Rande Howell

[SIUYA 11]

This advice is freely available constantly in very wide number of sources.So now i have to ask myself ''what exactly is the psychologist bringing to the table.?''

 

Possibly techniques to effective put into practice the very often heard advice maybe?

 

Presumably,your client has heard this advice before,but still it has not helped them.

Would it be a reasonable assumption to make that it is not just the advice itself that is important,but also the source of that advice?

 

Or another reason could be that they hear the advice but dont know how to effectively put into practice maybe????

 

If there isn't more to it than that,then we are back to the MILGRAM STUDY 1974 where people trust the men in the white coats just a little too much.

 

yes...but what where the results - I mean the real statistical results of that often quoted/mis quoted study..... I dont think EVERYBODY acted the same way. Some did to varying degrees.....

 

and more importantly ""The social psychology of this century reveals a major lesson: often it is not so much the kind of person a man is as the kind of situation in which he finds himself that determines how he will act." –Stanley Milgram, 1974

 

so maybe people might need help to place themselves into the situation .....???

and maybe some people are naturally wired in particular ways???

 

Most shocking to many was that what was predicted was in fact far from what happened - particularly topical to trading for many.....and yet it also showed there were no certaintites- amazing what experiments in psychology and being fascinated in the human condition can actually show us

 

Either way its not as black and white

 

(bored before my holiday Mitsubishi) :crap:

[gosu 10]

* * *

 

A perceptual map wired historically to "trade not to lose" because the assumption it is built around is "the world is a dangerous place (markets also) would have to be deconstructed and reorganized to assume another belief (I am a manager of uncertainty and have an edge toward positive probability). Beliefs are wired based on adaptation and developmental moments and fortunately can be examined and changed over time with the advent of emotional regulation and mindfulness.

 

Rande Howell

 

Rande, this is worse than tripe. First of all, a "trade not to lose" approach is quite good. I liken it to a "drive not to crash" approach to operating a car. Defensive trading, just like defensive driving, is based on the fact that you cannot control the traffic around you and avoiding accidents is a function of avoiding and anticipating risky situations.

 

Secondly, to people who do not know what they are doing, the market IS a dangerous place (to their account). This doesn't change by deconstructing or reorganizing anything to adopt a belief of "I am a manager of uncertainty and have an edge toward positive probability" and gosh dang it people like me.

 

Your biggest weakness is that you cannot discern a sound trading approach from an unsound one and so you make the assumption that the person coming to you has a sound trading approach already in place. That's quite convenient for you but far from the reality.

 

A sound trading approach cannot be bought, sold, or given away, nor can it be obtained by showing up to a class. It is developed over a period of time in SUCCESSFUL stages, from the most rudimentary where participation is limited to more and more participation as knowledge, skill, and experience are acquired. In this way, there is no separation between the trading methodology and the "psychology" part of it. The methodology is effective for the trader because his trading mind has been built on it through gaining knowledge, skill, and experience, not by adopting "beliefs" about uncertainty or whatever.

[MightyMouse 12]

Hey peeps the term 'mammilian brain' is acceptable,

but 'monkey brain' is offensive and hurtful

 

For one, I doubt there are very many monkeys on this planet that want to short the ndx's as much as I do right now... and the ones that do would probably have as much patience as most humans about timing it, and could remain remain more detached from either 'positive' or 'negative' results in the 'trees' than most humans, and could almost certainly recover from a serious lost faster than most humans...

... we're getting too PC to be able to compare emotional vulnerabilities btwn each other / within the humans ? ... so we now have to go out and compare and dis the monkeys ?

///

 

From the article

 

What does "redevelop it" mean?

 

When your wife gives birth to a child and you see her breast feed, the distinction between human and mammal gets blurred. We have not evolved much from our mammalian origin.

[gosu 10]

When your wife gives birth to a child and you see her breast feed, the distinction between human and mammal gets blurred. * * *

 

The distinction becomes clear again when the husband becomes aware of the urge to suck on the other nipple.

[SIUYA 11]

Rande, this is worse than tripe. First of all, a "trade not to lose" approach is quite good. I liken it to a "drive not to crash" approach to operating a car. Defensive trading, just like defensive driving, is based on the fact that you cannot control the traffic around you and avoiding accidents is a function of avoiding and anticipating risky situations.

 

what about those who have a fear of driving at all? So much so that they actually are such bad drivers when they do it they crash, or there are those that have no fear....they usually have the highest crash statistics (young men aged 16-26 say) Or those that do think they drive defensively but in reality have just been driving badly for 40 years.

 

While I agree a lot of what is said maybe tripe, (or maybe the way its written is obtuse) I also think that there is nothing wrong with accepting others have varying views and possibly applying probabbility to these views still accepts them, with a hint of - not for me, but I can see how for some it is needed.Much as you might for a trade.

Not everybody sees the markets the same, some have different issues for their personalities. So while the market is a dangerous place, you could also say, some markets are dangerous for some people. (bull markets wipe out bears, bear markets wipe out mean reversion types etc;)

 

Which is why your second point is such a good one

Your biggest weakness is that you cannot discern a sound trading approach from an unsound one and so you make the assumption that the person coming to you has a sound trading approach already in place. That's quite convenient for you but far from the reality.

 

and also I guess why I might sound like I am defending Rande (which by the way I am not- I am defending his right to teach and the idea that his ideas might be worth more than just dismissing out of hand - weather he is any good of not is a different matter)

 

Hence I do feel its probably only valid after you have reached a certain level of skill or knowledge, and you cant progress for some reason. Sports people do it, top managers do it, why not traders? (not for newbies - and yet what about all those failed child spots prodigies as they did not have the mental mechanisms to survive and thrive - evolution perhaps)

What happens when you reach a stage and have some mental block?

It seems what you are describing is exactly that....someone developing techniques to step up levels, to improve themselves.....can you say it has not been because they have not adopted or changed their beliefs.....if I recall rightly a lot of those market wizards blew up initially and then changed their actions.....you generally only do that because you change your beliefs about something, or the way you viewed something. Other less successful traders on forums also mention the same things before they became successful.

 

A sound trading approach cannot be bought, sold, or given away, nor can it be obtained by showing up to a class. It is developed over a period of time in SUCCESSFUL stages, from the most rudimentary where participation is limited to more and more participation as knowledge, skill, and experience are acquired. In this way, there is no separation between the trading methodology and the "psychology" part of it. The methodology is effective for the trader because his trading mind has been built on it through gaining knowledge, skill, and experience, not by adopting "beliefs" about uncertainty or whatever.

 

I do think a lot of it might be tripe and who wants old intestinal gut, but when prepared right anything can taste good and whose to say its not a delicacy to some.

(plus the nipple and breast feeding sideline - whoaa )

(Mitsubishi - heading to NY then skiing in Colarado - so glasses yes, but the goggle type - they have just finally had some snow, and a dump expected this weekend. My risk aversion to tree skiing/boarding is certainly increasing as I get older - maybe Rande could offer some advice - or maybe I just have to accept I will heal less easily and its no longer worth the risk. Its always fingers crossed you come back in one piece no matter the amount of preparation )