Taking the Blinders Off the Trading Mind

[Rande Howell 10]

After investing significant personal and financial resources into your commitment to trading, what stops you from breaking through to successful trading? Is it your methodology? Is it your platform? Or is it the way you interact with the markets through your methodology and platform?

 

Until you stop chasing trading success externally (believing that the right methodology, the right guru, or the next indicator “out there” will be the secret that transforms your trading) you will remain locked in a mindset that keeps trading success at a distance like a mirage in the desert. You know the potential is there, but it is never realized. Most traders stay stuck in this illusion until they have experienced significant pain that jars them into re-examining their beliefs - beliefs that stay beneath the radar of their awareness, but that torpedo the development of these traders' potential in trading.

 

Traders avoid dealing with these hidden self-limiting beliefs because they are uncomfortable to acknowledge. After a number of years wandering in the desert of their denial, vigorously holding on to the belief that success is “out there” in the form of things, traders either (1) continue the pain of losing as a way of life, (2) get out of trading, or (3) wake up to the understanding that they need to change themselves – not the outside world. This is the nature of a self-limiting belief.

 

The third option, that they must develop a different trading mind, opens the door to a new way of understanding the self and the world that the trader lives in. What does this world look like?

 

Re-examining the World You Believe You Live In

 

If beliefs are such an important part of successful trading, why don’t all traders simply examine and change the beliefs that shape their understanding of the world and of their interaction in the markets? It seems so simple, however "you can’t see what you can’t see". You, the trader, remain blind to the very self-limiting beliefs that keep you from moving to the next level. Yet these self-limiting beliefs are hidden in plain sight. You just haven’t developed the eyes to see them. Until mindful awareness is developed, the self-limiting beliefs operate in the shadows of your mind, out of sight of your capacity to change them.

 

When mindfulness is applied to trading, a powerful new understanding takes root. All perception of reality is observer-generated. This is the assumption that forces the trader to re-examine his or her beliefs from a different perspective. In this way of understanding the world you find yourself in, you live in worlds that are created by your beliefs. There is not a world “out there”. Based on the beliefs that you bring to life and trading, your world of experience is created. Change those beliefs on a biological response level and you change the way you use your methodology and platform to engage the markets.

 

As an example I worked with two traders who trade side by side. They share the same methodology, the same indicators, and the same platform. The difference between them is that both brought different beliefs about the management of uncertainty to their trading. One became successful while the other continued losing. They shared everything outwardly, but as they evolved as traders, they did not share the same beliefs about themselves and the beliefs they brought to trading in the markets.

 

One had an AHA! moment and became open to the notion that all perception of reality is observer-generated. This allowed him to move from a mindset that tried to predict what the market was going to do to a mindset that became comfortable managing probabilities (and their probabilities) detached from a biologically-driven predisposition for certainty. The other trader held on, entranced by his biologically-driven need for certainty, to the notion that there was a reality “out there” full of objects that he could define rationally and therefore, could allow him to predict with relative certainty what the market was going to do next. In his perception, there was a set of rules, once discovered (read, the Holy Grail), that would produce certainty in the face of ambiguity. He was held in a mindset that was organized around a belief in the certainty of his feelings.

 

The trader who opened himself to change stepped out of an ingrained way of seeing the world to a new way of seeing and interacting with the world that allowed him to trade from a new position, the management of chaos or the lack of certainty – of an observer-created world. An acceptance that chaos and uncertainty are simply part of the human experience of life. Although this was a difficult shift in his mindset, it also opened the door for him to manage uncertainty rather than look for certainty. Do you see the difference here? The one who stayed stuck in his old ways kept looking for the Holy Grail that would allow him to predict reality.

 

This is where many traders stay pinned down by their blindness. They keep believing (in the face of continuing losses) that there is a world “out there” that can be defined and manipulated. Certainly the rise of rationalism and the scientific method laid down the assumptions that reality could be defined as objects “out there” for many centuries – until quantum theory blew the certainty of Newtonian physics away like smoke from an extinguished match.

 

In the same way that rationalism and Newtonian physics breaks down at a certain moment, so does the mindset (and the beliefs creating the mindset) that you bring to trading. The order of thinking that you brought to trading worked in domains outside of trading. But when that order of thinking was applied to trading, it was no longer capable of producing effective action on a consistent basis. At that point, the assumptions of your beliefs have to be re-examined and re-invented. In trading, the art and science of trading is more akin to the uncertainty of Heisenberg and the "observer-created" world of Schrödinger than to objective reality. (So much for an ordered world to believe in!)

 

Re-examining Emotion and Thought

 

Have you ever heard the expression: “You must leave your emotions at the door when you trade.”? It seems like common sense. Bringing emotions to trading is risky business. But not bringing emotions to trading is simply not possible. Without emotions, there is no thinking (or life for that matter). Even what most traders aspire to trade from (dispassion or impartiality) is, in actuality, an emotional state that leads to a particular kind of thinking that is highly effective for trading success.

 

The neo-cortex in humans grew out of other older brain systems that are emotional in nature. Because of this, thinking and emotion are inexorably linked. All thinking is emotional-state-dependent. Once a trader wakes up to this highly validated assumption from neuro-biology, emotion becomes something to manage and use to build a way of thinking (observing) that allows the possibility of effective trading.

 

This may sound far fetched, but consider your trading and your state of mind while trading. Before the threat of real loss (risk) becomes palpable (entering the trade), the mind that you, as a trader, bring to evaluating set-ups is commonly rational. With no threat in view, the emotional state of fear is not present to influence your thinking. But as the trade warms up and confirmation is evident by your indicators or methodology, the chance of real monetary loss becomes cogent.

 

Then it is time to find the entry point and pull the trigger. The moment is now. Suddenly the perceived uncertainty and risk becomes a disruption to the logical and impartial state of mind that guided your thinking minutes before. What is brought to the forefront of awareness is no longer management of uncertainty by a rational mind, but a mind now driven by fear. The closer the entry point, the greater the uncertainty, the more confusion, and finally fear triggers and dominates your mind’s thinking. The trade passes, and you feel relief, and later, disappointment. Then as you review your trading, you wonder what on earth possessed your ability to think rationally and act from logic. The emotional thinking shifted from rationally-based thinking to fear-based thinking. Each emotional state (rational and fear) drove the kind of thinking that was possible for you in any given moment.

 

The assumption that emotions are in your head is dangerous to the development of a peak performance state of mind. Emotions are biological. They and your body are one and the same. And your brain and the emergent mind are rooted in that biology. Your brain/mind, by its predisposition, seeks the certainty of pattern-recognition and reacts to uncertainty as the fear of death – something to be avoided. When triggered instinctually, uncertainty is biologically interpreted as the fear of death and takes over the mind – or what can be called cognition. That is the uncertainty turned into fear-based thinking that you bring to trading. And now it colors the psychological world of your mind into thinking from a fearfully. Your capacity to trade effectively goes downhill from there.

 

Your brain, unless you significantly redevelop it, is not built to distinguish between uncertainty and fear. And fear does not allow a probability-based mindset. It has to be trained for this new perceptual world.

 

Belief, Feeling, Mind, and the World You Trade In

 

Humans are born into a historical narrative, a kind of ontological soup, to which our brains adapt us. In this ontological world, you do not shop for your beliefs and decide which ones you will wear. Long before your could think or reflect, the beliefs you were born into were already internalized into the perceptual map that interprets and interacts with the world of this ontological soup – your perception.

 

Your beliefs, as long as you stay mindless of how your brain and mind operated to work with uncertainty, are simply adaptive responses to the environment of which you are part. And you do not have beliefs – they have you. They create the world you live in and they are hidden from view. They are so familiar that they are not noticed – much like a fish does not notice the water it swims in. But then take the fish out of water and blindness is suddenly erased - and water never seemed so precious.

 

If beliefs (that shape your perception of the world) become integrated into your emotional responses to the world around you, emotional awareness is crucial. Suddenly the emotions that arise, either denied or acknowledged, begin to force explanations to spring into your mind based on the feeling element of the emotion. This is why feeling is so important to manage as a trader.

 

First, what is a feeling and how does it affect thinking and perception? "Feeling" is the subjective experience of an emotion. This subjective experience is also the chemistry that is coursing through your body and brain. In feeling an emotion, your brain and mind are swimming in the current of the emotion. And you (your perception) are being pulled wherever the emotion is designed (by the force of evolution into adaptive responses) to take you.

 

The feeling does this by creating a sense of certainty based on the direction of the emotion. The chemistry of feeling has now colored your perception of the world based on the belief embedded into the emotion about your capacity to manage uncertainty. What does this look like in trading?

 

Consider the turbulence of being in a trade, where you are no longer looking for opportunity, but are protecting your position from turning on you and creating a loss. You are in the midst of uncertainty. It is too late to back out without risk to capital – you’re in for the ride now. The trade is bouncing around on you, flirting with your stop, while you are wondering if it will refresh, get some momentum, and produce the predicted trend.

 

The uncertainty is palpable and your anxiety is building. As the feeling of anxiety builds, all the certainty of this being a good trade evaporates. Suddenly, without trained emotional regulation, you feel certain that you are doomed if you don’t get out of the trade right now. The sense of certainty has changed directions based on the feeling element of your anxiety. Feeling, beyond its subjective experience, creates a sense of certainty in the direction that the emotion is carrying you. You are now certain that if you don’t get out of the trade quickly, you will lose the meager profit that you have RIGHT NOW.

 

The prediction is not true in an absolute sense, but it feels true. Rational thought (based on the feeling state of impartiality) has disappeared. And what appears true is the certainty that the sky is falling, although the trade is within the rules of your trading plan. Once a feeling has taken over the direction of your thinking, no amount of evidence to the contrary will turn your thinking back from catastrophic thinking to probability-based thinking rooted in the feeling of impartiality...not, at least, until the chemistry of the feeling of doom rooted in anxiety burns out of your body and brain. This is how the feeling element of an emotion impacts trading and your perception. Ignoring the emotion, so useful in other domains of your life, is a dangerous strategy to employ in trading.

 

Toward a Peak Performance State of Mind

 

Emotional illiteracy is not an option if you plan to become an effective trader. And, except for the lucky few who come equipped with the genetic predisposition and social adaptation that puts them into elite trader status, the vast majority of traders who are really committed to becoming successful traders will have to deconstruct their old habits and construct a perceptual map (an organization of self) that embraces the uncertainty and risk of trading with a mind built for performance in this environment. This requires real emotional work and rigor.

 

Amazingly, my observation is that traders resist the heavy emotional lifting to do this because of their own beliefs and feelings about uncertainty. They would much rather live in their explanations of what “should be” according to their brain’s need to bring order to markets that they outwardly acknowledge defy deterministic interpretation. Historically embedded beliefs and feelings color their perceptual world that keeps them from the very thing they want most.

 

The deeper question is: are you willing to re-order the way you understand and act in your world for the sake of becoming successful in trading? As you embrace this question (or not), a path opens before you – simply because you ask the question. One way or another, this question is answered in your performances in trading and the impact those performances have on your trading account. And whether you explore new, more effective, ways of understanding the “self” that trades. Trading provides the path you travel. The journey is yours.

 

Rande Howell

www.tradersstateofmind.com

[MCM 10]

[quote name=

 

Amazingly, my observation is that traders resist the heavy emotional lifting to do this because of their own beliefs and feelings about uncertainty. They would much rather live in their explanations of what “should be” according to their brain’s need to bring order to markets that they outwardly acknowledge defy deterministic interpretation. Historically embedded beliefs and feelings color their perceptual world that keeps them from the very thing they want most.

 

The deeper question is: are you willing to re-order the way you understand and act in your world for the sake of becoming successful in trading? As you embrace this question (or not), a path opens before you – simply because you ask the question. One way or another, this question is answered in your performances in trading and the impact those performances have on your trading account. And whether you explore new, more effective, ways of understanding the “self” that trades. Trading provides the path you travel. The journey is yours.

 

Rande Howell

www.tradersstateofmind.com

 

Lol - well Mitsubishi - my guess is you will choose the other path. Cheers all.

 

"The report, by its very length, defends itself against the risk of being read."

- Winston Churchill

[zdo 20]

Denise...

Denise???

:missy:

[Rande Howell 10]

Denise...

Denise???

:missy:

 

 

Ha! Ha! Very funny. More Marin Heidegger meets neurobiology of emotion and meaning. I studied under one of his students in the 80's. Getting meaning planted into biology came later. You know, I really must find out what she teaches. Certainly the emphasis on biology is there. I get that about Van also. There it's the emphasis on the devine.

 

Rande

[Rande Howell 10]

Trade what you see, not what you think.Is that what you're trying to tell us? You psychology guys really like to waffle.,,psychology,last refuge for the desperate,that and religion.

You may be a psychologist but you sure as hell are no writer,a truly horrible article.

There is no mention here or anywhere on your website of you ever making one thin dime in the market,but then your profession is highly skilled at advising on all kinds of things you know nothing about.There are waaay too many bullshit 'experts' in this world imho.

 

This is a very good illustration about what the article is directed at. The feeling of an emotion produces a certainty of belief (meaning that is embedded into the emotion) that defies examination and is resistant to change. What the numbers tell you is always influenced, in the moment of acting, by the beliefs and feelings (historical narrative) that you bring to the interpretation of those numbers. That is why people can know HOW to trade in simulation, but fail when risk becomes a partner to the uncertainty of live trading.

 

This article is not intended for those who interpret and act from a impartial state of mind because they were lucky to be born into this circumstance. It is for traders seeking to understand why they can't act impartially when their relationship with risk becomes part the mindset that sees the numbers -- and do something about it.

 

Rande Howell

[SIUYA 11]

 

Ha! Ha! Very funny. More Marin Heidegger meets neurobiology of emotion and meaning. I studied under one of his students in the 80's. Getting meaning planted into biology came later. You know, I really must find out what she teaches. Certainly the emphasis on biology is there. I get that about Van also. There it's the emphasis on the devine.

 

Rande

 

Glad you (sort of) explained that --- I thought Zdo was taking to one of his internal characters - or had taken up cross dressing....it certainly made the head scratch I had a slow one

[johnw 10]

Trade what you see,

.

 

GM Mitsubishi,

 

" There are none more blind than those who cannot see"

 

Don't you really mean "Trade what is REAL"

 

What you can see is not necessarily what is real ... it is a false assumption to link one to the other ... in fact it is a disaster in the making.

[zdo 20]

:haha: "or had taken up cross dressing"

last time I tried cross dressing I was five years old and it was with a girl and my mother's bra's... just a few minutes later I got my identities straightened out again and we played doctor

 

re:

This article is not intended for those who interpret and act from a impartial state of mind because they were lucky to be born into this circumstance. It is for traders seeking to understand why they can't act impartially when their relationship with risk becomes part the mindset that sees the numbers -- and do something about it.

I'm curious, what percentage of traders consistently "act from a(n) impartial state of mind because they were lucky to be born into this circumstance"? I know a bunch who are able to make it look that way at a persona level, but only one or two who really seem to have it naturally. Even ~80 % of the 'market wizards' didn't. M. Douglas may have encountered someone else by now, but for years and years he reported he had only met one client so far who was thoroughly ready to operate like this out the gate... Neither of these are basis for good stats... wonder what the real percentages are?

 

Is it possible theres a three way split

those who are "lucky"

those who are aren't "lucky" but can do something about it

those who are aren't "lucky" and can't do something about it (yet)

???

Edited January 9, 2012 by zdo

[SIUYA 11]

re:

I'm curious, what percentage of traders consistently "act from a(n) impartial state of mind because they were lucky to be born into this circumstance"? I know a bunch who are able to make it look that way at a persona level, but only one or two who really seem to have it naturally.

 

Like many things, IMHO sometimes you need a light to switch on to even realise it.

Personally for me - circa 1995-6 I realised how impartial thinking creeps in....even if it not based on deep seated ideas/character flaws/upbringing etc.

Story goes as follows....

 

I was market making equity options, and I used to chart things by hand on the floor adding to some charts I had printed out first thing in the morning. As I was always doing this and interested in charting, folks on the floor always asked my opinion (even if it was worth very little).

The light for me moment was when....one morning asked what I thought of a particluar stock we were trading, my answer was "I have no idea, no opinion, and so I am doing nothing" - about half an hour later someone sold me some calls giving me a long exposure. Rather than hedging them up I thought "gee they were cheap, I must be bullish now".

30 seconds later I hit myself and hedged and then went short - knowing that somewhere, my thinking had been clouded - how was it it could have no idea and then because someone else said/did something that I was suddenly sure of a position that I was given, and did not plan.......for whatever reason. (the short was a punt that if I had no idea, the call seller might have one )

 

Ever since, I have been aware of biases that can creep in, so little tricks I use to try and avoid this are turning charts upside down, argue the point from the other viewpoint, if I am short, see if I would be comfortable being long.......

FWIW - While these may or may not overide deep set individual biases in someones character, they do help keep an even keel when viewing a market.....hence in my world implying some sort of impartiality.

 

In terms of being born into it....you would not be human (or maybe have some sort of autism) to be impartial to everything. My guess is some people can recognise it and switch it on/off better than others.

 

I have seen some great traders and one of their great abilities was to be able to switch from being long to short without problems - not on a whim, but they had no "love" of their previous positions. A five minute mental timeframe memory!

 

(Zdo - glad to see the x-dressing was a faze, unless of course a female perspective on the market helps , it gave me a laugh)

Edited January 9, 2012 by SIUYA

[bobcollett 10]

Dear Rande

Mitsubishi is correct. Your writing style is hard to follow.

If I have to read a sentence twice,I am stupid.

If I have to read a sentence three times ,you are .............not explaining yourself correctly.

And I remember your collaboration with Zdo, the dialogue was the same.

 

BUT

Thats how psychologists are trained!!!

 

So that makes your marketing job a struggle.

People wonder what you are talking about.

People wonder if they will understand your lessons.

And remember three of your four previous participants ran away.

 

The biggest hindrance to more business is lack of trading experience.

Every trader asks how a non trader can teach traders.

ME TOO.

Its like telling me to sim trade.

 

To gain credibility in your business..

YOU HAVE TO START TRADING

 

Kind regards

bobc

 

PS Keep a journal

PSS There are 100 hotshots on this forum who can help........no charge.

PSSS Its the second most difficult profession in the whole world

[Rande Howell 10]

Dear Rande

Mitsubishi is correct. Your writing style is hard to follow.

If I have to read a sentence twice,I am stupid.

If I have to read a sentence three times ,you are .............not explaining yourself correctly.

And I remember your collaboration with Zdo, the dialogue was the same.

 

BUT

Thats how psychologists are trained!!!

 

So that makes your marketing job a struggle.

People wonder what you are talking about.

People wonder if they will understand your lessons.

And remember three of your four previous participants ran away.

 

The biggest hindrance to more business is lack of trading experience.

Every trader asks how a non trader can teach traders.

ME TOO.

Its like telling me to sim trade.

 

To gain credibility in your business..

YOU HAVE TO START TRADING

 

Kind regards

bobc

 

PS Keep a journal

PSS There are 100 hotshots on this forum who can help........no charge.

PSSS Its the second most difficult profession in the whole world

 

Fortunately (for me) what you say is not evidence based. I'm not sure what you mean that some of the people who took the trader psychology course "ran away". I do know that several did not see the value in participating in the forums. If that's "running away", then I believe they chose wisely. One of them is a trader moving from trading his own money to the confidence acquired through performance of trading others money.

 

All the opinions aside. Produce grounded assessments, rather than opinions and biases and I'm interesting in engaging with you. One of my favorites in this regard is SUIJA. He's a professional trader. Disagrees with me often -- has even called me out. The difference is that he grounded his assessments in facts not unexamined opinions. Otherwise the conversation is simply not useful to the growth possibilities in a person's trading.

 

zdo is an interesting guy to be in conversation with. I often have to read his stuff a number of times and get clarification from him to make sure he and I are tracking with one another. He appears to think differently that many traders, but he's a valuable part of the trading environment.

 

Difficult to understand. Sometimes. I do acknowledge that this article is more academic that I usually write. But for people who have the eyes and ears to listen, they got alot. I do get alot of mail thank me for my book and articles. So, I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. Usually they have read a number of my articles. SFO magazine is also publishing one in their June issue this year. We'll see what kind of feedback they get. That would provide a level of grounded assessment that might be more helpful in gauging readability.

 

Whether or not I provide value to traders who are experiencing problems. I don't see what fractual basis you assess from. Your opinion is not a fact. It is only an opinion. That you have biases you see through is just being human. I sure get alot of reports to the contrary. I encourage you to be rigorous in your assessments.

 

And if you actually train traders and work with them every day, I will be happy to provide you with other methodology trainers I work with and traders who have worked with me. That would add a ground to your assessments.

 

Good luck with your trading.

 

Rande Howell

[zdo 20]

Mitsubishi, …I haven’t got much use for ‘trading psychologists’ either… too focused on pathology, what’s wrong, etc…“We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe.” – Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

 

…so, on to ‘trading sychology’ ... focused on strengths, what is working, etc -

I know what you're thinking, punk. Did I light up 7 chakras or was it only 6? Now to tell you the truth I forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this is a leveraged contract, the most powerful small scale debt instrument in the world and will blow your account clean up, you've gotta ask yourself a question: 'What's my inner truth?' Well? What is it punk?

 

...We truly have a Universe within …

 

zdo

[MightyMouse 12]

My point still stands,i don't know what a psychologist is doing on a trading forum.

 

 

If you know how to trade, then you should know precisely why Rande. (I a not sure he is a psychologist) is on a trading forum.

[bobcollett 10]

2nd hardest? what's the first one bob?

 

Dear mitsubishi

Predictions

regards

bobc

[johnw 10]

There's no need to get overly concerned with evidence.All the evidence points to the fact that a tobin tax ain't gonna work,in fact it will have the opposite result to the one desired.But that's not going to deter Sarkosy. There is not a shred of proof that Iran has now.or is developing a nuclear weapon, but that won't stop the neo cons from trying to start another war.All the evidence points to the fact that more debt won't solve the euro crisis but 'there is no plan B'

You see there is evidence and there is agenda and bullshit always has an agenda regardless of evidence.

 

GM Mitsubishi

 

Are we detecting a hint of anger in your posts ... is there something about BS that upsets your equilibrium?

[Rande Howell 10]

If you know how to trade, then you should know precisely why Rande. (I a not sure he is a psychologist) is on a trading forum.

 

As you suggest, please note that this is a trader psychology forum -- dealing with the emotional and mental aspects experienced in trading. And that is why I'm here. MM, I'm actually a LPC. In the trading world the term psychologist gets pretty slurred. That means I have a state approved license to practice therapy and carry insurance for that purpose. I have a performance based approach, though I find that, with most traders, there are self limiting beliefs embedded into our perception that need to be reconstructed and redeveloped to build the kind of mind that functions well in the trading environment.

[zdo 20]

Mitsubishi,

 

You don’t have to be a trader to be fascinated with and / or need to understand how the humans typically deal with an environment that presents continuous uncertainty.

You don’t have to be a psychologist either.

 

We become more proficient in an arena as we raise our awareness.

We become more proficient in an arena that we hone and leverage our focus …

We become more proficient in what we “measure”…

Bringing a "threat orientation" instead of an "opportunity orientation" diminishes our chances of doing any of the above.

 

Rande simply offers some ways to destroy some 'threat' patterns and create some 'opportunity' patterns. His is a niche. In fact, all trading vendors, even the ones who believe they have the solution for everyone, only have a tiny niche ...and only a tiny 'success' rate too. After all they are dealing with ... traders :doh:

 

 

All the best,

 

zdo

Edited January 10, 2012 by zdo

[bobcollett 10]

Dear mitsubishi

No more bad language PLEASE

My kids read these posts

regards

bobc

[SIUYA 11]

how you are qualified to know what kind of mind functions well in a trading environment.'

 

Can you answer that question in plain simple English?

 

I am a skeptic but I also realise great coaches dont need to have played (whatever game), and they especially dont need to have played well. They might just be able to offer their expertise in their particular field to help some with mental roadblocks they may face - thats why there are sports psychologists...

If Rande has seen a lot of traders he might be able to see repreating patterns that he can help, and often much like the "emporer with no clothes" sometimes its those that have an outside (naive maybe) perspective that might actually offer new insight.

 

Wile I agree with some of wht you say Mitsubishi, do you think maybe you are being a bit blinkered?

[darvasfan 10]

Can you answer that question in plain simple English?

 

I am a skeptic but I also realise great coaches dont need to have played (whatever game), and they especially dont need to have played well. They might just be able to offer their expertise in their particular field to help some with mental roadblocks they may face - thats why there are sports psychologists...

If Rande has seen a lot of traders he might be able to see repreating patterns that he can help, and often much like the "emporer with no clothes" sometimes its those that have an outside (naive maybe) perspective that might actually offer new insight.

 

Wile I agree with some of wht you say Mitsubishi, do you think maybe you are being a bit blinkered?

 

In my limited experience reading Mitsubishi, my guess is that this article has struck a particular nerve with him since he believes that markets are predictable - hence his efforts at finding a way to do so. He is violently reacting to something counter to his beliefs and, in the process, is torching politics, religion and other things. Quite an interesting and violent reaction to an article.

[MightyMouse 12]

Can you answer that question in plain simple English?

 

I am a skeptic but I also realise great coaches dont need to have played (whatever game), and they especially dont need to have played well. They might just be able to offer their expertise in their particular field to help some with mental roadblocks they may face - thats why there are sports psychologists...

If Rande has seen a lot of traders he might be able to see repreating patterns that he can help, and often much like the "emporer with no clothes" sometimes its those that have an outside (naive maybe) perspective that might actually offer new insight.

 

Wile I agree with some of wht you say Mitsubishi, do you think maybe you are being a bit blinkered?

 

Siuya,

 

They do not need to have played but they certainly must understand the game they are playing. If they do not understand the game, they can not coach. So, requiring a trading coach to be an expert trader isn't necessary, but they should truly understand what it takes to be a trader and you cannot understand what it takes to be a trader unless you understand trading.

 

Also, a great baseball coach wouldn't be able to effectively coach a trader to trade, unless he was helping develop a level swing to take out all his monitors with one swing when he gets pissed at a bad loss.

 

MM

[SIUYA 11]

Also, a great baseball coach wouldn't be able to effectively coach a trader to trade, unless he was helping develop a level swing to take out all his monitors with one swing when he gets pissed at a bad loss.

 

MM

 

LOL...

 

and yet I guess this is a matter of degrees - I sway more to the point that someone with good techniques with skills over certain subjects can actually apply those skills to things they may no little about technically, but can see certain "mind blocking" / blinkered responses.

In doing so they may offer advice on certain techniques - FOR WHICH THEY DO HAVE THE SKILLS......these can ideally be universally applied to many activities that require mental gymnastics. (assuming the educator is actually skillful in diagnosing the problem and able to help rectify or offer advice on fixing issues)

 

In this way while the coaching input is only a part of the whole I dont think it necessarily should be dismissed without thought. That is all.

 

I also think (this is the big proviso) that many coaches for trading, and many other professions/skills/sports is only really best applied AFTER many other skills have been achieved and it is road blocks hindering performance, or that extra leg up that is needed to enhance performance. So not necessarily for new players.

 

Now back to that phone throwing practice! Eye on the screen use the shoulder, control the anger.

[Rande Howell 10]

for those of you who are google research challenged. LPC means licensed professional counselor.

[zdo 20]

.. continuing with more

 

how about this?

a great mentor needs to fully understand the specific 'game'

a great coach doesn't need to know anything at all about the specific 'game'

 

...back on topic

From the article

"...beliefs that stay beneath the radar of their awareness...

Traders avoid dealing with these hidden self-limiting beliefs because they are uncomfortable to acknowledge..."

 

zdo, UUC

[Rande Howell 10]

Yeah but,no but,yeah but...please explain in plain english how you are qualified to know what kind of mind functions well in a trading environment.You see i,and others here know the answer to that question because we are traders.Whereas you are not.

And unless you are planning a career in politics,could you please answer the question asked,rather than a question you preferred we had asked?

 

'ok HAL i'll go in through the airlock'

'You're going to find that a little difficult without your helmet Rande'

 

Mitsubishi

 

This answer is not for you. It is for people who actually seek to learn, rather than defiantly defend their position (or to blow off steam). It is a good question.

 

Understanding how the mind operates in pressure situations (and changing it) is something that actually has to be studied and understood by stepping back from it. The psychological dynamics involved in the dance of trading is not sacred to the people who trade. It is observable and falls into categories. What you are actually studying is how a mind, with its inherent biases and adaptations, engages uncertainty. It is in this dance that the beliefs that the trader holds about him or herself in the world and their capacity to engage uncertainty are revealed. It is these beliefs, called your mindset, that "causes" the trader to see and interpret market data in the ways they do -- and they act on them.

 

These beliefs and emotion become embedded. That is what trades. Laying out a roadmap for the way a trader emotionally interacts with the market is pretty straight forward really. For people who are trained (not just psychology types) to look for the elements of the process of performance, the various markers are not mysterous. I find very few traders can do this for themselves. And this assertion is backed up by the methodology teachers I work with. Trainers (really good ones who train their methodology as they trade in live rooms) report to me that they can train a person in the methodology to where the trader should be competent to trade -- but isn't. The problem is the mindset that the trader brings to the trade. The trainers are frustrated and baffled by why their students keep losing. They know it is in the way the mind perceives uncertainty and risk.

 

Until that changes, the trader continues in the old self limiting ways. As long as the trader seeks to find discipline externally rather than internally, they lose the opportunity to change their self limiting ways. This is what the methodology teachers understand. They do not have a problem with my not trading. They have a problem with teaching their students how to manage their psychology of risk and uncertainty. And they have figured out that they can't teach this part of trading. They may have had an attitude such as yours at one time, but hundreds and thousands of traders later, they have become convinced that training a trader's psychology to trade is, in fact, very different than teaching a process that allows a trader to have an edge in trading. Until mind and method are on the same page, the trader still has one hand tied behind his back.

 

I encourage traders to convince themselves of this by their performances and not by what I or what you say. Let it be evidenced based. You can believe your deceptions, but your trading account does not care about the rightousness of your beliefs. Only that they are effective. Usually that takes many thousands of dollars of losses for them to come a new conclusion. It's a trader's money. Your trading account will tell you if your beliefs that you bring to trading are effective or not. Look there and you will find grounding to support or question the effectiveness of your beliefs. This is where biases are seperated from grounded assessments of performance. Personally I find very few traders care whether I trade or not. They are concerned if I can help them manage the emotions and mindset that they bring to trading.

 

And may your trading be fruitful. And may you learn from it.

 

Rande Howell