Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Recommended Posts

Hello Everyone,

 

Can anyone explain what does Counter trend trading mean?

 

You have to understand what is meant by a trend. Google and you will find many websites that discuss what a trend is and how to determine if a trend is in place. Then you can trade with or against (counter trend) the trend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello Everyone,

 

Can anyone explain what does Counter trend trading mean?

 

that means you would rather have hamburger when you could have steak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It means understanding trend well enough to trade both directions. With the trend and against the trend.

 

Hello Everyone,

 

Can anyone explain what does Counter trend trading mean?

Edited by onesmith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I look for a low or high on the NYSE tick to correspond with a low or high in price on the index like the ES. If that low or high price hold's, that could potentially be the low or high of the day so I look to go long at low ticks with low price and short and high ticks with low price. That's an example of one of my counter trend setups because we're moving higher (uptrend) get a high tick of day at high price when I take a short (against the trend).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

counter trend trading is a dumb concept.

 

it implies there is a trend. therefore, why would anyone want to fade it? (unless your business is scalping - in which case one wouldnt be asking the question as such a trend would be almost irrelevant)

 

lets go back to hamburgers and steak - its more intellectual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tim,

 

I tried your suggestion about the tick because I've made a lot of changes since the last time I looked at it. To summarize, initially it seemed to add something I liked but I soon realized it gave me many false signals. If you want to elaborate, I'm interested in hearing more about it's nuances, or other concepts.

 

If you make it good I'm sure TheDude and everyone else will be ok with it.

 

Thanks!

 

I look for a low or high on the NYSE tick to correspond with a low or high in price on the index like the ES. If that low or high price hold's, that could potentially be the low or high of the day so I look to go long at low ticks with low price and short and high ticks with low price. That's an example of one of my counter trend setups because we're moving higher (uptrend) get a high tick of day at high price when I take a short (against the trend).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Haha, fair enough 'Dude' to each his own. I prefer mine inserted with a slice of herb butter with some grilled bacon and onions. Buffalo meat is ideal!

 

 

 

Awwwwwwwwwwwesome!

 

Ive never tried the herb butter thing but it sounds great.

 

when im in the usa, i like going to '5 Guys' Not the best burgers in the world, but pretty good - i like the concept and the peanuts.

 

BBQ sauce is a must for the Dude on a burger. Bacon is a treat if Ive been eating too much salad. Onions - well of course. grilled though - or even better onion rings deep fried in bread crumbs/batter.hmmmmmmm hamburgers......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All this stuff about hamburgers and steak. Thankfully, I'm a vegetarian.

 

(despite my avatar indicating otherwise!)

 

Hello. My name's Perrin and I'm a counter-trend-trading-aholic.

 

At least, I think I am. Sometimes I am. Sometimes going with the flow is the way to go. I guess it just depends on the situation as I read it in front of me. The way I do things at the moment is swing trading over days / weeks.

 

Is everyone here unanimous in suggesting that trading against the trend is a bad idea? I'm sitting here with just over a year of live trading experience. On this thread TL members who I respect and have learnt from, are saying that trading against the current movement of the market is a bad idea. Am I going to blow up sometime by going against the crowd?

 

I've been reading more about Niederhoffer and his blow ups. Sucess, sucess, sucess, sucess.... then boom, loses everything.

 

Not that I'm all successes and peaches and cream (no steak of course). But I feel like consistant success is certainly possible.

 

Regarding counter trend trading - surely it depends at which point you are at during the trend. If there's a point where price has got tired and is looking to reverse, and you 'know' it's going to reverse (ignoring for the moment how it is that you know), surely you want to go against the crowd. The crowd has sold all their stock (for example) and no one else is left to sell (no one else wants to sell), so the only way for price to go is up (well, or sideways. Or down if you're wrong!).

 

Also price tends to go counter-trend quite rapidly. Sometimes.

Edited by Perrin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All this stuff about hamburgers and steak. Thankfully, I'm a vegetarian.

 

(despite my avatar indicating otherwise!)

 

Hello. My name's Perrin and I'm a counter-trend-trading-aholic.

 

At least, I think I am. Sometimes I am. Sometimes going with the flow is the way to go. I guess it just depends on the situation as I read it in front of me. The way I do things at the moment is swing trading over days / weeks.

 

Is everyone here unanimous in suggesting that trading against the trend is a bad idea? I'm sitting here with just over a year of live trading experience. On this thread TL members who I respect and have learnt from, are saying that trading against the current movement of the market is a bad idea. Am I going to blow up sometime by going against the crowd?

 

I've been reading more about Niederhoffer and his blow ups. Sucess, sucess, sucess, sucess.... then boom, loses everything.

 

Not that I'm all successes and peaches and cream (no steak of course). But I feel like consistant success is certainly possible.

 

Regarding counter trend trading - surely it depends at which point you are at during the trend. If there's a point where price has got tired and is looking to reverse, and you 'know' it's going to reverse (ignoring for the moment how it is that you know), surely you want to go against the crowd. The crowd has sold all their stock (for example) and no one else is left to sell (no one else wants to sell), so the only way for price to go is up (well, or sideways. Or down if you're wrong!).

 

Also price tends to go counter-trend quite rapidly. Sometimes.

 

I base everything I do or investigate on the concept of fading the shorter term trend in favour of the longer term trend. On a shorter timeframe chart it would look counter-trend, and on a longer timeframe chart it would look like 'buying a pullback' in a trend. It's all pretty relative really.

 

There is someone in one of the Market Wizards books who is fiercely counter-trend - might be some help to you, but I forget which trader (could possibly be Tudor-Jones?). He is fairly 'global-macro' in style though.

 

BlueHorseshoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the way you view it is you're counter trend, but only on the current timeframe. On the longer timeframe you are following the trend.

 

I don't use the higher timeframes as well as perhaps I should. I know there's another thread currently going on the topic of multiple time frames. When I started trading with real money I did various things, but mainly began by looking at mulitple time frames (having the 5 year chart open, and the 1 year chart). I have recently lapsed (lapsed? progressed? regressed?) into only reading the 3 month one (sometimes also viewing the 1 year) and not paying so much attention to longer term trends.

 

I could improve on getting better entries by being more selective. I will think about it, as I am sure that I can pick them better.

 

I do like the Paul Tudor Jones video :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So the way you view it is you're counter trend, but only on the current timeframe. On the longer timeframe you are following the trend.

 

Yes, although I have always identified the longer term trend from the shorter term timeframe, as there are more data points to work with there. On a daily chart, for instance, a 150 period MA would be the 'go with' trend, a 5 period MA would be the 'fade-able' trend.

 

This is workable in higher timeframes (if you have the capital), but I have never been able to make it work effectively in lower timeframes - the concept holds and is profitable, but the smaller profits get eaten up by commission and spreads.

 

BlueHorseshoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • YUM Yum Brands stock, nice breakout with volume +34.5%, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?YUM
    • Date: 3rd April 2025.   Gold Prices Pull Back After Record High as Traders Eye Trump’s Tariffs.   Key Takeaways:   Gold prices retreated after hitting a record high of $3,167.57 per ounce due to profit-taking. President Trump announced a 10% baseline tariff on all US imports, escalating trade tensions. Gold remains exempt from reciprocal tariffs, reinforcing its safe-haven appeal. Investors await US non-farm payroll data for further market direction. Fed rate cut bets and weaker US Treasury yields underpin gold’s bullish outlook. Gold Prices Retreat from Record Highs Amid Profit-Taking Gold prices saw a pullback on Thursday as traders opted to take profits following a historic surge. Spot gold declined 0.4% to $3,122.10 per ounce as of 0710 GMT, retreating from its fresh all-time high of $3,167.57. Meanwhile, US gold futures slipped 0.7% to $3,145.00 per ounce, reflecting broader market uncertainty over economic and geopolitical developments.   The recent rally was largely fueled by concerns over escalating trade tensions after President Donald Trump unveiled sweeping new import tariffs. The 10% baseline tariff on all goods entering the US further deepened the global trade conflict, intensifying investor demand for safe-haven assets like gold. However, as traders locked in gains from the surge, prices saw a modest retracement.   Trump’s Tariffs and Their Market Implications On Wednesday, Trump introduced a sweeping tariff policy imposing a 10% baseline duty on all imports, with significantly higher tariffs on select nations. While this move was aimed at bolstering domestic manufacturing, it sent shockwaves across global markets, fueling inflation concerns and heightening trade war fears.   Gold’s Role Amid Trade War Escalations Despite the widespread tariff measures, the White House clarified that reciprocal tariffs do not apply to gold, energy, and ‘certain minerals that are not available in the US’. This exemption suggests that central banks and institutional investors may continue favouring gold as a hedge against economic instability. One of the key factors supporting gold is the slowdown that these tariffs could cause in the US economy, which raises the likelihood of future Federal Reserve rate cuts. Gold is currently in a pure momentum trade. Market participants are on the sidelines and until we see a significant shakeout, this momentum could persist.   Impact on the US Dollar and Bond Yields Gold prices typically move inversely to the US dollar, and the latest developments have pushed the dollar to its weakest level since October 2024. Market participants are increasingly pricing in the possibility of a Fed rate cut, as the tariffs could weigh on economic growth.   Additionally, US Treasury yields have plummeted, reflecting growing recession fears. Lower bond yields reduce the opportunity cost of holding non-yielding assets like gold, making it a more attractive investment.         Technical Analysis: Key Levels to Watch Gold’s recent rally has pushed it into overbought territory, with the Relative Strength Index (RSI) above 70. This indicates a potential short-term pullback before the uptrend resumes. The immediate support level lies at $3,115, aligning with the Asian session low. A further decline could bring gold towards the $3,100 psychological level, which has previously acted as a strong support zone. Below this, the $3,076–$3,057 region represents a critical weekly support range where buyers may re-enter the market. In the event of a more significant correction, $3,000 stands as a major psychological floor.   On the upside, gold faces immediate resistance at $3,149. A break above this level could signal renewed bullish momentum, potentially leading to a retest of the record high at $3,167. If bullish momentum persists, the next target is the $3,200 psychological barrier, which could pave the way for further gains. Despite the recent pullback, the broader trend remains bullish, with dips likely to be viewed as buying opportunities.   Looking Ahead: Non-Farm Payrolls and Fed Policy Traders are closely monitoring Friday’s US non-farm payrolls (NFP) report, which could provide critical insights into the Federal Reserve’s next policy moves. A weaker-than-expected jobs report may strengthen expectations for an interest rate cut, further boosting gold prices.   Other key economic data releases, such as jobless claims and the ISM Services PMI, may also impact market sentiment in the short term. However, with rising geopolitical uncertainties, trade tensions, and a weakening US dollar, gold’s safe-haven appeal remains strong.   Conclusion: While short-term profit-taking may trigger minor corrections, gold’s long-term outlook remains bullish. As global trade tensions mount and the Federal Reserve leans toward a more accommodative stance, gold could see further gains in the months ahead.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • AMZN Amazon stock, nice buying at the 187.26 triple+ support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?AMZN
    • DELL Dell Technologies stock, good day moving higher off the 90.99 double support area, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?DELL
    • MCK Mckesson stock, nice trend and continuation breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?MCK
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.