Emini-watch.com Anybody Use 'em?

[Tasuki 10]

Hi folks,

Criminy, it's been a dog's age since I've been on Traders Lab. Hope you're all surviving the volatility with your accounts intact!

Anyway, a friend of mine is thinking of purchasing and using the specialty indicators provided by a company called emini-watch.com. No reviews of them in the review section, and only a couple of random posts with no useable info. So, maybe nobody uses these indicators, but if there are folks on Traders Lab who have tried the indicators, I'd like to know what they think. Are they worth $425? Are they worth anything at all?

Thanks,

Tasuki

[TheNegotiator 13]

I have heard of them but can't give you any feedback I'm afraid. All I would say is I would be very wary of parting with money for an indicator unless I knew exactly how it worked.

[zdo 20]

Tasuki,

 

Dude! where have you been?

 

re emini watch

Nothing ‘wrong’ with these products. Reasonably priced.

but…

Are the “Better_” ‘s really better?

Better Sine Wave… it’s going to have to be tremendously better to overcome the over- simplification of ‘sine wave’ crap to begin with…

randomly it will be in-synch (like in the cherry picking screenshots) about 10% of the time …not to mention lag… and not to mention….

ie it may be a better sine wave, but it will always be a very, very stupid solution for cycles work.

 

Better Volume… He released the code way back when… it’s “better” … but better than what?  … not even better than the most rudimentary VSA, etc

 

Better Trin… ok. but again. better than what? If one is really into Trin, it’s better to roll your own ‘better’ indicator

 

Better Momentum… it’s probably not nearly as adaptive as it is billed… ie it’s better sometimes…

 

Better ProAm … definitely better than nothing… still it’s rudimentary VSA … might be a good place to start but, speaking from experience, ultimately he’ll have to roll his own if he’s really into transaction (size, etc) analysis

 

Better Trendlines… are better than nothing at all. (… and what happened to the Better Triangles? )

 

If your friend knows these are the tools he will be using then (for all but a tiny few), they are definitely more cost effective (and easier) to buy than they are to code from scratch.

It’s probably better for him to buy them a la carte instead of the package because most likely will never use more than two of them consistently… I would suggest the last two on the list above have any value at all to the noob or developing trader…

 

zdo

[Tasuki 10]

Thanks, zdo, your analysis is most helpful!

To answer your question, I dropped out of Traders Lab during the conflict that erupted a couple of years ago regarding VSA. There were alot of childish posts at that time, and I just got fed up with the nonsense. Recently, I've been keeping up with my VSA through the free weekly emails done by Todd Krueger. Pretty good stuff. Todd also brings in Wyckoff, which is helpful, and adds some new elements from his own trading. Wyckoff is ancient, of course, and some of what he talks about doesn't work any more. The very best stuff I've found, however, is on Tim Morge's Market Geometry website. Tim's not a very nice fellow, but if I were carrying around as many diseases as he has, my mood would be far fouler, I'm pretty sure. But he and Shane, his partner, have the best educational stuff on the markets. IMHO. They're all into structure, which is very cool stuff, because it works in tandem with VSA and/or indicators. The fact that they can make money without indicators, or even volume, on their charts, is a testament to their skills at reading the "flow of price" based solely on the structures they see in the market. If you haven't checked it out, I'd recommend it. They have lots of free stuff on their site.

Anyway, thanks again for your thoughtful reply! Happy trade-hunting to you!

Tasuki

[proemini 10]

Thanks, zdo! that's really a analysis! Keep it up!

 

Best regards,

[Goldfish 10]

I've downloaded a few indicators from BigMikeTrading website for free. However, BMT has now blocked downloads, unless you are an Elite Member, (USD50) because various companies/individuals were flogging them for lots of $$$ & it was causing angst.

 

Dont know about Emini-watch indicators -am checking them out now. Not sure what a "Better Trend Line" is! You just need to learn how to draw them correctly ! And learn Tom de Mark Trendline drawing - it can be hard work but worth it.

 

I use very few indicators, but one particular indicator from BMT that does exceptionally well for me, is the "anaSuperTrend" (line) indicator. Pullbacks respect it & usually power off it...while retracements do the same.

 

Look for good free stuff before you pay, is my take on them.

[jazzyjrfl 10]

I am an avid user of the emini-watch.com indicators and would recommend that anyone interested in them should watch all the videos that are linked to the emini-watch.com page.

 

Only after watching the videos and seeing how they are used in real-time to determine good entry and exit points can you compare them to your current indicators/methods to see if this other way of viewing market direction will give you a better edge than you currently have.

[chubbardo 10]

Use the indicators. Better than what is a good question. What I don't like about the method is the lack of explanation on how to use them effectively. A trade plan is needed. It's also very discretionary, so they are not really a system more like something to add to your own style of trading. I like the ProAm churn bars for spotting high volume orders and value this. The others I just haven't managed to use effectively. Are they worth the dosh... depends on your financial situation I guess. For me they help be in sync with the price ebb and flow. Considering it will cost 200-300$ to get something coded I think the price is ok.

[jazzyjrfl 10]

I also want to add that Better SineWave is based on the Hilbert Transform. You can read about it's application to financial markets here The use of the Hilbert transform in market cycle analysis.

 

Before using the Better SineWave, I read and reread Ehlers several times and then attempted to write the indicator myself. However, since I do not possess a Phd in Math, I found myself pretty frustrated and after about 2 weeks, gave up on this effort.

 

I also realized that the Better SineWave has taken the Hilbert Transform and specialized it for day trading purposes by adding price confirmation.

[anituchka 10]

I've downloaded a few indicators from BigMikeTrading website for free. However, BMT has now blocked downloads, unless you are an Elite Member, (USD50 a year) because various companies/individuals were flogging them for lots of $$$ & it was causing angst.

 

Dont know about Emini-watch indicators -am checking them out now. Not sure what a "Better Trend Line" is! You just need to learn how to draw them correctly ! And learn Tom de Mark Trendline drawing - it can be hard work but worth it.

 

I use very few indicators, but one particular indicator from BMT that does exceptionally well for me, is the "anaSuperTrend" (line) indicator. Pullbacks respect it & usually power off it...while retracements do the same.

 

Look for good free stuff before you pay, is my take on them.

 

BMT elite forum is $50 ONE time payment, not annually. And it's well worth it..

[joshdance 10]

BMT has now blocked downloads, unless you are an Elite Member, (USD50 a year)

 

Moderators, could you possibly edit this user's post to reflect the accurate information, which is a ONE TIME fee of $50? I hate to see people post inaccurate information and not care enough to correct it.

[z07s3v 10]

To all emini-watch "better indicators" practitioners out there..

 

I just finished watching latest video. Any idea what Barry was looking at when he decided to go short? I know it was the "icebreaker" trade but I waited because of the flush on 1500, sell exhaustion, pros exit and bullish divergence on 500. Plus I was waiting for the economic #s to come out. I ended up taking my 1st trade @ 8:50 CST. Sometimes Barry will go against the signals because he has the ability to read the market so well but I'm still trying to figure out what he's looking at when he's going against the signals. I know the 4500 tick bar chart is in a trend move and we should be watching for the pull back but how did he know the index was making a pull back @ that moment?

 

My 2nd question is that how did Barry know to hold this trade the entire time? I only managed to get 1.75 pts but he was able to sit through the majority of that move.

 

Thanks!

[Goldfish 10]

Moderators, could you possibly edit this user's post to reflect the accurate information, which is a ONE TIME fee of $50? I hate to see people post inaccurate information and not care enough to correct it.

 

My apologies for posting something which is inaccurate - I thought it was $50 anually and it was just a matter of reading BMT website info too fast. I'm very happy about that.

 

Also, its not about "not caring"...I simply missed the previous post about it. Thanks for bringing the error to my attention.

[steve46 12]

Just for the heck of it, I took a look at the site...I think the gentleman has the right idea as to how the market works generally. As to whether the indicators are "better" or just crap I really don't know....

 

Regarding the Hilbert Transform and John Ehlers, well his system (Ehlers) has been reviewed by Future's Truth I believe, so you can get a bit more info about the concept there....and you might want to check as how to the systems Ehlers designed based on that concept have done over the passed few years. There should be a track record available to the public. I am also skeptical about the gentleman's claim that he has "improved" Ehler's basic concept...He certainly talks a good game but whether he has the math and programming skills to do that is from my point of view unproven...

 

Regarding the other indicators I am somewhat skeptical...I do the same thing without having to resort to any indicators and I get the job done very nicely...If they work at all what you are payng for it seems to me, is the convenience of not having to take the time to learn how to recognize those signals using freely available data. Personally if they work, I would be all for it, because it took me several years to learn it on my own...so thats quite a savings in time alone.....again I will repeat I am skeptical because most "shortcuts" to success don't' work out well....

[z07s3v 10]

steve46,

 

Thank you for the information regarding Hilbert Transform and John Ehlers. I will definitely try to research that a bit more.

 

How did you go about learning to do the same thing without indicators? I've been actively trying to learn tape reading. I use camtasia to record the DOM each day and try to watch it but I find it extremely difficult. I don't expect to get it in a couple of weeks but hoping it will start to make sense if I do it for 6 months. I got the idea after reading nobsdaytrading book written by John Grady. Any suggestions on how to learn about interpreting volume and tick size?

 

Thank you!

[joshdance 10]

Any idea what Barry was looking at when he decided to go short?

 

Any number of things z07 -- check over the in the "Day Trading the E-Mini Futures" thread here on TL and you'll see that I was also very bearish at the same time, and if you read the posts you'll see why: selling right off the open, very little market buying, mostly selling. Secondly, early release 9:42 chicago number was bearish, and market sold strongly. 9:55 revised michigan number above expectations, market tried but did not respond very favorably. That alone tells a large part of the story. News does matter; or rather, the market's reaction to news. Basically, who in the first half hour had the tougher time, and who had the easier route? Lower lows, and lower highs. Very little market buying. Adds up to a reasonable possibility of a good short doesn't it?

 

Sometimes Barry will go against the signals because he has the ability to read the market so well but I'm still trying to figure out what he's looking at when he's going against the signals.

 

You kind of answer your own question here z07 -- he has the ability to read the market (apparently; I don't really know). So, who needs a signal?

 

I know the 4500 tick bar chart is in a trend move and we should be watching for the pull back but how did he know the index was making a pull back @ that moment?

 

He did not know it was making a pullback. He didn't KNOW anything more than anyone else watching.

 

 

My 2nd question is that how did Barry know to hold this trade the entire time? I only managed to get 1.75 pts but he was able to sit through the majority of that move.

 

The recurring theme here is the word "know" -- he didn't KNOW anything. He saw that the market was moving down, and he was on board. He exited when he thought the market might be prepping for a reversal, and it turns out he was profitable. You'll notice that he did not short at the very top, and did not exit at the very bottom, but caught a chunk in the middle.

 

Unfortunately, what you seem to be seeking is some special knowledge, information, or interpretation that can only come with repeated observation of the market. Even those who are very good still work in the realm of uncertainty; nothing is guaranteed or known.

 

As for the "better" indicators, or any indicators, the danger is exactly in what you seem to be doing now: giving your focus to them, instead of what the market is actually doing. Barry no doubt knows how to put his own indicators into context. You, however, along with many who buy them, no doubt, have little context surrounding them, and thus you are looking for the "signal" from a blue bar, a cyan dot, or something else, when in fact the answer is in the context itself.

[joshdance 10]

As for the "better pro/am" indicator...

 

The notion of the "close" of a tick or volume bar meaning much of anything is illogical, as the open of the bar is arbitrary, since some users will start a new bar at the start of a new session, and some will not. Some of those who do start a new bar will start it at the globex open, some at the RTH open. And since not all data feeds, even the good ones, will be exactly the same, there's no constant to determine bar closes. Giving a meaning to the close of a volume or tick bar in isolation is dangerous.

 

Additionally, as tick size generally corresponds with volume size, doing analysis on volume in tick bars is mostly nonsensical (though it makes more sense than doing it with volume bars). Since volume is generally held constant, analysis on this constant does not make sense. Again, it makes SOME sense, as tick size does not equal volume size, but they are usually pretty highly correlated.

[steve46 12]

So in response to the additional remarks I have a few things to say

 

First, regarding Friday's action right off the open....

 

There's a big difference between professionals and amateurs.....most of it relating to preparation....notice when you read posts here (on this site)....and this is true of every one of you....there is NO MENTION OF HOW TO PREPARE for the open.....try to find one example on this site....even after years of doing this, it still takes me about an hour to really prepare correctly to SEE and ANTICPATE what will happen on the open...most of "the problem" is that amateurs simply don't know how to prepare and what analysis to conduct...not my problem and I don't mean to make anyone an object lesson, but someone should point it out.

 

As to how to read the tape...on the thread that Josh mentioned I did post a bit of instruction about how to do it....as I have mentioed several times, I don't think it can be done on a website by posting instructions....I was just trying to give as much information about it as I could...To summarize, the process is straightforward...when price tests a key reference area, I monitor the Time & Sales strip, $VOLD & $ADD, and the NYSE Tick, shifting my attention from one to the other in about 5 second intervals...what I am looking for is to see whether the bid is held

 

How do you know if the bid is held

 

As price tests an area, you watch time & sales....if price tests from above, moving down you will see red as sellers try to take out that level....for beginniners the best way to do it is simply to watch color and not try to look at size....what you will see is the whole length of the strip turns red as seller assault that level...then you shift to the tick and you take note of the absolute level. you want to see the tick drop to near or just below zero on the first test. ADD/VOLD will provide the backdrop however they react slowing so you simply scan and take note of the levels...you should see red there as well initially...as buyers respond and take up the selling volume, you will see green coming into the T&S strip....then as you scan the tick you may see it continue down slightly, then reverse. Price may move slightly below your key reference area, however you should be looking for it to reverse after a slight excursion below a ledge or below your key level...at that point you should be looking for the TICK to move up, for both ADD and VOLD to hook or round over to the upside and for the T&S to "turn mostly green"...this suggests that the level is holding and may reverse (from down to up) as buyers come in to jump on board...

 

In this market that initial selling at the bottom or test of a key area is partly profesionals taking profit and closing positions, and partly new blood coming in (usually amateurs) who think that the move still has legs....if they are wrong (and ussually they are) that volume is absorbed as new buyers come in to create an imbalance toward the buy side...if you haven't gotten shaken out by the small excursion below the level, then you simply hold....in the ES market that initial move will usually be worth 2 points min before the first retrace. This is just part of what I try to teach my students, although to be honest it takes time, patience and a bit of repitition, before they really get it....

 

One final comment (for Josh)...the idea that a trader doesn't KNOW what is coming isn't entirely true....after you have done this for a while, you learn to anticipate cycical behavior in this market AND those of us who read the tape, can SEE both major reversals and minor pullbacks....its true we cannot know if a pullback or reversal has legs. but we CAN see it coming (I certainly can)....

 

Hope that helps.

 

Steve

Edited April 1, 2012 by steve46

[joshdance 10]

One final comment (for Josh)...the idea that a trader doesn't KNOW what is coming isn't entirely true....after you have done this for a while, you learn to anticipate cycical behavior in this market AND those of us who read the tape, can SEE both major reversals and minor pullbacks....its true we cannot know if a pullback or reversal has legs. but we CAN see it coming (I certainly can)....

 

Steve, I think we probably agree here more than not. Anyone who reads the Day Trading Emini thread will see many of us during the day posting in real time our market reads, and many of us are uncannily accurate much of the time. We can do this because we "see" and can anticipate what is likely to happen based on what is in front of us. Sometimes we are off, but on balance we are in the flow of the market. Did I mention that I/we do this real time, and not after it's already happened?

 

At any rate, my point was that trading is not about knowing, or being right, but about aligning oneself with what is likely to happen, given the current state of things. And I find it much easier to "see the legs" than to "see it coming." One is in response to the market, the other is in anticipation of the market. I prefer to respond, rather than anticipate, though in truth a bit of both are important IMO.

[joshdance 10]

there is NO MENTION OF HOW TO PREPARE for the open.....try to find one example on this site....even after years of doing this, it still takes me about an hour to really prepare correctly to SEE and ANTICPATE what will happen on the open...most of "the problem" is that amateurs simply don't know how to prepare and what analysis to conduct...

 

On the Day Trading Emini thread, Negotiator faithfully prepares and posts his analysis almost every morning. I do not post everything I do to prepare, but I do prepare, and I often post ideas, some of which turn out to be in line with the market, others not.

 

If you have some specifics about preparing for the open, I for one would love to hear them. I have my own way of preparing, but am always looking for ways to improve. I have not seen you post anything premarket as far as scenarios or ideas, though maybe you have and I missed them. But I'm not interested in specific ideas, but in process.

[steve46 12]

"Did I mention that I/we do this real time, and not after it's already happened?"

 

Yes Josh you have mentioned and it

 

and it is similar to the passive agressive infantile crap that you have posted in the past

 

Have I mentioned that before....?

Edited April 2, 2012 by steve46

[joshdance 10]

"Did I mention that I/we do this real time, and not after it's already happened?"

 

Yes Josh you have mentioned and it

 

and it is similar to the passive agressive infantile crap that you have posted in the past

 

Have I mentioned that before....?

 

Whoa steve! Relax man, why so touchy?

[onesmith 10]

It's not unusual to anticipate the NUMBER OF LEGS in a move before it begins. (I certainly CAN).

 

we cannot know if a pullback or reversal has legs. but we CAN see it coming (I certainly can)....

Edited June 10, 2012 by onesmith

[Vanguard 10]

EMini Watch traders two YM high prb cycle trades today which setup perfectly (rare to be sure as they were perfect) 1st off the 8 min tick charts. We took the 8:08 AM Pro candle '052 (buyer) long tested support 5 times and once the market open the Institutions buy programs too us to the cycle cross at and exit at 122 . We then had an overshoot on a Pro seller up bar took a small trade Short 5 C against the trend to test support and it was lunch time. IMO the most interesting setup was at 2:24 we get a Pro buyer under support in a trending market next candle breaks the bar and bang I got long '116 again with a tight stop at 099 yesterdays support but a second Pro buyer @3:02 at support sealed

the deal to the upside and we out on the cross '142 and retail sellers. Good day for sure, Reverses yesterday lifeless market.Good luck all Van

[Vanguard 10]

8/14 RTH trade summary: Well the better than expected Retail sales # got the bulls going

early on a test to the top. I took 3 trades this AM. 1st I was watching the Pro opening bar @ 9:20 on the 900 tick we were trending and had some bearish divergence Pre market

The bar breaks to the downside and we took it short @370 YM we had the cycle in our favor and the CCI was trending down , covered on the cyclical cross for 30 ticks into a Pullback. took the long off the PB on a reversal bad entry and fill I knew it but trade my plan as such and took a stop for 25 ticks on a retest and violation of PB support to 138.

10:43 we get a lot of unusual Professional activity normal type buyer bars are sellers and sellers are buyers . took last long for a overshoot at support and bullish divergence for 22

and it lunch weird trading today Pros fighting between themselves as were near the critical 1400 level. Better Sine wave has only completed cycle turn worth noting all others are missed cycles . Currently the trend is down for a retest to support at ,160. Gl all