Point and Figure Charts

[estate1997 10]

Is there anyone out there that works with Point and Figure charts?

I have gone through the posts and have not found a soul.

I have been working on a strategy for a long time and have been having some success.

https://picasaweb.google.com/estate1997/TradersLab?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLW9kv37kuSCZQ&feat=directlink

What I could use is some help with someone that is working with cycles, P&F charts, and does not think in the box.

I can trade the numbers by eye much better than the strategy and would like to partner up to get to the final version.

Some things you'll need;

Trade Station platform

a computer that can handle 40 plus charts plotting up to 60 days

and some coding experience.

 

Let me know.

 

Tams,

Any interest? I value your input.

[Tams 20]

Is there anyone out there that works with Point and Figure charts?

I have gone through the posts and have not found a soul.

I have been working on a strategy for a long time and have been having some success.

https://picasaweb.google.com/estate1997/TradersLab?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLW9kv37kuSCZQ&feat=directlink

What I could use is some help with someone that is working with cycles, P&F charts, and does not think in the box.

I can trade the numbers by eye much better than the strategy and would like to partner up to get to the final version.

Some things you'll need;

Trade Station platform

a computer that can handle 40 plus charts plotting up to 60 days

and some coding experience.

 

Let me know.

 

Tams,

Any interest? I value your input.

 

you can post your ideas here and we can walk through them...

[rock 10]

The only successful trader I knew of used it to trade longer trends i.e. weekly, quarterly. Back when I used to be on the manhunt for indicators, I read a few magazine articles from traders or interviews of traders who used P&F. They may have been in Futures magazine or SFO magazine.

[estate1997 10]

Tams,

Here is the concept.

For each length on a P&F chart it MUST complete its' cycle before the market can move on higher or lower.

When a group of cycles come into phase, ie: they all read the same number from my indicator the market will move either up or down till it completes the next highest cycle.

Here is my problem.

I am not a professional programmer and I have been working on this for 14 months. I have spoken to two different programmers and they either hate P&F charts or can't get a handle on the concept. The entries are easy coding. It is the exits that I am stuck on. From the screen shots I posted above I hope you can see the potential. I can read it but I haven't been able to code the exits.

What I need is a confidential off line partner, paid or not, that has coding experience that can code a triple sort from 40 plus groups of numbers. The second sort is dependent on the results of the first sort and the third sort is dependent on the results of the second sort. From the last sort the exit can be obtained.

After that code in DLL and lock the code down. Then work on the money management.

Beyond the concept I am reluctant to post any more information than the concept as I don't want to kill the goose if you catch my drift.

If your up for it, lets do it. If not maybe you know someone.

Thank you and have a Merry Christmas

[MightyMouse 12]

Tams,

Here is the concept.

For each length on a P&F chart it MUST complete its' cycle before the market can move on higher or lower.

When a group of cycles come into phase, ie: they all read the same number from my indicator the market will move either up or down till it completes the next highest cycle.

Here is my problem.

I am not a professional programmer and I have been working on this for 14 months. I have spoken to two different programmers and they either hate P&F charts or can't get a handle on the concept. The entries are easy coding. It is the exits that I am stuck on. From the screen shots I posted above I hope you can see the potential. I can read it but I haven't been able to code the exits.

What I need is a confidential off line partner, paid or not, that has coding experience that can code a triple sort from 40 plus groups of numbers. The second sort is dependent on the results of the first sort and the third sort is dependent on the results of the second sort. From the last sort the exit can be obtained.

After that code in DLL and lock the code down. Then work on the money management.

Beyond the concept I am reluctant to post any more information than the concept as I don't want to kill the goose if you catch my drift.

If your up for it, lets do it. If not maybe you know someone.

Thank you and have a Merry Christmas

 

I assume you are aware that there is a back testing issues with PnF in tradestation. Or, at least there used to be.

[estate1997 10]

There are many draw backs to P&F charts. One is you will get perfect plots when the bar closes leading to euphoria in a back test with historical data. In addition once you start bringing data in from other charts you are unable to back test as with any type of chart.

The main benefit is two fold. Market makers do not see or don't care what you see so they can't manipulate signals on you and get you entering the opposite direction of where they want to take the market. I am sure you have all seen if you have color changing indicators where they will tap a sell signal and take the market up or vice versa..

Like in the post above, the main benefit is on the long charts. With an extended range stochastic indicator the tops and bottoms are simple to pick out.

What I like about them if you are into cycles is that you can see when the market comes into phase and you will then know that it will start to run. Add multiple charts and you can see just how far the run will go to the tick. Very nice stuff to know. With two short lines of code and a sharp eye this can be picked up.

Time to go.I'll return.

[Tams 20]

Tams,

Here is the concept.

For each length on a P&F chart it MUST complete its' cycle before the market can move on higher or lower.

When a group of cycles come into phase, ie: they all read the same number from my indicator the market will move either up or down till it completes the next highest cycle.

Here is my problem.

I am not a professional programmer and I have been working on this for 14 months. I have spoken to two different programmers and they either hate P&F charts or can't get a handle on the concept. The entries are easy coding. It is the exits that I am stuck on. From the screen shots I posted above I hope you can see the potential. I can read it but I haven't been able to code the exits.

What I need is a confidential off line partner, paid or not, that has coding experience that can code a triple sort from 40 plus groups of numbers. The second sort is dependent on the results of the first sort and the third sort is dependent on the results of the second sort. From the last sort the exit can be obtained.

After that code in DLL and lock the code down. Then work on the money management.

Beyond the concept I am reluctant to post any more information than the concept as I don't want to kill the goose if you catch my drift.

If your up for it, lets do it. If not maybe you know someone.

Thank you and have a Merry Christmas

 

interesting thoughts.

 

let me digest it a bit first....

 

 

 

ps. you will need to rewrite the logic in a code-able manner.

[estate1997 10]

interesting thoughts.

 

let me digest it a bit first....

 

 

 

ps. you will need to rewrite the logic in a code-able manner.

 

Tams,

I am reluctant to post the code in an open forum and after rereading my posts, what you are looking for besides a silver platter is there. It may be a bit cryptic and there is one missing function that is the magic that makes it simple to read but it will get you heading in the right direction.

If you wonder why it has taken this long to get to this point it is because I started with an indicator that would plot up to 92 plots per bar giving 92 raised to the power of 92 possibilities. Finding the needle was not easy.

Here is the snippet of the sending code. I can say no more about that.

 

If RevSize=4 then begin

Value10=GVSetNamedDouble("Magic_4",Magic);

Value11=GVSetNamedDouble("ExH_4",ExH);

Value12=GVSetNamedDouble("ExL_4",ExL);

Value13=GVSetNamedDouble("Bar_Color_4",Bar_Color);

Value14=GVSetNamedDouble("ExS_4",ExS);

Value17=GVSetNamedDouble("ExS_Color_4",ExS_Color);

Value18=GVSetNamedDouble("HL_Color_4",HL_Color);

If you embrace my philosophy that there is a group that sets the highs and lows for the day and watch how the price is manipulated by market makers to get people and programs to do certain things it will take a lot of the stress out of trading.

Code your indicators to flash at decision points and you will eventually see it.

Just a suggestion.

[Tams 20]

Tams,

I am reluctant to post the code in an open forum and after rereading my posts, what you are looking for besides a silver platter is there. It may be a bit cryptic and there is one missing function that is the magic that makes it simple to read but it will get you heading in the right direction.

If you wonder why it has taken this long to get to this point it is because I started with an indicator that would plot up to 92 plots per bar giving 92 raised to the power of 92 possibilities. Finding the needle was not easy.

Here is the snippet of the sending code. I can say no more about that.

 

If RevSize=4 then begin

Value10=GVSetNamedDouble("Magic_4",Magic);

Value11=GVSetNamedDouble("ExH_4",ExH);

Value12=GVSetNamedDouble("ExL_4",ExL);

Value13=GVSetNamedDouble("Bar_Color_4",Bar_Color);

Value14=GVSetNamedDouble("ExS_4",ExS);

Value17=GVSetNamedDouble("ExS_Color_4",ExS_Color);

Value18=GVSetNamedDouble("HL_Color_4",HL_Color);

If you embrace my philosophy that there is a group that sets the highs and lows for the day and watch how the price is manipulated by market makers to get people and programs to do certain things it will take a lot of the stress out of trading.

Code your indicators to flash at decision points and you will eventually see it.

Just a suggestion.

 

thanks... I will give it more thoughts over the holidays.

[mdszj 10]

Estate,

 

Here is a site you may be interested in if you work w/ PnF charts:

 

Brain Dead Trading in the NOW as easy as Tic-Tac-Dough (it is a paid site and I subscribe to it). But I have nothing to gain and it makes no difference to me if you subscribe or not.

 

He also has a free public charts site on stockcharts in the public chart lists, it is the first site listed called Brain Dead Simple.

 

Hope this helps.

[SunTrader 10]

...... Market makers do not see or don't care what you see so they can't manipulate signals on you ........

 

including MA's and Stochastic crossovers, RSI ob/os levels etc etc.

 

They have far better use of their time without having to bother watching those things.

[mcoyne 10]

these are great for showing the medium term trend. good signals for entry but must accept large drawdowns. should be used for initial change in trend and entry should then be at at major support and resistance

[peterjerome 10]

Is there anyone out there that works with Point and Figure charts? I have gone through the posts and have not found a soul.

 

Tams,

I've posted 80 times, mainly on PnF...surprised you haven't come across any of those in your search. try advanced search for user = "peterjerome". you may find something interesting.

 

I use a simple 2 step (not necessarily easy) methodology.

1- PnF chart combined with EFS programming used to identify 'breakout' candidates.

(I am NOT a programmer but cut & paste what I need).

 

2- Standard chart used for entry & exit

 

using Interactive Data(eSignal) for many years. very reliable data. Not interested in changing platforms. 40+ charts too many for me. I use 2 charts for setup, entry / exit.

 

I understand the benefit of a trading partner, i.e. (1 + 1 = 3), however I gave up searching for the holy grail (too much M. P. ) many years back and began using PnF plus Standard bar charts to successfully make my living.

I'll follow your posts.

 

good luck,

Peter.

[Tams 20]

Tams,

I've posted 80 times, mainly on PnF...surprised you haven't come across any of those in your search. try advanced search for user = "peterjerome". you may find something interesting.

 

I use a simple 2 step (not necessarily easy) methodology.

1- PnF chart combined with EFS programming used to identify 'breakout' candidates.

(I am NOT a programmer but cut & paste what I need).

 

2- Standard chart used for entry & exit

 

using Interactive Data(eSignal) for many years. very reliable data. Not interested in changing platforms. 40+ charts too many for me. I use 2 charts for setup, entry / exit.

 

I understand the benefit of a trading partner, i.e. (1 + 1 = 3), however I gave up searching for the holy grail (too much M. P. ) many years back and began using PnF plus Standard bar charts to successfully make my living.

I'll follow your posts.

 

good luck,

Peter.

the post was by estate1997, not TAMS.

 

I remember you, I remember you asked me a lot of easylanguage questions.

[estate1997 10]

including MA's and Stochastic crossovers, RSI ob/os levels etc etc.

 

They have far better use of their time without having to bother watching those things.

 

SunTrader,

They may not watch them but they sure know how to manipulate price to get people to go the wrong way and make money. Does a 96% failure rate sound familiar.

My views are from the reality as I see it and I believe it is well founded.

[SunTrader 10]

SunTrader,

They may not watch them but they sure know how to manipulate price to get people to go the wrong way and make money. Does a 96% failure rate sound familiar.

My views are from the reality as I see it and I believe it is well founded.

All I can say then is I have a different reality.

 

Market makers for instance run stops, when it is to their benefit anyway.

 

Do they know or care if one indicator was signalling someone to enter a trade while a completely different indicator was signalling to another to exit, at that particular price and time. NO.

 

There are probably by now thousands of ways to determine entry/exit points. The powers that be cannot possible know them all to manipulate price - or for very long - before market forces correct it.

 

Trader incompetence is all that is needed to explain the very high percentage of losers.

 

Markets have always worked that way and always will. It has to otherwise we would all be living next door to Bill Gates.

[mdszj 10]

estate/all

 

Saw your thx, glad I could help.

 

I just thought of another info source on Pnf charts - check out the Dorsey Wright site, just google it. They even have a free pnf online course you can take.

 

hope this helps...

[estate1997 10]

All I can say then is I have a different reality.

 

Market makers for instance run stops, when it is to their benefit anyway.

 

Do they know or care if one indicator was signalling someone to enter a trade while a completely different indicator was signalling to another to exit, at that particular price and time. NO.

 

There are probably by now thousands of ways to determine entry/exit points. The powers that be cannot possible know them all to manipulate price - or for very long - before market forces correct it.

 

Trader incompetence is all that is needed to explain the very high percentage of losers.

 

Markets have always worked that way and always will. It has to otherwise we would all be living next door to Bill Gates.

You are mostly correct in everything you say and 100% correct in your reality. If everyone saw things the same way it would be a very boring life. Diversity in people is what makes life fun. Can we agree to disagree?

 

Back to the forum;

Anyway, I found a programer and he was duly impressed with the results.

Its' not Bill Gates but I'll settle with a small percentage of his fortune.

 

Thanks to all and have a Merry Christmas

[peterjerome 10]

...I just thought of another info source on Pnf charts - check out the Dorsey Wright site,...

 

All serious traders...consider adding Mr. Dorsey's book to your collection.

 

"Point & Figure Charting- the Essential Application for Forecasting and Tracking Market Prices".

 

it's all about Supply & Demand...this book will never leave your desktop.

 

peter.

[peterjerome 10]

Here's EFS code for PnF charts that will locate the 'Catapult' ,a high probability pattern.

also calculates target price. see attached chart for example of pattern.

 

read dorseys' book, mentioned earlier, for info on many patterns.

peter

 

 

/*Pedro's PnF catapult pattern. triple top break followed by double top break*/

 

function preMain() {

setStudyTitle("Catapult");

setPriceStudy(true);

}

var iCntr = 0;

var vText = "Catapult = $";

var vSound = "bullet";

var vTarget = 0;

var nState = null;

 

function main() {

 

nState = getBarState();

if(nState == BARSTATE_NEWBAR) {

iCntr += 1;

 

// Catapult Pattern

if(close() > open()

&& high() > high(-1)

&& high(-2) >= high(-4)

&& high(-4) == high(-6)) {

vTarget = (high(-2) - low(-2)+1) *3 + low(-2);

drawTextRelative(0, high() +1, vText + vTarget, Color.white, Color.black, Text.BOTTOM | Text.RIGHT, "Consolas", 12,"Catapult"+iCntr);

drawLineRelative(0, low() -1, -0, high()+1, PS_SOLID, 4, Color.black, "Catapult"+iCntr);

//if(iCntr <= 10) Alert.playSound(vSound);

Alert.playSound(vSound);

iCntr += 1;

} } }

[sneo 10]

I highly recommend du Plessis' "The Definitive Guide to Point and Figure". There is a chapter that discuss about backtesting on Point and Figure. It breaksdown P&F patterns to the basic building blocks.

[peterjerome 10]

I highly recommend du Plessis' "The Definitive Guide to Point and Figure". There is a chapter that discuss about backtesting on Point and Figure. It breaksdown P&F patterns to the basic building blocks.

 

agree sneo.

Jeremy takes supply/demand to the next level. he is a pioneer in use of moving averages & bollinger bands on PnF charts,,,a 'must have' for the serious PnF trader.

 

peter.

[barostni 10]

you can post your ideas here and we can walk through them...

 

Hi, I use point and figure charts

[peterjerome 10]

Hi, I use point and figure charts

 

barostni,

tell a little about how you use PnF.

 

how do you use PnF in your daily routine?

e.g. searching for breakout candidates, determine supply/demand, market direction.(bullish or bearish trends. do you use the bullish percent PnF charts (free) on stockcharts.com to determine sector rotation?

 

peter.

[barostni 10]

barostni,

tell a little about how you use PnF.

 

how do you use PnF in your daily routine?

e.g. searching for breakout candidates, determine supply/demand, market direction.(bullish or bearish trends. do you use the bullish percent PnF charts (free) on stockcharts.com to determine sector rotation?

 

peter.

 

I use p&f in my long term trend trading. I use it in everything. market direction,sector direction,supply and demand,95% of my system,if not 100% is based on p & f charts..I use investors intelligence web site and sometimes stockcharts.com