Divergence Trading Strategy- Advanced

[Do Or Die 10]

Everything depends upon context and details. Share the code for indicator shown in earlier post of yours, since you call yourself highly knowledgeable how about sharing it with forum.

[UrmaBlume 10]

Everything depends upon context and details. Share the code for indicator shown in earlier post of yours, since you call yourself highly knowledgeable how about sharing it with forum.

 

Anybody with any understanding already knows the code just like they already know the code for Delta Bars.

 

Your "Advanced" strategy isn't and neither is the anti-intellectual nature of your off topic rants.

 

The topic is "Divergence Trading Strategy - Advanced." Why keep the discussion to a decades old approach that has long fallen out of favor and is laughed at by the 3%.

[MightyMouse 12]

Anybody with any understanding already knows the code just like they already know the code for Delta Bars.

 

Your "Advanced" strategy isn't and neither is the anti-intellectual nature of your off topic rants.

 

The topic is "Divergence Trading Strategy - Advanced." Why keep the discussion to a decades old approach that has long fallen out of favor and is laughed at by the 3%.

 

Show that the new approach isn't as funny as the old approach. Without such proof, they are equally funny. It's time for the acid test.

[Adrian 10]

@URMA prove statistically to us that your order flow method is superior to regular divergence. It would genuinely be fascinating to see just how different it was if done under proper testing. Seems your website is completely devoid of any validation of the accuracy of your tools. Only a fool would buy something without one skeric of proof of how useful they were, and only a bigger fool would actually lease them, under almost any conditions.

[UrmaBlume 10]

There is a very easy way to find out about me or my indicators.

 

There is a trading room called Trading Addicts. There are usually about 100 members in attendance.

 

While I have no equity or interest in the room, it is operated on my indicators and my indicators alone. Many of the members also use my tools and Eric Utely, the moderator, calls trades in real times and the last time I talked to members of the room Eric had suffered 3 losing days in seven weeks.

 

They have a very inexpensive week long trial, they make money and anybody can ask anybody in the room about me, my indicators or the services I provide.

 

Before you bash me or my products which you know nothing about I ask that you ask the whole room and the moderator about what they think of my character, my service and my products.

 

The reason this thread is about Price/RSI is because the OP knows nothing better. The above text suggests something better and offers a way to verify it in real time by a hundred people with deep experience with me and my tools.

 

I make no apologies for being in the software business or for its success. I have received no complaints or requests for refunds from my customers and here is a way you can talk to some of them who either see or use my gear every day.

 

Not all sofrtware vendors are charlatans and certainly some packages offer more value than others. The fact is that everybody here, including both me and you, buy/lease market related sofrtware products of one kind or another.

 

I say there are much stronger approaches to divergence trading than price/price and above is a way you can get a handful of opinions from profitable traders that see it everyday.

 

 

UrmaBlume

[Marsupilami 10]

Using divergence between price and classical indicators can work very well so let's not bash the method, I'm sure there are lots of members who want to see more by Do or die.

 

I feel that market delta is way overhyped. Before market delta, it was the TRIN, the Tick, the Premium... nothing wrong with new developements but you can make money with very simple stuff.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Marsupilami

[Adrian 10]

@URMA I'm not bashing you at all. Merely seeing a new tool and asking for you to show us how it is superior to the traditional price divergence method. Nothing complicated from your perspective based on the posts you are making. Do you not trade your own tools? Do you not have a track record or back tests of your own that proved to you they were superior before you started trading with them? Without any of this information your words would ring hollow surely? So I sam assuming you're an intelligent guy and have all the backup work to prove what you are sellling? When I see a website that offers no guidance in that area, it usually means the tool has little true value. A couple of flashy charts on a website doesn't really prove much. I'm sure you'd agree with that. And while a tool isn't a system, a tool still has to have some level of usefulness for it to have any chance of working in real time.

[UrmaBlume 10]

@URMA I'm not bashing you at all. Merely seeing a new tool and asking for you to show us how it is superior to the traditional price divergence method. Nothing complicated from your perspective based on the posts you are making. Do you not trade your own tools? Do you not have a track record or back tests of your own that proved to you they were superior before you started trading with them? Without any of this information your words would ring hollow surely? So I sam assuming you're an intelligent guy and have all the backup work to prove what you are sellling? When I see a website that offers no guidance in that area, it usually means the tool has little true value. A couple of flashy charts on a website doesn't really prove much. I'm sure you'd agree with that. And while a tool isn't a system, a tool still has to have some level of usefulness for it to have any chance of working in real time.

 

Because of liability, SEC and CFTC compliance issues I can't imagine any sensible vendor who would make such claims and know of none who do. Does CQG, TradeStation, Ninja, Market Delta, Think or Swim make such claims? No and they take great care to avoid making any statements that even sound like what your are looking for. I have offered references from those using my tools and offered a site where you can see them in action. My customers are my best reference and, so far, none have complained or asked for refunds.

 

There are 10 indicators in our indicator pack and they are described here and here. I started posting in this thread to discuss different kinds of divergence trading other than sameO, sameO Price/Price divergences and made no mention of my site or my products until Do made it an issue.

 

cheers

 

UrmaBlume

[bobcollett 10]

Hi UrmaBlume

What happens if the market you trade does NOT offer volume?

Regards

bobc

[Adrian 10]

@URMA Thanks for answering what I needed to know. You clearly do not trade, nor, by definition use your own tools. Neither the SEC nor the CFTC stop anyone quoting performance numbers, and many do. In fact a massive number do, and all perfectly legally. The fact you quote data providers as an example (who do NOT market trading methods at all) shows you are a neophyte trader or market participant, so I will therefore give no further consideration to anything you market.

 

@Bobc Yes, his tools all fall over if one wishes to trade FX, due to no volume So another reason to simply bypass all his tools.

[UrmaBlume 10]

Hi UrmaBlume

What happens if the market you trade does NOT offer volume?

Regards

bobc

 

Since we believe that it is an imbalance between buying and selling volumes that propels price - when we want to trade currencies we trade either futures and/or etfs and, indeed, our tools are not suited to forex trading. Some of my cusomters have, however, used reads from balance of trade indications from futures contracts to trade forex.

 

The traders I manage do not trade forex at all ever and not just because you can't see volume or any other balance of trade or money flow. Some here know about the "other issues" I am talking about with reference to forex, and some here have no idea.

 

UrmaBlume

[Adrian 10]

@ URMA Is there a reason you wish to keep them uninformed on the 'other issues'? Seems particularly odd since you and your trsader associates never trade FX, so why would it matter sharing?

 

I also know an FX trader, who makes money almost every day he decides to trade, and almost never has a losing day. So for him, the 'other issues' must be pretty special that he wants to trade TFX rather than avoid it. LOL.

[UrmaBlume 10]

@URMA Thanks for answering what I needed to know. You clearly do not trade, nor, by definition use your own tools. Neither the SEC nor the CFTC stop anyone quoting performance numbers, and many do.QUOTE]

 

The companies that post numbers required for compliance are not software vendors they are money managers. Software vendors whether they offer data or not are loathe to make performance claims because when a customer can't get the results posted or uses the software incorrectly, on a different market or time frame it opens the software vendor to certain liablilities. I would ask you to post any such claims or records posted by any credible software vendor.

 

If anybody here has any real questions or points relative to this discussion contact information, including phone is on my site and there is a Skype link here.

 

As to trading myself, I both trade and manage others who also trade. Below is a shot of my desk and all of the indicators on all 12 screens are indicators I wrote - not all of them are available to the public but I did, indeed, write them all.

 

Does this desk look like it is used by someone who doesn't trade?

 

Please click to enlarge image

 

 

 

UrmaBlume

[Adrian 10]

@URMA The photo actually looks like the desk of a 'wannabe' trader. Someone who thinks they work for a bank and wants to impress their friends. Now a real trader, such as say Al Brooks, he trades from a notebook, just one screen, and one 5 minute chart. He's been doing it every day for 10-20 years to my understanding. I would definitely NOT want to give my money to a guy who's trading desk looked like yours. The correlation between screen numbers/indicators displayed, almost certainly varies inversely with profitability. You might be a great coder and perhaps analyst, I really have no idea on that though. I'm impressed by people who have an idea, which they are willing to sell/share, and have the ability to show how well the indicator works compared to current or past methods, and why it is outperforming. This is NOT done by showing 1 or 2 chart examples, or simply saying 'my indicators are great and yours are no good';.

[Do Or Die 10]

The companies that post numbers required for compliance are not software vendors they are money managers. Software vendors whether they offer data or not are loathe to make performance claims because when a customer can't get the results posted or uses the software incorrectly, on a different market or time frame it opens the software vendor to certain liablilities.

 

Actually no Google will be your friend to dig up disclaimer and disclosure guidelines. Though you may like to pay a lawyer for running the business a little professionally.

 

All credible vendors (inclusive charting software) mention that their software is sold "as it is" without any warranties whatsoever and dismissing any claims of loss that may occur from use of that software.

 

Also, "past performance is not indicative of future results".

 

Sine you mentioned you are managing other peoples money, I'm curious with whom are you regulated.

[Adrian 10]

ps @URMA Did you know your trackball mice are breeding? :rofl:

[UrmaBlume 10]

Actually no Google will be your friend to dig up disclaimer and disclosure guidelines. Though you may like to pay a lawyer for running the business a little professionally.All credible vendors (inclusive charting software) mention that their software is sold "as it is" without any warranties whatsoever and dismissing any claims of loss that may occur from use of that software.Also, "past performance is not indicative of future results".Sine you mentioned you are managing other peoples money, I'm curious with whom are you regulated.

 

If you check the Terms of Service, Disclosure Statements, Statements of Risk on my sites and the licenses to my products you will find that all of that and more is included. But since your coments are based on zero knowledge of me, my sites or my products you wouldn't already know that.

 

If you check the post you will see that I mentioned that I was managing other traders not other peoples money and if those traders are trading my money there is no regulatory requirement especially if the amount in each account is under a certain threshold but here again if you knew anything about relevant regulations you would already know that.

 

The subject here is supposed to be Divergence trading and from the sum of your posts you seem to know as little about that as you do the other topics you raise.

 

UrMaBlume

[Adrian 10]

The topic is divergence URMA but there is little upside for end users if you come and take it off on a tangent by presenting black box indicators that show zero proof of being any different to price based indicators. You might know they are different, and know they perform better, and even if you can show users they do, so what? No one can buy them, and even if they could, it would be really bad advice to use a black box indicator to trade ones own money. Any long term professional will tell you that. So if you wish to add real insight to the divergence topic, you need to tackle it a different way. I'm sure if you add something of real interest and value, that people will be encouraged to ask questions rather than throw sand on you You must remember you are a marketer, so it places an even greater burtden on you if you choose to participate by showing your own tools.

[Do Or Die 10]

If you check the Terms of Service, Disclosure Statements, Statements of Risk on my sites and the licenses to my products you will find that all of that and more is included. But since your coments are based on zero knowledge of me, my sites or my products you wouldn't already know that.

 

If you check the post you will see that I mentioned that I was managing other traders not other peoples money and if those traders are trading my money there is no regulatory requirement especially if the amount in each account is under a certain threshold but here again if you knew anything about relevant regulations you would already know that.

 

The subject here is supposed to be Divergence trading and from the sum of your posts you seem to know as little about that as you do the other topics you raise.

 

UrMaBlume

 

Ohh well, I have not visited your site yet, because If I do, it will tempt me to post the flaws here. That in turn adds more off-topic posts. It all started with

1. Your black box indicators

2. Your claim that my method is BS

 

The first point you need to take care yourself, if you are promoting something so vehemently whats the harm in maintaining live log. You *know* it works, right?

 

For the second, I welcome all critics. That will only help in making this thread a hit

[onesmith 10]

Detrending calibrates a trend to zero on a horizontal axis.

detrended_price = price minus it's average_price.

 

This is the basis for many of the indicators based solely on price. Divergence from price based indicators is a statiscally valid measurement of change in trend.

[bobcollett 10]

Detrending calibrates a trend to zero on a horizontal axis.

detrended_price = price minus it's average_price.

 

This is the basis for many of the indicators based solely on price. Divergence from price based indicators is a statiscally valid measurement of change in trend.

 

Hi onesmith,

What are you talking about?

Kind regards

bobc

[onesmith 10]

bob,

 

Divergence works (even when based solely on price) because a typical indicator measures trend. Thus divergence indicates price isn't trending as strongly as it was and price is approaching a reversal.

[Do Or Die 10]

Hi onesmith,

What are you talking about?

Kind regards

bobc

 

"Thus divergence indicates price isn't trending as strongly as it was and price is approaching a reversal."

 

Hi Bob,

 

I explained the same concept in detail as internal relative strength of a stock. You may like to check this thread, from which this strategy follows.

 

Edited December 11, 2011 by Do Or Die

[MightyMouse 12]

Let thou amongst us who hath posted a live trade cast the first criticism at UrmaBlume

[UrmaBlume 10]

Detrending calibrates a trend to zero on a horizontal axis.

detrended_price = price minus it's average_price.This is the basis for many of the indicators based solely on price. Divergence from price based indicators is a statiscally valid measurement of change in trend.

 

Onesmith, thanks, welcome.

 

That (price - average price) is indeed a reasonable measure of force/volatility - I dispute its efficacy when compared to price vs non price inputs at points of divergence or change.

 

Certainly you are correct when you point out that "Divergence from price based indicators is a statiscally valid measurement of change in trend" The point I am trying to make here is that it is not the divegence of optimal efficacy.

 

Hey Do or Adriana - this is where the discussion should be.

 

Thanks again Onesmith

 

cheers

 

pat