Does Trading Get Enjoyable?

[mslk 10]

i've been actively trading for 6 months now, making more losses than wins down on my account. i feel drained after everything i have learned its not working out as i hoped. some say everyone goes through this when new to trading. i am also designing my own system which is proving more difficult than i thought.

 

what i am asking is when do you know time is up or the tide has turned?

 

thanks

-mslk

[jpennybags 11]

M,

 

You are asking a question to which only you have the answer. Keep a few things in mind though.

 

1. 6 months is not a great deal of time, though if you are consistently on the wrong side of the trade it can feel like it. Much of what you need to learn comes with time at your trading desk, and getting a feel for the market. Consider your burn rate… can you make it another 12 months... do you need to scale back your position size?

 

2. No one is holding a gun to your head… you don't need to trade your hard earned cash to learn. Consider paper trading for the next few months. If you can't get profitable paper trading, you have no business trading live. Without money involved it then becomes just a game. It's much easier to learn while playing a game.

 

3. If you don't keep good records of your trades… start (screen prints for entry and exits, notes about why you are entering/exiting a trade, stop placement and movement). A daily trade journal is not a bad idea either. Good records will help you refine your skills when linked to a journal. A journal can also help with the mental side of the trade.

 

4. It has been my experience with any learning experience that progress and achievement comes in stages. You struggle, you learn, you get frustrated, and then it happens… you move to the next level. You get stuck there too… more struggle, more learning, more frustration. That's the way it is… if you're not enjoying it, you may be better off working for someone else.

 

5. If anyone told you this would be easy… they lied.

 

Best of good fortunes either way.

[TheNegotiator 13]

If you are going to be successful at it, you should be passionate about trading. You don't always have to enjoy all aspects of it though.

 

Let me ask you a question. Do you believe your failures are due to inability to apply what you've learnt effectively or is what you've learnt a less than comprehensive picture of the market?

 

Trading does take time to master. My suggestion is do what you can right now to be organised and disciplined in your approach. Create a routine and stick to it. That'll help you notice what's going on around you, notice when things have changed and also notice things which the market does pretty consistently.

[rforexdad 10]

i've been actively trading for 6 months now, making more losses than wins down on my account. i feel drained after everything i have learned its not working out as i hoped. some say everyone goes through this when new to trading. i am also designing my own system which is proving more difficult than i thought.

 

what i am asking is when do you know time is up or the tide has turned?

 

thanks

-mslk

 

I made 1200 pips in the last month...but now I am trying a different technique

I want to make 20 pips daily with a 4 day trading cycle...Do not trade on Fridays

Only trade from Monday-Thursday in the London session.

 

Once I am consistent....I shall increase the position size.

Right now I am playing at 30K lot size....

So now the target it 80 pips every week which should amount to $1000 a month.

 

slowly I shall increase this and hope to reach $5000 a month in 6 months....not by increasing the pips...but by increasing the position size.

 

Why do I write this....message ?

This is one style of trading which I feel will be profitable and I know two traders who are adopting this style and are very successfull.

 

Less pips but larger position size.

[JohnTaylorHK 10]

Trading live is different to paper trading. This is largely psychological, but there are a few mechanical differences in the way demo servers behave versus live servers.

 

My suggestion would be to analyse every trade against your strategy:

- Was it entered according to a plan?

- Was the entry point correct?

- Was the exit point correct?

 

If you are not making a 2:1 win to loss after 6 months, reconsider your strategy. If you are making a 2:1, and still losing money, then your exits or stops would be suspect.

 

Analyse your trading signals. Would the entries get you in at a disadvantageous price, whilts looking good on the chart? Similarly for exits.

 

Do you use market orders or limit orders? If the latter, consider the former. If you are sure of the setup, limit orders are proactive, market orders reactive.

 

My first big losses came in futures trading, which caused me to step out and paper trade for almost 18 months. Remember 90%+ of day traders are not successful in the long term. Early success leads to overconfidence. Early failure leads to the feelings you have right now.

[mslk 10]

thanks everyone for the input ... i figure trading will get enjoyable when i start to see success. so all my effort is into making some profitable trades. do you see anything wrong with this approach?

 

how many strategies do you have trade with? do you continue to 'go back to the well' with the same strategy over and over again? or are you looking for new ones?

 

thanks

-mslk

[jpennybags 11]

i figure trading will get enjoyable when i start to see success. so all my effort is into making some profitable trades.

-mslk

 

We all come to this business with different skill sets, beliefs and constitutions; some helpful… some not. Consider the market(s) as a giant biosphere filled with myriad creatures each working out their evolution or extinction. The first 2 years is more about survival and evolving than making money. The goal is to become consistent as a predator, forager, or scavenger… what ever kind of creature you are (or are to become). My personal experience has been that before I could step forward, I had to step back to learn and/or unlearn notions or concepts. If we were born into trading by trader parents, and developed as traders in our formative years and had lived our lives in the biosphere, this "unlearning" would not be necessary.

 

In my "other" life I was skilled at making something from nothing. I was well compensated for being able to absorb information on the fly, juggle multiple tasks, and force issues. As a trader only the 1st is truly helpful, the 2nd can be a distraction, and the 3rd is hazardous. I had things to unlearn, and unfortunately I have to get up every day and remind myself of the hazards of having too much going on, and forcing the issue. It gets easier with time.

 

I've shared all this, just to make the point that sometimes it's not about what you learn but what you must unlearn that brings success… learn to love the struggle.

[MightyMouse 12]

Your perception of what trading is changes as you mature as a trader. Trading does not change.

[RealDemo 10]

what i am asking is when do you know time is up or the tide has turned?

 

I have been very near the 'time up' point several times, and for all different reasons. Some were financial, some were from just the shear frustration of it all.

 

Novice traders, in whos company I count myself, have everything against them at the start and most of that comes from themselves. That understanding of what it really takes to win this gig is not apparent in those early stages where we have a susceptibility to be blinded slightly by the bling. Well I did anyway.

 

Some people like setting goals and if not reached within a certain time they throw in the towel at that point. For others there is no finish and they may well end up going on too long, crashing and burning in denial of the truth that they would make a much better job of doing something else instead.

 

Trading is seriously one of the few occupations you have to really sit down with yourself and talk honestly, both of you. :crap:

[steve46 12]

Does trading get enjoyable

 

Yes of course....once you have done all the basic work...the preparation, the planning, the research.....the maintenance of your system....the logistics, putting in a software order program that is reliable....putting your risk management in place....testing your system.....obtaining a track record that shows you are profitable...

 

Yeah it can be enjoyable...because you have done all the work and you know that in the morning you are probably going to make money....

 

Yes....it comes at a price...and if you are willing to pay up....(see above) then it can be very enjoyable....

[zdo 20]

This thread still going?

 

mslk, et al. some questions

have the markets ‘become’ your parents?

 

are you trying to trade 'methods that work' period

or

are you trying to trade 'methods that work for you' ?

 

have you questioned the assumption that losing is frustrating and makes you sad and that

winning is not frustrating and will lead to happiness ?

have you considered that ironically profitable trades can also make you feel sad?

 

///

go jump the ‘behavioral economics’ fence, bust on in the door. But make sure you keep in mind where the exits are (and be ready to shoulder crash through the wall) so you can get out if you need to

 

:off topic:

Speaking of ‘remembering’, bobc if you’re around, you asked about a ‘solution’. The following is not a solution, but it is where a solution will ultimately emanate from...

Remembering to Remember | ZeroHedge

 

“Start Afresh – Hootless”

mslk, how do you start afresh? how do you get hootless?

:missy:

[zdo 20]

what i am asking is when do you know time is up or the tide has turned?

is trading a challenge worthy of you?

[henryduncan12 10]

Trading get enjoyable if we think that loss and profit is two very important aspect of trading. I get it enjoyable if get profit sometimes but it is not always. While most of the time loss come in my account.

[abroaduni 10]

Hi Budy,

I would like to say you that,there is no need to worry about it.You are new in trading and difficulties come in starting in every field generally.So,I would like to suggest you that keep going and take suggestions from business and trading experts also.

[Dutchie 10]

I made 1200 pips in the last month...but now I am trying a different technique

I want to make 20 pips daily with a 4 day trading cycle...Do not trade on Fridays

Only trade from Monday-Thursday in the London session.

 

Once I am consistent....I shall increase the position size.

Right now I am playing at 30K lot size....

So now the target it 80 pips every week which should amount to $1000 a month.

 

slowly I shall increase this and hope to reach $5000 a month in 6 months....not by increasing the pips...but by increasing the position size.

 

Why do I write this....message ?

This is one style of trading which I feel will be profitable and I know two traders who are adopting this style and are very successfull.

 

Less pips but larger position size.

 

Same here....

 

I started out with merely $ 100,- making 25 pips a day. I have been able to double my account every 2 - 3 months simply by trading larger positions as my account grows.

 

While many people talk about this one big hit they try to aim for, I prefer taking it slowly BUT steadily.

 

Happy Trading ;-)

[peterfx 10]

i've been actively trading for 6 months now, making more losses than wins down on my account. i feel drained after everything i have learned its not working out as i hoped. some say everyone goes through this when new to trading. i am also designing my own system which is proving more difficult than i thought.

 

what i am asking is when do you know time is up or the tide has turned?

 

thanks

-mslk

 

I can tell you from my own experience that I love trading so much that I can even enjoy it when I lose money- but this just me. Do give up, try trading a demo account or live account with min sizes. I don't think the developing your own strategy is the best thing for you now. Try to find a successful trader or a group of traders and stick with them. Learn how they win the market and adjust their methods. If you do that, your balance should improve and you find trading enjoyable and exited. Hope you succeed…

[bestforexpartners 10]

Hi,

 

I know that Forex trading is very rsiky and don't disappoint with losses. Its a part of trading and it happens with every trader once in awhile so don't lose hope. You just need to find out the flwas and then work out more on the forex strategies. you will surly get good results soon.

[Steve66 10]

i've been actively trading for 6 months now, making more losses than wins down on my account. i feel drained after everything i have learned its not working out as i hoped. some say everyone goes through this when new to trading. i am also designing my own system which is proving more difficult than i thought.

 

what i am asking is when do you know time is up or the tide has turned?

 

thanks

-mslk

 

Trading is the hardest game you will ever learn. Think about what you want out of trading, what your strengths and weaknesses are, and, build a system around it. Keep it as simple as possible and implement only what is important to your success. Test your system in Demo account with the risk/ reward parameters you normally trade with. You have to give your system time to work. When the system works, and you are comfortable placing real orders, start small. If the market does not let your system work that day, stay out of the market to preserve capital. Consistently work on your money management, trading psychology and trading plan. The markets are always changing and rewards traders that practice Patience and Discipline. Trade only the best setups and reward yourself for following your plan. Good Luck !

[Kaz 10]

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[rforexdad 10]

ummm....Trading is enjoyable if you treat this as a game.

If you are trying to make money from this and trying to make a living it can be highly stressfull...

 

However....my suggestion is to have goals...

Try to have a goal of 20 pips per day on an average in the first 3 months...

This is a simple target ...once you achieve this target with trading at 10K position size with real money....and a written down plan...If you do not have a written down plan and if you do not execute this plan exactly as per the plan....then you are trading by the seat of your pants...This is not trading....Trading means - have a written plan...and this plan does not have to be written in stone...you can modify the plan...but do not trade without a plan...

 

Of course first trade in Demo and then trade with 5K position size live

and then increase to 10K position size live.

 

Do not try to increase your target of 20 Pips per day for first 3 months - even if it looks easy and possible - once you go live....stick to the 20 pips per day

 

once you have completed 3 months of successfull live trading with a positive 20 pips per day...(if you do not have a 100 pips positive - weekly average which is 20 pips per day multiplied by 5 days...consecutively for 3 months....It is okay if you go up and down but if you do not make a nett 400 pips per month...for 3 months....do not even think of increasing the 10K position size)

 

Every week do an analysis....review every trade carefully and ask the simple question...

a) did you trade as per the plan ?

b) do you need to modify the plan...?

 

A trading plan is always evolving...

You could increase or decrease the criteria of your plan

and make it as simple or complex

 

Always remember....

every trade has to have

a) entry price...target price...stop price....position size...

 

New traders should never try to make 1000's of pips per month...

just have a simple goal

 

 

Your plan should handle all events...slow markets....fast markets...trending markets and ranging markets and whipsaw markets...

 

Bottom line...Have a written plan...and execute your plan...

 

Have fun !!!

[MightyMouse 12]

Does it get unenjoyable?

[phantom 16]

Does it get unenjoyable?

 

Only when the power goes out when you are in a bond trade immediately after the employment numbers were just released and you were still in the process of entering your risk stop...

[Tams 20]

i've been actively trading for 6 months now, making more losses than wins down on my account. i feel drained after everything i have learned its not working out as i hoped. some say everyone goes through this when new to trading. i am also designing my own system which is proving more difficult than i thought.

 

what i am asking is when do you know time is up or the tide has turned?

 

thanks

-mslk

 

in the beginning, trading is EXCITING.

 

every newbie can tell you how much fun that was -- you enter an order to buy, and in no time and you exit with profit. How exciting. You must have wondered, what took me so long to discover this?

 

Then trading becomes a GAMBLE.

 

You made some money, then lose some.

You try to make them back -- the more you lose, the bigger the next bet (in relation to your account size).

You thought you knew what you were doing. You only trade the sure bets. Like all the horse gamblers and sports gamblers, you studied the statistics, you studied the trends, you studied probabilities, you thought you were doing the scientific thing. You weren't. You are a gambler, and you didn't even recognize it.

You know the story about gamblers -- no gambler has ever won. At least you don't know one.

 

Then trading becomes a STRUGGLE.

 

Nothing makes sense anymore. The report comes out positive, and the market dives. The report comes out negative, and the market goes up.

You have the uncanny ability to buy at the top and sell at the bottom.

You tried to be diligent; to prevent uncontrollable losses, you start to use stops for every trade. You entered a close stop, it was taken out immediately. You moved the stop a bit further away. It was taken too. To add insult to injury, the market would turn around as soon as your stop was taken. OK, you are going to be smarter, you thought, you entered a stop that is 3 standard deviations away. There is no way the market is going to get it. It was taken out too. :-( You would make 10 small profitable trades, and lose all in one big loss. More than once you thought of throw in the towel.

 

 

 

..........

 

 

 

more later

[Obsidian 10]

in the beginning, trading is EXCITING.

Then trading becomes a GAMBLE.

Then trading becomes a STRUGGLE.

more later

 

nice summary Tams...hope beginners are reading posts such as these