[es] Goldman Sachs and Friends

[joshdance 10]

  NowTheMoment said:

My job is done here. I tried to converse with the children and they have no respect.

 

If your job was to throw out assumption and conjecture as fact, without any basis in fact and reality, then job well done. Again, instead of arguing theory, why don't you post a trade example or two, like a real entry/stop/target, based on the information you feel is relevant, and then, the proof is in the pudding, if it may be the case. All you've done so far is just ramble about Goldman, but you've not shown any real benefit to how the information you have proposed can be useful, in a real live situation.

[SIUYA 11]

yes i did watch the video

did you?

 

you clearly have no idea about how markets and market makers work or did not listen....he did not say where the market was.... he said if a producer could sell it forward at 80 (ie if its trading there) the project becomes viable but at 40 it was not. So guess what no one will give them financing unless they can lock in the price at $80. To do that you need to have people like GS who will help facilitate the liquidity and it needs to be trading there or at least the forward does.

and after your comment to MM - you confirmed it.

[SquawkAnalyzer 10]

after reading through the posts, ntm made a simple point concerning goldman who is a market maker and a huge major player, which i understood, too bad the rest of you didn't.

 

i saw the video when it first aired last year, lloyd was at bit aggressive or passionate i remember. the last 3 minutes at the end, i viewed it again and goldman would buy at 80, and like goldman they would begin to buy from 40 up, no question. that is business when you have the cash.

 

then again you guys are not in my position, which means you cannot understand the business. go stand outside with the protesters in the rain while we drain your accounts.

[SIUYA 11]

  SquawkAnalyzer said:

after reading through the posts, ntm made a simple point concerning goldman who is a market maker and a huge major player, which i understood, too bad the rest of you didn't.

 

i saw the video when it first aired last year, lloyd was at bit aggressive or passionate i remember. the last 3 minutes at the end, i viewed it again and goldman would buy at 80, and like goldman they would begin to buy from 40 up, no question. that is business when you have the cash.

 

then again you guys are not in my position, which means you cannot understand the business. go stand outside with the protesters in the rain while we drain your accounts.

 

you dont make any sense nor seem to understand what happens in the markets, nor what Lloyd was saying in the video.... so I doubt you will be draining any ones accounts

[SunTrader 10]

  SquawkAnalyzer said:

after reading through the posts.....

 

For a first post this is the impression you made :haha:

[MightyMouse 12]

  SquawkAnalyzer said:

after reading through the posts, ntm made a simple point concerning goldman who is a market maker and a huge major player, which i understood, too bad the rest of you didn't.

 

i saw the video when it first aired last year, lloyd was at bit aggressive or passionate i remember. the last 3 minutes at the end, i viewed it again and goldman would buy at 80, and like goldman they would begin to buy from 40 up, no question. that is business when you have the cash.

 

then again you guys are not in my position, which means you cannot understand the business. go stand outside with the protesters in the rain while we drain your accounts.

 

Your position? I'll have 1 large coffee black, with one splenda.

[joshdance 10]

  MightyMouse said:

Your position? I'll have 1 large coffee black, with one splenda.

 

ha! :rofl:

..........

[cfrn 10]

Who doesn't love a good conspiracy theory? I sure do.

 

I interviewed Aaron Russo shortly before his death so I'm fairly well versed on one of the biggest "Theories" out there. I liked Aaron.

 

I also like cartoons. This one is so powerful it makes my eyes water -

 

It's all about the Goldman Sachs and I'm sure most of you have already seen it. If you haven't please do, if it's already been posted please accept my apology as I'm too old to slog through the entire thread.

 

So what's my point?

 

When I hear things like "The Big Boys - The Smart Money - They ran my stops - ad naseum (ads by pepto) my blood boils. If you're talking equities, in particular small or micro caps - Amen Brother! That's why I stopped trading them. I still invest in them but I don't trade them.

 

So what's my point?

 

I trade Emini Futures. FIFO - First in / First out. GS has no clout in my market. That's why I moved here. No one has clout. Period.

 

The 1 contract trader has just as much power as the 1k contract trader or the 10k contract trader. Stop blaming "them" for your trades. If I buy 1165.00 on the ES Globex session as I'm typing, (I think I will) no Professional Trader has the power or desire to hurt me. I just got filled at 1165.25 MIT. If I decide to to take my trade off after 3 ticks or 3 points, how does the Professional mess with that? If I let it run to the Globex high and move my stop to plus 1 tick how does the Professional thwart me, manipulate me, or <insert french> screw me?

 

The problem is people who insist on blaming someone else for their own bone headed mistakes. I'm now up 2 ticks on the trade. There's 100 contracts on the Bid and 61 on the Ask. It's changing every second. I could get out right now with 2 ticks pocket a grand and ......oh wait...... the Professional must be in the Hamptons because now I have 5 ticks profit with 71 contracts on the Ask. If I sell 50 that's $4k in 5 minutes. Obviously the Professional has left the table right?

 

Here's the rub - where "THEY" get in or get out / and where "YOU" get in or out has zero bearing on the thousand's of players at the table. Go look at time and sales. Look at how many 1 lot orders go through. When a big lot goes through does it move the market? Rarely. If you really believe the conspiracy theory exists in the cleanest market in the world (besides Trader Joe's) how does 1K contracts move the market? On Globex and on thin volume. Somebody got lucky. Period.

 

One more paragraph and the goblet runneth dry. I just moved my stop to break even plus 1 tick. I now have FREE TRADE like Starbucks and TJ. Well not exactly the same but you get my point. Right?

 

If you believe the "run the stop" conspiracy you can take or be taken. I know all the arguments all too well. We discuss them on the radio program almost daily. Look at Warren Buffet. I didn't say bow down just look... He boldly bought Silver at $7 an ounce and it promptly tanked to $4 as I recall. Big guy, big order, market tanked. Huh? Think about it. If the SAGE OF OMAHA can't move the market, who can?

 

Did he still make a boatload of money on the trade? (rhetorical)

 

Crap, I had 2 points in that trade and some dang Professional logged in from the Cape and ran my stop at plus 1 tick. $#@!!! I thought I was safe. I thought they were all sleeping. I thought I had a shot..........

 

I guess you're right. Retailers have no shot. Black Friday to you all!

 

=)

[cfrn 10]

YIKES!

 

It's the middle of the night and THEY just ran the market to 1169.00

 

Remember, I was in on an MIT order at 1165.25. The market moved 2 points in my favor and I chose to move my Stop to break even plus 1 tick to create a FREE TRADE and COVER THE COMMISSION. THEY ran my stop as I previously posted :cinema:

and now THEY just ran 'em up to 1169.00 OMG. I could have had 3.75 points on that trade in the middle of the night before Thanksgiving.

 

If I had not moved my stop to break even I would

 

A) Have booked 3.75 points

B) Still be in the trade

 

My point in all this rambling is simply that it's between me and the market. I made a decision to get in, I made a decision to move my stop to create a FREE TRADE and now I own the results. It was all up to me. The entry, the exit, the stop, all up to me. No GS Lackey can ever make me enter the market. They can never make me exit the market. They can never move my stop or my target. Only I can do that.

 

Trading's not easy - but it can be simple!

[SunTrader 10]

Yeah, crazy 15.25 globex range on Thanksgiving eve.

 

Must be because Goldman never sleeps.

 

:o

[MightyMouse 12]

  cfrn said:

YIKES!

 

It's the middle of the night and THEY just ran the market to 1169.00

 

Remember, I was in on an MIT order at 1165.25. The market moved 2 points in my favor and I chose to move my Stop to break even plus 1 tick to create a FREE TRADE and COVER THE COMMISSION. THEY ran my stop as I previously posted :cinema:

and now THEY just ran 'em up to 1169.00 OMG. I could have had 3.75 points on that trade in the middle of the night before Thanksgiving.

 

If I had not moved my stop to break even I would

 

A) Have booked 3.75 points

B) Still be in the trade

 

My point in all this rambling is simply that it's between me and the market. I made a decision to get in, I made a decision to move my stop to create a FREE TRADE and now I own the results. It was all up to me. The entry, the exit, the stop, all up to me. No GS Lackey can ever make me enter the market. They can never make me exit the market. They can never move my stop or my target. Only I can do that.

 

Trading's not easy - but it can be simple!

 

There is nothing like a shameless plug on a Thanksgiving Day morning.

[BearBullTrading 10]

  SquawkAnalyzer said:

after reading through the posts, ntm made a simple point concerning goldman who is a market maker and a huge major player, which i understood, too bad the rest of you didn't.

 

i saw the video when it first aired last year, lloyd was at bit aggressive or passionate i remember. the last 3 minutes at the end, i viewed it again and goldman would buy at 80, and like goldman they would begin to buy from 40 up, no question. that is business when you have the cash.

 

then again you guys are not in my position, which means you cannot understand the business. go stand outside with the protesters in the rain while we drain your accounts.

 

 

Yes..I've watched the video

 

I agree with previous posts that you/NTM don't understand markets/what is being said.

 

One of the firms I worked at may be considered by some to be a "large primate". Not sure where they are on the "poundage scale" but gotta be at least an Orangutan ! As the largest single house by overall volume traded in FX maybe a Gorilla in some circles...who knows....or cares....

So, whilst I am not in "your position" I do believe I have some "understanding of this business".

 

Re: last 3 minutes/Oil/GS

Lloyd was just giving an example of how markets/GS can work , but anyway, trading Forwards isn't necessarily about predicting where a market rate will be at a certain date. GS could buy oil forward at $80 with a current price at $40 which doesn't rise and still make/not lose money using a multitude of other strategies,products,trades...None of which would likely be single-handedly trying to take on the market and push the spot price from $40 to $80...That would be a dumb strategy..and GS aint dumb.

 

On the original point of analysing the squawk..

 

I've listened to the squawk..It sometimes provides good memories of hectic dealing rooms ..but that's about it...I would never use the information to base a trading decision on.

 

If you hear GS sell 100/200/whatever no. of lots..Does that tell you their overall position is:

Short / Long / Flat / Dont know

 

Obviously its: Dont Know, so I dont see how it provides clarity or is useful information to base my decisions on .

 

If trading FX and after doing the trade one gets the the counterparty name as Deutsche Bank, should one immediately reverse with the rationale they're bigger so "THEY" must know something etc .I think there is a misconception that the "Gorillas" swing huge size all day, carry huge open positions, and push markets where and when "THEY" want....I don't think so.

 

Hence GS making far more $'s on the market making, advisory, fee based etc business lines rather than on their non client/own account activities.

 

Trade Well

[SunTrader 10]

From a Bloomberg commentary the other day referencing the MF Global mess of Jon Corzine's doing and how he should have known better seeing the same thing (being over-leveraged) happen to Lehman while he was at Goldman:

 

At Lehman, in the mid 2000s, executives took comfort in the notion that that the bank was in the “moving business” not the “storage business.”

 

In and out. Bam.

[hamburg113 10]

Hi,

 

Thanks very much for this comment. It help me to think about my ideals.

 

Tks again and pls keep posting.