Italy is Going to Be Next.

[TheNegotiator 13]

Call me a cynic, but there is something not quite right with the way the Eurozone are being squeezed. One after the other, they are being pushed to the limit. Spreads are widening regardless, but when it's a country's 'turn', the heat really gets turned up.

 

So Italy is in the spotlight now. Confidence votes and resignation denials from Berlusconi in the media makes it pretty obvious that Italy needs to put measures in place to make the market 'happy'. The mass financial consciousness, has decided that it can no longer accept anything less than strong action and commitment by Italy to paying it's money back. If "The Market" decides that Berlusconi is no longer suitable to run this commitment to repayment of debt, the market will squeeze the politicians so hard until it gets its way. I suspect this is going to happen but we'll have to see.

 

The trillions in debt Italy owes is rather more than Greece. So my thought is, how long can Italy politically procrastinate in the hopes of maintaining the illusion that they are in control and not TM? If it's not 'fixed' quickly, things are gonna get a whole lot uglier!

[TheNegotiator 13]

I'm sure there are others and if anyone wants to post a good one, please do so. But here is a live Eurozone debt crisis blog from the FT:-

 

Live Eurozone Debt Crisis Blog

[Tams 20]

Call me a cynic, but there is something not quite right with the way the Eurozone are being squeezed. One after the other, they are being pushed to the limit. Spreads are widening regardless, but when it's a country's 'turn', the heat really gets turned up.

 

So Italy is in the spotlight now. Confidence votes and resignation denials from Berlusconi in the media makes it pretty obvious that Italy needs to put measures in place to make the market 'happy'. The mass financial consciousness, has decided that it can no longer accept anything less than strong action and commitment by Italy to paying it's money back. If "The Market" decides that Berlusconi is no longer suitable to run this commitment to repayment of debt, the market will squeeze the politicians so hard until it gets its way. I suspect this is going to happen but we'll have to see.

 

The trillions in debt Italy owes is rather more than Greece. So my thought is, how long can Italy politically procrastinate in the hopes of maintaining the illusion that they are in control and not TM? If it's not 'fixed' quickly, things are gonna get a whole lot uglier!

 

scary, isn't it.

 

the scariest thought -- the domino is falling one by one, and USA is somewhere in the line !!!

[TheNegotiator 13]

And what's it all about? The mega rich not losing too much money. And who'll get stuffed the most? The common man(and woman ).

[Tams 20]

I don't know who is telling the truth...

 

statistics can be sliced different way to create different "truths".

 

 

 

The Top 10 Percent of Earners Paid 70 Percent of Federal Income Taxes

 

Top earners are the target for new tax increases, but the U.S. tax system is already highly progressive. The top 1 percent of income earners paid 38 percent of all federal income taxes in 2008, while the bottom 50 percent paid only 3 percent. Forty-nine percent of U.S. households paid no federal income tax at all.

 

The Top 10 Percent of Income Earners Paid 71 Percent of Federal Income Tax

[MadMarketScientist 11]

scary, isn't it.

the scariest thought -- the domino is falling one by one, and USA is somewhere in the line !!!

 

Yup ... the only thing 'good' about the US is that Europe is worse! Funny but the flight to safety from the Europe is straight to US treasuries ... but eventually hopefully it will be to gold and silver.

 

MMS

[TheNegotiator 13]

Spain anyone?

........

[zdo 20]

Italian numbers dwarf the scale of Greece issues and

fwiw, I personally think Italy is ‘culturally’ more predisposed to default than is Greece

 

ECB will find a way to ‘counterfiat' - (even though they aren’t supposed to)... so Italy may not be 'next' for sure....

Marc Faber: They Can Postpone the Endgame For Five or Ten Years

 

.. btw, the current EUR rally is not keeping up with the US index rally like usual ???

C’mon fly little Euro.

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/market-analysis/9749-fx-eurotrash.html

…

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/market-analysis/9749-fx-eurotrash-6.html

Fly! …so I can short you some more...

[ahimsa 10]

The latest italian news confirmed the will of berlusconi to give dismission but is most important before the ddl for stability law.

[zdo 20]

charles hugh smith-The World Is Drowning in Debt, and Europe Laces On Concrete Boots

 

What!? Putting an esteemed economist in charge won't help??? :shock:

 

What!? "ditto in China" They're 'fiat' too?? Policy adjustments won't help???

:doh:

:crap:

[zdo 20]

The driver in a car following an 18 wheeler on the interstate notices it is drifting and veering oddly but remains concerned and fixated on a partially attached tattered Italian mudflap that is flapping more and more. Meanwhile, the truck is supposed to have 216 lug nuts all torqued to spec – but only 18 total lug nuts are still on all of the wheels of the truck.

Misplaced concern?

 

Chinese TV Host And Economist Says Regime Nearly Bankrupt - BlackListedNews.com

[bobcollett 10]

The driver in a car following an 18 wheeler on the interstate notices it is drifting and veering oddly but remains concerned and fixated on a partially attached tattered Italian mudflap that is flapping more and more. Meanwhile, the truck is supposed to have 216 lug nuts all torqued to spec – but only 18 total lug nuts are still on all of the wheels of the truck.

Misplaced concern?

 

Chinese TV Host And Economist Says Regime Nearly Bankrupt - BlackListedNews.com

 

Dear zdo

 

Your Chinese link refers.

 

This is a truly frightning picture.

 

I remember , in the 1980's , when Japan was so strong .

And I tried to follow their management philosophy

"First in , first out"

Well , the whole thing was a fraud.!

Every Jap was in collusion with a bank/ govt/ other.

 

Now , just maybe , China is in the same boat?

I am going to be watching this picture.

Commodities will collapse !!!!!

Kind regards

bobc

[MadMarketScientist 11]

Check out this presentation by Deutsche Bank: The Tipping Point? Time to Call the ECB

 

DB Tipping Point Nov 2011 FINAL

 

This thing in Europe is not going to end well.

 

I'm holding some gold\silver anticipating some currency printing, holding a Short Euro ETF, and shorted some banks including DB & RBS

 

What is everyone else doing?

 

thx

MMS

[zdo 20]

This thing in Europe is not going to end well.

 

:helloooo: This 'thing' on the whole planet is not going to end well...

 

Submitted by Mike Krieger of KAM LP

 

We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.

– David Rockefeller

 

The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the CFR, The Trilateral Commission -- founded by Brzezinski for David Rockefeller -- and the Bilderberger Group, have prepared for and are now moving to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens.

– Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl

 

Chancellor Angela Merkel said that Germany is ready to cede some sovereignty to strengthen the euro area and restore confidence in the common currency…“Germany sees the need in this context to show the markets and the world public that the euro will remain together, that the euro must be defended, but also that we are prepared to give up a little bit of national sovereignty,” Merkel said. Germany wants a strong EU and a euro “of 17 member states that is just as strong and inspires confidence on international markets.”

– Bloomberg article November 16, 2011 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-16/merkel-says-germany-ready-to-ce...

 

Three Card Monti

Just like the con (confidence) game Three Card Monte through which people have been swindled out of their hard earned money in alleyways and street corners all over the world for half a millennium, the previously sovereign nations of Greece and Italy have now officially been placed into the receivership of “technocratic governments” and are now in the final phase of their looting. It truly is sad to watch these proud nations whose histories form the very core of Western civilization be taken down one by one but what is even more nauseating is watching the corporate media pundits, Wall Street analysts and financial experts cheer the news because it is ostensibly “good for markets.” First of all, it doesn’t take a genius to see that the people that screw up the most get promoted and advanced in the Western world’s current political/economic structure. The primary reason for this is that there is a very serious agenda of TPTB and that consists on using crisis to consolidate power in a one-world government, headed by a global central bank that issues a global fiat currency. People have been saying this on the fringe for decades and have been called conspiracy theorists the whole time but if you look at how things are progressing today you’d have to be asleep to not notice that the guys in charge are completely and totally determined to bring this sick, twisted dream into place. That is why the agenda moves forward despite the repeated, desperate cries of the citizenry for them to stop.

 

Let’s take a look at Mario Monti, the “soft” dictator that has been thrust upon the people of Italy by TPTB. He is a member of the Bilderberg Group, he is the European Chairman of the Trilateral Commission (a think tank founded by David Rockefeller in 1973, see quote at the top) and is international advisor to none other than Goldman Sachs. This guy was put into place by design. Anyone in Italy that thinks they achieved a victory in by ridding themselves of Berlusconi you better think again. You just got the biggest insider, crony financial terrorist around put in charge of your country without having a say in it …

Mike Krieger Exposes The Three Card Monti | ZeroHedge

[zdo 20]

Why the Sovereign Debt Crisis Began in Europe | Steve Saville | Safehaven.com

[zdo 20]

"Call me a cynic, but there is something not quite right with the way the Eurozone are being squeezed." OP, The Negotiator

 

…it’s SO-O-O not Italy

And TN, why would we call you a cynic? You're just being realistic. What amazes me right now is the intractibility of the many to step and acknowledge real bear troubles... It feels like I'm living in a world of zombies sometimes...

 

The US subprime crisis wasn’t so much about people defaulting on loans, but the mega-magnified effects of those defaults on a $14 trillion asset pyramid created by the banks. (Those assets were subsequently sold, and used as collateral for other borrowing and esoteric derivatives combinations, to create a global $140 trillion debt binge.) As I detail in It Takes Pillage, the biggest US banks manufactured more than 75% of those $14 trillion of assets. A significant portion was sold in Europe – to local banks, municipalities, and pension funds – as lovely AAA morsels against which more debt, or leverage, could be incurred. And even thought the assets died, the debts remained.

 

Greek banks bought US-minted AAA assets and leveraged them. Norway did too … towns in Norway bought $200 million of junk assets from Citigroup, borrowed money from local banks to pay for them, and pledged 10 years of power receipts from hydroelectric plants in return. The AAA assets are now worth zero, the power has been curtailed for residents, and the Norwegian banks want their money back–blood from a stone.) The same kind of thing happened in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Holland, France, and even Germany …

 

The practice of extracting ‘fiscal prudency’ from people and providing bank subsidies for bets gone wrong has infected all of Europe. It will continue to do so, because anything less will threaten the entire Euro experiment, plus otherwise, the US banks might be on the hook again for losses, and the Fed and Treasury won’t let that happen. They’ve already demonstrated that. It’d be just sooo catastrophic.

 

In the wings, the smugness of Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and Fed Chairman, Ben Bernanke is palpable – ‘hey, we acted heroically and “decisively” to provide a multi-trillion dollar smorgasbord of subsidies for our biggest banks and look how great we (er, they) are doing now? Seriously, Europe – get your act together already, don’t do the trickle-bailout game – just dump a boatload of money into the same banks – and a few of your own before they go under – do it for the sake of global economic stability. It’ll really work. Trust us.’

 

Most of the media goes along with the notion that US banks exposed to the ‘euro-contagion’ will hurt our (nonexistent) recovery. US Banks assure us, they don’t have much exposure – it’s all hedged. (Like it was with all AAA.)…

As the World Crumbles: the ECB spins, FED smirks, and US Banks*Pillage - Thoughts - Nomi Prins

Edited November 22, 2011 by zdo
gramr

[TheNegotiator 13]

Isn't the lack of acknowledgement more about fear than anything? Who from is the question. Is it from the individual member states? Thoughts might be - "If we just keep going under the radar maybe we'll get out of it" or "if we openly admit our problems we'll be mercilessly attacked by markets"- if they admit to this then the actual extent must be much greater kind of thinking. Or maybe it's from the authorities. IMF, Fed, ECB and major bailout players. Possible they think - "If we can just deal with this one at a time everything can be stabilised. If they're allowed to fail whenever, the domino effect could be catastrophic."-kind of like a controlled demolition of a smokestack or skyscraper.

 

The other possibility is that there is such a mess in many cases that until they know what they are admitting to, they just keep quiet. They know something is really bad, just they're not sure what or why exactly.

 

I don't really know though. Just musings.

[Trotta 10]

I am in the cynics camp. The quote that " control a nations money supply and I care not about the laws " springs to mind.

 

The populations of these "Democratic Nations" have been sold down the river or as my deceased friend used to say " sold a six for a nine ".....Don't get me wrong, I like the next man supports the pursuit for wealth and all that is good, hence my pursuit in the markets. But really how much does one man need, want or desire!! It seems like the powers that be are insatiable.

 

Think its contained to Greece and Italy? Take a look at the web of deception in a bbc graphic (euro web of debt-who owes money to who) i saw - the whole of Europe is smeared in this great government ponzi scheme.

 

These guys make Ronnie Biggs look like a good samaritan charity box collector!

[TheNegotiator 13]

 

It goes:-

 

Desire for wealth

Desire for recognition

Desire for power over fellow man

Desire not to burn in hell

[Trotta 10]

LoL Negotiator.

 

1.Desire for wealth - Cant see a problem with that.

 

2.Desire for recognition - Nothing wrong with this one either,but you start to tred a narrow line.

 

3.Desire for power over fellow man - If you get here then you will probably end up at 4

 

4.Desire not to burn in hell - Well what can i say!!!!!!

 

There is a fantastic graphic of what a million $, $10 million, $100 million $ a Trillion actually looks in relation to eg: arctic lorry, statue of liberty. Its insane! I can direct to if moderators will allow and anyones interested.

[TheNegotiator 13]

You can use the insert image icon to insert the url if you like. Better to upload it to the TL servers first by adding it as an attachment. Also, the is a picture of the day thread which it could go in:- Picture of the Day

[zdo 20]

Moody's: "The Probability Of Multiple Defaults By Euro Area Countries Is No Longer Negligible" | ZeroHedge

 

:curiousgeorge: ... and what do you think will happen to GBP if the EUR poofs / collapses?

[SIUYA 11]

Moody's: "The Probability Of Multiple Defaults By Euro Area Countries Is No Longer Negligible" | ZeroHedge

 

:curiousgeorge: ... and what do you think will happen to GBP if the EUR poofs / collapses?

 

it will get sold aff against d currency of the fudderland which vill rise agin

[zdo 20]

it will get sold aff against d currency of the fudderland which vill rise agin

 

Thanks.

:stupidquestionsmilee:

Why?

[zdo 20]

Debt that cannot (vs. “will not”) be practically paid is not a debt in its classical sense. It’s a default. Whether or not people want to recognize this reality is another issue. We recognize that a law that cannot be enforced is not really a law in any practical sense, so why are we dragging our feet with debt? Greece cannot pay its debt by any rational formula. It is already in default. Extending and pretending does not materially change this fact, it only delays recognition of the stark, enduring reality.

charles hugh smith-Unleashing the Future: Advancing Prosperity Through Debt Forgiveness (Part 1)

 

re “Debt that cannot (vs. “will not”) be practically paid is not a debt in its classical sense. It’s a default”

 

So while “Italy is Going to Be Next” may not be next

Italy is on that same list as Greece of states whose debts cannot be practically paid

Spain…. list goes on and on

and the list includes the U.S.

… we are already in default :7x!:

Are we in denial too?

The only way any of these debts get “paid” is if the many countries on the list find a way to repay the debts with counterfeit money… ie the "debt" is never really going to get paid.