No Progress (frustration)

[wrbtrader 10]

...You have to understand that most of the advice givers on this board and others are most likely hired by brokers to spread foolish advice that they know doesn't amount to s***. Either that or they are paid to pull the trigger on someone elses money and lose it for a living...

 

You serious...most here at Traderslaboratory that have given one piece of advice involving trading are being paid by brokers.

 

How much do you think most here at Traderslaboratory are being paid...hourly or salary ?

 

There any dental/medical benefits ?

 

:rofl:

Edited October 13, 2011 by wrbtrader

[zdo 20]

littlefish,

 

That’s a priceless post.

First, I'm with wrbtrader. Where can I find a broker who will pay me to spread this foolish advice that they know doesn't amount to s***?

 

...A few alternatives to your insights...

re “why would it matter? Just add 0's.”

If only !!! Each person’s 0’s have a quantity threshold. It’s definitely uncomfortable and it’s not ‘fashionable’ advice, but each trader needs to find his or her own threshold as quickly as possible and then begin moving it. The really best way to move that threshold is to operate just beyond your current scale threshold…(and throw in a bit of ‘psychotherapy’ as needed.) ... more of it's definitely uncomfortable.

 

So, ( and I hate to be a thread buzz kill but have ya'll noticed shooley is most likely just just plain gone now or he didn’t find an introject object here or whatever - but for other readers in similar situations) I would suggest moving the whole ‘3000’ to Oanda and sizing appropriately, rather than just sitting on it…

 

On to “I've found perfect setups that work with supernatural accuracy for about a week or two and then become as useless as flipping a coin just long enough to destroy what they produced. Some of which have very sound reasoning behind them too.” … more priceless posting. In courses and on forums, all the incessant “follow the plan” advice is about being a ritual maker and follower. Instead, I think we need to learn to be ritual breakers instead of a ritual makers… Reminds me of some nonsense I started at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/trading-psychology/10205-i-m-so-mutable-i-have.html

 

…while storing and maintaining those perfect setups at the ready like you would lay up a fine tool or instrument of course…

Edited October 13, 2011 by zdo

[xkr1962 10]

littlefish,

 

That’s a priceless post.

First, I'm with wrbtrader. Where can I find a broker who will pay me to spread this foolish advice that they know doesn't amount to s***?

 

...A few alternatives to your insights...

re “why would it matter? Just add 0's.”

If only !!! Each person’s 0’s have a quantity threshold. It’s definitely uncomfortable and it’s not ‘fashionable’ advice, but each trader needs to find his or her own threshold as quickly as possible and then begin moving it. The really best way to move that threshold is to operate just beyond your current scale threshold…(and throw in a bit of ‘psychotherapy’ as needed.) ... more of it's definitely uncomfortable.

 

So, ( and I hate to be a thread buzz kill but have ya'll noticed shooley is most likely just just plain gone now or he didn’t find an introject object here or whatever - but for other readers in similar situations) I would suggest moving the whole ‘3000’ to Oanda and sizing appropriately, rather than just sitting on it…

 

On to “I've found perfect setups that work with supernatural accuracy for about a week or two and then become as useless as flipping a coin just long enough to destroy what they produced. Some of which have very sound reasoning behind them too.” … more priceless posting. In courses and on forums, all the incessant “follow the plan” advice is about being a ritual maker and follower. Instead, I think we need to learn to be ritual breakers instead of a ritual makers… Reminds me of some nonsense I started at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/trading-psychology/10205-i-m-so-mutable-i-have.html

 

…while storing and maintaining those perfect setups at the ready like you would lay up a fine tool or instrument of course…

 

If you haven't found the perfect repeatable setup then you just haven't looked hard enough.

[zdo 20]

If you haven't found the perfect repeatable setup then you just haven't looked hard enough.

 

the 'perfect repeatable setups' repeat until they don't - and then they do again

yes, even the 'perfect repeatable setups'

that even applies to the best 'perfect repeatable setups' in the whole wide world

the point was to keep them sharp and ready instead of discarding them when they have declines in applicability...

 

Linear ... non linear,

logical... non logical

 

whichever... no sense arguing...all the best to you

[xkr1962 10]

the 'perfect repeatable setups' repeat until they don't - and then they do again

yes, even the 'perfect repeatable setups'

that even applies to the best 'perfect repeatable setups' in the whole wide world

the point was to keep them sharp and ready instead of discarding them when they have declines in applicability...

 

Linear ... non linear,

logical... non logical

 

whichever... no sense arguing...all the best to you

 

Not arguing at all, I am just saying you are wrong, we have decades of data to look back at, patterns that worked back then are still working now.

[zdo 20]

Not arguing at all, I am just saying you are wrong, we have decades of data to look back at, patterns that worked back then are still working now.

 

"just saying you are wrong" is the essence of arguing :helloooo:

 

OK you be right and I'll be wrong.

It's settled for all to see and apply going forward.

All those patterns on those decades of data never had any dry runs... in fact, they never failed even one time

and btw a bonus - that proves they never will have any dry runs or even one single failure to perform

[xkr1962 10]

"just saying you are wrong" is the essence of arguing :helloooo:

 

OK you be right and I'll be wrong.

It's settled for all to see and apply going forward.

All those patterns on those decades of data never had any dry runs... in fact, they never failed even one time

and btw a bonus - that proves they never will have any dry runs or even one single failure to perform

 

The thing is that I have done my 10,000 hours at this, Twice now in fact, and I have proved to myself and now plenty of other traders that without a shadow of doubt what I say is true.

 

It is fact, patterns worked then and they still do now.

Edited October 13, 2011 by xkr1962

[shooly76 10]

wow..thanks for the awesome replies! I have decided to rework strategy and sim trade for a few weeks..or until I feel comfortable going live again.

 

I have been thinking and looking at charts as much as possible fior set-ups. and I think one of my biggest problems is PATIENCE! I really need to just sit and watch for like 2-4 hours/night on avg. I wasnt doing this before..half the time I would spend 1/2 hr-1 hr and find something that I thought was a good set up but really didnt analyze properly and w patience.

 

here is a screen shot of last nights sim trade of 6E 10 min chart (I used 2 min and 60 min for guidance)...

[pa18 10]

wow..thanks for the awesome replies! I have decided to rework strategy and sim trade for a few weeks..or until I feel comfortable going live again.

 

I have been thinking and looking at charts as much as possible fior set-ups. and I think one of my biggest problems is PATIENCE! I really need to just sit and watch for like 2-4 hours/night on avg. I wasnt doing this before..half the time I would spend 1/2 hr-1 hr and find something that I thought was a good set up but really didnt analyze properly and w patience.

 

here is a screen shot of last nights sim trade of 6E 10 min chart (I used 2 min and 60 min for guidance)...

 

That's great shooly, I'm glad you still soldiering on!

 

I can see what you did on the 10 min, did you base decision on the higher timeframes? If you did, please post those charts too for educational purposes if you can.

 

imo, if the htf agree with the long setup, I think you didn't get the best price by about 20 points for the long ... but thats what 10k + of hours will do for you

[shooly76 10]

I think price did go up like 9-10+ ticks after 10 tick target was hit.

 

Ive been mostly looking for reversals in my new strategy. once price closes above/below my trendline and EMA, I look for entry..but on the 10 min chart price must also break 3-4 hr high/low...there are other rules as well..but nothing set in stone yet...still working on it

[shooly76 10]

here is another 10 min chart pic of a 6E sim trade 2 for 2..starting to like my new strategy and new found patience!

[shooly76 10]

forgot to add note about patience...I started looking at chart around 9pm... potential long trade/reversal around 9:30pm EST. so I was watching this chart (and checking Traders Lab lol) for over 3 hrs..almost fell asleep a couple of times at computer..haha.

[zdo 20]

The thing is that I have done my 10,000 hours at this, Twice now in fact, and I have proved to myself and now plenty of other traders that without a shadow of doubt what I say is true.

 

It is fact, patterns worked then and they still do now.

 

xkr1962, Everyone on the planet trades patterns. There is no away around that.

 

I'm guessing littlefish was discussing a class of emergent episodic duplications that do appear for a certain duration of time then recede into obscurity again. These emerge in all types of market conditions. They're bound to the larger context, of course, but it's not readily apparent.

 

Let me also guess - you're into 'trending type trading' ? And you were overlaying your context of trading with your proven public or proprietary patterns onto what is truly another world.

 

When the opportunity and challenge of trading these 'disappearing' patterns presents, a large subset of traders naturally and wisely settle on standing aside, "patience", etc. Another subset naturally does not settle. One way is not right and the other wrong. It would be disastrous for the whole population to try to capitalize on these transient patterns, but it is not wrong for traders with certain perceptual slants and proclivities to capitalize on them.

With, and only with, the correct understanding of context, trading them is as normal as trading more enduring patterns.

If you're not familiar with that, then maybe it's you who hasn't been looking hard enough. - razz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

shooley it's about time you participated again ...looks like you got a bunch of traders pulling for you... all the best.

[xkr1962 10]

xkr1962, Everyone on the planet trades patterns. There is no away around that.

 

I'm guessing littlefish was discussing a class of emergent episodic duplications that do appear for a certain duration of time then recede into obscurity again. These emerge in all types of market conditions. They're bound to the larger context, of course, but it's not readily apparent.

 

Let me also guess - you're into 'trending type trading' ? And you were overlaying your context of trading with your proven public or proprietary patterns onto what is truly another world.

 

When the opportunity and challenge of trading these 'disappearing' patterns presents, a large subset of traders naturally and wisely settle on standing aside, "patience", etc. Another subset naturally does not settle. One way is not right and the other wrong. It would be disastrous for the whole population to try to capitalize on these transient patterns, but it is not wrong for traders with certain perceptual slants and proclivities to capitalize on them.

With, and only with, the correct understanding of context, trading them is as normal as trading more enduring patterns.

If you're not familiar with that, then maybe it's you who hasn't been looking hard enough. - razz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

shooley it's about time you participated again ...looks like you got a bunch of traders pulling for you... all the best.

 

Tough to understand what the hell you were trying to say TBH with you but if by "perceptual slants and proclivities" you meant an element of discretionary trading yes of course we will always have that to deal with.

 

But to me the fact that the lower timeframes work in exactly the same way as all the other timeframes we can therefore use the lower timeframes to judge when to get in and out of the trades on the higher timeframes.

 

Trends withing trends or patterns within patterns.

 

And rest assured I have looked hard enough and do know what I am talking about.

[xkr1962 10]

This is a 2b reversal

 

 

Here is a recent daily 2b on AUD

 

 

then an internal h4 2b that we can use to re-enter the daily pattern and use the daily target

 

 

it is clearer on the h1 chart and you can also see we had an additional entry higher up, still targeting the level from the daily chart.

 

 

patterns within patterns, teach yourself what to look for and then learn to trade them

 

here is the same thing from a year ago

 

daily chart below

 

 

and h4 chart below

 

 

Keep it simple

[SpearPointTrader 10]

Tough to understand what the hell you were trying to say TBH with you but if by "perceptual slants and proclivities" you meant an element of discretionary trading yes of course we will always have that to deal with.

 

But to me the fact that the lower timeframes work in exactly the same way as all the other timeframes we can therefore use the lower timeframes to judge when to get in and out of the trades on the higher timeframes.

 

Trends withing trends or patterns within patterns.

 

And rest assured I have looked hard enough and do know what I am talking about.

 

I have come to the same conclusions. I actually watch the weekly, daily, 30 minute, 10 minute and 3 minute charts. By ONLY entering when they are all saying the same thing, I have been able to get my win loss ration to 80% wins, 20% losses. Often, I beat that by a good amount.

 

I have noticed that my average win is much smaller though. However, so are the losses and there are far fewer of them now.

[xkr1962 10]

I have come to the same conclusions. I actually watch the weekly, daily, 30 minute, 10 minute and 3 minute charts. By ONLY entering when they are all saying the same thing, I have been able to get my win loss ration to 80% wins, 20% losses. Often, I beat that by a good amount.

 

I have noticed that my average win is much smaller though. However, so are the losses and there are far fewer of them now.

 

Well done, 8 of 10 winners is what I aim for, it can be done just stop listening to all the nay sayers and people that overcomplicate things.

[dv4632 10]

Nice charts X...

 

Pure price action type trading is the only type of trading that makes sense to me. I never had any success with other methods.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

Well done, 8 of 10 winners is what I aim for, it can be done just stop listening to all the nay sayers and people that overcomplicate things.

 

Yeah, it's doable. The system I am reviewing now uses multiple time frames, and the relationship between the Bollinger Bands, and the 3 main moving averages to choose markets and time entries and exits.

 

By themselves, they don't really do much. However, when used together, thier relationship to each other makes all the difference in the world.

 

Once you understand the program, it's not even all that difficult.

[xkr1962 10]

Yeah, it's doable. The system I am reviewing now uses multiple time frames, and the relationship between the Bollinger Bands, and the 3 main moving averages to choose markets and time entries and exits.

 

By themselves, they don't really do much. However, when used together, thier relationship to each other makes all the difference in the world.

 

Once you understand the program, it's not even all that difficult.

 

Dump all the indis and concentrate on bars and candles and you will move your progress into overdrive, I promise you.

 

The indis are a product of price, not the other way around.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

Dump all the indis and concentrate on bars and candles and you will move your progress into overdrive, I promise you.

 

The indis are a product of price, not the other way around.

 

I used to do that. I am doing much better with overlayed indicators.

 

The method I am reviewing uses price, through trend lines, areas of support and resistance, and well known patterns of congestion to choose the markets using the weekly and daily time frames initially. Then once the markets that are good have been identified, it over layes the Bollingerbands and Moving averages to make the final entrance and exit timing using the daily and intra day charts.

 

The reason this is significant is that the markets are ever flowing, ever changing environments. These indicators move and adapt with those changes giving a more accurate point of support and resistance than using naked price bars alone.

 

By adapting to this system, I have been able to almost eliminate any draw down for example. It allows me to time the market almost to the exact point that it's "Go time".

[xkr1962 10]

I used to do that. I am doing much better with overlayed indicators.

 

The method I am reviewing uses price, through trend lines, areas of support and resistance, and well known patterns of congestion to choose the markets using the weekly and daily time frames initially. Then once the markets that are good have been identified, it over layes the Bollingerbands and Moving averages to make the final entrance and exit timing using the daily and intra day charts.

 

The reason this is significant is that the markets are ever flowing, ever changing environments. These indicators move and adapt with those changes giving a more accurate point of support and resistance than using naked price bars alone.

 

By adapting to this system, I have been able to almost eliminate any draw down for example. It allows me to time the market almost to the exact point that it's "Go time".

 

If it works for you and you are profitable keep doing it.

 

For novices who are still struggling I would definately stand by my advice to drop all indis, they are just a crutch and quite possibly an unnecessary distraction.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

If it works for you and you are profitable keep doing it.

 

For novices who are still struggling I would definately stand by my advice to drop all indis, they are just a crutch and quite possibly an unnecessary distraction.

 

One does need to learn this one phase at a time. If you don't understand basic price bar trading, you can't get the Bollinger band MA combo stuff. One method builds on the other.

[xkr1962 10]

One does need to learn this one phase at a time. If you don't understand basic price bar trading, you can't get the Bollinger band MA combo stuff. One method builds on the other.

 

Yep agreed the problem is that people try to learn it all ass backwards, human nature I guess, do the easy most obvious things first, I made all the same mistakes myself.

 

All I try to do now is make people avoid the same expensive and time wasting mistakes I made.

 

No need.

[SpearPointTrader 10]

Yep agreed the problem is that people try to learn it all ass backwards, human nature I guess, do the easy most obvious things first, I made all the same mistakes myself.

 

All I try to do now is make people avoid the same expensive and time wasting mistakes I made.

 

No need.

 

I just trade. I enjoy talking the game, but I have no aspirations of teaching anyone anything.