Market Manipulation

[wanr 10]

I keep hearing about alledged market manipulations.

 

How do they exactly do that? It is because of the size of the orders that can drive the market up or down? Is this with HFT? Who manipulates the market? Big banks and hedge funds or does it require some kind of cooperation between big players?

 

Where can I know more about that?

[TheNegotiator 13]

Take a look at Welcome to Nanex.net

 

and maybe http://www.nanex.net/FlashCrash/CCircleDay.html

 

It really depends on how and what you trade whether or not it affects you.

[brownsfan019 17]

http://blog.themistrading.com/

 

Read that blog if you want to learn more while getting a little along the way.

[wanr 10]

I got to know nanex through zerohedge but most of the time I don't understand their charts... They have really nice chart with a lot of colours but I have no clue what they represent...

 

Do you know from which software they take their screen prints?

[laurus12 10]

Wanr, if you take a combination of news and/or the activity in a given market as a basis for market manipulation you have a starting point. For example if the "Smart Money" perceive the market as ready to turn from bull to bear they would need a lot of buying to close their positions and open new. For this they need positive news. And strangely the news they need always comes exactly when they need it.... Further with news, when you for example see distribution or accumulation in a chart (for example as a range in top or bottom of your chart), it is very convenient for the "Smart Money" that the important news always comes exactly when they are done and are ready for the the big moves... Very strange right? Especially when we also know that some of the largest "Smart Money" guys also owns the big news networks. When you understand this, you know how the markets work. In a more general way from day to day they check the activity of both directions. When they are done accumulating or distributing they look for low activity in opposite direction of their interest. To much activity in opposite direction of their interest could mean too high a cost or risk in moving the market.

 

From a retail traders perspective one can see market manipulation as positive thing if one learn to read the signs. Meaning, it is because of the markups or markdowns of the "Smart Money" we can earn the big money. If all of this is good for economy, that's another discussion.

 

Laurus

[Do Or Die 10]

I got to know nanex through zerohedge but most of the time I don't understand their charts... They have really nice chart with a lot of colours but I have no clue what they represent...

 

Read here: How HFT Has Changed Tape Reading. Too much discussion and you get to see all perspectives... drop a comment too!

[xkr1962 10]

I keep hearing about alledged market manipulations.

 

How do they exactly do that? It is because of the size of the orders that can drive the market up or down? Is this with HFT? Who manipulates the market? Big banks and hedge funds or does it require some kind of cooperation between big players?

 

Where can I know more about that?

 

My simplistic view is it is the biggest players cooperate.

 

I couldn't care less if it is true or not. The charts and common sense tell me that all the millions of little players in the world will not trade in the same direction / drive the price, biggest money has to.

 

Learn to follow the biggest money, some call it trend analysis, it works on every timeframe.

 

I trade bare candlesticks they tell me everything I need to know, direction, momentum, entries and targets. Keep it simple.

Edited August 27, 2011 by xkr1962

[maxima 10]

It is all very simple. The truth is that aliens built underground layer under wall street NY and the city of london. They manipulate the brains of the traders using advanced microwave technologies. There are very few humans in the world who can detect this manipulation and turn it into profitable trade. We live all together in a secret location. Therefore I cannot invite you because the location is secret. I can give you a hint though. The building we live in is disguised as a private psychiatric hospital with old big trees and guards and nurses.

 

Geronimo!

[xkr1962 10]

It is all very simple. The truth is that aliens built underground layer under wall street NY and the city of london. They manipulate the brains of the traders using advanced microwave technologies. There are very few humans in the world who can detect this manipulation and turn it into profitable trade. We live all together in a secret location. Therefore I cannot invite you because the location is secret. I can give you a hint though. The building we live in is disguised as a private psychiatric hospital with old big trees and guards and nurses.

 

Geronimo!

 

haha haha hahaha hahahahahahhahahhahahahah

 

I only meant one haha but the minimum was 20 chars

[jackb 10]

It is all very simple. The truth is that aliens built underground layer under wall street NY and the city of london. They manipulate the brains of the traders using advanced microwave technologies. There are very few humans in the world who can detect this manipulation and turn it into profitable trade. We live all together in a secret location. Therefore I cannot invite you because the location is secret. I can give you a hint though. The building we live in is disguised as a private psychiatric hospital with old big trees and guards and nurses.

 

Geronimo!

 

Oh my god I know that place! I had my suspicions all along. FYI, the agents really do wear all black!

[Jaap 10]

You can find some videos at YouTube. Look at Market manipulation, or TradeGuider.

Jaap

[maxima 10]

What took you so long Mr Jaap? joined in 2007 and wrote your first post in 2011...

 

Your anarchist cell needs new flesh? :rofl: Go boyo get those capitalist pigs! Those manipulative bastards. :haha:

[izzahmu 10]

Its everywhere !!! even the government participates. Do you think the gov. would release a critical economic number reading without tweeking it? Do you believe the inflation rates published? Come on, as a trader you know these things happen you just take them as factors. How many times the news was so great prior to the open but the market openned lower, then moved up 2 days latter. Do you think the markt is that "thick" it couldn't abosrbe the good news for 2 days??? These things are clear signs of manipulation on big scales

[maxima 10]

totally agree. they are out there to get ya!

 

we poor people of the planet earth must unite and take what belongs to us - the rich people money. because this is revolution!

 

i hear you brother!

Edited August 29, 2011 by MadMarketScientist
language

[izzahmu 10]

whatever maxima.

For your information, and to be honest I dont even know if you trade !!! strong stocks often open lower move a little lower and then turn around and go higher to make new highs. This is normal market maker work, it is too considered market manipulation, its not called so, but is is a form of market manipulation.

 

go look at this link:

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

and explain to my why would the FED do that in secret and no one in govt. tallked about it

The 16 trillion dollars that not many people no of

Edited August 30, 2011 by izzahmu

[zdo 20]

The crusade against High Frequency Trading which Zero Hedge started well over two years ago, is now coming to an end. Reuters reports that U.S. securities regulators have "taken the unprecedented step of asking high-frequency trading firms to hand over the details of their trading strategies, and in some cases, their secret computer codes." As everyone knows, the only thing of value within the sub-penny scalping HFT universe are the odd nuances in computer code. Which is why its supreme and undisputed secrecy is sacrosanct. As soon as anyone, especially a regulator, has a whiff of understanding how any given algorithm works, it becomes the equivalent of collapsing the wave function: observing the HFT theft-scalping duality in action eliminates the Schrodinger equation associated with any simplistic algo and collapses its "wave function" to a worthless series of ones and zeros. Said otherwise, this is the end for

HFT.

Goodbye High Frequency Trading - Regulators Seek Secret HFT Codes | ZeroHedge

 

“…the end for HFT”

Is ‘Tyler’ right?

 

 

 

 

 

btw OP have you studied Tom Williams?

[maxima 10]

After this momentuous victory against the "robots", the only event that could possibly top it, would be extrication (by force or otherwise) of the Chairsatan and his globalistic central planning cohort from capital markets

who is chairsatan? :rofl:

........

[jackb 10]

HFT.

Goodbye High Frequency Trading - Regulators Seek Secret HFT Codes | ZeroHedge

 

“…the end for HFT”

Is ‘Tyler’ right?

 

 

No and the article even mentions that the current action is very esoteric in nature. For ZH to imply that the current action is the beginning of the end for HFTs is ridiculous. More importantly, why should HFTs be banned? There's no credible evidence that they caused the flash crash. If they have a legit arb opportunity, what is the basis upon which they can't make a trade? If lines start getting drawn as to certain trading styles being okay and others not, we've got a bigger problem than anything HFTs are supposedly perpetrating.

[MightyMouse 12]

No and the article even mentions that the current action is very esoteric in nature. For ZH to imply that the current action is the beginning of the end for HFTs is ridiculous. More importantly, why should HFTs be banned? There's no credible evidence that they caused the flash crash. If they have a legit arb opportunity, what is the basis upon which they can't make a trade? If lines start getting drawn as to certain trading styles being okay and others not, we've got a bigger problem than anything HFTs are supposedly perpetrating.

 

The HFT's are getting information before everyone else can get it. The exchanges are knowingly giving the information to HFT earlier than everyone else is getting it.The exchanges understand how important early information is because they make certain that the hft's get the data at the same time as each other. They do thinks like make sure that the data cable that reaches you is the same length as the cable that reaches me if we are both HFTs who pay for the advantage to make sure that neither you nor I have an advantage over the other.

 

The trading style they use is front running and front running is illegal.

normally, front running is done inside a brokerage firm. This time it is happening to the brokerage fim before it enters the brokerage firm.

[maxima 10]

The HFT's are getting information before everyone else can get it. The exchanges are knowingly giving the information to HFT earlier than everyone else is getting it.

yeah? who told you that? I have my own HFT connected to CME. I would love to get an evidence and sue millions out of CME. and never trade again.. please help me to change my life :crap: I will cut you in for 20%

[MightyMouse 12]

yeah? who told you that? I have my own HFT connected to CME. I would love to get an evidence and sue millions out of CME. and never trade again.. please help me to change my life :crap: I will cut you in for 20%

 

eveidence?

 

They pay the exchanges big money. its old news.

[maxima 10]

no evidence no cut Mouse. :helloooo:

[jackb 10]

The HFT's are getting information before everyone else can get it. The exchanges are knowingly giving the information to HFT earlier than everyone else is getting it.The exchanges understand how important early information is because they make certain that the hft's get the data at the same time as each other. They do thinks like make sure that the data cable that reaches you is the same length as the cable that reaches me if we are both HFTs who pay for the advantage to make sure that neither you nor I have an advantage over the other.

 

The trading style they use is front running and front running is illegal.

normally, front running is done inside a brokerage firm. This time it is happening to the brokerage fim before it enters the brokerage firm.

 

Front running is applicable to those that are placing orders for others and using that info to step in front and make proprietary, risk-free trades. There's no evidence that any of the HFTs are involved in such activity. In fact, most of the studies show they are strictly going after arbitrage opportunities.

 

Seeing a print on the tape before someone else does not constitute front running. Of course, the issue of who gets to see the print fastest is a long-standing issue. From the linking of people yelling stock quotes from window to window, to chalkboards to the ticker tape to now, there's always been someone who, by definition, is first in line. This issue was in play when you (all of us) began trading. Now that it's being fought on the picosecond scale is of no bigger consequence.

[MightyMouse 12]

Front running is applicable to those that are placing orders for others and using that info to step in front and make proprietary, risk-free trades. There's no evidence that any of the HFTs are involved in such activity. In fact, most of the studies show they are strictly going after arbitrage opportunities.

 

Seeing a print on the tape before someone else does not constitute front running. Of course, the issue of who gets to see the print fastest is a long-standing issue. From the linking of people yelling stock quotes from window to window, to chalkboards to the ticker tape to now, there's always been someone who, by definition, is first in line. This issue was in play when you (all of us) began trading. Now that it's being fought on the picosecond scale is of no bigger consequence.

 

Most of the time, those who are first in line are breaking laws. we simply are used to it. A lot of the HFT's may in fact not be breaking laws, if they are not in a position of knowing costumer orders. A firm such as GS or JPM, who deal with investors, should in no way be engaged in HFT activity and yet they are. I would not be content if my broker who had information of my position was actively trading against it.

 

My commentary is directed toward the exchanges who, for pay. give preferential information to certain parties. It makes for an unfair playing field.

[maxima 10]

if you know that someone is breaking law and havent called the police is breaking law himself... you are a criminal Mouse.