Vendors Vendors Vendors

[clmacdougall 11]

re: "If I could pick any criteria on which to focus the attention of trading newcomer on it would be those with real records of trading success."

I understand what you’re saying - but …I would not pick that criteria and would advise others against it !

The hitch - the 'priceless' / 'invaluable' info that the proven profitable trader might share is ultimately no more transferrable to student traders than drivel from the shysters...

 

Over the years, I personally have learned more and have gotten more usable 'best info' from trading vendors who were actually highly developed in their areas of representing and reading the markets (but who had other weaknesses that kept them from putting it all together like a wizard) than I have from the 'real' wizards. I even daresay I learned as much from observing their foibles and learning what not to do as I have learned from the 3 famous wizards I’ve had sustained relationships with…

believe it or not – that can be an incredible waste of time

Basically my point is - the match btwn what a vendor is offering and nature and trading style of the consumer thoroughly dwarfs the weighting of the quality of the vendor

 

re “…No one is talking about insta banning…” etc.

ok...but the madness of crowds waits and waits then erupts

 

Hi zdo,

I agree with almost all of your post , very insightful concerning the matching of the student with the teacher. Very good thoughts concerning the uselessness of the value of trading records.

 

As per one of your earlier posts you are stressing the value of a student knowing himself before he can correctly find the teacher he needs! Thank you

 

But standing in the way of of labeling vendors as being such makes no sense. Labeling a certain food as containing peanuts means nothing to most of us but to someone with an allergy to peanuts it has a life and death importance.

 

Nobody is trying to say that a vendor is good or bad just a person of possible/probable differing intentions than a non vendor.

 

It's a warning that might mean nothing to you or other well seasoned traders, but to the right person it might give them just enough information so as to not be taken to the cleaners, after all isn't that what a good neighbor in a community would do? And if so how is TL any different?

[MadMarketScientist 11]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm on route to Germany for a little vacation but since the plane is delayed by 4 hours :crap: I thought I would update everyone on the decision we've made regarding vendors.

 

We've read every post, looked at other forums to see what they do, talked to our sponsors, debated both sides, and have come to the conclusion the following path forward:

 

1. TL will be identifying members who have commercial intent on TL with a visible indicator

2. TL will update forum rules to ask these members to notify TL if they have commercial intent when they join. Members who have trading-related businesses but are not using TL to solicit business will not be classified as such.

3. Members are encouraged to notify TL management if they think someone is using TL with commercial intent but has not yet been identified as a vendor.

4. Commercial (and all) members are encouraged to continue to post and create good content and discussions.

5. Aggressive solicitation and spam by vendors will not be tolerated.

6. Vendor-bash posts and thread hi-jacks will not be tolerated.

7. Identified vendors will also be given their own thread in the Reviews section (if they wish) where members can discuss their products\services.

 

I want to stress again the indicator is not a value statement on the member, it is *only* for identification.

 

Thanks everyone for your comments on this topic. I'm sure we will tweak the rules as time goes but we think this is a good start. We will be implementing the indicator within the next week or so.

 

thanks,

MMS

[clmacdougall 11]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm on route to Germany for a little vacation but since the plane is delayed by 4 hours :crap: I thought I would update everyone on the decision we've made regarding vendors.

 

We've read every post, looked at other forums to see what they do, talked to our sponsors, debated both sides, and have come to the conclusion the following path forward:

 

1. TL will be identifying members who have commercial intent on TL with a visible indicator

2. TL will update forum rules to ask these members to notify TL if they have commercial intent when they join. Members who have trading-related businesses but are not using TL to solicit business will not be classified as such.

3. Members are encouraged to notify TL management if they think someone is using TL with commercial intent but has not yet been identified as a vendor.

4. Commercial (and all) members are encouraged to continue to post and create good content and discussions.

5. Aggressive solicitation and spam by vendors will not be tolerated.

6. Vendor-bash posts and thread hi-jacks will not be tolerated.

7. Identified vendors will also be given their own thread in the Reviews section (if they wish) where members can discuss their products\services.

 

I want to stress again the indicator is not a value statement on the member, it is *only* for identification.

 

Thanks everyone for your comments on this topic. I'm sure we will tweak the rules as time goes but we think this is a good start. We will be implementing the indicator within the next week or so.

 

thanks,

MMS

 

Wow!! I guess "we the people" really can change things in our community! Thanks so much MMS for listening to all of our thoughts and opinions on the matter!!!

[optiontimer 10]

I have no problem with vendors, period. I do have a problem with people starting threads on forums posting charts of trades they supposedly took, with little arrows for buy and sell, unidentified lines that have some special meaning, and in code-speak giving half the piece of the puzzle. Then when others ask simply what the method is all about, they get accused of wanting handouts, and not thinking for themselves, and called lazy for not wanting to "do the work." It's classic guru-speak, and is only spoken by those who either have a god complex and who desire the masses to follow them blindly, or by those who are selling the answer to the question.

 

What then usually happens is that those with half or more of a brain call their BS, they get "upset" and then the sheep who follow them, thinking they have "the answer," beg like little puppies for them to stay and be "generous" by continuing to give away a partial piece of a puzzle whose undisclosed portion is a moving average crossover, or a fib retracement, or some other useless information that is freely available elsewhere. Of course, you won't find that out until you fork over some dough. If the guru didn't want such "freeloaders" asking questions, then he or she shouldn't have posted in the first place with hazy information. My advice to wannabe gurus is: post 100% of the story, or don't post at all. If it's that secretive, why would you want to even give part of it away? Just keep it to yourself and enjoy living in your mansion where you live filthy rich.

 

Awesome, awesome post!

 

Whenever some "generous" Guru responds to questions with a "Hey, there's no free lunches," reprisal, I always think, "Right, except for you, Mr. Guru ... and I'll be the one paying!"

 

If you have something to share, share it. If you want $$money$$ for the secret decoder ring that makes it work, say so up front in the very first post. Otherwise, if people have questions, answer their flippin' questions for cryin' out loud!

 

-optiontimer

Edited September 1, 2011 by optiontimer

[Tams 20]

Another non-paying vendor is Logic.

 

I should clarify that Logic did not come to TL to solicit customers.

 

I started a thread on his method, and invited him to come to answer a few questions.

 

 

ps. I started the thread here because there was a fire fight in another forum and the discussion was destroyed by a multi-directional pissing contest. At the time, TL was new, the traffic was low, and James had a strict moderation policy on off-topic arguments; it was a better environment for discussion.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Tams

[zdo 20]

MacD, re “But standing in the way of of labeling vendors…”

Maybe ya’ll inferred I was standing in the way of labeling vendors, but I’m not. I even offered a suggestion for ways to do it. I basically don’t care whether they are ‘labeled’ or not. All my comments came when I noticed a large percentage of the posts indicating projections on and sure misunderstanding of vendors’ roles. It might have unintended consequences, but at first glance MMS has made wise choices

:haha: on his way to Germany :crap:

 

 

Optiontimer re: “If you have something to share, share it. If you want $$money$$ for the secret decoder ring that makes it work, say so up front in the very first post. Otherwise, if people have questions, answer their flippin' questions for cryin' out loud! "

Amen brother!

[clmacdougall 11]

MacD, re “But standing in the way of of labeling vendors…”

Maybe ya’ll inferred I was standing in the way of labeling vendors, but I’m not. I even offered a suggestion for ways to do it. I basically don’t care whether they are ‘labeled’ or not. All my comments came when I noticed a large percentage of the posts indicating projections on and sure misunderstanding of vendors’ roles. It might have unintended consequences, but at first glance MMS has made wise choices

:haha: on his way to Germany :crap:

 

 

Optiontimer re: “If you have something to share, share it. If you want $$money$$ for the secret decoder ring that makes it work, say so up front in the very first post. Otherwise, if people have questions, answer their flippin' questions for cryin' out loud! "

Amen brother!

 

Hi zdo,

 

 

With all due respect in post #50 of this thread you said, "I don't care whether he has to label himself a vendor or not." followed by, " I don't care whether we hold them to a higher or different standard or not" then in post #74 of this thread you said, " If they put all vendors content in bold red it would not save a single sucker one dam dime."

 

Now maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean in what you've said but it sure didn't seem supportive of our cause, when at the time we were putting forward our argument to MMS to label vendors. Maybe I just misunderstand your intentions.

[MightyMouse 12]

So as it stands, then, if you vend then you will be labeled as a vendor. So, sort of a vendor offender list.

[Deusomega 10]

So as it stands, then, if you vend then you will be labeled as a vendor. So, sort of a vendor offender list.

 

Ah that sounds like a punishment.

 

It's merely calling a duck a duck.

[clmacdougall 11]

There is nothing exclusive in this search to identify vendors. All members are welcome to help. Please let us know if you've found a TL member attempting to sell you or others anything on or off this site.

 

 

Our vendor list with names product and price:

 

[b]electroniclocal / 3 day seminar / $5000

steve46 / daily coaching / $200 per month

Urma Blume / tradestation inducator package addon / $1400 per year

Logic / manual / $750

nhallett / 5 hour course / $297

Rande Howell / multi media courses + 10 personal sessions / $ 2997

Dbphoenix / ebook / $30

TheRumpledOne / indicators / $50

swisstrader / multicharts package/ free - $9990

doubletop11 / indicator package / $1000 per year

Tim Racette / ebook / $49.95

alleyb / trading site mentorship / $800 per year

Eiger / mentorship courses / $69 - $1199

NihabaAshi & wrbtrader / training / $193 - $473

Predictor / manual and mentorship / unknown, through email add only

Fulcrum Trader /training & chatroom /$97 per month chat & $397 - $697 training

Dionysus Toast / indicator package / $249

Plugger / trading program / $1997

windsurfer / trading program / $50 per month

xkr1962 / training & mentorship / $8000 - $16,000

tradingadvantagetm / training / unknown, through email add only

Lil Miss Markets / sector specific trade alerts / unknown, through email only

tjnoon / trading system / unknown, through email only

 

 

I will post the others after discovering what they are trying to sell and for how much. Thanks

Edited September 4, 2011 by clmacdougall

[clmacdougall 11]

There is nothing exclusive in this search to identify vendors. All members are welcome to help. Please let us know if you've found a TL member attempting to sell you or others anything on or off this site.

 

 

Our vendor list with names product and price:

 

electroniclocal / 3 day seminar / $5000

steve46 / daily coaching / $200 per month

Urma Blume / tradestation inducator package addon / $1400 per year

Logic / manual / $750

nhallett / 5 hour course / $297

Rande Howell / multi media courses + 10 personal sessions / $ 2997

Dbphoenix / ebook / $30

TheRumpledOne / indicators / $50

swisstrader / multicharts package/ free - $9990

doubletop11 / indicator package / $1000 per year

Tim Racette / ebook / $49.95

alleyb / trading site mentorship / $800 per year

Eiger / mentorship courses / $69 - $1199

NihabaAshi & wrbtrader / training / $193 - $473

Predictor / manual and mentorship / unknown, through email add only

Fulcrum Trader /training & chatroom /$97 per month chat & $397 - $697 training

Dionysus Toast / indicator package / $249

Plugger / trading program / $1997

windsurfer / trading program / $50 per month

xkr1962 / training & mentorship / $8000 - $16,000

tradingadvantagetm / training / unknown, through email add only

Lil Miss Markets / sector specific trade alerts / unknown, through email only

tjnoon / trading system / unknown, through email only

thetradingdoctor / coaching/ $250.00 per 50 min

 

I will post the others after discovering what they are trying to sell and for how much. Thanks

[Tams 20]

don't know what he's selling,

but he is phishing for sure.

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/day-trading-scalping/8777-predicting-es-emini.html

 

 

I have been doing research on leading indicators for the past 10 years after working in data security and private gov data encryption...

Anyways this is what I can help with..

Prediction of the ES (emini) to within 0.5pt of ALL TURNS.. (No B.S.. tough to believe)

The predictive components give both scalps and long movements..

The information is used by "HFT" (High Frequency Traders)

I have simplified much of it for every day traders.

I am also willing to also share the research with a single business entity. Someone with a backend system that needs an indicator.

Of course after you have tested it.. I have no intention to wasting your time or mine.. you will know in a couple of minutes if what I predicted will happen does occur..

At a min.. your daily take with be 10 pts on the ES (At a min.. if you don't want to use the information to it's fullest)

The predictive components work prior to market open and give all the turning points accurate to the minute (you will have all the points prior to 8:00 EST)

This system due to it's nature is not suited for anyone who does one trade a day but best suited to someone who wants to capitalize on the entire day's movements.. ALL of the day's data points.. Each cycle that the market makes. (Yes it can be done.. But it is a lot of information unfortunately.. will explain more later on)

 

Please note I am not selling anything.. Just want to help or partner up.

 

If you are interested PM me.

Requirements: Experienced in order execution trading the ES. Willing to spend 1/2 hr understanding how the system works. Must have some method to communicate (Skype, Teamviewer etc.)

[Do Or Die 10]

First post on TL and the post starts with his achievement and 'coaching' ability. Even though this person may not be phishing anything, such showy attitude leaves a bad feeling

 

...

I had a 25 year career as a trader, and now coach trader on the psychological aspect of their trading...

[Tams 20]

Originally Posted by Gooner70 »

...

I had a 25 year career as a trader, and now coach trader on the psychological aspect of their trading...

 

First post on TL and the post starts with his achievement and 'coaching' ability. Even though this person may not be phishing anything, such showy attitude leaves a bad feeling

 

This is called "baiting tactic".

 

it is an invitation to PM -- contact me and I will show you.

[clmacdougall 11]

don't know what he's selling,

but he is phishing for sure.

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/day-trading-scalping/8777-predicting-es-emini.html

 

Hi Tams, in my opinion if he's not "sharing it" that means he's "selling it"!

[clmacdougall 11]

There is nothing exclusive in this search to identify vendors. All members are welcome to help. Please let us know if you've found a TL member attempting to sell you or others anything on or off this site.

 

 

Our vendor list with names product and price:

 

electroniclocal / 3 day seminar / $5000

steve46 / daily coaching / $200 per month

Urma Blume / tradestation inducator package addon / $1400 per year

Logic / manual / $750

nhallett / 5 hour course / $297

Rande Howell / multi media courses + 10 personal sessions / $ 2997

Dbphoenix / ebook / $30

TheRumpledOne / indicators / $50

swisstrader / multicharts package/ free - $9990

doubletop11 / indicator package / $1000 per year

Tim Racette / ebook / $49.95

alleyb / trading site mentorship / $800 per year

Eiger / mentorship courses / $69 - $1199

NihabaAshi & wrbtrader / training / $193 - $473

Predictor / manual and mentorship / unknown, through email add only

Fulcrum Trader /training & chatroom /$97 per month chat & $397 - $697 training

Dionysus Toast / indicator package / $249

Plugger / trading program / $1997

windsurfer / trading program / $50 per month

xkr1962 / training & mentorship / $8000 - $16,000

tradingadvantagetm / training / unknown, through email add only

Lil Miss Markets / sector specific trade alerts / unknown, through email only

tjnoon / trading system / unknown, through email only

thetradingdoctor / coaching/ $250.00 per 50 min

RicyBS / trading program / unknown, through email only

 

 

I will post the others after discovering what they are trying to sell and for how much. Thanks

[clmacdougall 11]

Any idea of what MMS has in mind for a vendor label? What it might physically look like?

[wrbtrader 10]

Any idea of what MMS has in mind for a vendor label? What it might physically look like?

 

He'll probably do something simple and similar like what other trader forums have done (e.g. BigMikeTrading.com and ForexFactory.com).

[zdo 20]

All vendors will be required to get 'chips' implanted in the neck :rofl:

 

That way you'll be alerted any time one comes close...

[clmacdougall 11]

Hi zdo

I'm beginning to feel that alert going off right now, or do you still provide "mentoring services" as per your visitor messages?:rofl:

 

How much do you charge to complete your one on one training? Or did you ever get around to mentoring TL member scg84?

 

No wonder you were giving us such a hard time about labeling vendors, you're probably one yourself!!:rofl:

[zdo 20]

:rofl:

 

I haven’t turned myself in to be chipped yet.

So, some would label that alert going off inside you as paranoia.

 

‘Vendor’ is a developmental stage! Been there, done that.

‘Vendee’ is a developmental stage! Been there, done that – even more!

 

I now ‘process’ with one (experienced) trader at a time, each for 3 – 18 months.

No didn’t work with scg84. Have been on the phone with a couple members of TL and actually worked with one for a while ...it ended up being more on life than trading issues. He is a young and intense person who got at some clarity at his own truths and is no longer trading full time. Ironically, he had/has a great edge … go figure.

 

Even though I do not charge for this work, there are untold costs and risks to the trader.

 

There are also untold risks and costs associated with reading any of my forum posts :helloooo:

 

…Haven’t experienced “giving us such a hard time” in here. Each vendor serves a relatively tiny niche. They cannot hurt you. If you get ripped off, you are ripping yourself off, not being exploited.

I remain fairly neutral on ‘identifying’ them explicitly… have noted possible unintended consequences, etc. for doing it though. With threads like this you all may run all them dam vendors off – then see what happens on your forum… purity is also a tiny niche… much tinier than MMS would want I’m sure…

 

:missy:

 

adding me to the listing? Here you go - :haha:

zdo / processing / priceless

 

All the best...

[Tams 20]

I can see that this thread did not make it into

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/announcements/10475-top-posts-threads.html

[clmacdougall 11]

I saw that too Tams. I guess it was because it was airing a bit of dirty laundry for MMS. Oh well, as long as it changes things.

[clmacdougall 11]

:rofl:

 

I haven’t turned myself in to be chipped yet.

So, some would label that alert going off inside you as paranoia.

 

‘Vendor’ is a developmental stage! Been there, done that.

‘Vendee’ is a developmental stage! Been there, done that – even more!

 

I now ‘process’ with one (experienced) trader at a time, each for 3 – 18 months.

No didn’t work with scg84. Have been on the phone with a couple members of TL and actually worked with one for a while ...it ended up being more on life than trading issues. He is a young and intense person who got at some clarity at his own truths and is no longer trading full time. Ironically, he had/has a great edge … go figure.

 

Even though I do not charge for this work, there are untold costs and risks to the trader.

 

There are also untold risks and costs associated with reading any of my forum posts :helloooo:

 

…Haven’t experienced “giving us such a hard time” in here. Each vendor serves a relatively tiny niche. They cannot hurt you. If you get ripped off, you are ripping yourself off, not being exploited.

I remain fairly neutral on ‘identifying’ them explicitly… have noted possible unintended consequences, etc. for doing it though. With threads like this you all may run all them dam vendors off – then see what happens on your forum… purity is also a tiny niche… much tinier than MMS would want I’m sure…

 

:missy:

 

adding me to the listing? Here you go - :haha:

zdo / processing / priceless

 

All the best...

 

I don't know about "priceless"! :haha:

 

What did you vend and why did you stop? When did vending end as part of your "developmental stage"? Or for that reason why did it start?

[MadMarketScientist 11]

I can see that this thread did not make it into

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/announcements/10475-top-posts-threads.html

 

It was the featured thread in the Aug 25 newsletter ... just didn't update the Top Posts thread until now ... internet access was a little intermittent the last few weeks here on vacation!

 

thx

MMS