The Short Term Destiny of Mankind?

[Ingot54 13]

This thread could be a great launch pad for nutty ideas, disguised as revealing serious risk to freedom ... or could it be vice-versa?

 

 

[Ingot54 13]

George Carlin has long been an outspoken loudmouth comic, but putting aside his liberal expletives, I find he makes his point well.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0yhHHPc7IU&NR=1]George Carlin Illuminati New World Order Exposed - YouTube[/ame]

[Ingot54 13]

I don't know anything about the above - just tossed in there to stir the pot.

 

But can this stuff be ignored?

 

Somewhere between the nutso's and the lobbyists, stands Ron Paul.

 

Where does he stand in the spectrum of truth in all of this?

 

Ron Paul "It's Time We Quit This! It's Trillions Of Dollars We're Spending On These Wars! Debate pt6 - YouTube

 

EDIT: You'll find it all here anyway: http://whatreallyhappened.com/

Edited August 13, 2011 by Ingot54

[pa18 10]

This thread could be a great launch pad for nutty ideas, disguised as revealing serious risk to freedom ... or could it be vice-versa?

 

 

 

 

"... A series of farms, where human farmers owns human livestock ... " then shows the pope

 

Nice one Ingot, food for thought

[pa18 10]

I don't know anything about the above - just tossed in there to stir the pot.

 

But can this stuff be ignored?

 

Somewhere between the nutso's and the lobbyists, stands Ron Paul.

 

Where does he stand in the spectrum of truth in all of this?

 

Ron Paul "It's Time We Quit This! It's Trillions Of Dollars We're Spending On These Wars! Debate pt6 - YouTube

 

EDIT: You'll find it all here anyway: WHAT REALLY HAPPENED | The History The US Government HOPES You Never Learn!

 

My two cents and maybe off topic ---

 

The demise of US in the short and medium term is a certainty. So does it make sense to pull back all resources, get their house in order, then start over. When I hear US funding this and that overseas, I've gotta ask wtf ....

 

I'm no US citizen but I think that's what Ron Paul wants to do if he gets to power, seems like a genuine chap ... for a politician

[Ingot54 13]

My two cents and maybe off topic ---

 

The demise of US in the short and medium term is a certainty. So does it make sense to pull back all resources, get their house in order, then start over. When I hear US funding this and that overseas, I've gotta ask wtf ....

 

I'm no US citizen but I think that's what Ron Paul wants to do if he gets to power, seems like a genuine chap ... for a politician

Yes, PA18 - there is always a voice of reason ... but it depends on your point of view too, and what you see as "reason."

 

To me it is fairly plain, and instead of rambling, I will copy/paste from the Australian version of The Daily Reckoning:

 

***************************

 

A Five-Step Plan Towards Making the World Right Again

By Greg Canavan

 

The gold standard removes the determination of cash-induced changes in purchasing power from the political arena. It's general acceptance requires the acknowledgement of the truth that one cannot make all people richer by printing money. The abhorrence of the gold standard is inspired by the superstition that omnipotent governments can create wealth out of little scraps of paper.

 

 

- Ludwig Von Mises

 

Gold is not necessary. I have no interest in gold. We will build a solid state, without an ounce of gold behind it. Anyone who sells above the set prices, let him be marched off to a concentration camp. That's the bastion of money.

 

 

- Adolf Hitler

 

In a moment I'll reveal a 5-step plan that will ensure investors and retirees are rewarded not punished for saving.

 

A plan that also provides a stable economic environment for businesses to plan for the future – without having to second guess central bank market manipulations.

 

But first, consider these facts about how serious America's debt situation now is:

The US Government ran a budget deficit of $1.24 trillion in 2008, $1.44 trillion in 2009, $1.58 trillion in 2010 and is on track for a deficit of around $1.3 trillion in 2011.

 

 

Over the same timeframe, the Federal Reserve slashed interest rates to zero and increased its asset holdings from $951bn at the end of 2007 to $2.85 trillion as of 27 July 2011. It simply printed money to purchase the assets.

 

 

Not surprisingly then, currency in circulation in the US economy – the fuel for inflation – has jumped from $773.9bn in 2007 to $1.03 trillion as of 27 July. That's a 33 per cent surge in 3.5 years.

 

 

Over the same time frame, the economy has grown just 5.2 per cent. That's in 'current' dollars. Adjusting for official inflation, which is more than likely bogus, the US economy has not grown since the third quarter of 2007.

So all this money printing by the Fed and debt issuance by the government has achieved absolutely nothing – apart from enriching the ruling class to the detriment of just about everyone else.

 

Money printing and fiscal largesse in other parts of the world have also only had fleeting impacts on economic growth. The message seems obvious. All the stimulus and increase in government debt is useless. It has a very short term and misleading effect on the economy. And it leaves a lasting legacy of an increase in a nation's total debt levels.

 

Despite this obvious fact there is an unbelievably ingrained tendency for investment professionals, mainstream economists, journalists and society as a whole to ask what the government is going to do to fix things.

 

If you're of that persuasion, here's a newsflash – government and central bank policy is the problem. Until society as a whole starts to recognise that, we'll continue heading down the slippery slope that we're on.

 

But instead of criticising, I'm going to propose a modest and simple solution – a return to the principles of sound money.

 

At it's most basic, having a 'sound' monetary system involves removing a government's ability to influence, manage or interfere with a nation's currency. In removing the government from the role of monetary management, a sound money policy puts it in the hands of the market.

 

That sound money advocates handing monetary policy over to the market might alarm you. After all, the 'free market' cops its share of blame for causing all sorts of economic problems. But not many people stop to think of this simple fact – there is no free market in money.

 

Central banks set the price of money and regulate that price every day. And as the evidence shows, they have done a pretty bad job. Taking the ability to create and set the price of money out of their hands would be a giant step forward in improving the economic system.

 

To do this, gold needs to be officially recognised as a tool in setting monetary policy. But it needs to be done correctly.

 

Returning to a gold standard should not involve tying gold to paper currencies at a fixed-price level. That's what the Bretton Woods agreement came up with after WWII and it was doomed to failure. Recognising there is no such thing as absolute stability is the key.

 

Ludwig von Mises raised this issue in Human Action:

 

The gold standard is certainly not a perfect or ideal standard. There is no such thing as perfection in human things. But nobody is in a position to tell us how something more satisfactory could be put in place of the gold standard. The purchasing power of gold is not stable. But the very notions of stability and unchangeability of purchasing power are absurd. In a living and changing world there cannot be any such thing as stability of purchasing power... It is an essential feature of money that it's purchasing power is changing.'

 

With that in mind, a modern gold standard could be implemented via a series of steps over a number of years. In summary, these steps would be:

 

Step 1 – Firstly the gold market needs to be a 'free' market. At the moment the US manages the US dollar against gold via the activities of the major investment banks in the futures market. The devaluation of the US dollar is 'controlled' although as more and more dollars come into existence, the ability to exert this control is diminishing. Operating this way is like conducting monetary policy back-to-front. It creates all sorts of false price signals and distortions. (See Step 4 for the right way to do it).

 

Step 2 – In a free gold market, central banks must stop buying their government's debt and print money to buy gold instead. Doing so over a period of years would help set a stable free-market price of gold and provide them with a sound asset on their balance sheet. We have no idea where gold would rise to in such a scenario, but let's say it's around US$5,000 an ounce.

 

Step 3 – National banknotes should promise to pay the bearer in gold. This way citizens have a recognised alternative to paper currency if they don't like the way their govt/central bank is acting. If inflationary policies were followed, people could take their notes to their bank and exchange it for gold. This would drain gold from the central bank and push its price up against the currency in question. It would therefore be a signal to central bankers to pull their head in.

 

Step 4 – Following this process would mean central banks conduct monetary policy by ensuring their currency trades within a well defined and communicated range. So in the case above, the Fed could manage the dollar within a range of US$5,000 to $5,250 per gold ounce. If gold traded above $5,250, it would signal that monetary policy is too loose. The market would impose discipline. That way we wouldn't have to put up with the arbitrary decisions of a few central bankers – decisions that have caused so much trouble.

 

Step 5 – Finally, gold must replace the US dollar as the world's reserve currency, or at the very least severely curtail it. This would actually happen in conjunction with the other steps. In reality, the US would not give up this 'exorbitant' privilege easily.

 

And there you have it. We're sure there are flaws to such a plan, but nothing worse than the current system we have.

 

The market is forcing some of these changes now. The investment banks are slowly but surely losing their grip on the futures market as their methods become widely known. Many central banks around the world, sick of absorbing surplus US dollars, are now buying gold instead of selling it.

 

Gold is in the process of re-setting to much higher prices. Or more accurately, national currencies are declining in value against the market's chosen vehicle for sound money – gold. This simply reflects the economic damage and wealth loss over decades of monetary mis-management.

 

But let's not kid ourselves that a concerted move to sound money policies is going to come from those who stand to lose the most. We'll need a crisis for that.

 

The way things are going, we might not have too long to wait.

 

Best regards,

 

Greg Canavan

Editor, Sound Money. Sound Investments

 

**********************************

 

These things are beginning to stand out a lot more, to a lot more people.

We are being shown the Libertarian way ... but does it have its flaws too?

 

best wishes

 

Ingot

[pa18 10]

Thanks Ingot. I agree with the five step plan in a theoretical sense but will people embrace and implement it? And flaws? Sure, but lesser of two evils comes to mind ...

 

Another ramble from me (grumble and too many beers lol)

 

You can see from the recent riots in the UK. Many of course will see the surface and that's all they can see, uneducated thugs destroying things on TV, but has anyone considered that the underlying reason for the turmoil ... 'young' people just angrily dissatisfied with gvt and banks getting away with murder (excess bonuses etc...) . If these people in power can get away with these things, can you see vandals getting away setting fire to police cars and robbing shops. Emulation to the extreme!

 

Revolution is coming my friend, look at the speed that they riots spread throughout the country --- hard or soft but it will eventually come ... and I hope the white hats win

[MightyMouse 12]

George Carlin has long been an outspoken loudmouth comic, but putting aside his liberal expletives, I find he makes his point well.

 

 

 

Ingot,

 

Is he talking about Australia?

 

MM

[Tradewinds 12]

Part of the main theme here is the idea of engineering a social system. Another major theme is the issue of what is fair and unfair. The "Human Farming" is a system of people exploiting other people. For one group of people to exploit another group of people in an unfair and unjust way implies that there is a "built-in", evil potential inside every human being. The group of people who somehow find themselves in the situation of being able to manipulate and exploit the main population can't resist the temptation to do so.

 

Should the people who do resist the temptation to exploit others for their own selfish gain, try to influence the world for good? Or should they just give up, and take a fatalistic attitude that this world's ultimate destiny is that evil will eventually take over and rule?

 

Evil will ultimately implode in self-destruction. Evil can not sustain itself. It makes me think of the story of the pirates on an island who killed each other.

[Ingot54 13]

Ingot,

 

Is he talking about Australia?

 

MM

Could be, MM ... could be.

 

Australia has always been about 15 years behind the USA, so this is probably prophetic.

 

Bit we here are not silly ... just slow ... :rofl:

 

"It's called 'The American Dream' because you have to be asleep to believe it."

 

Carlin's epithet's used to bug me, but now that I realise how direct you have to be to get people's attention, I accept it. Some of his stuff is a bit 'out there' ... but sure as eggs, he shoots straight.

 

We don't have any George Carlin's in Oz ... and now you've lost him too.

 

R.I.P. George.

[Tradewinds 12]

U.S. paying millions of dollars to help save Mosques overseas. It's not getting much attention. Maybe you could send the link to friends.

 

Channel2ActionNews's Channel - YouTube

[pa18 10]

If it was for a couple of million I may understand for cultural projects but 770 million for a sewer system?? ... outside US??

 

Personally, I just think it's any way of legal money laundering

[pa18 10]

Is Ron Paul the victim of a media blackout?

 

Is the news media treating Ron Paul

 

My conclusion is yes, can someone confirm or deny?

 

So next question is "Why"?

 

Maybe you can ask "How" and follow the breadcrumbs

[Ingot54 13]

Is Ron Paul the victim of a media blackout?

 

Is the news media treating Ron Paul

 

My conclusion is yes, can someone confirm or deny?

 

So next question is "Why"?

 

Maybe you can ask "How" and follow the breadcrumbs

The blatant stacking of the ticket to exclude Ron Paul ...

 

How the Republican Party Stole the Nomination from Ron Paul « Free Words

 

 

... is an identical situation to the one Goldman Sachs and HCBC have pulled.

 

Goldman took the short side of the housing market, against their "official" advice ("go long the housing market") to their "muppet" clients:

Goldman Sachs 'muppet' trader says unsophisticated clients targeted | Business | guardian.co.uk ... fined $USD550 million ... still getting fed bailout funds

 

HSBC laundered money from North Korea, Iran and mexican Drug lords, to the tune of $USD billions, despite being warned about it.

HSBC money-laundering fine: key players | Business | The Guardian

 

HSBC fined $USD1.92 billion ... but executives have all disappeared, retired, "moved on" ... "no longer in management"... "learned form mistakes" ... "won't do it again" ...

 

What was the Government response to this?

What did the US Attorney General do about it?

How many of their executives are doing gaol time over it.

Will any of the "fine" money really ever be paid, or were these finings "just for public consumption" and now it's back to "business" as usual?

How could anyone determine whether any money has been handed over as "fines" at all?

[Ingot54 13]

In Australia we have a local version of "The Daily Reckoning"

 

In today's newsletter, Eric Fry wrote one of the most accurate summaries of where America ... and vicariously the rest of the western world ... is heading full speed:

 

The 'Corzine-Dimon Syndrome'

 

The article is worth reading twice today, and once a week forever!

 

Jamie Dimon ... (JP Morgan Chase loses $2 billion speculating ... and calls it hedging)

 

:rofl:

 

The incompetent corporations have an advantage over the competent ones --- the incompetent are guaranteed a bailout, but the competent ones are forced to compete ... and survive against them on their own merits.

 

Anyone see something wrong with this?

[MightyMouse 12]

In Australia we have a local version of "The Daily Reckoning"

 

In today's newsletter, Eric Fry wrote one of the most accurate summaries of where America ... and vicariously the rest of the western world ... is heading full speed:

 

The 'Corzine-Dimon Syndrome'

 

The article is worth reading twice today, and once a week forever!

 

Jamie Dimon ... (JP Morgan Chase loses $2 billion speculating ... and calls it hedging)

 

:rofl:

 

The incompetent corporations have an advantage over the competent ones --- the incompetent are guaranteed a bailout, but the competent ones are forced to compete ... and survive against them on their own merits.

 

Anyone see something wrong with this?

 

The fed "lobbied" for banks to continue to be able to trade in the OTC markets when Dodd-Frank was being drafted. The fed wants banks to remain competitive and feels that banks need the profits attained from the otc markets to be competitive in the global market place. The Fed feels that its tools are enough to manage future bubbles:

" Understandably, as a society, we would like to find ways to mitigate the potential instabilities associated with asset-price booms and busts. Monetary policy is not a useful tool for achieving this objective, however. Even putting aside the great difficulty of identifying bubbles in asset prices, monetary policy cannot be directed finely enough to guide asset prices without risking severe collateral damage to the economy.

 

A far better approach, I believe, is to use micro-level policies to reduce the incidence of bubbles and to protect the financial system against their effects. I have already mentioned a variety of possible measures, including supervisory action to ensure capital adequacy in the banking system, stress-testing of portfolios, increased transparency in accounting and disclosure practices, improved financial literacy, greater care in the process of financial liberalization, and a willingness to play the role of lender of last resort when needed. Although eliminating volatility from the economy and the financial markets will never be possible, we should be able to moderate it without sacrificing the enormous strengths of our free-market system. "

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

"Destiny" is not a short term concept.

 

BlueHorseshoe

[SIUYA 11]

"Destiny" is not a short term concept.

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

depends if you think the world is 4 billion or 4000 years old. .....short term also becomes relative

 

Ingot - every heard of The Power Elite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

thought it might interest you.

[TheDude 10]

blah, blah, blah,.....

 

So Ingot, yes there is an evil group out to get us all and turn our hard earned cash into buttons.

 

The big question is: What are you going to do about it?

 

Just talk?

 

We've heard it all before.

 

If you truly believe in this theory, you've got to stand up and do something. Just letting 'them' get away with it makes you just as guilty for letting 'them'.

 

Please answer the following:

 

Who are 'they'? (other than some mid ranking execs at HSBC)

What are you going to do to stop them?

 

Given the courts will do nothing to them (as 'they' control the courts according to the thesis put forward), it would seem you must take matters into your own hands.

 

What are you going to do?

 

Buy a gun perhaps? Tell some more folk in the hope they may do something for you?

 

:question:

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

So Ingot, yes there is an evil group out to get us all and turn our hard earned cash into buttons.

 

What are you going to do?

 

Open a button factory?

 

BlueHorseshoe

[SIUYA 11]

i like the button factory idea.....

 

the scary thing is the 'they' is pretty much us.....you, me, anyone with self interest.

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

depends if you think the world is 4 billion or 4000 years old. .....short term also becomes relative

 

Destiny, Fate, and Doom are all end-of-the-line concepts; in the meantime we're just "riders on the wheel". For more on the subject of the Fates in classical thought, I recommend Boethius's 'The Consolations of Philosophy'. Although there are certainly more interesting ways to pass the time . . .

 

BlueHorseshoe

[TheDude 10]

We're doomed I tell you. Doooooomed!

 

The end of the world is nigh - better buy some gold I guess.

 

 

When 'their' evil plan reaches fruition and we're all starving and have no clean water, and trading with buttons, at least we can look at the pile of gold and realise, in actual fact, gold is pretty much worthless - other than jewellery and visors for space helmets. Both of which are low priority items when you're starving because 'they' have butt loved you with 'their' red, white and blue phalli.

[Ingot54 13]

depends if you think the world is 4 billion or 4000 years old. .....short term also becomes relative

 

Ingot - every heard of The Power Elite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

thought it might interest you.

It does interest me ... but not enough!

 

This thread is actually pointing out documented issues ... not conspiracy, because I simply do not know anything.

One can read ... one can guess ... one would be wrong.

 

All one can do is keep oneself as clean as possible ... and if that falls down ... apologise and make amends.

 

That's where I came from, and that's what I strive for.

 

Sometimes I mess up ...

 

EDIT: And sometimes people comment without reading the references in the post, or understanding the concept and the context.

 

These people will never be enlightened ... as their illumination can not pass further than the bathroom mirror.

[TheDude 10]

There's always another side to the coin of course!