ah what the heck...

[wsam29 10]

hello from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 

just a little about myself (be prepared to read).

 

started trading back in sept '98 right before the asian crisis if I recall properly. had no clue what I was doing for a good part of 2 years I think, took a course about technical analysis and thought that was the be all and end all.

 

traded everything from grains, meats, big SP, FX, SGX nikkei, from Canadian stocks to US stocks and options, you name it, there is a good chance i've traded it if it is North American listed.

 

fast forward, have had 3 $10,000 losses in my career on a single trade, cannot remember my first, second was thanks to 911 being short puts and waking up to futures down huge before cash open, my last hit was back in march 2003, right when the market turned higher and never looked back. short 1 pit SP and took a 20 point hit.

 

tried to trade euro after, unsuccessfull, options is the answer to profits, no such success either. the whole gamit of everything and anything, no indicators, 3 indicators, etc. then it hit me, it was me that was the problem. that still took a good 2 years to find the correct answers I was looking for that solved my psychological issues.

 

Jason Alan Jankovsky's material from CBOT helped me out alot. He also has a pretty good article online.

 

Jason Alan Jankovsky on the Psychology of Trading

 

His book "Trade Rules that Work." Really explained all my issues and I just finished reading his book back on 19 Jan 07.

 

presently trading:

 

grains, namely corn

euro

ym, what else, I take your money, you take mine, its a cruel game we play.

[Soultrader 12]

Hey wsam29,

 

Welcome to Traders Laboratory. I always love the trader war stories. I have plenty of battle scars myself. Good to hear you trade the YM also... would love to hear your input on it. Happy Trading.

 

Soultrader

[torero 10]

wsam, great post and thanks for sharing. Was there anything specific that you learned that turned your trading around? What were your trading or psychological weaknesses that you had to overcome?

[wsam29 10]

ah man, where do I begin other than, Mark Douglas' books explained somethings to me, then Jankovsky's material did the rest. They both got me thinking about my results, good or bad and what I did and what I was thinking while in a trade.

 

The game is 50/50 in zero-sum trading, so I personally find the edge is in the way you think and not any particular system/methology because markets adapt to all things over time, humans will think and do the same thing over and over again until they figure it out and change their ways or go get a job.

 

It was stuck on being right, wanting to make money, my analysis was right, the market was wrong, it was I need to do something, I'm just sitting around, all the things new traders do. Mind you taking a course on TA and thinking that was the only way to trade and be profitable did not help. Not understanding that its ok to have a lose here and there, just don't have one that cleans you out.

 

I noticed in my trading when I went in with no biased opinion on where I think the market was going based on my "analysis", I did really poorly. Compared to just sitting around not really wanting to trade, but something would catch my eye. call it the way the charts look, the speed the tape moved, things that I did not have a term for it so I called it "trade by feel" Because of the way I learned, everything that I was observing over time, I had no clue people actually traded off the things I was observing and doing it on a regular basis.

 

Coming to terms that there is no way I can trade like my "mentors" JC and HS . I mean don't get me wrong, I learned a lot just by watching what these regular guys go about their day to day lives when I was there for 5 days.

 

So what it really boils down to is I just have this secure confidence in doing the right thing each and everytime because I had a net losing day on 22 Jan 07. Two bad trades, and normally I would vent by hitting the wall, for some reason, all I did was stare at the monitor after the 2nd trade, acted out on my frustration, but I did not get the same result emotionally. Then I knew something had changed, I don't know what, but I thought about it at work and it clicked right there that night. The next day I was back at it again.

 

its all about accepting who and what type of trader you are, i would use the same analogy as a homosexual who comes out, because when they do that, they have come to terms with their sexuality and almost all the time, they live happier lives after "coming out" and accepting who and what they are. Not to mention it take courage to do such a thing because of all the potential ridcule they may face.

 

tell you the truth my "forward" analysis of what the markets may do sucks big time, I've tried PP, I've tried indicators, what I find works best for me is just having an open mind and compare prices and what the ticks are doing along with other market internals. But it still boils down to psychology, if you don't get that, no amount of mentoring, practice, indicators, systems will help you if you don't change the way a net losing trader thinks.

 

But as we all know it, we're learning each and everyday about ourselves and the markets we trade.

 

novel complete, can of worms all eaten by the fish.

[MrPaul 10]

Great story, Glad to have you on the forums!

[TinGull 10]

Very good stuff! Welcome aboard, look forward to trading with you

[Moneybox 10]

Greeting from a fellow T.O trader. Wsam have you ever trader Forex, if not why not?

 

Thanks,

 

Nikken

[wsam29 10]

Greeting from a fellow T.O trader. Wsam have you ever trader Forex, if not why not?

 

Thanks,

 

Nikken

 

I do, but not as heavy as YM or grains.

 

Why it just does not suit my personality. FX being a 24 hour market, i like to analyze my entrys in real time. I find that my forward analysis or what the markets may or may not do is crap, so I don't even bother. If I happen to see something that fits my entry criteria I'll place a trade. besides eSignal, I don';t know of any other data provider that provides volume on FX so that is another reason for not trading as much FX as some do.

 

I don't enjoy being up at 2am EST waiting for a signal that may or may not occur, so its just better to have a balanced life of trading from 0930h-1200h EST and monitor the grain market till 1415h EST

 

 

Right now, I've been asked to become a supervisor at my work so I'll be able to have a routine instead of being part of the rotation of afternoons, evenings, trade in the morning, go to bed, etc. It;s all over the place week to week.

 

The ideal goal is to get consistant enough and QUIT the J.O.B.

 

I did how ever gotten my manager interesting in trading, said he'd come by an afternoon shift and pick my brain.

[Moneybox 10]

I do, but not as heavy as YM or grains.

 

Why it just does not suit my personality. FX being a 24 hour market, i like to analyze my entrys in real time. I find that my forward analysis or what the markets may or may not do is crap, so I don't even bother. If I happen to see something that fits my entry criteria I'll place a trade. besides eSignal, I don';t know of any other data provider that provides volume on FX so that is another reason for not trading as much FX as some do..

 

Thanks for the feedback wsam, I am currently working on the learning curve for the FX market but since I found this board I find many people trading YM, so I am always curious as to why they do not trade FX. I am in the same boat, once I can get my trading skill up to speed I will be trading full time, so I am always looking for the best path. It’s pretty cool you have a little leeway on your job, I am mostly restricted to after-hours and lunch breaks for the market. Good luck.

 

Thanks, Shawn aka Nikken

[keymoo 10]

Coming to terms that there is no way I can trade like my "mentors" JC and HS . I mean don't get me wrong, I learned a lot just by watching what these regular guys go about their day to day lives when I was there for 5 days.

 

Great story thanks for sharing it. I'd love to hear more about your experiences with JC and HS. I have joined their website and subscribe to the newsletter videos - they certainly seem to know what they are doing and they have a great sense of humour also. What specifically did you learn from them - what do they do in their day-to-day that struck you the most?

[wsam29 10]

My experiance there was good and bad.

 

The bad part was they did not solve my issues at the time. I still went through a discovery period months after the "mentorship". I was more interested in the way HS traded because that was more of my temperment, just trade and get it over with. JC is more sit around and wait. There are pros and cons to their methods.

 

The good part was I saw what they did. Even before going down, sitting in front of the computer all day is not the way to success, at first maybe to learn the ebbs and flows and the little subtle things, but after you pick all that up, its time to live a life away from the computers, and they did that everyday, 2 hour lunches. Heck I've taken up my old approach of just trade between 1000-1200h EST. It just reinforced what I did before I had my best month.

 

My screw up after $10,000 in a month is another long story.

 

It really boils down to you as a person coming to terms with who and how you trade and not copy what others do, take bits of what you like and good at and throw out the garbage.

 

The way I trade is best for me.

 

All this technical stuff we all talk about is a self fullfilling prophacey if enough traders believe and act upon it. If enough selling breeds more selling, then it will happen and vice versa for buying. Why, who cares, just jump on board and let the smart people tell you why prices moved.

 

The things I noticed from those old school traders of Neill, Wyckoff and Livermore is this, they have more bits of widoms then hard set rules to trade. They employ common sense in their trading from what I observed. Nothing will ever beat a trader who employs good sound judgement in their trading decisions.

 

Believe it or not, before getting to know the squeeze indicator, I was, back in my indicator years, thinking of ways to filter the BB for potential signals, they just beat me to it with the Keltner Channels addition.

Trading is hard enough as it is, why complicate it even further with other things?