"The Force is Within You, Luke. It's Not The Trading System"

[MightyMouse 12]

I think sir, that you have misaken me for someone else...I have no history, except that of intolerance of fools, and put if bluntly if someone wants to approach me with deception (as has happened recently), in order to get what they want...I am not going to smile sweetly and hand it over...Finally I will generally respond to attacks "in kind"...I have made that clear to Mark.

Now lets be clear about another issue. I have posted quite a lot of information here, and based on the page views I believe that I have helped quite a few traders to improve themselves. Clearly this is not the case for the other person you speak of... at some point I am going to ask myself why I need to put up with personal attacks. I can assure you it is not for personal gain..Again I refer you to Mark (as I have explained it to him completely)...I continue to try to help struggling traders (as is the title of one of my threads) as long as others will permit....

Good luck to you

Steve

 

You have a difficult time recalling recent events. You were the one who tried to decipher what I was doing in my thread and you could not figure it out or it did not fit into your world. If you recall I was flattered. You now make the nonsensical claim that I wanted to trick you into seeing what you do for free. If you understand English, then I assure you that I have no desire to learn what you do. I care as little about what you do as I do about what anyone does.

 

I dared you to do a trade real time with before the fact information because you constantly claim superiority and like so many of your kind, you only discuss a trade when it is already winning. You have never posted information before the fact; only after the fact.

 

Instead of supporting your claims with fact you choose to engage in name calling, etc. because that is all you have to thwart attention from the issue that you wish to avoid.

 

Recorded in history is the fact that I was willing to do something that you were not willing to do. The forum will judge if you were afraid of if they actually buy your reasons for not wanting to take trades live.

[MadMarketScientist 11]

You're starting to sound like a whole new MadMarketScientist. I think I'll call you MMSv2, or v2 for short.

 

Haha sure thing ... maybe I'll change my nick and add the "v2" to it

 

But do try not to be so heavy handed with the censorship, ok? I agree that personal attacks, obscenities, and, of course, SPAM, ought to be struck from the TL record.

 

Believe me I don't want to spend my time censoring people's posts! But when the discussions turn away from the original thread topic and degenerate into name calling and recalling of past grudges ... like this thread has ... can't we just all get along

 

MMS

[MadMarketScientist 11]

The high ground is always the safest.

 

Guys - just take the high road ... and let's move onto something else :missy: (<--that's me getting drunk)

 

MMS

[SIUYA 11]

An overall excellent post - and this especially is an excellent analogy, Ingot54. I would only add that when the chef is waving and gesturing to all that he is the one who did the cooking, and he is at the same time offering you lessons in a cooking class, then one might forgive the dinner guest who insists on verifying that the chef did indeed prepare the meal before said guest forks over his tuition in the hope that he too might learn to cook as well as the chef, or at least better than said guest is currently able to cook, right?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

100% agree with Ingot and thales....and might I add....there is nothing more sickening (keeping with the food theme) of a cook who thinks they are the only cook in the world with skills, that their cooking is the greatest and every else is a fool and a fraud. You might be the best cook in the world but it does not make you a pleasant person to interact with.....and I thought over food and forums are places at which you wish to interact pleasantly.

[Ingot54 13]

100% agree with Ingot and Thales....and might I add....there is nothing more sickening (keeping with the food theme) of a cook who thinks they are the only cook in the world with skills, that their cooking is the greatest and every else is a fool and a fraud. You might be the best cook in the world but it does not make you a pleasant person to interact with.....and I thought over food and forums are places at which you wish to interact pleasantly.

There are always plenty of opportunities to respond to things people say.

 

I don't know if I tolerate fools or not, because I tolerate everyone.

I was not born clever, so I look up to everyone as a teacher.

 

And that's the way to enjoy a very long and fulfilling life.

 

I am 112 years old, and have outlived 7 wives!

I have a few children and several grandchildren, and am currently trying several times a week for more children of my own!

My wife is currently resting ... !

 

I have no doubt that "The Force" is indeed with me!

:rofl::rofl:

 

Why is it that Angels can fly?

Because they take themselves so very lightly!

[MightyMouse 12]

There are always plenty of opportunities to respond to things people say.

 

I don't know if I tolerate fools or not, because I tolerate everyone.

I was not born clever, so I look up to everyone as a teacher.

 

And that's the way to enjoy a very long and fulfilling life.

 

I am 112 years old, and have outlived 7 wives!

I have a few children and several grandchildren, and am currently trying several times a week for more children of my own!

My wife is currently resting ... !

 

I have no doubt that "The Force" is indeed with me!

:rofl::rofl:

 

Why is it that Angels can fly?

Because they take themselves so very lightly!

 

[joshdance 10]

My own experience is that most if not all the people who claim they have something authoritative to say (on the subject of trading anyway) upon closer examination, are simply pretenders....

 

Ah, the irony.......

[joshdance 10]

An overall excellent post - and this especially is an excellent analogy, Ingot54. I would only add that when the chef is waving and gesturing to all that he is the one who did the cooking, and he is at the same time offering you lessons in a cooking class, then one might forgive the dinner guest who insists on verifying that the chef did indeed prepare the meal before said guest forks over his tuition in the hope that he too might learn to cook as well as the chef, or at least better than said guest is currently able to cook, right?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Well said, and great to see you posting thales.

[steve46 12]

You have a difficult time recalling recent events. You were the one who tried to decipher what I was doing in my thread and you could not figure it out or it did not fit into your world. If you recall I was flattered. You now make the nonsensical claim that I wanted to trick you into seeing what you do for free. If you understand English, then I assure you that I have no desire to learn what you do. I care as little about what you do as I do about what anyone does.

 

I dared you to do a trade real time with before the fact information because you constantly claim superiority and like so many of your kind, you only discuss a trade when it is already winning. You have never posted information before the fact; only after the fact.

 

Instead of supporting your claims with fact you choose to engage in name calling, etc. because that is all you have to thwart attention from the issue that you wish to avoid.

 

Recorded in history is the fact that I was willing to do something that you were not willing to do. The forum will judge if you were afraid of if they actually buy your reasons for not wanting to take trades live.

 

Presumably the truth is our best defense so for the record

 

No name calling...simply correcting the record...

 

and now that I have invited several members here to view my class (anyone but you Mighty Mouth)

Edited June 27, 2011 by MadMarketScientist
language

[steve46 12]

"Originally Posted by thalestrader

An overall excellent post - and this especially is an excellent analogy, Ingot54. I would only add that when the chef is waving and gesturing to all that he is the one who did the cooking, and he is at the same time offering you lessons in a cooking class, then one might forgive the dinner guest who insists on verifying that the chef did indeed prepare the meal before said guest forks over his tuition in the hope that he too might learn to cook as well as the chef, or at least better than said guest is currently able to cook, right?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales"

 

Okay so lets take a closer look at this commentary

 

First of all, this isn't cooking channel ....this is the most competitive profession in the world and it has attracted many intelligent motivated people, with backgrounds in math, physics, programming and psychology, all being paid to find some way to beat the next guy to the prize..its not cooking someone dinner, and it has nothing to do with waving of hands..

Now for the record I have offered an invitation to three members including Negotiator and MMS and I have provided details of my class to MMS so that he can judge for himself whether I am real in my attempt to help struggling traders change their lives...

I have been here a while and posted several threads of substance including "Ideas for Struggling Traders" "An Institutional Look at the S&P Futures" and "Trading Adverse Events" all of which have been used extensively (if we look at the page views) by traders looking to move their understanding forward...at no point in those threads, have I posted a website, at no point in those threads have I tried to sell anything to them (no DVDs, No mentorships, no chatrooms, no subscriptions, no green light/buy/red light sell rooms) none of that...instead recently I have taken on several (there will be less than 20) students who expressed interest in working with me.Each of then had to demonstrate some basic skills, each of them had to show me that they were motivated to learn and willing to do homeowork...each of them knows that at the end of the curriculum (from 18-24 months) that they will be asked to leave and trade on their own, TO PROVE TO THEMSELVES that they have learned enough to run a sustainable trading business.

So really Thales, your namesake was one of the Golden Age of Greece's finest mathematicians and philosophers...do something appropriate to his name for once. If you are going to open you mouth take the time to look into a subject first. You made no attempt to contact me and ask what I am doing here...I would have gladly provided you the syllabus for my course of study so that you could evaluate it for yourself.........perhaps you might take a moment to ask what the real Thales would do?

Edited June 27, 2011 by MadMarketScientist
language

[MightyMouse 12]

Presumably the truth is our best defense so for the record

 

No name calling...simply correcting the record...

 

and now that I have invited several members here to view my class (anyone but you Mighty Mouth)

 

All you can do is lie and hope no one remembers.

Edited June 27, 2011 by MadMarketScientist
language

[thalestrader 14]

...First of all, this isn't cooking channel champ....this is the most competitive profession in the world and it has attracted many intelligent motivated people, with backgrounds in math, physics, programming and psychology, all being paid to find some way to beat the next guy to the prize...

 

I have no reason to want to engage you at all. I do so only to say that you are dead wrong - this is cooking.

 

Trading is not at all competitive. Oh, it has become quite fashionable to say that it is so, but fashions come and go, while the eternal nature of the game endures. And it is a solitary game, not a competitive sport.

 

It is generally agreed that 90% who try to trade are net losers by the time they quit. How is that competitive? If competition is at all involved, then that is no competition at all - that's shooting fish in a barrel!

 

How is trading competitive? It is me against me. Nothing you do on the other end of a wire is going to change tomorrow's outcome for me. At 4PM tomorrow, my equity will be what it will be because of me, and no one else. And anyone buying the line that this is "the most competitive profession in the world" does so for one of two reasons:

 

1) Because succeed or fail, it pumps his ego to think himself part of "the most competitive profession in the world"; or

 

2) it comforts him in that his failures are due to having been out-foxed by others, and it is through no fault of his own that his results are not what he had hoped, and to achieve better results, he merely must learn to out-fox the other foxes, thus he is able to rationalize avoiding working on himself.

 

You choose your entry, you choose your target, you choose your stop - You place the trade - nothing anyone else does will affect the outcome of your choice.

 

Trading is not a competitive sport. Trading is nothing other than you and your ability to perceive, manage, and exploit risk, while maintaining the emotional and intellectual discipline necessary to do so profitably.

 

Traders who lose are not beaten by other traders. As Livermore well knew, "the market does not beat them. They beat themselves."

 

Period.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[thalestrader 14]

I'd like the "traders who have visited today" to be re-enabled. I always liked to be able to see if any of my od friends were up and around.

 

Also, it seems as though the "currently viewing this thread" has been turned off as well. I thought that was also a good feature.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Since the "Wishlist" thread does not show u with recent posts, I am quoting this post here to make sure it gets noticed (I know MMSv2 is reading this thread, after all).

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[SIUYA 11]

 

Okay so lets take a closer look at this silly commentary

 

First of all, this isn't cooking channel champ....

 

no.....its a public internet forum whereby people discuss issues/ideas and freely exchange viewpoints. They use analogies and reword what they say in order to somehow better explain and express their ideas.

 

Steve you offer a lot to people here in this discussion and I for one after reading many of the posts agree with much of it. I dont care if you can trade, cant trade, do trade dont trade.

The point is that maybe in a public forum you are coming off a little defensive and over reacting and then reverting into constant belittling and name calling.....while others are also guilty of this there seems to be a constant trend and common thread.....it is you.

I say this as a suggestion that maybe it is something to think about for all of us.

 

(n hallet - sorry your thread has been hijacked)

[MadMarketScientist 11]

I say this as a suggestion that maybe it is something to think about for all of us.

 

Thanks SUIYA for this note - I think we've had enough of this for one weekend, don't you all think ... let me have the last word here.

 

Its a start of a new week so let's all go and make some money in the markets!! :missy:

 

MMS

[steve46 12]

I have no reason to want to engage you at all. I do so only to say that you are dead wrong - this is cooking.

 

Trading is not at all competitive. Oh, it has become quite fashionable to say that it is so, but fashions come and go, while the eternal nature of the game endures. And it is a solitary game, not a competitive sport.

 

It is generally agreed that 90% who try to trade are net losers by the time they quit. How is that competitive? If competition is at all involved, then that is no competition at all - that's shooting fish in a barrel!

 

How is trading competitive? It is me against me. Nothing you do on the other end of a wire is going to change tomorrow's outcome for me. At 4PM tomorrow, my equity will be what it will be because of me, and no one else. And anyone buying the line that this is "the most competitive profession in the world" does so for one of two reasons:

 

1) Because succeed or fail, it pumps his ego to think himself part of "the most competitive profession in the world"; or

 

2) it comforts him in that his failures are due to having been out-foxed by others, and it is through no fault of his own that his results are not what he had hoped, and to achieve better results, he merely must learn to out-fox the other foxes, thus he is able to rationalize avoiding working on himself.

 

You choose your entry, you choose your target, you choose your stop - You place the trade - nothing anyone else does will affect the outcome of your choice.

 

Trading is not a competitive sport. Trading is nothing other than you and your ability to perceive, manage, and exploit risk, while maintaining the emotional and intellectual discipline necessary to do so profitably.

 

Traders who lose are not beaten by other traders. As Livermore well knew, "the market does not beat them. They beat themselves."

 

Period.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Yes, an interesting idea....did you know that the original Thales thought that everything in the universe was made of water....in this respect you both share some of the same beliefs...

 

I think one can make a case that it is all about me, me, me the trader...until you get filled...and then unfortunately that theory is difficult to defend. For those who trade the ES regularly, this may ring a bell. How many of you have been filled, seen the market go in your direction and then retrace to take you out, before resuming a previous trend move, while you watch from the sidelines. Is that all about you the trader? I think not, but it does tell us that there are other participants out there who have the ability to shake us out of a position if they want to..

 

And for those who trade currencies or bonds...do you know that there are players in that market who don't care if they make money or no? In fact, some of them (and they are big players indeed, are there to move the market in a specifc direction and they couldn't care less how much money it takes because they are acting on behalf of a government agency...So once you get filled, if in fact you are in the market at the wrong time, you are going for a ride, unless you bail.....and I can assure you it has nothing to do with you (and only you).....again no sale....

 

The fact is when you enter a market, the quality of your fill often tells you that someone else (on the other side of your position), thinks that the market is going in the opposite direction...otherwise they would not buy from you or sell to you....in fact, THEY may be the kind of participant who is ready (and able) to really move a market in the direction they want it to go...at that point (once again) it isn't about YOU and what you want....in fact its about many others and their ability to mobilize capital.

 

Now I am not going to close my post with the word "period" because that gives the impression that I am "the last word" on a subject. I'm not...on the other hand I do think its wise to remember that no matter how romantic or tightly held our ideas are, there is always a chance that our understanding is incomplete (or simply wrong).

 

Best to all

Steve

[BlowFish 10]

 

Good to see you're still here. TL has become all but unrecognizable to me some days.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

And you!

 

TL needs threads of the claibre of your magnum opus if it is to be one of the top destinations for traders.

[thalestrader 14]

....I think one can make a case that it is all about me, me, me the trader...until you get filled...and then unfortunately that theory is difficult to defend. For those who trade the ES regularly, this may ring a bell. How many of you have been filled, seen the market go in your direction and then retrace to take you out, before resuming a previous trend move, while you watch from the sidelines. Is that all about you the trader? I think not, but it does tell us that there are other participants out there who have the ability to shake us out of a position if they want to...

 

" Is that all about you the trader? I think not..."

 

Ok, so you think it isn't. I think it is. All you have done is described a trader in a situation where an apparently well chosen entry was spoiled either by a badly chosen stop loss, or else by the failure to formulate and to follow an intelligent plan to re-enter in the direction of the initial entry. How is that anyone else's "fault" or "responsibility" than that of the individual trader. What does that have to do with "other participants" and their phantom "ability to shake us out."

 

I'll let you have the last word, if you choose, because while I am fond of debates, in your case I find no pleasure in discussing this with you.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[joshdance 10]

How many of you have been filled, seen the market go in your direction and then retrace to take you out, before resuming a previous trend move, while you watch from the sidelines. Is that all about you the trader? I think not, but it does tell us that there are other participants out there who have the ability to shake us out of a position if they want to..

 

You chose the entry in the first place, you chose the stop, you chose to exit the trade (apparently moving a stop too early). No one can "shake you out" except YOU, when you close the trade.

 

before resuming a previous trend move, while you watch from the sidelines.

 

And even more important, you choose to watch from the sidelines, rather than jumping back on the train. You choose to miss the move, no one keeps you out.

[TimRacette 11]

In addition, becoming consistently profitable comes down to your ability to detach yourself from the emotions of winning and losing money.

 

Once way to do this is to develop confidence in your system by reviewing your trade setups each night. This is a great way to build trust in your system which leads back to your confidence in pulling the trigger.