Struggling and Aggravated

[SIUYA 11]

I dont have any doubt that you believe your method is profitable

I also believe that your method can be profitable - make no mistake about that

 

I do however question your belief that you can be profitable.....

1- while undercaptialised,

2- while trying to implement a higher risk (yet also potentially higher reward) strategy of picking turning points which can be frustrating

3 - while you take quick profits and dont run a position after correctly picking a turning point

4 - while under pressure to earn income from this full time and

5- while at the same time questioning the positioning of your stops and the frustrations around this......

 

Please dont take this is discouragement but as food for thought

[Enigmatics 10]

I dont have any doubt that you believe your method is profitable

I also believe that your method can be profitable - make no mistake about that

 

I do however question your belief that you can be profitable.....

1- while undercaptialised,

2- while trying to implement a higher risk (yet also potentially higher reward) strategy of picking turning points which can be frustrating

3 - while you take quick profits and dont run a position after correctly picking a turning point

4 - while under pressure to earn income from this full time and

5- while at the same time questioning the positioning of your stops and the frustrations around this......

 

Please dont take this is discouragement but as food for thought

 

OK .... I just told you my next step is to supplement my income ....

 

I also just told you I've been re-examining my setups. I'm now focusing more on the breakouts of the accumulation instead of the high risk high reward areas of those drops.

 

You give a lot of "food for thought" or rather open-ended questions ..... Like I said, you're free to judge it however you may. I don't really think you're seeing what I'm seeing every single day so it's really impossible for you to judge what the setup is capable of. You've probably got one of your own and that's fine ....

[jpennybags 11]

Eni - Sorry to read of your troubles, but that's the nature of this business. You've received some good advice here, make the most of it. It seems like you have some good things going on, but you need to step back a bit and start building good fundamentals. Find a night job… keep the day job.

 

One other thing… if you insist on trading selloffs at the open, consider trading from a basket of stocks that do this frequently. Acme Packet (APKT) comes to mind; there are others. Stocks with a great deal of buying interest often get shaken out in the morning. The "bigs" will go on a campaign to shake out the weak hands. Once they've taken out every stop loss that they can reach, they buy back. No bad news, nothing wrong with the stock, just a simple business transaction.

 

Best of good fortunes.

[Enigmatics 10]

You know how I "officially" know it was a complete mistake to try and day trade for a living without the proper reserves to get me thru the hard times?

 

One of the guys I discussed some pages ago ..... a guy who I took under my wing back in February, talked him into joining the prop firm I was with and taught him my method ..... well today he cracked $17,000. He started with $7,850.

 

It's just astounding .... and I'm proud of him. But man .... it's like watching what I felt like I should've been doing. He's become calm. He took a few lumps as he was getting acclimated but he knows his bills are paid by his other job .... and he's patient with his entries/positions. I'm watching him rip off $400 - $500 a day on his profitable days. Man ....... :crap:

[Tams 20]

I have mentioned in various threads that, among many attributes (knowledge, method, etc.,),

a profitable trader have the "killer's instinct"...

ie. the ability to pull the trigger at the opportune time.

 

You can have a workable system,

you can have a proven backtest,

you can have the best computers and software,

you can have the fastest internet connection,

you can have the most supportive mother-in-law,

but if you cannot pull the trigger at opportune times,

make no mistakes, you are still a nobody.

[Enigmatics 10]

make no mistakes, you are still a nobody.

 

I'm not bragging about his results. That wasn't the point.

[Tams 20]

I'm not bragging about his results. That wasn't the point.

 

no, I am not indicting you... it is just a general saying on an open forum.

I was referring to those who cannot pull the trigger at opportune times.

[Tradewinds 12]

You know how I "officially" know it was a complete mistake to try and day trade for a living without the proper reserves to get me thru the hard times?

 

One of the guys I discussed some pages ago ..... a guy who I took under my wing back in February, talked him into joining the prop firm I was with and taught him my method ..... well today he cracked $17,000. He started with $7,850.

 

It's just astounding .... and I'm proud of him. But man .... it's like watching what I felt like I should've been doing. He's become calm. He took a few lumps as he was getting acclimated but he knows his bills are paid by his other job .... and he's patient with his entries/positions. I'm watching him rip off $400 - $500 a day on his profitable days. Man ....... :crap:

 

You should have had him sign an agreement for royalties to you. :rofl:

[steve46 12]

I have mentioned in various threads that, among many attributes (knowledge, method, etc.,),

a profitable trader have the "killer's instinct"...

ie. the ability to pull the trigger at the opportune time.

 

You can have a workable system,

you can have a proven backtest,

you can have the best computers and software,

you can have the fastest internet connection,

you can have the most supportive mother-in-law,

but if you cannot pull the trigger at opportune times,

make no mistakes, you are still a nobody.

 

I am going to close up shop and go have dinner in a few minutes but I wanted to comment on this because I am trying to get my students to understand the following vitally important concept;

 

After they learn the tools of the trade

After they learn to manage risk

After they learn to plan their trades

After they learn how to enter and take profit

 

They still have to learn how to act aggresively, with discipline and control

 

After alll these years it is clear to me that, the ability to act in a controlled, disciplined, yet aggressive manner.....is what

separates big winners from those who grind it out day after day, or win one day, only to give it back the next...

[Rande Howell 10]

You know how I "officially" know it was a complete mistake to try and day trade for a living without the proper reserves to get me thru the hard times?

 

One of the guys I discussed some pages ago ..... a guy who I took under my wing back in February, talked him into joining the prop firm I was with and taught him my method ..... well today he cracked $17,000. He started with $7,850.

 

It's just astounding .... and I'm proud of him. But man .... it's like watching what I felt like I should've been doing. He's become calm. He took a few lumps as he was getting acclimated but he knows his bills are paid by his other job .... and he's patient with his entries/positions. I'm watching him rip off $400 - $500 a day on his profitable days. Man ....... :crap:

 

Patience is not a deterministic trait. It is a potential that is brought forth with applied practice so that it becomes habit -- and appears as a personality trait. Does the guy has a genetic predisposition toward patience? Probably so. Did he develop that potential into a performance level emotional state. Probably. What you are saying, is that even if it were not ideal circumstances, it could be done. Assuming you isolate the fear that drives your trading and master it. I won't go away. Over time you may desensitize it and evolve into a better trader. Many who participate in this forum have done it this way and found success. It is a choice.

 

Rande Howell

[Tams 20]

"Impatience" is the wrong word the describe certain events in trading.

 

Let me give you an analogy.

 

Let's say we are going hunting for big bad bears.

They are big and dangerous, and they are known to have bad tempers.

But the prize is good... a big trophy, lots of meat for dinners, and a thick warm hid as a carpet.

 

There are rules for hunters --- you are not allow to shoot whatever you want. If you have a license to shoot bears, you cannot shoot deers. If you have purchased a license to shoot one bear, you cannot kill two. You can only shoot male but not female. You can only shoot adults but not pups. When you shoot, you cannot blindly shoot at anything on sight, you have to identify your target before you discharge your fire arm.

(for the purpose of this story, I have made up some of the rules.)

 

So me and my buddy set out into the forest to hunt this big bad bear. Each of us carried 2 big bad rifles, with enough ammunition to arm the talibans for 10 years.

 

My buddy is smart, he climbed up a tree, built himself a perch, sat there and wait for the big bad bear to come by.

 

That waiting period is called "Patience".

 

A few big bad bears, lions, tigers, and deers came by,

he identified one as a male adult bear, and fired; he bagged the bear.

His "Patience" was paid off with the prize.

 

 

I was smarter than my friend: instead of waiting, I went searching for the bear.

I heard a sound in the tree, and I fired at the tree.

I saw some movement in the bush, and I fired at the bush.

I was tripped by a rock and the fire arm went off.

I waded through the river and the water froze my butt off.

I climbed the hill for a better view, I almost fell off the cliff.

I shot a female and a pup by "mistake" along the way. I hope nobody found out or I would lose my license.

I kept walking, searching,

I turned a bend, and there it was... the big bad bear staring at me from 3 feet away.

I quickly fired, missed him by 2 inches...

I fired 3 more times, but did not hurt him at all.

I ran out of bullets.

The big bad bear was really angry...

he made a loud roar, pounded his chest, and charged at me.

I threw the gun on the ground and started running,

I unload my belongs along the way, ditching my food, my tent, my sleeping bag, to lighten my load.

But how could anybody out run a big bad bear? Nobody.

I became a statistics.

 

What caused my downfall? was it impatience?

 

I was doing everything wrong.

I was reckless.

I broke every rule in the books, including the unwritten rules.

 

How could I blame my death on "impatience" ? ? ? ?

 

I got kill because I did not know what the frick I was doing...

Edited June 18, 2011 by Tams

[gosu 10]

Moral of the story: stick to trading, bear huntin's too dangerous.

[Enigmatics 10]

Patience is not a deterministic trait. It is a potential that is brought forth with applied practice so that it becomes habit -- and appears as a personality trait. Does the guy has a genetic predisposition toward patience? Probably so. Did he develop that potential into a performance level emotional state. Probably. What you are saying, is that even if it were not ideal circumstances, it could be done. Assuming you isolate the fear that drives your trading and master it. I won't go away. Over time you may desensitize it and evolve into a better trader. Many who participate in this forum have done it this way and found success. It is a choice.

 

Rande Howell

 

Well the irony is that he was completely impatient in the early going. In fact He took a serious hit on a stock (lost about 30% of his port) back in late March because he wasn't sticking to the rules that I was preaching to him about controlled position sizes and entry confirmation. At first he told me that, unlike me, he could take more "risks" given the fact that he already had a job. After that, he learned that that was no reason to become undisciplined and it's been all uphill from there. Now that I think about it, after that huge loss he's been on a $19,000+ move north.

[SIUYA 11]

A young bull and an old bull were standing on top of a hill overlooking a herd of cows.

 

The young bull says, “Why don’t we run down there and f..k a couple of cows?”

 

The old bull replies, “Lets walk down and f..k them all!!”

[jpennybags 11]

Sometimes you eat the bear; sometimes the bear eats you.

[Rande Howell 10]

First patience is a practice that we become competent in. There is also an assumption here that, in their right mind, the trader knows how to trade -- they know the rules and are not a rookie. The problem is that they do not know how to maintain patience in the face of uncertainty. Disciple has not been embedded as a sustained practice. Withoiut patience and discipline, uncertainty triggers to fear and stupid mistakes happen. How many traders have, went doing their review, have asked themselves, "What was I thinking?". Managing state of mind is the eccense of trading. Without it, you waste your methodology.

 

Rande Howell

[pbylina 10]

A young bull and an old bull were standing on top of a hill overlooking a herd of cows.

 

The young bull says, “Why don’t we run down there and f..k a couple of cows?”

 

The old bull replies, “Lets walk down and f..k them all!!”

Lol, heard that on this movie I was watching yesterday about these 2 cops who worked in the "hood". I didnt get it though...

[Enigmatics 10]

Lol, heard that on this movie I was watching yesterday about these 2 cops who worked in the "hood". I didnt get it though...

 

It's a parable for planning and patience ....

[MightyMouse 12]

Sometimes you eat the bear; sometimes the bear eats you.

 

The outcome of the bear eating you is unacceptable.