Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

TheNegotiator

Information overload!!

Recommended Posts

This question is clearly aimed at discretionary intraday short to ultra short term traders. How many different markets/indicators/metrics do you feel a trader can effectively monitor in real time to support trade decisions?

 

To me at least this is an interesting question as I have seen so many traders' screens lit up like an arcade with different indicators and others where there is so little that it barely seems worthwhile having the chart at all.

 

They say that traders have to have the mental agility of a fighter pilot to keep up with everything, but are all the instruments we use really necessary and do complicated screens actually tend to distract us more than anything else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I don't use any indicators like oscillators etc. but will look much more at volume based charts such as delta in a few different ways. I used to look at many, many different markets to try to get a leading market but I often found myself putting too much emphasis on moves in instruments other than the one I was trading. So now I look at only my primary market and when I am trading others clearly those too. I monitor my quoteboard for any big moves and perhaps take a look if any markets require my attention. I also have been closely following $ as often this is the driving force at the moment.

 

Listing the things I monitor actually makes me realise that I do monitor an awful lot of things to try to help my trade decisions. I actually am quite comfortable with keeping up with these right now and I never feel as though I am losing myself during busy periods.

 

So I would say I monitor 7 or 8 different markets and metrics at any one time with varying emphasis on each. Anyone think that is too much or too little? Do a count of your own and compare it with other guys setups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only monitor one market, the SP emini. For me personally, I just can't monitor multiple chart tickers. That's why I decided to trade the ES, and not stocks. I monitor 6 lower indicators, and price support and resistance on one screen. I have two computers, each with two screens. So I have 4 screens. One screen is nothing but a price chart and the trading ladder. I think it's good to have one chart with nothing but price on it, and keep the overall picture for the time frame you are trading in context.

 

So 98% of what I monitor is on one screen in front of me. I has taken a long time, years, to refine what I want to monitor and what I feel is valuable to monitor. All my indicators are custom programed by myself.

 

My other two screens have the NYSE UpVolume-Down Volume and the NYSE Advancers - Decliners. I glance at those to see if newer highs and lows have been made, or it there was an unusually big move. Sometimes volume will have a big move right before the price moves. For example, there could be a lot of down volume and price doesn't move that much, but price will catch up to the volume. It happens very quickly, so there is not a lot of warning or time to react, but every little piece of information can help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  TheNegotiator said:
So I would say I monitor 7 or 8 different markets and metrics at any one time with varying emphasis on each. Anyone think that is too much or too little? Do a count of your own and compare it with other guys setups.

 

Well there is a strong correlation between EUR&CHF, CAD&OIL, and AUD&GOLD. So it would be a good for confirmation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP - this isn't a problem only with real-time traders ... I have this same problem just trying to trade stocks over the medium term. there is just too much info out there and too many options ... trying to research one stock gets me looking at 10 other stocks and then off to the ETF's, etc, etc.

 

yes i think its worthwhile to sometimes turn OFF internet (blasphemy!) and do some work without all the distractions. it used to just be email but now i find myself turning it all off more and more.

 

MMS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  pbylina said:
Well there is a strong correlation between EUR&CHF, CAD&OIL, and AUD&GOLD. So it would be a good for confirmation.

 

I think that's where people come unstuck. Sure it can add a bit of confidence but is it worth all the extra layers of complexity? I don't think so. To execute consistently it is much easier if it things are simple. Something you can do pretty much with out any thought or analysis.

 

Funnily enough I am always on the look out for things to help confirm a level and how ever 'good' they are I usually end up either abandoning them for simplicities sake or if they are that good trading them on their own for a bit of variety. Indicators that attempt to measure sentiment shifts or changes in order flow e.g. cumulative delta or trade intensity all have great appeal to help with triggering and timing. But you know what? if any of those 'trigger' you can bet your bottom dollar price will trigger itself (like breaking the previous bar).

 

JohnW has a couple of good posts on th subject of keeping inputs to a minimum.

 

I also think that methods that require lots of inputs are more inclined to fail with changing market conditions. You can 'curve fit' in discretionary trading as well as system trading.

 

OP even if coping with all this information it would probably be beneficial to try and strip away everything that is not essential. It would be much easier to maintain peak performance. You also might find you can trade more markets and diversification is a great way to reduce risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting isn't it though that we are always searching for additional indicators. I think that there are two reasons for this. Firstly, we have a lack of acceptance of ambiguity and so require more 'certainty' for our trading/what the market IS going to do. Searching and monitoring multiple things follows this. Secondly, what MMS said made me think of this. Our attention span for a market which is doing or perhaps more accurately 'achieving' very little, is about as much as it is for watching paint dry(unless you have some kind of odd hobby!). So there is this intellectual 'concentration gradient' where an immensely active mind needs to be 'filled' with something to figure out or focus on when not much is going on in the market. I am sure Rande would have something to say on this...

Edited by TheNegotiator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I monitor 4 markets, with a moving average, pivots, and volume on each. One time frame, but i will usually switch back and forth to a larger time frame to spot s/r levels.

For me monitoring one market made me feel anxious as when i started i could not trade a full day because of work. So by watching different markets I can usually find an opportunity to trade in at least one in the short time I had to watch the market. I have found that the simpler the better, especially when watching more than one market. If your just watching one I think with a bunch of indicators would probably be okay, but not multiples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  TheNegotiator said:
... we have a lack of acceptance of ambiguity and so require more 'certainty' for our trading/what the market IS going to do.

 

I agree. Even accepting it's simply about applying an edge many of us have this little voice in the deep recesses of our minds 'I wonder if we could improve that edge'. Intellect and ego are enemies of trading and looking at too much stuff lets them in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  steve46 said:
I monitor one market, using supply/demand analysis, time-based pivots and the concept of wholesale/retail value (similar to Volume Profile).

 

Might I ask does the environment you work in help prevent you getting 'sidetracked' (for want of a better word)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  BlowFish said:
Might I ask does the environment you work in help prevent you getting 'sidetracked' (for want of a better word)?

 

Well first, I negotiated a leave of absence from work....in exchange I agreed to train someone to take my place (period of 18 months)...I did this for two reasons...first my ambition is to do something similar to what Richard Dennis and William Eckhardt did in training the "Turtles"

Second, I wanted to avoid "burning bridges" with folks who were kind enough to take a chance on me a few years ago...So I did what I had to do in order to get a shot a what has been a dream of mine for a while now.

 

That said, I have the next 18 months in which to find, train, and "set free" (yes they are going to be asked to leave the class). After that, I have asked them to trade on their own (at least 6 months) and report the results. There are many differences between Dennis, Eckhardt and myself the least of which is that my system is distinct from "traditional" (Donchian) trend following.

 

Addressing your question...I have made my environment right for this project and yet I still get sidetracked...trying to educate, prepare a premarket analysis and then trade the open in front of a class is bit of a challenge...the solution to this problem is that I map out the trades in front of my class in the pre-market (5:45 to 6:15am PST). This approach is similar to that used by pro football coaches. who map out the first X number of plays in advance....if things go as planned they simply continue with that scheme....if not, they adapt to the changing environment..(and we do the same).

 

I hope this gets close to a usable answer.

 

Best Regards

Steve

Edited by steve46

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve,

Just curious , about how many trades do you average a day, watching just one market. I found that watching just one market was limiting the opportunity as sometimes the one market is not moving very much or not setting up, while one of the others is providing an opportunity. Has this been a problem for you? Or do you pretty much get some opportunities every day?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  SRspider said:
Steve,

Just curious , about how many trades do you average a day, watching just one market. I found that watching just one market was limiting the opportunity as sometimes the one market is not moving very much or not setting up, while one of the others is providing an opportunity. Has this been a problem for you? Or do you pretty much get some opportunities every day?

 

Hi

 

Depends on the local volatility..For example currently (Friday for example) we had one trade before calling it quits for the session. That trade was good for 7+ points.

Generally speaking I won't pull the trigger unless I see potential profit of at least 5 points.

Most of this month we have had one or two such trades per day.

I hope this helps

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like one but never more than 2 markets and I look at a few bigger time frames for reference and major patterns and pivots. I then use an entry chart with volume profile and delta study. If you can locate the critical areas you don't need much more than that nor do you need 12 monitors. I'm not sure how anyone can honestly say they can fully focus all day on that much information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  noego said:
I like one but never more than 2 markets and I look at a few bigger time frames for reference and major patterns and pivots. I then use an entry chart with volume profile and delta study. If you can locate the critical areas you don't need much more than that nor do you need 12 monitors. I'm not sure how anyone can honestly say they can fully focus all day on that much information.

 

You can't (focus continuously for hours)...so what we do is use our time based pivots and supply demand analysis to tell us when to focus and when we can "relax"...

 

We also take a brief break during the NYSE lunch hour and at specific times of the year, we exit the markets one hour prior to the end of RTH

 

Hope this helps

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  TheNegotiator said:
This question is clearly aimed at discretionary intraday short to ultra short term traders. How many different markets/indicators/metrics do you feel a trader can effectively monitor in real time to support trade decisions?

 

To me at least this is an interesting question as I have seen so many traders' screens lit up like an arcade with different indicators and others where there is so little that it barely seems worthwhile having the chart at all.

 

They say that traders have to have the mental agility of a fighter pilot to keep up with everything, but are all the instruments we use really necessary and do complicated screens actually tend to distract us more than anything else?

 

I remember the times I fell asleep in front of screen while watching the markets...If you are trading alone, it is very exhausting to follow too many instruments...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Thx for reminding us... I don't bang that drum often enough anymore Another part for consideration is who that money initially went to...
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • How long does it take to receive HFM's withdrawal via Skrill? less than 24H?
    • My wife Robin just wanted some groceries.   Simple enough.   She parked the car for fifteen minutes, and returned to find a huge scratch on the side.   Someone keyed her car.   To be clear, this isn’t just any car.   It’s a Cybertruck—Elon Musk's stainless-steel spaceship on wheels. She bought it back in 2021, before Musk became everyone's favorite villain or savior.   Someone saw it parked in a grocery lot and felt compelled to carve their hatred directly into the metal.   That's what happens when you stand out.   Nobody keys a beige minivan.   When you're polarizing, you're impossible to ignore. But the irony is: the more attention something has, the harder it is to find the truth about it.   What’s Elon Musk really thinking? What are his plans? What will happen with DOGE? Is he deserving of all of this adoration and hate? Hard to say.   Ideas work the same way.   Take tariffs, for example.   Tariffs have become the Cybertrucks of economic policy. People either love them or hate them. Even if they don’t understand what they are and how they work. (Most don’t.)   That’s why, in my latest podcast (link below), I wanted to explore the “in-between” truth about tariffs.   And like Cybertrucks, I guess my thoughts on tariffs are polarizing.   Greg Gutfield mentioned me on Fox News. Harvard professors hate me now. (I wonder if they also key Cybertrucks?)   But before I show you what I think about tariffs… I have to mention something.   We’re Headed to Austin, Texas This weekend, my team and I are headed to Austin. By now, you should probably know why.   Yes, SXSW is happening. But my team and I are doing something I think is even better.   We’re putting on a FREE event on “Tech’s Turning Point.”   AI, quantum, biotech, crypto, and more—it’s all on the table.   Just now, we posted a special webpage with the agenda.   Click here to check it out and add it to your calendar.   The Truth About Tariffs People love to panic about tariffs causing inflation.   They wave around the ghost of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff from the Great Depression like it’s Exhibit A proving tariffs equal economic collapse.   But let me pop this myth:   Tariffs don’t cause inflation. And no, I'm not crazy (despite what angry professors from Harvard or Stanford might tweet at me).   Here's the deal.   Inflation isn’t when just a couple of things become pricier. It’s when your entire shopping basket—eggs, shirts, Netflix subscriptions, bananas, everything—starts costing more because your money’s worth less.   Inflation means your dollars aren’t stretching as far as they used to.   Take the 1800s.   For nearly a century, 97% of America’s revenue came from tariffs. Income tax? Didn’t exist. And guess what inflation was? Basically zero. Maybe 1% a year.   The economy was booming, and tariffs funded nearly everything. So, why do people suddenly think tariffs cause inflation today?   Tariffs are taxes on imports, yes, but prices are set by supply and demand—not tariffs.   Let me give you a simple example.   Imagine fancy potato chips from Canada cost $10, and a 20% tariff pushes that to $12. Everyone panics—prices rose! Inflation!   Nope.   If I only have $100 to spend and the price of my favorite chips goes up, I either stop buying chips or I buy, say, fewer newspapers.   If everyone stops buying newspapers because they’re overspending on chips, newspapers lower their prices or go out of business.   Overall spending stays the same, and inflation doesn’t budge.   Three quick scenarios:   We buy pricier chips, but fewer other things: Inflation unchanged. Manufacturers shift to the U.S. to avoid tariffs: Inflation unchanged (and more jobs here). We stop buying fancy chips: Prices drop again. Inflation? Still unchanged. The only thing that actually causes inflation is printing money.   Between 2020 and 2022 alone, 40% of all money ever created in history appeared overnight.   That’s why inflation shot up afterward—not because of tariffs.   Back to tariffs today.   Still No Inflation Unlike the infamous Smoot-Hawley blanket tariff (imagine Oprah handing out tariffs: "You get a tariff, and you get a tariff!"), today's tariffs are strategic.   Trump slapped tariffs on chips from Taiwan because we shouldn’t rely on a single foreign supplier for vital tech components—especially if that supplier might get invaded.   Now Taiwan Semiconductor is investing $100 billion in American manufacturing.   Strategic win, no inflation.   Then there’s Canada and Mexico—our friendly neighbors with weirdly huge tariffs on things like milk and butter (299% tariff on butter—really, Canada?).   Trump’s not blanketing everything with tariffs; he’s pressuring trade partners to lower theirs.   If they do, everybody wins. If they don’t, well, then we have a strategic trade chess game—but still no inflation.   In short, tariffs are about strategy, security, and fairness—not inflation.   Yes, blanket tariffs from the Great Depression era were dumb. Obviously. Today's targeted tariffs? Smart.   Listen to the whole podcast to hear why I think this.   And by the way, if you see a Cybertruck, don’t key it. Robin doesn’t care about your politics; she just likes her weird truck.   Maybe read a good book, relax, and leave cars alone.   (And yes, nobody keys Volkswagens, even though they were basically created by Hitler. Strange world we live in.) Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/the-truth-about-tariffs-busting-the-inflation-myth    Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/       
    • No, not if you are comparing apples to apples. What we call “poor” is obviously a pretty high bar but if you’re talking about like a total homeless shambling skexie in like San Fran then, no. The U.S.A. in not particularly kind to you. It is not an abuse so much as it is a sad relatively minor consequence of our optimism and industriousness.   What you consider rich changes with circumstances obviously. If you are genuinely poor in the U.S.A., you experience a quirky hodgepodge of unhelpful and/or abstract extreme lavishnesses while also being alienated from your social support network. It’s about the same as being a refugee. For a fraction of the ‘kindness’ available to you in non bio-available form, you could have simply stayed closer to your people and been MUCH better off.   It’s just a quirk of how we run the place and our values; we are more worried about interfering with people’s liberty and natural inclination to do for themselves than we are about no bums left behind. It is a slightly hurtful position and we know it; we are just scared to death of socialism cancer and we’re willing to put our money where our mouth is.   So, if you’re a bum; you got 5G, the ER will spend like $1,000,000 on you over a hangnail but then kick you out as soon as you’re “stabilized”, the logistics are surpremely efficient, you have total unchecked freedom of speech, real-estate, motels, and jobs are all natural healthy markets in perfect competition, you got compulsory three ‘R’’s, your military owns the sky, sea, space, night, information-space, and has the best hairdos, you can fill out paper and get all the stuff up to and including a Ph.D. Pretty much everything a very generous, eager, flawless go-getter with five minutes to spare would think you might need.   It’s worse. Our whole society is competitive and we do NOT value or make any kumbaya exception. The last kumbaya types we had werr the Shakers and they literally went extinct. Pueblo peoples are still around but they kind of don’t count since they were here before us. So basically, if you’re poor in the U.S.A., you are automatically a loser and a deadbeat too. You will be treated as such by anybody not specifically either paid to deal with you or shysters selling bejesus, Amway, and drugs. Plus, it ain’t safe out there. Not everybody uses muhfreedoms to lift their truck, people be thugging and bums are very vulnerable here. The history of a large mobile workforce means nobody has a village to go home to. Source: https://askdaddy.quora.com/Are-the-poor-people-in-the-United-States-the-richest-poor-people-in-the-world-6   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.